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The reviews are in: Barack Obama won!

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:42 AM
Original message
The reviews are in: Barack Obama won!
MSNBC - (Howard Fineman): She talked about the process. And also that was the one time where Obama turned toward her, what we used to call in old debate language, the pivot, remember that? He turned toward her and he said look, this will not stand because if you're claiming the presidency based on your being the first lady, you've got to come clean on that. I thought that was his best debating point that he's made in any of these debates so far."

ABC News - Political Radar (Jake Tapper): I think Obama's having a pretty good night. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/10/live-blogging-2.html

Fox News (Major Garrett): …Obama took the question and enlarged it both philosophically and tangibly. …Thus, Obama trumped the stage by giving his tax policy a philosophic core (help young earners and cash-pinched retirees), while taxing the rich with either higher income or payroll taxes. Obama's best substantive moment, by quite some distance. http://cameron.blogs.foxnews.com/2007/10/30/clintons-dance-on-the-rangel-tax-plan/

Atlantic - Marc Ambinder: Bottom line, before all the analysis: …Barack Obama's were more resonant… http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/obbidoddwardsson_versus_hillar.php

ABC News - Political Radar: "You asked me if I would pledge, and I have pledged." -- Clinton, sounding, shall we say, Clintonian. Then Obama gets a bit deeper: "We have been governed by fear these past six years." THERE is the link to his campaign message that was missing earlier this evening. It does seem like the Obama camp has plotted this out a good bit this evening. http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/obbidoddwardsson_versus_hillar.php

Washington Post - The Fix (Chris Cillizza) "Obama: We Will Not Be Governed by Fear": …It was a nice moment for Obama especially because both Clinton and Edwards, whose answers had preceded his own, simply said they would do everything in their power to keep Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. These debates are about creating opportunities and taking advantage of them. Obama just did it.

Washington Post - The Fix (Chris Cillizza): …Obama Scores on His Background

New York Times - The Caucus (Katharine Seelye): Alternative Minimum Tax - 10:39 p.m. …Mr. Obama also said he would not campaign on the Rangel plan, but here he made a smart tactical move, turning the discussion to problems faced not by the richest people in the country but by struggling single mothers. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/live-blogging-the-democratic-debate-3/

Huffington Post: Glynnis (9:48:12 PM): The reason the GOP is focusing on You is cause that's the fight they're comfortable having…Obama steps out of the corner!! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-neffinger-glynnis-macnicol-and-rachel-sklar/liveblog-dems-take-off-t_b_70496.html

New York Times - The Caucus (Katharine Seelye): Licenses for Undocumented Immigrants - 10:58 p.m. …Mr. Obama uttered a devastating phrase for anyone who remembers the 2004 campaign: he said he couldn't tell if she is "for it or against it." http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/live-blogging-the-democratic-debate-3/
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. oh. I thought he was awful.
The one that got me was social security. He said she was not telling what she would really do...and so she did. And then he was asked how his stand was different--and he could not say. In fact he said he agreed with her...why is the media not all over that? Because it does not fit into their theme for the day.

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. What was typical was how Clinton avoided the question
I just looked for the transcript...none yet...but Russert brought up how she was overheard by an AP reporter:

Obama's campaign arranged for him to be introduced at the event by Tod Bowman, a teacher from Maquoketa, Iowa, who tried to pin down Clinton during a debate in Iowa earlier this month on whether the government should tax workers' earnings above the present cap of $97,500 to help pay for Social Security benefits.

Clinton sidestepped the question in public, telling Bowman privately afterward that she didn't want to put an additional tax burden on the middle class, but would consider a "gap," with no Social Security taxes on income from $97,500 to around $200,000. Anything above that could be taxed. Her answer was overheard by an Associated Press reporter.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071028/ap_po/obama_clinton


She did not answer the question....again....

:shrug:


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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. did you see the debate?
She clearly laid out her vision for social security and then Obama was asked how his view was different--and he could not say...so he got the zinger in (she is not telling us what she would so), he failed at the follow up.

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. I saw the debate and she avoided the question
Sure, she "answered"...but nothing about the question that the AP reporter picked up.

