Does not giving drivers licenses to Illegal aliens stop them from driving?

[Clintonista2]

Poll question: Does not giving drivers licenses to Illegal aliens stop them from driving?

I'm sorry, but people who oppose giving them liscenses are idiots. They remind me of the "abstinence only education stops teens from having sex!" people. In the ideal world, everybody would come to America legally. Too bad this isn't an ideal world. If we are going to accept that people live in the country illegally, then shouldn't it logically follow that we at least ensure that they *know how to drive*, before having them out on the road with you?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. the states, which have to worry about what's going on on their roads, do not

have any power to deport undocumented aliens, so there's no option for New York to throw them out. That's why the state has to manage the situation as best it can as a purely pragmatic matter.

[Atman]

2. DUI's don't stop drunks from driving. Suspensions don't stop speeders.

What is your point? I guess we shouldn't take away anyone's license, since technically few things short of a ball and chain can actually stop someone from driving.

Yes, in a perfect world, everyone would be perfect. And no, I don't see how it "logically follows" that when a known criminal -- after all, that's where the "illegal" part of illegal alien comes in -- shows up at a government agency that we hand them a drivers license instead of hand cuffs. They're ILLEGAL! I shouldn't have my license taken away if I fail to pay traffic tickets or don't pay my excise taxes, either, I guess.

.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

3. The state has no power to lock them up. This issue is about states trying to

deal with things the best they can in the context of the federal government doing nothing.

It is not the state's fault. Since New York cannot deport them, it wants to at least try to keep track of them and reduce hit-and-run incidents and such.

[Atman]

8. How will the piece of plastic reduce hit and run accidents?

The very nature of "illegal" aliens is that they're already generally living a shadow life, because they're illegal! I don't see how having a small piece of plastic in their pocket, which provides their home address, and likely the address of the other illegal aliens living with them, to the law enforcement authorities.

The arguments just don't make any sense!

.

[Clintonista2]

4. My point is, it's pretty naive to assume that you can keep them off the road

At least you can try to make a bad situation as safe as possible. In Canada, for instance, there are clinics where drug users can go to get clean needles. The idea being, if we can't stop them from doing drugs, we can at least make it so that they don't contract some disease. This is a similar situation. If we can't stop illegal activity, we can at least make it as safe as we can.

[Atman]

7. Explain to me how a small piece of plastic makes it "safer?"

Does it have magical powers? The only reason I've heard people offer is that if you're unfortunate enough to get into an accident, you'll at least have the person's name. If they don't run away first out of fear of what will happen to them when the police arrive, because I don't hear anyone demanding they also carry INSURANCE, and complete a mandatory driver education program. Just give 'em the magic plastic.

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[mark414]

37. to get a license, you have to pass a test. to pass a test, you have to show competence.

learning those things make you a better driver. many illegal immigrants who drive do so without ever taking any sort of driving test, because what's the point if they can't get a license?

insurance laws vary by state. in most states i believe to even register a car you need to have proof of insurance (though that is not the case here in wisconsin). to register a car you need a driver's license. if you're not allowed to register your car, why bother with the insurance?

[McCamy Taylor]

42. They will have to get insurance. That is what the license is for. This is

all for the the auto insurance lobby. Once they are licensed up, then the state starts requiring proof of insurance, which they will also get, because they do not want to get a ticket and go to jail for not having insurance, which could get them deported. The car insurance industry has more customers and no longer has to pay claims for wrecks caused by illegals who were uninsured because they couldn't get insurance because they had no license.

The insurance industry trumps everything else in America.

[beaconess]

9. They are not "illegal"

They are here illegally. There's a difference.

Unless you also refer to everyone who exceeds the speed limit as "an illegal" or every 17-year-old who take a drink as "an illegal" or every taxpayer who doesn't declare every single penny of their income as "an illegal" or every person who has ever jaywalked as "an illegal," you should not refer to people who have come into the country without going through the proper channels as "illegals."

[Atman]

11. The semantics changes nothing. A distinction without a difference.

They are here illegally, and they'd still be here illegally even if I called Bonny Prince Edward.

.

[beaconess]

13. The "semantics" DO matter -

And it's very sad that you're parrotting right wing talking points.

[Atman]

15. Oh give it a bleeding rest!

I'm as far from a right-wing parrot as you'll meet on this board. That was a stupid, cheap shot, and quite frankly I could say you're just being a left-wing parrot for hurling that lame, tired epithet.

.

[Dr. Strange]

32. Oh, Atman, your bigotry knows no bounds.

You're a right-winger and an anti-semantic. Have you no shame?

