Hillary won that debate by a large margin

[Tactical Progressive]

I knew what was coming tonight from all the NBC'er talk leading up to the debate, and I didn't think she'd do as well as she did.

She was being attacked, almost singularly, on every question and through nearly every exchange between the media and the other candidates.

And she came through it all with strong, reasonable and fairly comprehensive answers.

Every one of the NBC corpo-whore questions were geared toward trying to trip her up, even most of the ones to the other candidates, which were often of the 'What do you think about Hillary saying this...?' variety. They couldn't do it though, and at the end they were left resorting to pretending that her reasonable, nuanced answer to the drivers licenses for illegal immigrants question was self-contradictory. So they could then disingenuously pretend that she's a flip-flopper or whatever it is they think they got her on.

They didn't. She wiped the floor with the NBC whores, and beat her two main competitors, Obama by alot and Edwards by more than enough.

I know all the Hillary-haters are just jumping on the MSNBC smearfest wrap-up wholeheartedly - funny how the corpo-media they don't trust in the least is suddenly so credible the instant they slam Hill - but that was just pure bullshit. An extension of Matthew's pathological Clinton hatred with, as always, no basis in fact. The idea that Hillary 'lost it at the last question' is silly beyond belief. She nailed them like 30 questions in a row and they contrived some kind two-faced activity out of a final answer that seemed pretty clear on the very same position that most of the rest of the candidates hold as well. More pathetic Clinton-sliming corpo-media, eaten up by the Hill-haters on the left. Sorry folks, but that last bit came with all the credibility of a Chris Matthews criticism of Hillary, which is to say less than none.


I thought the other candidates did fairly well, considering that they had to spend half of their time going after Hillary based on NBC's debate direction:

+ Edwards did very well, but, to me anyway, had the look of someone who knows he's almost done.
- Obama wasn't very impressive - he didn't help himself in the least. His Kucinich put-down was his best moment, which isn't saying much. Mostly he mumbled and bumbled as someone else here said.
+ Biden was mostly reserved, at least for Biden, but was great the few times he did get going, especially when he went after Guiliani. ('Noun, verb, 9/11'!!! / Least-qualified candidate since GWB!) And that riff about how the other Dems don't appreciate all the great things he's done was funny.
- Kucinich, like Edwards, looked somewhat weary. To me he always speaks the closest to what we feel. But not what will get us elected.
+ Dodd was strong, but he's never really been a contender.
- Richardson is over.

++ Hillary is both the strength and the class of the field though, and she proved it again tonight. And no amount of phony 'gotcha'-on-the-last-question revisionism by Chris Matthews and his NBC whorettes with their anti-Clinton spin is going to change that.

Hillary needed to lose fairly decisively for any possible negative impact. Instead, she came out stronger than she went in.

[avrdream]

1. Thank you for the analysis.

It's pretty hard to get any good summaries down here in Oz. From reading through the debate threads I got the sense that Hillary had not hurt herself in any way but it was hard to figure out anything else. Sounded like John Edwards did what Obama wanted to do but it probably won't make a difference.

[saracat]

2. Wow.You have the talking points nailed. Most analysts call this debate for Edwards. Hillary was

creamed on several points. She was called out on taking two positions on the drivers license issue where she was both for it and against it in less than 5 minutes. and she was proven a liar on Social Security caps by Russert who referenced both a teacher Hillary had spoken to by name and an AP reporter.This was hardly a good night for Hillary and it was an excellent night for Edwards and Obama. Most agree Hillary really lost it in the last two minutes but you go on back to the talking points. Hillary was doing a barely acceptable job until the end when she validated Edwards and Obamas concerns. This was a major gaffe. Unfortunately , many will not have watched this debate.

[Tactical Progressive]

4. That's just silly

'Most analysts' being who, MSNBC's cadre of professional Clinton snipes? Or are you talking about the Obama fan-club 'analysts'?

Obama was stuttering and disengaged throughout the evening. Even Hillary sounded smoother, and she's not any great public speaker.

The simple fact is Hillary not only withstood two hours of grilling from every direction, from the front and both sides, but she did it strongly and clearly.