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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Clinton's position that you cite..
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 09:07 AM by MNDemNY
sounds a lot like BHO's "donut hole" You don't like that?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Justyce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. Not only did I not see him winning last night, I don't see it in your above quotes either.
"having a pretty good night"? And uttering a phrase that the repubs used last election against us and will surely use again next election, couldn't tell "if she is for it or against it". Great. He did okay last night, but I sure wouldn't say he won by any means.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. Edwards did a much better job last night than either Clinton or Obama.
That being said, at this point, I'm not voting for Clinton, Obama, or Edwards.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. The people voted him the winner. Obama had a great night.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Which people do you refer to?
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. People watching the debate
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. All of them , or just your circle of friends? No one asked me. I watched.
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 09:31 AM by MNDemNY
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. The WP reporter is correct
Obama's best segment was talking about the use of fear by the repukes.
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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm not an Edwards supporter, but I think he did much better than Obama...
and it's not that Obama did poorly...he just wasn't as polished as he normally is. You could tell throughout the night that when he was "thinking on lhis feet". He still managed to hold Clinton to the mat, which was impressive, but you could tell the attack dog stance was not comfortable for him. Edwards was fairly smooth last night and merciless. You could reallly see that trial lawyer in him. He was aggressive (which I have not seen in him before)and just when he started coming across as petty, he backed off. They both did well, but I believe Edwards was better.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
11. As far as making an impression of sounding presidential, I think Obama won last night, too
He accomplished his goal of going after Hillary, but he tempered his mild attacks of her by also going after Bush and the rightwing atmosphere in this country.

Hillary did well as far as sounding smooth, except for the last segment.

Edwards was the best Hillary attacker, but that's about it.

If only all our front runners had the spirit and spunk of Joe Biden, we'd never lose another election. Democrats need to finally get off their asses and start lambasting the rest of the Republicans just like what Biden did to that asshole Giuliani. It was so refreshing to see one of our people dish it out instead of taking it.
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FlaxieB Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
12. As always, Obama was outstanding.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. I thought he was very good. Biden was also excellent.
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 09:49 AM by MH1
Richardson is my fave on paper, but he was, um, not so good on many of the questions. He did well on a few, like the question on energy (he was on his home court there).

I couldn't decide between Obama and Biden. I thought Clinton did less well than expected, Edwards has never impressed me and again failed to, and I like Dodd better than I have in the past. But Biden and Obama both had moments where they absolutely rocked.

Obama's statement about the politics of fear was great. Anyone have that exact quote? (it would make a good op. hint.)

On edit: the op has a link to Cillizza homing in on that excellent quote from Obama. And come to think of it I haven't scanned the threads today so maybe someone here already picked it up. IOW, never mind! :)
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. Gee the reviews I saw said Edwards won. But then I didn't get
a chance to see Obama's halo. Edwards out polled Obama two to one.
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I do not know what you are talking about MSNBC Stated Obama won their poll
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. And MSNBC is god?
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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. umm...the reviews ARE in, and it's Edwards, clearly.

The reviews you posted basically said: yes, he was in attendance. OTOH, The reviews below point out how Edwards clearly framed and won the debate. Do you think BO would be happier if the names in the two collections of reviews were switched? I think he would.


NBC's Domenico Montanaro: “Edwards Came Back Stronger” Against Clinton on Iran. “But Edwards came back stronger, taking the liberal mantle. He said does any of this sound familiar. This was ‘literally in the language of the neo-cons.’ How is this Democrats standing up and saying no. That was impassioned and a strong response. Tries to show himself as the clear, sharp alternative. This is wedging going on. He might be elbowing Obama out of the way on this issue. His, albeit reasonable, but tepid answer on this, just wasn't grabbing the spotlight.” <http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/30/439181.aspx, “Iran - who stands out,” 10/30/07>