;)

[Atman]

35. Anti-semantic! LOL!

:thumbsup:

.

[dugggy]

41. Beaconess becomes a cheap shot artist when she loses an argument

and there are numerous others on this board like her.
When they can't win an argument on logic and facts, you
are then accused of stating "RW TALKING POINTS".

I am yet to receive a single e-mail/letter/phone call
from this RW group I am frequently accused of using also.

[FREEWILL56]

5. The fact the ILLEGALS drive cars is irrelevant to giving of licenses.

The problem is they are here and don't belong here. I see GIVING them licenses to drive as rewarding them for breaking our laws and giving more incetives for more to be here. All this while we mere US citizens have to EARN our privilage to drive. Giving them a license doesn't mean they can drive or will be responcible to our laws as they are breaking them to be here in the first place. Poor answer to the problem. Scratch that as it's no answer to the problem and has no logic to it all.

[beaconess]

10. Have you ever broken the law? Does that make YOU an "illegal?"

Or is it only certain people from other countries who, by engaging in illegal behavior, change their status from "person" to "illegal?"

[Atman]

14. Sure, at that moment, if that's what you want to call me.

But when I pay my fine or clear it up with the court, I'm right with the law again. The illegal aliens are doing nothing to get right with the law, they're merely getting handed a driver's license, which every driver's handbook I've ever read starts with a preface about how driving is a PRIVILEGE which must be earned. When did that change?

But the semantics aside, read my earlier post. What, exactly, will this piece of plastic accomplish? If they're here illegally, probably residing with similarly illegal family members, why are they going to want to stand around after an accident and give their address to law enforcement? Hell, ask the census bureau...they don't even want to answer anonymous questions for fear of retribution. People just aren't thinking this through. It may sound like a good idea to some at first (not to me, though), but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I just don't see how anything will be changed by a little piece of plastic.

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[beaconess]

16. You've paid a fine or cleared up in court every time you've gone over the speed limit?

Or jaywalked or done anything else that in any way broke the law? Unless you have in every instance and returned yourself to the legal "state of grace" you describe, under your definition, you're an "illegal."

I'm curious - on what basis do you make such blanket assumptions about who "they" live with and the legal status of those persons, whether "they" want to answer census questions, etc.?

As for your other point, you may not "see how anything will be changed by a little piece of plastic," but many of those who are probably much closer to and more familiar with the issue - governors, mayors, law enforcement, etc. - see it much differently than you do and believe that it does make a difference. And you could make the same argument about American citizens getting drivers licenses - how does the "little piece of plastic" in the hands of citizens make our roads any safer? Of course, the answer is the same, whether the license is held by a citizen, a foreigner here legally or an undocumented person - it's not "little piece of plastic" that makes the difference, but the process, the record keeping, etc. that makes the difference.

Frankly, I don't understand what the big deal is. How does an undocumented person getting a driver's license impede your life, liberty, financial security, ability to drive, function in society or go about your business in any other way? Why are you so worked up over it?

[Atman]

18. You're just being silly.

As for your "curiosity," I'm not making any "blanket assumptions." I don't believe that every illegal alien is living with a houseful of similar illegals, but get real...it is certainly not a stretch to make an assumption that an illegal alien just might be living with family, would it? Family who might just be in a similar predicament? You're just looking for stupid shit to argue about. As for the census remark, that "assumption" didn't come from me, it came from the United States census bureau, and has been discussed on DU before. Remember them trying to fudge some numbers during the last census to try to account for all the illegal aliens whom they said refused to answer questions because they were fearful of providing info to the feds? I do!

Oh, and cute use of the "they" in quotes. What the fuck did you want me to call them? I don't have their actual names because they refused to show me their papers! (Sorry, I can make points just as lame as yours if that's where you want to take this).

Please don't respond. Either you're just fucking with me, being deliberately obtuse, or something, I don't know what. But I'm not playing your childish bullshit.

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[beaconess]

36. Wow - what an angry, frustrated person you seem to be . . .

how sad for you.

[Atman]

38. Seriously, do you get your responses from a Magic Eight Ball?

You seem to know every message board cliche in the book!

:rofl:

I'm not angry or frustrated at all. No, wait, I take that back. Lame-ass posters who refuse to directly address the issue at hand and instead rely on silly word games, THAT frustrates me.

I hope now you feel as special as you want to be!

Good night.

