There are NO Democratic senators who vote with the Republicans most of the time. NONE.

[LoZoccolo]

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/party-voters

No more whiny bullshit, please. Thank you. You can kindly shut the fuck up now.

[onehandle]

1. Facts? You're giving us facts?

I only trust rants I read on some forum on the Internets.

[Basileus Basileon]

2. Thank you. Spread it. Know it. Love it.

The more people that can post this, the better.

The worst Democrat is Ben Nelson, who votes with us 79.6% of the time. And there are ten Republicans who are bigger -INOs than he is.

[robinlynne]

5. But it is not true.

[Basileus Basileon]

6. Thank you for that informative rebuttal to an ongoing statistical analysis. nt

[robinlynne]

9. really important vote tomorrow. on mukasey. in committe, where it counts.

all republicans are voting yes. all dems are voting no. But Schumer and Feinstein are voting with the republicans. who will now win by one vote.
again.

look at the committees, where it counts. Votes that should enver see the floor are getting through over and over again by one democratic vote, sometimes two.

[Basileus Basileon]

14. I love the funny game we play where

the 15% of the time the Republicans get their way, we retroactively call those "the important issues," and on the issues where the Republicans try to band together but still lose, well--those aren't "where it counts."

[robinlynne]

18. what big wins have the dems had this year 2007?

only one. minimum wage.
Every right wing pervert Bush submitted to the judiciary has received a lifetime appointment. Isn't that voting with the republicans?

Every penny Bush asked for he has received, often even more. Isn't that voting with the Republicans? Or are you counting these as voting with the Dem's because Harry Reid was in favor?

Every Dem proposed law to limit war has lost. Every single one. one Iraq and Iran. every one.
But they are counted as dem wins in your statistics.

[Basileus Basileon]

45. So you're now blaming the Democrats

for Republican vetoes and filibusters? That's really a stretch.

Plus, in addition to the astounding victory in the minimum-wage hike, you're ignoring the ethics reforms (which everyone thought were absolutely huge when the Republicans were blocking them), the recommendations of the Sept. 11th panel (which everyone thought were absolutely huge when the Republicans were blocking them), expanding student loans, and increasing veterans' benefits. That's more than most years get accomplished.

[robinlynne]

51. No, I'm blaming those specific democrats who vote with republicans, and especially, in

committee, who let their bills through.
it isn't "the democrats". It is the rightwing democrats who vote with republcians. the OP says this is not happening. since we ahve the amjority, and their bills are passing, it is obviously happening.

[Basileus Basileon]

53. You are aware, then, that it requires 60 votes to break a filibuster?

And that it requires a supermajority in both houses to overcome a veto?

And that there is little point to passing legislation for which the votes do not exist to override the veto/filibuster the Republicans are using to obstruct? It's actually quite impressive what they've managed to do this year, especially considering that they have to overcome a filibuster-happy Senate and a veto-happy President to do it.

[robinlynne]

62. We decide which bills to bring up for a vote! That's what having a majority gives us.

We do not need to even vote on any of their bills. There is no reason for Mukasey to be getting out of committee. We have the majority. It is in our Democrats' hands. not the republicans. There is no reason for war funding to be voted on. That is under Pelosi's control. We hand the power over to the republicans. It is not theirs.

[Basileus Basileon]

64. Yes, we do. Unfortunately, we cannot by ourselves decide

which bills get passed into law; that must be a matter of consensus.

[robinlynne]

67. My point was the 60 votes to break a filibuster, which is what Pelosi always

uses as the reason the republicans are getting what they want is not the reason. She decides what gets voted on, so she has the power to not put things up for a vote. The 60 votes is nonsense. The war money did not have to be voted on. period. Let Bush get all huffy and puffy. Then when there is something important that the democrats want, she would have negotiating power. Instead she gives them whatever they ask for.
She can stop it. every penny. She has that power.

[Basileus Basileon]

68. The 60-votes has nothing to do with not cutting off funding for the war.

She doesn't do that because fewer than a quarter of Americans support that. Most Americans support a timetable for withdrawal, which was vetoed.

[robinlynne]

69. ok. That's not what I was saying. I was saying SHE has the power and hands it over.

but it's late, and I'm too tired to continue. I must say, however, that it is a pleasure to find someone with differing views than mine who is interested in having a conversation, as opposed to a screaming match. Let's continue another day?

