Hillary Clinton Joins Joe Lieberman to Resurrect the Culture Wars

[EV_Ares]

I guess this must be one for those of us who spent the 90s wanting to throw large objects through the television set as we watched that sanctimonious, finger wagging, judgmental scold Joe Lieberman on the floor of the Senate joining with the Republicans to derail the constitution over Bill Clinton's zipper:

Senators Joe Lieberman (ID-CT), Sam Brownback (R-KS), Evan Bayh (D-IN), and Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) called for a thorough review of the video game ratings process in the wake of "Manhunt 2" receiving a "Mature" rating. In a letter to the Entertainment Software Ratings Board (ESRB), the Senators detailed how the change in rating opened the door to widespread release of the game, which depicts acts of horrific violence.

One wonders at what point she will stop following Lieberman over the cliff.

Wired magazine:

I agree that the current ratings system and all its consequences needs to be seriously re-evaluated, but not in the sense that Clinton et al apparently do, which is that Manhunt 2 never should have been released.

The uncharitable amongst us might conclude that this is simply a cynical ploy on Clinton's part to pander to old people, upon whom her Iowa chances depend. I'm sure that's not the case. Which is why I'd like to resurrect a suggestion from last year that Clinton find her voice and condemn the violent religious intolerance expressed in the Left Behind video game.

entire article @ AlterNet link: http://www.alternet.org/stories/70798/

[MessiahRp]

1. The problem is not the ratings system, it is the parents that buy these games for their kids

My friend worked at Gamestop and said he would always have to sell games to parents buying games like Grand Theft Auto: Vice City and San Andreas (in which you can have sex with a prostitute), for kids as young as 7 and 8 years old.

If the parents are there to buy them you can't say no and that's the problem with this whole deal. Parents aren't self-policing this issue and are letting kids play violent games. Even games like Halo that don't really have blood or gore have questionable language and a lot of violence.

It reflects on our culture to have kids coming up immune to any sympathy for their fellow man's pain and worse to be numb to violence and death. I mean why worry about endless wars anyway? I just played the Iraq War on my Xbox!

:sigh:

Rp

[BridgeTheGap]

2. I agree - it's the parents - same with education

But what do you do? Ban the games?
I'd also have to see studies that show a direct correlation between children's viewing/playing these games and the impact on them...do they really undermine a respect for life? I can't see that they're a good influence, but neither is junk food.

[Zodiak]

4. As far as I know

There is no connection between video games and violence.

But hey, the connection SOUNDS good, so why not make policy based on it?

[papau]

6. U of Chi said there may be partial connection between video games and violence - IA State said real

connection. Most of the "there is no connection proven" is based on the definition of "proven" (as noted in the U of C study http://culturalpolicy.uchicago.edu/conf2001/papers/goldstein.html - which concludes as you do that there is nothing "proven" as yet)), and the age of the group tested. There does seem to be some connection - IMO we are still researching the extent of the connection.

http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/~dgentile/Gentile_Lynch_Linder_Walsh_2004.pdf

[Zodiak]

9. From your article at the university of Chicago (is this published?)

"Reviews of video game research are as variable in their conclusions as the individual studies that comprise them. The same research is said to support different conclusions. For instance, Ask (1999), Funk (1993, 1995), Provenzo (1991), and Anderson & Bushman (2001) conclude that there is a causal connection between violent video games and aggressive behavior. Others think the data insufficient to support this connection (Cumberbatch, Maguire & Woods, 1993; Durkin, 1995; Griffiths, 1999; Wiegman, van Schie & Modde, 1997). Sacher (1993), reviewing mostly German research, found 5 experiments and 2 correlational studies linking violent video games to aggressive behavior, and 12 experiments and 7 correlational studies finding no such linkage."

Looks like the research is all over the place, so no, nothing has been proven. One study constitutes nothing, unfortunately, and it takes the preponderance of the literature to indicate a causal relationship. The preponderance of the literature as cited in this article seems to point in the opposite direction.

It's a LONG way from being the basis for public policy, but there is Clinton and Leiberman running with it anyways. That was my original point.

The other article found a fairly weak comparison that loses it's statistical significance in the last two figures. Even that article states that their study does NOT address causality....only correlation, and the correlation is weak.

[papau]

19. I agree - but the point was that there are studies with correlation - it is not "made of

whole cloth".

I do not know if the U of C study has been published (while a sophomore in HS - long, long ago - I took my first Atomic physics and analytical calculus courses at the U of C - so I have a fondness for anything they produce - and liked their well written survey of the literature).