That's no talking point, that's just me watching the debate.

[saracat]

40. Sour grapes.Edwards won this round and Hillary looked bad. She did not withstand anything.

She was trapped by Russert, who named his sources, giving different "private answers on Social Security and then proceeded to try to give several different answers on drivers licenses for illegal aliens. She validated the others complaints about her.

[enough already]

46. Regardless of where you stand on the driver's license issue...

...for undocumented individuals, Hillary got her ass kicked on her several different answers. She was finally exposed for the double-talking, take no-stand, weasel-word con artist she truly is.

Will it matter? Not likely in a party full of star-struck lemmings. But congrats and thanks to Chris Dodd and John Edwards for having the balls to call her on it. Increased respect for both of them.

[MissDeeds]

45. I agree completely

You nailed it Saracat.

[Evergreen Emerald]

61. saracat has the talking points nailed--as if you read Tweety's notes

And those are faxed from Cheney.

Social Security: what did Obama say differently than Clinton? Nothing. He said the same thing, only in bumbling fashion.

Iraq: not one person disagrees with Clinton's stance--except Kucinich. No one is different. Did you get that? No, cause you are buying into the propaganda brought to you by politicians who want to beat her--and the media who is whoring for the neo-cons.

Dig deeper than the "talking points" and you will see that I am right.

[NRaleighLiberal]

3. Biden and Kucinich resonated the most with how I feel. I thought that

the three front runners all came across as sound bitey, WA insiders, too polished....but to me the major point is that we saw a stage full of bright people who would all be head and shoulders above anyone that the sad collection of Repubs represents.

[Tactical Progressive]

5. Yeah, Dennis speaks how we feel

Too bad America isn't grown-up enough to elect that kind of progressive ideology.

The good thing though, is that I'm pretty sure the rest of the candidates feel the same way that we and Dennis do. They just know that, as forward-looking and decent as it is, it's not electable in the dishonest, discreditted, nasty pit of right-wing ideological support that American journalism provides for Republicans.

[AndyA]

6. Hillary proved to all that she talks out of both sides of her mouth.

She got caught doing what she always does, saying one thing and then saying another when it suits her better.

One foot on the dock, and one foot on the boat. You never know which one has her weight.

And she is indebted to the big corporations now for all those campaign donations. More of the same with Hillary - big business runs government because they have all the money.

She'll be an improvement over Bush, but she won't be able to bring about the real change this country truly needs at this point. She can't, she owes too many favors.

[liberal hypnotist]

7. Agree!

HRC is staying on both sides of the major issues, I guess for sound bites and to defend herself in national debates. After the Bush Dark Years, it would be nice to have truth and facts. I'm still undecided but lean toward Edwards.

[Tactical Progressive]

9. Blah, blah, blah. All Obama does is talk out both sides of his mouth

From respecting GLBT to doing traveling shows with bigots. From pretending to be above attack politics to attacking fellow Dems whenever he thinks he'll benefit. From being against the war from the outside, to not being hasty about leaving Iraq precipitously when he's in the game and accountable. From inviting Osama and Ahmadinijhad over for lunch, to being more circumspect about who we do business with, .... blah-blah-blah.

You Hillary haters have gotten such a free ride on DU with your crap, for so long, that you actually believe your own cartoon characterizations.

Here's something I believe wholeheartedly: Obama is a weakling compared to Hillary.
He'd cave in to Republicans and to corporate interests twenty times faster than Hillary ever would, on almost any issue.
He's a go-along-to-get-along kind of guy. Hillary sticks it out.

In terms of political strength, Obama isn't even ready for prime time, let alone comparable to Hillary.

His big selling point is that he talks a good game. But he didn't measure up in last nights debate even on that.

But yes, he'd be an improvement over Dick Cheney, to use a smarmy DHL closing concession.

[superkia]

73. I agree better than Bush but still heading the same direction.

If we want our country to go in a different direction, somewhere that corporations aren't more important than the people they are supposed to represent, we need to get as far away from Clinton as possible. I was happy to hear Edwards speak about the corrupt Washington a few times, at least he is acknowledging the main problem we face in this country. I was upset that no one else spoke of impeachment though.

