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Hawaii Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 03:15 PM
Original message
Maybe John Edwards is the best chance?
I was reading this post (part is attached below) from the NYT blog, and the poster makes sense..I mean, think about it, the last 2 Democratic presidents (Carter, Clinton) were southerners (good ole boys)....Look at the great shape Clinton left the country in 2000, and because of Monica-gate, Gore couldn't win states that Clinton won (OH, MO, TN, NH, AK, WV, etc.) since it pist off the more conservative Democrats and independents...Imagine if a Democrat did what Bush has done to this country, the next Democrat to run would probably lose like Mondale did in 1984...For some reason(s), Republicans have carte blance to fuck things up on a grand scale & are certainly not held accountable for anything....



"Some of my fellow secularists on this board simply do not see that America is headed for a theocracy. Do you think that somehow, somewhere down the road, the evangelicals are going to want to compromise? You just don’t get it, do you? The evangelicals DO NOT want to compromise. They comprise 46% of the population and they have no problems with throwing their political weight around. They see nothing wrong with requiring Americans to register with a government-approved church in their neighborhood. They see nothing wrong with monitoring everyone’s computer. They see nothing wrong with forcing all citizens to undergo random drug tests. Yes, the whole evangelical movement and the police state pro-corporate Republicans have a LOT of things in common.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/

This is the reason that liberals hardly win in a landslide. It seems like it always has to be by a thin margin that the watered-down Democrat wins. Why does it always have to be a “good ol’ boy Southern Baptist” like Carter and Clinton before a Democrat can win? If John Edwards, a Southern Baptist with a southern accent, is not nominated, the Democrats have ZERO chance of winning".

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. No wonder Clinton and Obama have been pandering to evangelicals...
When you put it like that, it makes more sense.

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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. The media has chosen Romney for the Pubs and Clinton/Obama
for the Dems. They definitely don't want Edwards in the mix.
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notanotherday Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. yes, Edwards would be a easy win in 2008 because he is not Clinton, or Obama.

The media is trying its damn hardest to shove Clinon/Obama down everyones throats.

And, yes, the Republicans screw up thing badly and get away with it because the corporate media is their lap dog.

But, we also have the DINO-DLC Democrats that are republican lite too.
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Brother_1969 Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yeah, well ...
The last time this guy ran in a presidential contest, he lost

Twice

He's a loser and he's not going to win this time either.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Twice?
As VP - it wasn't his to lose.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. If evangelicals actually comprise 46% of the population...
...this country really has gone to hell in a handbasket!
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Hawaii Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yeah, I'm hoping that poster got that wrong, cuz if that's true
46% of the country is evangelical is a sad & scary thought, :banghead: :banghead:
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Not necessarily...
Not all Evangelicals are conservatives. A survey by the Pew Charitable Trust in 2005, for example, showed that 27% of all Evangelicals support the Democratic party (17% Independent and 56% Republican). Among the Modernist Evangelicals (which would describe Christian DUers), 44% are Democrats, with 24% Independent and 32% Republican.

And that was data from two years ago. All indications are that the Republican Party is experiencing a major erosion of support among Evangelical voters. For a Democratic candidate to appeal to the "Sermon On The Mount" crowd is not necessarily a bad thing.
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Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. I've been saying all along that Edwards has the best chance of winning...
Now that he has the backing of Harry Belafonte, he has the ability to attract even more voters.
Hillary has more negatives daily.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. So I should vote for John Edwards cause
Edited on Fri Dec-07-07 04:23 PM by FrenchieCat
he's white, a male, from the south and a Baptist...and Harry Bellafonte has endorsed him? :wow:

Me, I'd rather vote for the Black man or the Woman. White men is why we are where we are.....and I'm ready to take a chance at change.

