You don't see Obama campaign staff circulating wingnut emails about Hillary murdering Vince Foster.

[TheWraith]

I don't see why this case should be ignored just because it was "only" a mid-level campaign official, or because they asked politely for the person to leave voluntarily two weeks after they found out about it. Particularly when they haven't issued an apology or retraction on the person's behalf.

If things were reversed, and an Obama campaign official had been caught circulating right-wing nutcase emails about Hillary being a lesbian and murdering Vince Foster, do you think that it would be "no big deal," and okay if they ignored it for awhile before taking even marginal action?

[SaveElmer]

1. WHat happened to the Obama staffer who authored the "Democrat from Punjab" memo?

eom

[BeyondGeography]

3. He was assassinated by Draft_Mario_Cuomo

[rinsd]

20. !!!

:rofl:

[BeyondGeography]

23. I knew someone would get it

[TeamJordan23]

33. What happened to Draft_Mario_Cuomo? nm

[TheWraith]

7. Fired, and apologized for, for a much more minor infraction.

A joke in bad taste versus extremely racist propaganda.

[rinsd]

21. Ummm that was memo sent out to the press for them to write stories.

[TheWraith]

50. Are you under the misaprehension that what you just said made any sense? NT

[rinsd]

54. You called a memo (the Punjab one) that was sent out to the press by the campaign a bad joke.

[maximusveritas]

32. You're seriously comparing that

to this e-mail full of hateful lies about Obama?

[TheWraith]

52. Of course they are. They don't have any legitimate defense.

And they seem to be incapable of admitting that this shouldn't have happened, or that the Clinton camp should have fired this person immediately, instead of waiting until they got caught.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

2. Yeah!

I mean, No!

[cali]

4. OK, no it shouldn't be ignored but it shouldn't be twisted either.

The sender wasn't a mid-level campaign official- she was a volunteer coordinator. Does that make a difference? Of course. She was not staff. And from what I've read, they did not know the identity of this person two weeks ago. Clinton should issue an apology to Obama. And she should make damn sure that this sort of thing will not be countenced on the part of any staffer or volunteer.

[jefferson_dem]

5. But it was her campaign that expressed *outrage* over uncorroborated reports of

overly-argumentative Obama phone bankers.

We'll see how where the outrage is here. Does she hold her own campaign to a much lower standard, even when the charge is much more odious?

[TheWraith]

6. An Iowa county coordinator, which is emphatically NOT a low-level position.

Also a member of Clinton's Iowa Women's Leadership Council.

[cali]

13. There are 250 people on that council for crap's sake

and if you don't know that volunteers often get lofty sounding names in political campaigns, you don't know much about them. Hell, I've had a lofty sounding title as a volunteer on a campaign and I really wasn't terribly important, alas. She was a VOLUNTEER and not a paid staffer. Yes, there's a difference.

[TheWraith]

15. So she wasn't paid. She was a high-ranking volunteer, and they knew she was spreading this stuff.

Just because you're not paying the person who works for your campaign means that you magically don't have any influence over them? And an Iowa county coordinator is still a pretty high position.

[cuke]

39. "high-ranking volunteer" sounds like an "enourmous ant"

Very oxymoranish

[TheWraith]

49. You think that an Iowa county chair is a low-ranking position?

Then you either don't know Iowa politics, or you're deliberately spinning.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

53. She was a county chair

Its not like this was just someone off the street handing out buttons...

Should have been let go on minute one and the campaign should have apologized immediately..

Unfortunately with Hillary *everything* has to be politically calculated for maximum effect..

Iraq Vote
Iran Vote
Drivers Licenses for Illegals
...

[Skip Intro]

8. I saw Obama use a wingnut article repeating second hand rumor to attack Hillary.

[TheWraith]

9. Could you rub a little more vague unsubstantiation on that? NT

[Skip Intro]

10. er...maybe just one word would help? novak?

did that do it?

[TheWraith]

12. So you think Dems shouldn't call out smear attacks? You like the Kerry solution of wait and see?

If somebody starts a whisper campaign on you, you should ignore it?

[Skip Intro]

16. I stand by my statement. Novak punked Obama into attacking Hillary. Could there be a clearer case of

using rw talking points to bash a Democratic candidate?

[TheWraith]

17. Then you're buying a falsehood to excuse your candidate for something much worse. NT

[cuke]

40. Obama has no problem using rightwing memes

Obama says there is a "SS crisis", that most kids don't believe that SS will be around when they retire, that mandates are bad because they FORCE people to buy insurance when they don't want to, that Hillary has been planning to run for president for many years, and then there is all his Jesus-talk

[MNDemNY]

25. Sure, provided they "call out" the right person.

[Catherine Vincent]

11. They let the guy go. What else do you want to happen?

Would you rather CNN or MSNBC report about it for the next 10 days so that Obama's poll numbers would soar and Hillary's take a dive? That's what you want, isn't it?