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[beaconess]

39. Good night.

[FREEWILL56]

19. Ok I guess I have to answer to the semantics police because

I didn't say illegal aliens. Just explain to me what this is really supposed to do as to how you see it. Whether it impedes my freedoms is an assinine question that is totally irrelevant to the discussion, but a drivers license must be earned or you better give them out to everybody as then you are impeding everybody else's freedoms. This as I see it gives the aliens more rights to the road than we have because they don't have to earn it and I don't see how this does anything but lure more into the states as they are being rewarded for being illegal aliens. I guess if you were the judge to me jaywalking instead of doing something about me you paint new lines in the road were I crossed so I can do it again legally.:freak:

[Clintonista2]

21. Who says they don't have to "earn" their drivers license?

The point of having one, is to prove that you can safetly drive a car. It's also needed in order to obtain car insurance. They aren't being given out without being earned, you know.

[FREEWILL56]

26. Ok fine, then tell me why they have a right to earn a Dr. Li.

when they aren't supposed to be here and would they be stupid enough to register with the state as an illegal alien to get one? Nobody has answered what this is supposed to do allowing them to legally get a drivers license. I heard one say it makes the roads safer because they are having to prove themselves roadworthy on roads that they are on illegally in the first place. I don't see the logic here. Can you explain it?

[janx]

27. I don't see it either. n/t

[dflprincess]

6. It won't keep them from driving, but it will keep them from getting insurance

Sure hope you've got uninsured driver on your car.

[ginchinchili]

12. I think you're missing the point.

Give illegals drivers licenses and not only are you condoning breaking the law, but you're rewarding it. It would make more sense to change the laws that made them criminals in the first place, but good luck. We are a democracy and the vast majority are not with you and Hillary on this one.

[beaconess]

17. Once again - illegal is an adjective, not a noun . . .

People are not "illegals."

[FREEWILL56]

23. And beaconess isn't a word. BFD

[Clintonista2]

24. Neither is "irresponcible"

That doesn't seem to keep it out of your sig line...

[FREEWILL56]

28. I wasn't being the semantics police here in the first place

and pointed it out to beaconess that since he/she wanted to be the English language police that they needed to know they are unqualified. I never said I was a great speller and thank you for pointing out my error as this thread isn't about why they should be allowed to earn a dr. li., but whether or not one is able to be in a spelling bee or some shit.

[Clintonista2]

29. Semantics and spelling are two completely different concepts. nm.

[FREEWILL56]

30. So what. You don't want to explain about the subject matter that

YOU brought up and just nicely explain what it's supposed to do that I can understand seems to be a task you and your canndidate have failed in. I should've known better than to ask a hillary supporter to explain why their candidate supports something or what it's supposed to do as they don't know.

[waiting for hope]

33. Here is your answer:

"Question: What do you need in order to obtain car insurance?"....

Who will benefit from this? Apparently the Sheriff's Dept in NY is against this, and there are questions being raised about being able to drive state to state where those neighboring states will have to honor that license, and also being able to buy a "gun" ... and how many illegal aliens are actually going to go into a one stop shop to get this license? Makes you wonder.

[beaconess]

40. Well, I guess you got ME told.

[Telly Savalas]

34. Exactly. People who break the law are illegals and shouldn't be granted drivers licenses.

However, let's start with the dumbfucks who break traffic laws, since they are actively endangering the lives of others by driving -- much more germaine than one's immigration status.

Blow through a crosswalk and you lose your right to drive forever.

[janx]

20. Illegal immigrants will drive regardless.

How would giving them driver's licenses stop them from driving?

[Clintonista2]

22. Who says it will stop them from driving?

Question: What do you need in order to obtain car insurance?

[janx]

25. This is beginning to sound like the start of a very circular argument...

;-)

[FREEWILL56]

44. Gee that did confirm for you and me how hillary is owned by the insurances

This says it doesn't make the roads safer as it only gets them a drivers license so as to buy insurance. Sorry, but having insurance does not make one safer, but it sure as hell makes some people richer. See it doesn't matter that they are illegal aliens as the insurance industry and hillary feel that they can still contribute to their wealth. This is why they couldn't say the real motives behind this because it's fucking wrong when it's based in greed. I know of a few that had insurance and are dead, but getting an illegal alien who drives extra carefully to avoid getting caught a drivers license and thusly insurance only serves to insure that hillary and her corporate buddies get richer. What a plan.
:+

[janx]

31. Most of the illegal immigrants I know of are fine drivers.

Why assume that they can't drive or are bad drivers?

[lynne]

43. Will licensing illegals who can pass the driving test -

- prevent those who are unable to pass the test from driving? NO. It's a no-gain proposition if the intent is to insure better drivers on the road as licensing illegals who can pass the test will not prevent those who cannot pass from driving.