I'm tired of this conventional wisdom bullshit that is being touted that John Edwards is most electable simply because of where he was born, the color of his skin and his gender. If John Edwards hadn't apologized for every single thing he had supported in the past, you might have a point, and he might have a chance...but from where I see it, the GOP will make mincemeat out of him, and they won't even have to be "careful" on how they do it, either. He will be depicted as a prima donna, weak, effeminated light weight that has gone from one extreme (co-sponsoring the IWR, china trade vote, bankrupcty vote, yucca mountain vote, not supporting universal health care) to the other (against Iraq, against most trade bills, against bankruptcy laws, against Yucca mountain depository, for Universal health care) all in the space of one losing election and this one.

It is my belief that running a Black Man or a woman actually increases our chances of winning the White House. Those minorities and single young women and the youth (large democratic potential voters who tend not to vote in large numbers) will come out in drove and prove your old ass CW totally wrong.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Don't forget threatening Iran - AFTER the make-over as "anti-war" candidate
Even George Bush didn't pay for other abortions after being "born again"!
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Good read-

Edwards 08
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. Earth to hawaii Hiker: Gore won the election. Kerry too (pass it on)
I won't even touch the rest of strategery as my head would explode.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Yes, and know this...John Edwards is a Loser!
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Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. But, you offer no reason why you think that.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Here are several reasons:
(notations from Chris Dodd):

Edwards helping to Bankrupt Americans..

which makes the middle class highly susceptible to Poverty. (the centerpiece of his platform)

Remember who Co-Sponsored the Iraq Vote?.. John Edwards in case you've forgotten..

and promoted the Iraq War for two years on the White House website? John "kiss ass" Edwards

* Edwards supported a bankruptcy bill that was vetoed by President Clinton. In 2000 John Edwards voted for the Bankruptcy Overhaul bill. While this bill included a slight increase of the minimum wage, its major design was to revise bankruptcy laws to make it easier for courts to force debtors to repay their debts, while before the law had allowed debtors to discharge their debt. 12 Democrats and 2 Republicans rejected this bill, including Chris Dodd, Ted Kennedy, Paul Wellstone, and Tom Harkin. President Clinton eventually vetoed this bill because it was too hard on debtors.

* Edwards voted for the same bill in 2001, again choosing financial interests over working families. In 2001 Edwards voted for a similar Bankruptcy Overhaul bill that again required Americans facing bankruptcy to undergo debt repayments instead of debt relief. Specifically, the bill required debtors able to pay $10,000 or 25% of their debts over five years to file under Chapter 13, which requires a reorganization of debts under a repayment plan, instead of seeking to discharge their debts under Chapter 7. Edwards voted with nearly the entire Republican caucus in supporting this bill, as well as voting to end debate on the measure. Chris Dodd voted to reject this bill, joining Senators Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kennedy, Kerry, and Wellstone. In all, the bill was rejected by 13 Democrats and 2 Republicans.

* Edwards would not allow relief for people who were forced into bankruptcy from medical bills. Edwards also sided with the entire GOP caucus to vote against the Wellstone amendment to the 2001 bill. This amendment would have provided an exemption for debtors who were forced to file for bankruptcy due to medical expenses, under the rationale that health expenses are often unpreventable and can be an especially debilitating cost to low and middle income families. Chris Dodd was one of the 34 Democrats who voted for this amendment?a group that included Senators Clinton, Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kennedy, Kerry and Wellstone.

* Edwards rejected a means test amendment that would have protected debtors from sudden financial misfortune. On the same bill, Edwards again voted with the entire GOP caucus to reject an amendment that would have included a more consumer friendly means test than that included in the original bill. The amended means test would have used the average of a debtor's last two months of income to determine their ability to pay a certain threshold amount of debt, instead of the last six months of income. The amended means test was designed to protect debtors who face financial difficulties from sudden job loss or disability. Paul Wellstone, who authored the amendment, said the original test "will make it impossible for families to rebuild their lives." 22 Democrats supported this amendment, including Chris Dodd. Dodd was accompanied by Senators Clinton, Durbin, Feingold, and Kennedy.