[itsrobert]

8. I need to go put on my virtual boots

Because the virtual shit is getting deep here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. deleted

...

[Voltaire99]

11. "Every one of the NBC corpo-whore questions..."

Yes, but tis pity she's a corpo-whore, too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. I Agree With Most Of What You Said...

I don't know what to make of the drivers licenses for undocumented workers issue...I favor it but I'm not willing to lose an election over it...On issues, like choice, equal rights for gays, social security,etcetera I'm willing to stand on principle and let the chips fall where they may...

[johncoby2]

13. Richardson is over. Edwards looks over. Kucinich should be over.

I thought that Edwards looked beaten also. Maybe it is Kerry fatigue on my part.

Richardson is done. I like the guy, but I just cant get excited about him. I've lost interest.

Kucinich is there to push the war issue and impeachment. Nothing more.

Biden and Dodd are head and shoulders above all the Republican candidates put together, but join Richardson on the lower tier.

[MadHound]

14. Then you must have watched a different debate than the rest of us.

Most people, both here and in the press, are saying that Hillary lost this one, badly. Her fumble on the driver's license, her stance on Iraq and Iran, her statement essentially saying that she'll be into Iraq for the long haul, none of these played well with people and the press.

You have the right to your own opinion, but I would suggest that it be a realistic one, not simply wishful thinking.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. The Same Press That DU Generally Loathes And Mistrusts

If you're going to sell out, hold out for something big...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. I Read The Accouts At WAPO, NY, and USA Today

And their accounts vary from yours...

But, hey this is DU and we all know the MSM is corrupt...

[MadHound]

19. Wow, that is a really convoluted rationalization,

And it doesn't even address half of my statement, that both the people here and the press think that she's lost. Hmm, are you saying that DUers have sold out too?

I was wondering when the Hillary troopers would show up, you all were very quiet last night after the debate. What, getting your little confab together to get your stories and rationalizations straight? Whatever.

Sorry, but your girl Hillary just fucked up on national television, badly. She gave away her long term plan for occupying Iraq, fumbled the driver's license question, and generally performed badly. Oh, and that is an opinion that was filtered by the MSM. That's my opinion, formed from actually watching the debate. But hey, you probably think that I've sold out too:eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. Quiet

I have a family and a job I need to attend to and be responsible for ... Must be nice not be to responsible to anybody and spend all your time as some latter day philosopher king, clipping coupons all the time...



Heehawhee

[MadHound]

23. Ah yes, duck the question about Hillary's poor performance last night

And somehow try and spin yourself as the noble family man.

Hey, pal, you're not the only one with a family or a job. Tell you what, why don't you throw a farm and twenty one hours a semester going back to school too. You're not the only one out there with resposibilities OK, so stop trying to paint yourself as the noble hero. You're just another Joe like the rest of us.

But some of us at least address the issues as opposed to doing nothing but spin, spin, spin.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. You're The One That Brought It Up...

Hillary did fine, condidering it was four against one; Dodd, Russert, Obama, and Edwards...

I paid my way through college working as a bouncer...Could I handle myself against one person? Without a scintilla of a doubt...Two persons? Ditto for that... Three persons? Maybe...Four persons?
We're all going to the hospital...

Hillary did fine...I thought her answer regarding undocumented workers getting driver's licenses was convoluted... I support them but I am not willing to give the Rethuglicans an issue to beat the Democrats over the head with...

[MadHound]

25. Since you're in such a Platonic mood this morning, you should consider the Allegory of the Cave

And consider whether what you're seeing is the real truth or just an illusion. Hillary exposed for all to see last night who she is, a warmonger who changes position as the situation dictates. That's the reality of what went on, despite your spin.

And please, stop with the poor, pitiful Hillary crap. Yes, the others went after her and her record. But this isn't a street fight, it's a debate, and if she can't handle herself now, how will she be able to handle herself in the future?