New York Times’ Katharine Q. Seelye: Edwards Is “Making His Case Very Clearly to the Jury.” “John Edwards’ experience as a trial lawyer shows, making his case very clearly to the jury. He suggests that Mrs. Clinton voted for the Iran resolution because she was moving from primary mode to general election mode. ‘Our responsibility should be in tell-the-truth mode,’ he said. Mrs. Clinton calls this a semantic difference.” <http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/live-blogging-the-democratic-debate-3/ , “Tell-the-Truth Mode,” 10/30/07>

Politico’s Ben Smith: Edwards Made the “Sharpest” Argument of the Evening on Iran. Regarding the first half of the debate, Ben Smith wrote, “Edwards closed with his best argument, and the sharpest of the evening so far: If President Bush invades Iran in six months, ‘Are we going to hear, 'If only I’d known then what I know now ...’” <http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1007/Semantics.html, “Semantics,” 10/30/07>

Marc Ambinder: “Edwards, so far, Has Made the Clearest Contrasts.” 9:20: “Edwards, so far, has made the clearest contrasts, but Obama has his paintbrush out too.” <http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/the_story_so_far_the_entire_fi.php, 10/30/07>

NBC's Chuck Todd: “Connected the Dots That Some Thought Obama Would Connect re: the Iran Issue. Early on, He's a Better Job of Drawing Distinctions with Clinton than Obama.” “Edwards just connected the dots that some thought Obama would connect re: the Iran issue. Early on, he's doing a better job of drawing distinctions with Clinton than Obama. Dropping ‘neo-con’ a few times in his response on Iran was a smart way to alert Democrats of his opposition. For the true activists, ‘neo con’ is a four-letter, um, phrase.”<http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/30/439182.aspx, “Edwards Puts Clinton On Side Of The ‘Neo-Cons’,” 10/30/07>

Marc Ambinder: “This Column Agrees With Chuck Todd.” <http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/this_column_agrees_with_chuck.php, 10/30/07>

Washington Post’s Chris Cillizza: “Edwards Shines Against Clinton.” “So far in the debate, Obama has been one-upped by Edwards when it comes to challenging Clinton directly but that doesn't mean the Illinois Senator hasn't scored points of his own.” <http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2007/10/edwards_shines_against_clinton.html, “Edwards Shines Against Clinton, Obama Scores on His Background ,” 10/30/2007>

ABC’s Rick Klein: “Another Good Edwards Line: ‘If People Want the Status Quo, Than They Want Sen. Clinton.’” <http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/10/live-blogging-2.html, 9:50pm, 10/30/07>

Marc Ambinder: “Edwards Gets In A Good Line On Lieberman-Kyl.” “So… to put pressure on the Bush Administration is ... to vote yes on a resolution that was written by the neocons? Has anyone read this thing?” <http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/edwards_gets_in_a_good_line_on.php, 10/30/07>

The Hotline’s “On Call” Asked, “Edwards, The real Rocky?;” Said Edwards Was “Well Prepared.” “Seeking to draw attention away from the teased Obama/Clinton showdown, a well prepared and dogged Edwards says that Clinton refuses to impose a timetable on troop withdrawal in Iraq. He, on the other hand, will get combat troops out of Iraq by the end of his first year in office. There is, he said, ‘a clear difference’ between his position and Hillary's.” <http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/10/edwards_the_rea.html, “Edwards, The real Rocky?” “10/30/07>

NBC's Chuck Todd: “The Spin Tonight May Be, Obama Backed Down a Tad, While Edwards Decided to Fill the Vacuum.” “Edwards seems to be the one looking the opportunities to hit Clinton hard. Obama's hitting her, but not like Edwards. If the NYT interview hadn't happened this weekend with Obama, the spin on this first 40 minutes would be: Edwards stepping up his attempts to create a contrast with Clinton while Obama sits back hoping he benefits from the negative fallout. But because of the hype of the NYT interview, the spin tonight may be, Obama backed down a tad, while Edwards decided to fill the vacuum.” <http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/30/439269.aspx, “It's Edwards v. Clinton... Again?” 10/30/07>