* Edwards supported the final version of the Bankruptcy bill that "punishes the vulnerable." Months later, Edwards again voted for the similar version of the Bankruptcy bill that emerged from negotiations with the House of Representatives. He also voted to limit debate twice on the bill, stifling further amendments or arguments. This version was not substantively different from the earlier versions, as it still made it significantly harder for working Americans to discharge their debts through the bankruptcy system. Chris Dodd rejected this bill, along with Senators Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kennedy, Kerry and Wellstone. 14 Democrats and 2 Republicans voted against the final measure.

The bill Edwards supported "punishes the vulnerable and it rewards the big banks and credit card companies for their poor practices," said Sen. Paul Wellstone, D-Minn., a leading opponent of the legislation. "We are heading into hard economic times and we're going to make it hard for people to rebuild their lives."

Edwards has been part and parcel of the GOP agenda all the way. Edwards voting record is one of the worst of our Dem Senators. Edwards is helping create poverty in the middle class with his bankruptcy vote and earning millions for himself when working for the Hedge Fund sector. The same Hedge Fund sector that was buying sub-prime mortgages for their investment portfolios.. The same "POVERTY" he now professes to help as the centerpiece of his presidential campaign. It must be hard for Edward's supporters to understand the meaning of the words "poverty" and "hypocrisy", when their candidate, John Edwards exemplifies it so well.

Why shouldn't he, he voted for it!

Ironically, the centerpiece of his campaign these days, revolves around the damage he's done through his Senate vote.


Also courtesy of seasonedblue's research:

That would open up questions about the bundled money that Edwards has taken, the fact that the biggest contributers to his campaign came from hedge fund employees and trial attorneys:

"Mr. Edwards also developed mutually beneficial relationships with public and private institutions. He founded the Center on Poverty, Work and Opportunity at the University of North Carolina, which provided him with a platform. In return, he raised $3 million to sustain it. He was hired by the Fortress Investment Group, a New York hedge fund, to “develop investment opportunities,” according to a 2005 Fortress news release. That led to meetings with such people as Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany; Henry Kravis, founder of KKR, one of Wall Street’s most successful investment funds; and the chief executives of General Electric, Citigroup, Coca-Cola and DaimlerChrysler."

“Fortress became a vehicle for foreign travel,” Mr. Turlington said, “but it was also a way to spend more time with sophisticated financial people.”

The Edwards campaign declined to disclose the amounts raised or spent by the two similarly-named nonprofit agencies — the Center for Promise and Opportunity and the Center for Promise and Opportunity Foundation — since their 2005 tax filings, which are the most recent to have been filed.

snip:

...the line between a bona fide charity and a political campaign is often fuzzy, said Marcus S. Owens, a Washington lawyer who headed the Internal Revenue Service division that oversees nonprofit agencies.

“I can’t say that what Mr. Edwards did was wrong,” Mr. Owens said. “But he was working right up to the line. Who knows whether he stepped or stumbled over it. But he was close enough that if a wind was blowing hard, he’d fall over it.”

snip:

Of the explicitly political entities, Mr. Edwards’ OneAmerica Committee 527 organization allowed donors to give without limitations. The money was transferred to his leadership political action committee. Leadership committees were initially created to allow prominent politicians to raise money for distribution to needy office-seekers. But Mr. Edwards spent the entire $2.7 million he raised for OneAmerica, including $532,000 raised by the 527, on himself, an increasingly common trend among politicians.

The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/us/politics/22edwards.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

As far as his generalized anti-lobby stance:

EDWARDS: Some Lobbyists Are Just More Equal Than Others


Still reporting from SEIU's conference, TAPPED's Garance Franke-Ruta was amused to hear John Edwards 'jazzing up' conventioners for the SEIU's 'Lobby Day'. Franke-Ruta blogs: "John Edwards has made it very clear that he thinks lobbyists are the bane of the American political system, and will prevent needed healthcare reform. ...The SEIU has worked with: Bond & Co.; Clark & Weinstock; Colling Murphy Swift Hynes Selfridge LLC; Robert Giroux; Jennings Policy Strategies; the Nueva Vista Group; Bill Lynch Associates; and Tighe Patton Armstrong Teasdale. ... I seriously doubt that the Edwards campaign has a problem with any of this SEIU activity, either, despite his anti-lobbying stance."

http://blogometer.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/09/919_why_the_tas.html

No one's squeaky clean in this election, and Edwards talks from both sides of his mouth.