[TheWraith]

14. They only asked her to step down voluntarily, and only after the story broke wide.

Multiple Clinton campaign staffers have known for at least two weeks that this person was spreading this email, and they did NOTHING about it.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

18. This post qualifies as "tempting fate"

[rinsd]

22. Seriously.

[Pirate Smile]

19. I wonder how many Hillary supporters (non- DU'ers) believe that crap. Check this out:

http://www.observer.com/2007/hillary-supporters-obama-being-muslim

I saw that link on Marc Ambinder's blog:

"Politico's Smith obtains anti-Obama e-mail sent by Clinton volunteer; Clinton staffer Ryan Callahan was cc'ed on the original e-mail. Some Nevada supporters of HRC have been similarly off-message;"

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/12/the_daily_five_check_out_what.php

[MNDemNY]

24. Yet.

[MGKrebs]

47. Yeah, everybody wants Clinton to LEAD on something, well,

there you go!

[creeksneakers2]

26. How do you know nobody on the Obama campaign did?

Yes. If an Obama volunteer forwarded a slander E-mail to 8 people it would not be important, especially if the person was fired for doing it.

I don't know how many of the nuts on the net are Obama volunteers, but I see them forwarding the most ridiculous crap imaginable,like this, all the time.

[MethuenProgressive]

27. One Clinton staffer was forwarded the email, and comdemned it.

Faux outrage.

[Evergreen Emerald]

28. Obama used the wingnut attack that Clinton has a sinister motive

for running based on the fact that she has been planning to run for years--that is straight from FoxNews.

Obama used the right-wing lie about Social Security to state that Clinton was wrong on Social Security.

[earthlover]

29. No, raising the cap on Social Security is NOT a tax on the middle-class as Hillary purports

Obama is right. This only raises the taxes on the top 2% of the population!

I know that everyone considers themselves middle class....but this is ridiculous!

Social Security does need some tweeking. Nothing drastic, but some minor adjustments, to keep it solvent. Obama provides a progressive answer to it, by taxing the rich. Hillary's plan is to appoint another committee to study the problem.

Obama wins on this issue, hands down.

[Evergreen Emerald]

30. Obama said it was a major crisis that needs to be addressed he was wrong

That is a right-wing talking point designed to destroy the social services and privatize social security. He picked up that right-wing talking point and was ridiculing Clinton for not agreeing that it is in crisis.

[earthlover]

31. be real! Obama is opposed to privitization! Can you put up a quote or link?

Fact is, Obama would help Social security by raising the cap. This would only affect the top 2% of incomes. Hillary says she will appoint a committee to study the matter.


what is INCREDIBLE is Hillary attacks taxing the top 2% as a tax on the "middle class". HUH? Since when did the top 2% become the middle class?

Obviously, Hillary is hoping nobody will notice what she actually said!

[Evergreen Emerald]

37. That is not the point. Perhaps I have not been clear:

Social Security is not in crisis. Obama says it is--and that is a rightwing talking point that he has picked up.

The basis for suggesting that it is in crisis is because Bush etal want to destroy the program and privatize.

Obama picked up the rightwing talking point--not to privitize, but because he is inexperienced. And then when Clinton spoke the truth: that it is NOT IN CRISIS and just needs fixing that can be done by fiscal responsibility--Obama twisted that statement.

Clinton is right--Obama is way way wrong on this.


The middle class comment: this has been vetted so much, and you continue to ignore it. Clinton said that she is representing the whole country. And that in NY where the cost of living is so high, middle class has higher income. (She is senator from NY). She stated that firefighters make that and are middle class in NY. So, this is not so black and white as you make it seem. And Obama's distortions are really lies. It is a shame that people cannot look past the superficial BS to the real issues.

[earthlover]

58. She is running for president of all the US, not New York!

It really doesn't matter what the average income of New York is! She was criticising Obama's raising the social security tax on the top 2% of AMERICANS. She called it a tax on the middle class. Maybe she hoped nobody would be paying attention. But you, on the other hand, have taken it hook, line and sinker!

Sorry, but raising the cap is a progressive way to deal with the social security shortfalls that Hillary thinks important enough to appoint a committee to study a solution for. The committee would, in all likelihood, come up with a solution that would hurt the average Joe/Jane more than Obama's plan. Especially since raising the cap doesn't add a penny of tax for those making less than the top 2%.

You go back to that old saw that Obama is inexperienced. Well, if clinton is so experienced why can't she come up with a plan that is progressive without having to let a committee do the work? Obama's is the better plan, taking a system that has gradually gotten less progressive and made it more progressive.

Hillary is sure experienced at standing up for the rich and the corporations. Gotta give her credit for that! But that is the wrong kind of experience.

If your driver drives a car off the road and into a ditch, is he the best one to drive it out? Sometimes experience is not as important as the direction you are headed.

[TeamJordan23]

34. I'm an Obama supporter, but I don't believe Hillary deserves any blame for this. nm

[ClarkUSA]

35. Thanks for the damned good OP, The Wraith.

Hillaryworlders are so quick to excuse, deny, and minimize what they would crucify if the Obama campaign had done something similar -- which would never
happen since only a sleezy Clintonian would do something that evil to a fellow Democrat and think it was all in good "fun" (just like Hillary taught them).