TAPPED’s Dana Goldstein: “‘Obama on the Attack’ Meme Was All Hype. Edwards, on the Other Hand Is… Talking About the ‘Clear Choice’ between the Candidates.” “So far, it's looking like the ‘Obama on the attack’ meme was all hype. Edwards, on the other hand, is doing what he's done in all these events, talking about the ‘clear choice’ between the candidates. He promises to end all combat operations in Iraq, and Clinton responds that she supports only a ‘very limited mission’ of Special Operations forces to ‘engage’ Al Qaeda in Iraq. She also wants American troops to continue to train Iraqi police. Edwards is really kicking, quoting the New York Times explaining Hillary's Kyl-Lieberman vote as a shift from primary to ‘general election mode.’ He says, ‘Our responsibility as presidential candidates is to be in 'tell the truth mode' all the time. We should not be saying something different in the primary than in the general election.’” <http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=10&year=2007&base_name=what_about_iraqb#030875, 10/30/07>

TAPPED’s Garance Franke-Ruta: Edwards “Takes More Effective, or at Least Cleanly Articulated” Contrast with Clinton. “Brian Williams wastes no time getting down to business, asking Barack Obama about his recent criticisms of Hillary Clinton. Obama responds nervously, with some sports story that neither I nor Dana got (go women's vote!) and making a stream of accusations against Clinton, including a slightly confused story about her Iraq war vote, when it sounded like he meant her Iran war vote. Clinton responds clearly and cleanly. John Edwards takes a more effective, or at least cleanly articulated, swipe next.” <http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=10&year=2007&base_name=opening_salvos#030870, 10/30/07>

NBC's Domenico Montanaro: “Edwards Is More Sharper, Clearer on” Differences with Clinton; Edwards “Has Been the One to Capitalize on” Questions in the Debate. “Maybe it's not in his personality. Maybe it's about 2012 or 2016. Maybe it's Iowa Nice. But Obama just doesn't seem like he either can or wants to be direct on Clinton instead of continuing to talk about himself. Edwards is more sharper, clearer on these differences. It's interesting, but Edwards' campaign points out all of the things he has been first on, but others have gotten the attention for. Seems to me tonight, that Obama -- by virtue of answering the question first perhaps -- has brought something up first, but Edwards has been the one to capitalize on it.” <http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/30/439255.aspx, “Obama's lack of directness,”10/30/07>

TAPPED’s Dana Goldstein: “Edwards Is Quite Right Here to Revise His ‘Two Americas’ Line In Describing Our Education System.” “Hillary and Edwards both give a plug to early childhood education, while Edwards is quite right here to revise his ‘two Americas’ line in describing our education system, one for the affluent, and one for the poor.” <http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=10&year=2007&base_name=the_education_debate#030885, “The Education Debate,” 10/30/07>

TAPPED’s Garance Franke-Ruta: “Edwards Makes a Nice -- and Original -- Point Tying Outsourcing of American Jobs to the Influx of Poison Chinese Toys. I Haven't Heard That Argument Before.” <http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=10&year=2007&base_name=outsourcing_the_toys#030883, “Outsourcing the Toys,” 10/30/07>

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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
22. You're dreaming.....
or you didn't see the same debate I did.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. Stop acting like we're the weakest nation in the world
I thought this was his best line of the night and that he actually did very well for people who weren't looking for Hillary to be taken on. If you take Edwards hits at Hillary out of the equation, then Obama beat him.

"But I think there is a larger point at stake, Tim, and that is, we have been governed by fear for the last six years. And this president has used the fear of terrorism to launch a war that should have never been authorized. We are seeing the same pattern now. We are seeing the Republican nominees do the same thing.

And it is very important for us to draw a clear line and say, "We are not going to be governed by fear. We will take threats seriously. We will take action to make sure that the United States is secure."

As president of the United States, I will do everything in my power to keep us safe.

Obama: But what we cannot continue to do is operate as if we are the weakest nation in the world instead of the strongest one, because that's not who we are and that's not what America has been about, historically. And it is starting to warp our domestic policies, as well.

We haven't even talked about civil liberties and the impact of that politics of fear -- what that has done to us, in terms of undermining basic civil liberties in this country, what it has done in terms of our reputation around the world."

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