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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. Moe Udall and Jimmy Carter
Udall had been a leading liberal leader and competitor for House leadership. he was even more clearly the one, albeit self-deprecating and gentlemanly, to advance the liberal progressive leadership of the party.
As usual he got sideswiped for exactly that.

The go along, Southern strategy folk who conveniently ignored the Westerner appeal of Udall and ignore their own southern strategy candidate today, and dimmed the progressive bulbs for decades.

The same crap that happened to Carter(or Carter did if you want some liberal complaints about his policies) could happen all over again for the same reasons and under the auspices of an unnecessarily close election that fudges the revolutionary NEEDS of our times. I wonder about the "nice guy" Udall and now think we would have been much better off all around had we voted for him. There would have been no surrender and fudging of the "democratic wing" of our party. The weaknesses of Carter were precisely what OUR party leadership wanted.

Talk about disaster economics, this is disaster politics.

After surviving a rocky, compromised presidency perhaps the DLC choice will be honored and esteemed as Carter is today- at long long last- with reservations. But to go along this path AGAIN risks too much altogether- even defeat against a vicious, rigged GOP machine. It certainly sets back AGAIN any, any movement at all to get the party under the leadership of progressives who could LEAD and end disaster politics once and for all. You can love Hillary and rightly so and stoutly defend and work for her administration. You can buy her books twenty years from now as she receives the Nobel prize or something.

And the cost to the future, to the party will be agonizingly high- if not ultimately fatal.

To my brother who backed Udall while I voted for Carter in NY, in the terrible balance of things I think now I was wrong. It is not just a matter of TRYING the progressive road with Edwards or DK but of saving everyone from the mistakes of past which the GOP is more prepared than ever to write large in our future- if only to distract from their own black hole collapse. To top it off, like I said, the ELECT ABILITY argument that sent Carter over the top in places like NY is just the reverse now. Just the reverse and we are contemplating justifying the center right choice FOR WHAT? Just WHAT is automatically delivered that does not come with qualifiers and enormous price tags- and NO progressive championship to match world shattering crises ahead and crimes against humanity in our current legacy? Crimes in our very business economic identity?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. maybe. i am for him or Richardson
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. HRC and Obama might not be the most electable candidates Dems could put out there...
Hillary Clinton Might Be the Least Electable Democrat
by Guy T. Saperstein, AlterNet. Posted December 7, 2007

http://www.alternet.org/story/69916/
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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. Raised Baptist, but Methodist now.
Edwards is much closer to the official positions of the United Methodist Church than are other members such as Bush and Cheney!!! The UMC has pointedly called out the latter for their near-total disregard of the fundamental tenents of Methodism and of the teachings of Christ.

The UMC is officially anti-war (and has officially called for immediate withdrawl of troops from Iraq), has strong positions on most social issues (its position on homosexuality is evolving way too slowly for me -- lots of tolerance language has been added, but the older "it is wrong" language has not been removed)), and UMC is generally one of the more liberal/progressive denominations.

The UMC Social Creed and Social Principles might surprise many. For example, this is the current statement on War and Peace:

We believe war is incompatible with the teachings and example of Christ. We therefore reject war as
an instrument of national foreign policy, to be employed only as a last resort in the prevention of
such evils as genocide, brutal suppression of human rights, and unprovoked international aggression.
We insist that the first moral duty of all nations is to resolve by peaceful means every dispute that
arises between or among them; that human values must outweigh military claims as governments
determine their priorities; that the militarization of society must be challenged and stopped; that
the manufacture, sale, and deployment of armaments must be reduced and controlled; and that the
production, possession, or use of nuclear weapons be condemned. Consequently, we endorse general and
complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.



Other sections specifically support civil rights, collective bargaining, responsible consumption, ...


None of this effects significantly Edwards's ability to connect with voters.

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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. maybe?
It is a certainty IMHO.
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