[LynneSin]

12. But there are parents who use the rating system

I've never had a problem with a rating system. I really do believe parents should have a clue what they are buying for their kids. My only concern is when the rating system is use to ban certain products from sale

[MonkeyFunk]

3. The sub-head of that article

says they want to censor videogames. That's not true.

Ratings aren't censorship.

[TommyO]

5. But government forced ratings would effectively limit distribution of the games

thus censoring them.

[wyldwolf]

11. so do laws that prohibit selling alcohol, tobacco, and porn to minors

[Drunken Irishman]

15. Exactly. The game Manhunt was banned from a few stores in the country.

That IS censorship. I remember in the 1990s many American stores banned the game Carmageddon, which is tame compared to what we see now. If parents did their job, this wouldn't be an issue, but it is. Parents don't need a rating system to tell them a game is bad. If they can't get that from the title, or the cover art and back cover, they're not really paying attention. I mean, does it really take a rating system to inform the parent GRAND THEFT Auto is a Mature game?

[madrchsod]

7. the " nanny state"

i thought parents should have control over what their kids do....silly me i guess i should have let the state do that for me.
by the way how did that tipper gore thing work out? oh yes there`s an age appropriate label.

[Robbins]

8. My Problem

I believe the government should be staying out of what we watch on Tv,What Video Games are played,
What we read,what we do Online,and what we do In the bedroom.I bash Democrats as well as Republicans on this.Now I personally have always subscibed to the theory If people are at home with Video games and TV they can't commit Violet acts on the streets.

[LynneSin]

14. The rating system is not a tracking system for the government

Why should the parents have an easy system for determining what their kids are watching or listening to? I do not believe in censureship in the point of stores not providing certain material but there are parents that use this system.

Why should parents find out AFTERWARDS what their kids are doing. And the rating system does not stop a child from playing the game or allowing the parent to buy the game for their kids. There are plenty of parents out there that don't follow up on these games & tv shows. A simple rating will help them determine which ones are age appropriate for the kids that they have.

[wyldwolf]

10. And Barack Obama AGREES! Woo hoo!

Question: To date, nearly 10 states have considered legislation to keep violent video games out of kids’ hands. Would you support this type of legislation at the federal level? What other strategies would you support to keep the video game industry and other media companies from marketing and selling inappropriate content to children?

Obama: …I would call upon the video game industry to give parents better information about programs and video games by improving the voluntary rating system we currently have. Broadcasters and video game producers should take it upon themselves to improve this system to include easier to find and easier to understand descriptions of exactly what kind of content is included. But if the industry fails to act, then my administration would.

And even if the industry does do some responsible self-policing, there’s still a role for the federal government to play. We need to understand the impact of these new media better. That’s why I supported federal funding to study the impact of video games on children’s cognitive development.

http://www.thetanooki.com/2007/12/14/obama-speaks-on-video-game-censorship

[Forkboy]

16. So now they're both wrong. How inspirational they are!

I love when Hillary supporters and Obama supporters unintentionally point out to the rest of us how similar and sucky they both are. I'll never get how they think that line of defense really helps their own candidate though, but carry on.

[Drunken Irishman]

17. Not entirely.

It seems like Clinton and Lieberman are proposing an entirely different rating system, which would fringe on censorship, since many businesses do not want to carry games rated ABOVE mature. Unless you have a quote from Obama discussing a complete overhaul of the rating system, then I don't think it's fair to compare the two.

The rating system is fine, however, Clinton and Lieberman endorse the idea of rating games like Manhunt at a different level than just Mature. Which, if they get their way, will make it scarce to find, since many businesses do not sell games that are rated higher than Mature (just like many of these businesses don't sell adult movies). In my mind, that takes us down the path of censorship. What I've gathered, though, from your link, Obama just feels the rating system needs to be implemented, rather than changed.

[Solon]

18. You do understand that everytime that legislation is passed, its ruled unconstitutional, right?

I believe Louisiana passed it last year, and it was ruled unconstitutional before the ink became dry. Here's a link:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061129-8320.html

Usually such laws are ruled Unconstitutional, or struck down for other reasons. Judges have a problem when laws target one medium when it could apply to others, for example movies, music, books, and TV. The fact is that none of these have laws that legally require them to have ratings, or to restrict the sale of them to minors. Not to mention the First Amendment issues.

[JTFrog]

13. The problem is priorities.

These folks are working together to protect my kids from video game violence while at the same time they want to protect them from real violence by sending them to Iraq and Iran.