[Basileus Basileon]

75. Another day, then. nt

[puebloknot]

66. The "hand waving" over passing a minimum wage law is pathetic.

Any reasonable society takes care of health care, education, minimum wage as a matter of course. We have a dying country because of spending all our resources on an illegal occupation in Iraq, and still there are Dems who defend our rogue Dem representatives by pointing out their "victory" with minimum wage.

And while America "burns," metaphorically speaking (and practically speaking, in some cases; to wit: California recently), Nancy Pelosi is still touting her accomplishments with her "First 100 hours," and still speaks with glazed eyes about how her victory in crashing through the "Marble Ceiling" has done so much for future generations of American women. She is delusional. She needs to go back to San Francisco, and tell these tall tales to her grandchildren. The country cannot afford her complicity in crime.

Give.me.a.fucking.break! Give.me.back.my.country! With Tagore, I cry: "Let my country awake."

[hfojvt]

78. Tagore?

You want India to awake too?

Just call tech support. The sound of the phone ringing will wake them up.

[robinlynne]

34. So far this year, the republicans only lost one vote. minimum wage. name another.

[LoZoccolo]

36. This one, from Friday.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll1033.xml

[robinlynne]

52. looks good. what does it do?

[LoZoccolo]

54. Who cares, you are wrong, don't say the Republicans only lost one vote ever again. n/t

[robinlynne]

63. What is it about. who cares? what do you mean who cares? we all care!

[LoZoccolo]

15. Numbers or STFU.

It stands for "see the facts understood", meaning that you should understand the facts I have given here. Really it does.

[robinlynne]

22. military spending: every single penny passed.

judicial appointments: every single one passed.
presidential decrees, and military decrees which took away american freedoms: every single one passed.
congressional subpoenas to republicans: every single one failed.
and watch tomorrow and tell me if mukasey gets in. The Republicans are all voting for him. The Dems are all voting against. But 2 dems are voting with the Republicans, so guess what happens? The Republicans win again.

ammendments to redeploy: every single one failed.

[LoZoccolo]

8. Thank you very much, go away. n/t

[robinlynne]

3. Dianne Feinstein, on every important vote this year, since the dems came to power.

and she breaks ties on committee, in favor of the republicans each time there is a dem/republican division.
i'm sure there are more. I know her record because unfortunatley, she is my senator.

[Capn Sunshine]

12. Feinstien's pro dem voting record:Another lie using statistics

There are hundreds- no , thousands of Votes. What we need here is an analysis of Vitally Important Votes, and which way they swung. I think the results might surprise everyone.

[Bitwit1234]

4. That appears to be true...You can go to the congressional website

and see.Now I wouldn't say that about the representatives I haven't checked them out.

[LoZoccolo]

7. Here are the numbers for the House of Representatives.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/house/party-voters

[MannyGoldstein]

10. But Many Vote Mostly Republican On The Big Issues

So functionally they're Republicans, when the total effect of their votes is measured.

[robinlynne]

13. exactly, when it is important. When the constitution is at stake.

[Basileus Basileon]

16. Nonsense. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

19. Insane War. Unconstitutional Warrantless Wiretapping.

Permanent "free" trade status for China. The "Patriot" Acts. The Bankruptcy Bill. Authorizing war against Iran. Legalizing Bush's violations of the Geneve Convemtions.

That's pretty much the big ones.

[robinlynne]

24. and every judicial appointment went through the congress, for lifetime appointments!

[MannyGoldstein]

28. Yup. Alito Was A Real Catch.

Marvelous.

[robinlynne]

11. Have you looked at the committee votes, where it really counts?

[LoZoccolo]

17. Go get them and come back.

We will listen to you then.

[ProSense]

20. That's selective criteria BS

This is Kerry voting against his party:

6/22/06 Vote 181: S 2766: Kerry Amdt. No. 4442; To require the redeployment of United States Armed Forces from Iraq in order to further a political solution in Iraq, encourage the people of Iraq to provide for their own security, and achieve victory in the war on terror.

Position Yes
GOP No
DEM No

This is Lincoln voting against her party:

10/3/07 Vote 362: H R 3222: Feingold Amdt. No. 3164; To safely redeploy United States troops from Iraq.