[rodeodance]

36. no one is ignoring it. It was an AP story and he was fired.

[TheWraith]

51. It was a she, and she was NOT fired.

They ignored it for two weeks, until they got caught, and THEN they asked her to step down voluntarily.

[AtomicKitten]

38. the coinkidinks are piling up

All the ugly sh*t coming out of the Dem side of the aisle seems to be emanating from the Clinton campaign. They deny everything. It isn't possible that every single incident is a coincidence.

[cuke]

41. I guess sponsoring a tour of homophobes was not "ugly shit"

And the racist "Senator from Punjab" memo is considered a "beautiful thing", right?

[AtomicKitten]

42. yes, a policy that promotes war and trying to hamstring opponents with gutter politics is ugly

And you can keep hammering away at ONE incident, ONE evening you disapprove of involving Barack, balanced against a lifetime of consistently supporting LGBT issues (and a good rating by the community as well) VERSUS a presidential candidate whose POLICY advocates war (and lies about it), signing on to TWO GOP-based war schemes .... yes, I'd say your priorities could use some realignment.

Best of luck continue to peddle that line of thought.

[cuke]

43. What about the racist "Punjab" memo?

I noticed you had nothing to say about that?

[AtomicKitten]

44. More shiny objects to distract from the elephant in the room?

Keep railing against minutia hoping John Q. Public will pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[cuke]

45. Another Obama supporter who can't defend Obama's racist memo

[AtomicKitten]

46. deflect -- move the goal posts -- change the subject

That isn't working anymore.

[cuke]

48. Let's see you defend Obama's racist memo

All you've got is your hate filled attacks, Obama lies, and the only response from Obamaniacs is to attack, attack, attack

[Cameron27]

55. This is so off base,

but it's clear that you're intent on making more of this than what the facts state. Here's what Chase Martyn, someone who doesn't remotely love Clinton, has to say:

I will take the unusual step of defending the Clinton campaign for a second. ... ...

This whole type of spat has happened before in this campaign cycle. It is not at all unprecedented. Over the summer on the Republican side, and of course the Republicans are always way ahead on these email campaigns than the Democrats are, a Brownback county chair was actually given a volunteer position even higher than county chair, she was like a regional chair or something got caught sending out some pretty nasty emails on Romney, and the Brownback campaign was forced to repudiate her. ... ...

At a certain point, once an organization gets so big, all these field organizations face intense pressure to put names down for country coordinators in each of the counties they're in charge of and at a certain point when you're getting close to a deadline, and I've been there myself to pick these county chairs, you pick somebody, you don't have a ton of time to vet them and you put their name down as your county coordinator so that the campaign can send out a press release saying we have country coordinators in this many counties. It's not something that the campaigns will take seriously at the level of county chairs.

It's an honorary position that in some counties is important and in other counties the organizers don't really do anything with the county chair and it's just a title in name only. It really isn't, I don't think you could make the case that this email forwarding had anything, at least that the Clinton campaign told the person to do it or that this person was even in regular contact with the Clinton campaign more than say once a week. It's possible that they are, but this probably just a rogue agent, who may or may not even thought about it when this person forwarded around this email.

It's not something that I think you can blame the campaign for too much. You can blame some of the campaign supporters for it, but the campaign probably officially had absolutely nothing to do with it and no knowledge of it ahead of time. ... ...
The country coordinator position is not a major position that is much power, really, outside of being a name on a press release and potentially calling some other contact in a particular county to recruit more supporters. ....

(TM asks if David Yepsen will write about it.) ... ..Yepsen might write about it. I hope he doesn't try to blow it out of proportion, although he has a tendency to blow strange things out of proportion all the time. .. ... ...

Obama has been the subject of a lot of different types of emails. But I should also say though that on a daily basis I get far worse emails accusing Hillary Clinton of things than anything... .. ... but the things I get told about Hillary Clinton on a daily basis are just so much worse.

http://www.taylormarsh.com/

[hughee99]

56. One interesting think I noticed...

While the Clinton camp has denounced this mid-level staffer, Clinton supporters seem content in the explanation that this was one person, acting on their own, and not some coordinated strategy. Honestly, I think this is probably the case, too. I don't see some grand conspiracy here.

BUT...

Just the other day, the Clinton campaign was sending out emails about Obama's dirty tricks, specifically about calling voters and engaging in negative attacks. The evidence they present?

"The woman said that the call had come from a New Hampshire number, though she said she didn't make a record of it or remember it. Asked if she was certain that she'd heard the caller identify himself as from the Obama campaign, she said, "I couldn't say 100 percent," but added she recalled clearly that he had identified himself this way "immediately" during the call."

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/12/dirty_tricks.php

So one person claims to have received such a call, can't even remember for sure if the caller said they were from the Obama campaign, let alone have any knowledge that the person was actually from the Obama campaign, and yet this is presented as evidence of Obama's dirty tricks.

I guess they don't hold themselves to as high a standard as they do the Obama camp.

[Cameron27]

57. And worse,

Obama uses Bob Novak, RW sociopath to smear Clinton with no evidence.