Position No
GOP No
DEM Yes

Check the difference in this vote by Lincoln:

10/24/07 Vote 392: On the Cloture Motion: Motion to Invoke Cloture on the Nomination of Leslie Southwick, of Mississippi, to be U.S. Circuit Judge

Position Yes
GOP Yes
Dem No

It's selective BS, that's why Blanche Lincoln is see as voting less against the Party than Feingold.

[LoZoccolo]

26. You select three votes, I give you all of them, and I'M the one that's selective?

To the true Democrats: can you see what these people will stoop to to spread lies?

[ProSense]

29. It was a sample. If you don't see the flaws in this kind of

selective sampling, which is what those statistics are based on, then you're being willfully ignorant.

[LoZoccolo]

31. This is bullshit.

What bills were excluded? Give me five. Or shut it.

[ProSense]

35. It's not the bills, it's the method.

Your OP database is flawed!

Sorry!

[LoZoccolo]

38. You cannot name one bill that was excluded; this fabricated assertion of yours is full of shit. n/t

[ProSense]

40. Hillary Clinton votes against her party

6/29/06 Vote 190: S 3569: S.3569; A bill to implement the United States-Oman Free Trade Agreement.
Position Yes
GOP Yes
Dems No

6/22/06 Vote 184: S 2766: Chambliss Amdt. No. 4261; To authorize multiyear procurement of F-22A fighter aircraft and F-119 engines.
Position No
GOP Yes
Dems Yes

5/26/06 Vote 161: On the Cloture Motion: Motion to Invoke Cloture on the Nomination of Dirk Kempthorne to be Secretary of the Interior
Position No
GOP Yes
Dems Yes


Oops, where is Hillary's vote on Kerry-Feingold? They used it for Kerry! Here voting against withdrawal was a vote against the party!

[robinlynne]

27. Lslie Southwick, a good example. A committee made up of 10 democrats and 9

republicans. 9 republicans voted for. 9 dems voted against. Dianne Feinstein broke the tie in favor of the republicans.
A judge was installed FOR LIFE who is a proven biggot in many ways, against people of color, against gays, and against women. for life. because of that one feinstein vote against the democrats.

[josh_edwards07]

21. Skewed Stats

What's new>?

[LoZoccolo]

23. Give us the correct ones or quit bothering us. n/t

[robinlynne]

30. Tomorrow is a HUGE VOTE! of major importance. At stake is the appointment

of an attorney general who believes and said publicly that the president of the US does not have to follow american laws, because we are in a time of war. This is the man who will be in charge of every criminal prosecution in the country, right after Republicans have broken laws for 7 years.
In committee, all Republicans are for Mukasey, all Dems ms against. But 2 Democrats are breaking ranks to give this power to Bush.
Those are the facts.

[skiddlybop]

42. Um, we know that the NUMBER of votes

taken by this Congress is several times what it was under Republican rule.

A lot of them are meaningless.

The ones that count are the ones that have been publicized.

If you want to make a meaningless statistical statement, and tell people to shut up and go away, then you don't want anyone to post to your thread.

Welcome to DU, loyal DLC-er!

[LoZoccolo]

43. If these don't count then how come the Republicans voted differently? n/t

[skiddlybop]

44. n/t but you have time to sit on your own thread?

hm?

There are hundreds more votes taken in this Congress because Republicans are playing harder in the minority than Democrats ever did.

Are you just trying to give a pass to Reid and Pelosi for being weak leaders and you don't want to see Feinstein primaried or forced to retire?

Welcome to DU, loyal DLC-er! Such an honor to have you post so often, Mrs. Emmanuel!

[LoZoccolo]

25. PS: Big up this thread if you want to force the splinterists to look at it on the front page! n/t

[robinlynne]

33. Feinstein is the splinterist. She is the one splintering the party. and her cohorts.

If the party would stick together, we would not have criminals in every judicial appointment and in every congressionally approved office!

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

48. Right. You got it, tough guy. I'm a troll for the Democrats. You caught me. n/t

[Basileus Basileon]

49. Rather disappointing that posting something like

"The Democrats are doing a pretty good job" gets you called a troll.

[skipos]

56. But not surprising. nt

[nosmokes]

37. Maybe Not, But There's Enough That Vote Against The People's Interests

enough of the time to make your statement meaningless.

[mmonk]

39. But there are enough that do some of the time

to keep this outlaw administration going and keep them above the law and constitution. There is always a few dumb enough that will give him his war, extra constitutional powers, his torture, his bad judges, his protection with the MCA, etc. They are collectively a failure, but the majority of them are good. But it's a net loss.

[LoZoccolo]

41. And how does that lend any support to the Big Green Lie? n/t

[Stop Cornyn]

46. Worse-Than-Lieberman Democrats: Mark Pryor, Evan Bayh, Mary Landrieu, Claire McCaskill, & Ben Nelson

I must say that Claire McCaskill has been a HUGE disappointment.

I knew that Mark Pryor, Evan Bayh, Mary Landrieu, and Ben Nelson sucked, but I look at their states and I'm glad that we have any sort of Democrat from their reddish states. Claire McCaskill, however, has been a real bitter pill to swallow.

[Basileus Basileon]

47. And each more loyal than at least 10 Republicans. And none worse than 79% Dem. nt

[LoZoccolo]

50. Lamont supporters actually should have emphasized Lieberman's Democratic voting record.

The most distinctive issue between Lamont and Lieberman was the war, which at that point I don't think Lieberman had the support of most of the Democratic voters. But Lamont supporters were touting Lieberman as a Republican, giving him free advertising to Republican voters, who eventually elected him. I think Lamont should have found some way to establish Lieberman as a Democrat who held bad positions on important issues, rather than letting his supporters define Lieberman as a Republican. That might have gotten more Republicans to vote for Schlesinger (the real Republican), and shaved off enough of Lieberman's support for Lamont to win.

[Hippo_Tron]

55. No, I think the White House, the RNC, and the Connecticut Republican Party

All supporting Joe Lieberman was really what got the Republicans to vote for him. Don't think Republicans really cared too much about what Ned Lamont had to say.

[Basileus Basileon]

57. Gotta agree with this one.

Though not officially, the Republicans were pretty clear that they were supporting Lieberman, and Lieberman's positions on the Iraq war were well-known to all. And, if polling is to be believed, given the proportion of Democrats who believed at the time that Lieberman was anti-war (due to a rather shifty ad campaign in which he highlights his "criticism" of the Iraq war, never mind how he's criticized it), I would say that the Lamont-should-have-called-Lieb-a-Dem hypothesis is a bit flawed.

[Rageneau]

60. Arkansas has TWO lousy Dem senators. Lincoln sux as bad as Pryor.

I hope they both croak.

[TreasonousBastard]

58. Amazing!!! You post good evidence that Democrats are...

actually Democrats on a Democeratic board and people call bullshit Look at all the people here denying that votes are really votes.

Jeez, and you're a troll for posting this. The mind is in a constant state of boggle.

:crazy:

Yeah, you're right, they should just STFU and go ESAD. They call themselves "true" Democrats, keeping the flame of the party alive, but they're useless and in the way.

Get Nader, Gore, Kucinich, the Greens and the rest of the lost causes and deadweight out of here so we can actually win an election.

(Even if the DLC is so bad, should we let Romney or Rudy in to teach them a lesson?)

[Hissyspit]

59. Who said there were? n/t

[ProSense]

61. Here are a few votes against the party when it was right and in the interest of Americans

These are Kerry's position on these votes:

9/26/07 Vote 349: H R 1585: Kyl Amdt. No. 3017 as Modified; To express the sense of the Senate regarding Iran.
Position No
GOP Yes
DEM Yes

Clinton voted with the party

9/29/06 Vote 262: H R 6061: H.R. 6061; Secure Fence Act of 2006
Position No
GOP Yes
DEM Yes

Clinton voted with the party

6/22/06 Vote 181: S 2766: Kerry Amdt. No. 4442; To require the redeployment of United States Armed Forces from Iraq in order to further a political solution in Iraq, encourage the people of Iraq to provide for their own security, and achieve victory in the war on terror.
Position Yes
GOP No
DEM No

Clinton voted with the party

1/26/05 Vote 2: On the Nomination: Confirmation Condoleeza Rice, of California, to be Secretary of State
Position No
GOP Yes
DEM Yes

Clinton voted with the party

7/17/01 Vote 236: H R 333: H.R. 333, as amended; Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2001
Position No
GOP Yes
DEM Yes

Clinton voted with the party

[ProSense]

65. Here is the exact opposite

These are Feinstein's positions:

10/24/07 Vote 392: On the Cloture Motion: Motion to Invoke Cloture on the Nomination of Leslie Southwick, of Mississippi, to be U.S. Circuit Judge
Position Yes
Yes
No

9/20/07 Vote 344: H R 1585: Cornyn Amdt. No. 2934; To express the sense of the Senate that General David H. Petraeus, Commanding General, Multi-National Force-Iraq, deserves the full support of the Senate and strongly condemn personal attacks on the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all members of the United States Armed Forces.
Position Yes
Yes
No

6/27/06 Vote 189: S J RES 12: S.J.Res.12 as Amended; A joint resolution proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.
Position Yes
GOP Yes
DEM No

11/25/03 Vote 459: H R 1: H.R. 1 Conference Report; Prescription Drug and Medicare Improvement Act of 2003
Position Yes
GOP Yes
DEM No

[frylock]

70. talk about whiny bullshit..

you got pwnd on this thread.

[bvar22]

71. LOL

I was going to post a rather lengthy response pointing out that a statistical representation of raw votes is worthless...that individual votes need to be examined and weighted as to importance. Many votes are pure throwaways, good only for "look at my voting record" campaign bullshit for the rubes back home. And then there is vote swapping which happens every day in DC and the State Houses......

but you said it better. Please allow me to quote you:

"You got pwnd on this thread."

[Basileus Basileon]

77. So which Democratic Senator, in "meaningful" votes,

votes with the Republicans more often than with the Democrats? Since that was the OP's point--that there are no Democrats who vote with the Rs more than the Ds--I would think you would have to disprove that before you can crow about OMFG PWNZ0Ring him.

[KingFlorez]

72. Terrific thread!

[2rth2pwr]

73. That can't be true

If I have understood it correctly, every Dem in Congress and the Senate has been illegally wiretapped doing criminal things and is being blackmailed and/or their family is tied up and being tortured while letters full of Anthra# are sitting in their mailboxes.

[OHdem10]

74. What about those who have 70 to 80% record of voting

With Bush.

[Basileus Basileon]

76. We call those "Republicans." They are members of the "Republican Party."

We try to keep those ones out of office.

[LoZoccolo]

81. Such as...? n/t

[LoZoccolo]

87. Which ones would you like to talk about? n/t

[Donald Ian Rankin]

79. The problem is that DUers decide which were the "big" votes retroactively.

The standard response from the critics of the Democratic Senate and Congress is that, while they may mostly vote together, the votes they split on are disproportionately important ones.

There may well be some truth to this, but it appears to be at least largely a matter of people who desperately want excuses to criticise the Democrats deciding after the fact which votes were important, based on whether or not some Democrats split on them.

[Mass]

80. Just shows how bi-partisan the Senate is, Nothing more.

The 11 % Feingold voted against his party are probably not the same as the 25 % Nelson did. They may even be totally different, with Feingold voted against bills that are too conservative and Nelson too liberal.

Sometimes, I would prefer more Dems rebelling against their leadership in order to push bills that are more progressive.

[Perry Logan]

82. The Democrats in Congress showed the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years.

As a group, the Democrats in Congress backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time.

[MattSh]

83. Well, Whoop-de-doo.

So they pat each other on the back constantly and tell each other how fantastic they are. Call me not impressed.

Call me when they start voting WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

[CTLawGuy]

84. you have to take into account that many votes

are uncontested or unimportant party line votes. Also not every vote is equal in importance.

[bread_and_roses]

85. Right. They vote with them just often enough to keep the corporatist war-profiteers in power

It's a shell game, at this point. "Oh, lookey-here, so-and-so voted for bike trails - AND for letting a torture enabler out of committee - so s/he's OK because that's only ONE vote with the Rs."

Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

[youthere]

86. HA! According to that..Clinton is more liberal than *gasp* TED KENNEDY!

(cue horrifying music).

:rofl:

[blm]

88. I dunno - every issue is connected to the greater issue of open government.

So, if someone consistently votes with Bush on issues that protect the goal of a permanently closed government and protects the secrecy and privilege of the powerful, then how they vote on social issues doesn't matter in the long run - though they WANT us to believe otherwise.