Sorry, but Hillary failed miserably, and she's got some recovery to do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. What Are The Differences On Iraq And Iran Between Edwards , Clinton, and Obama

All three said they can't guarantee we will be out of Iraq by 1/20/13 and all said they wouldn't allow Iran to go nuclear...Since you like the Allegory Of The Cave so much I would suggest the only ones who can find daylight between the three of them are those who already believe it was there...

And again, in most street fights, there are equal numbers on both sides... I suspect when the Bloods call out the Crypts they arrive in equal numbers...

[MadHound]

39. But we're not talking about those three here, we're talking about Hillary

Not only did Hillary vote for the IWR, but she apparently didn't learn her lesson the first time, and went on and voted for Kyle/Lieberman. Look, perhaps the first time I can at least understand, if not condone, such stupidity. But the second time? Sorry, but that doesn't wash. Oh, and for your information, I support none of the candidates that you mention, I support the only one who has been consistent, and correct, all along, Kucinich.

Once again, this isn't a street fight, despite your best efforts to turn it into one. It is a political debate, and Hillary should have been better prepared. Fortunately she wasn't, and she let the truth slip out more than once. Good thing, now people can see her for the warmonger she is.

[Tactical Progressive]

27. Hillary lost that debate just like Gore lost his debates with Bush

I'm sure you believe that Al Gore lost his debates with Bush, given your honest appreciation of the opinions of the pundit class. Yes, MadHound? Tell me your intellectual integrity on this is consistent. LOL!!!

You may be able to fool yourself Mad, but you aren't fooling me. Your acceptance of the pundit's opinions will go back to less than zero once they're not saying what you want to hear.

And as far as people here, well, I've got to say that Democrat-Hating-Leftist opinions, which have become noxiously prevalent here on DU, in volume and ugly tone if not in reason, count for less than nothing with me, just like the Dem-Hating-Media pundit opinions. Near as I can tell, most of the rational, low-partisan opinions about the debate on this board seem to track pretty closely with my admittedly partisan perceptions.

But really, I just want to hear you say that Bush beat Gore in their debates. Let me hear the words. Please.

[MadHound]

50. Well, at least you're intellectually honest

You admit that you're perceptions are swayed by your political loyalties. I appreciate that, since most Hillary supporters try to claim that their perceptions are even handed, even as they continue to push Hillary. I appreciate the honesty.

I find your dislike of pundit opinions laughable, and your accusations more so. I distinctly remember how the Hillary machine around here crowed and brayed during the other debates, citing the media pundits as proof of Hillary's mastery of those debates. Now that these self same pundits are correctly taking Hillary to task for a poor performance, now you folks want nothing to do with the media, except to repudiate it. Hypocritical much?

And it is refreshing to see your honest opinion of your fellow DU members. Certainly not a set of statements that will win you friends and influence people around here, but the honest hatred you exhibit is refreshing. If you have such a low opinion of the place and the people, why the fuck are you here?


And while I agree that the political pundrity class is indeed suspect, when person after person both in the mainstream and out of it are declaring the same thing, then I would say that there is something to what they're saying. But the main thing for you to know is that I'm not basing my opinions of the debate on the media reports(in fact I turned off the TV immediately following the debate). No, I'm going by what I saw up on stage, what my perceptions of the debates were. The reports from both here and media simply confirmed what I already thought about the debate, that Hillary lost badly. Independent thought my friend, you should try it sometime.

[Tactical Progressive]

58. Well, turnabout is fair play

as far as Hillary supporters using media approval to make their point. I don't think I've done that, but I'm sure others have, and I don't know that I wouldn't. But since you did bring it up HERE, I'd still like to hear you admit that Bush out-debated Gore, as the pundits you revere so pontificated. OK, nevermind. And no, I'm not hypocritical much.

Yes, my hatred for DHLs is honest. I'm the fuck here because DHLs disgust me in every way, and they are the biggest threat to progressive politics, as they have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt over the past eight years. They simply don't understand a fucking thing about politics in America. But they are self-righteous, dishonest, nasty and loud about it. Which reminds me so much of another group .... I just can't remember who. Actually, I've been here longer, and for many more reasons than just that, but DHL ugliness certainly isnt' going to scare me off. Is that OK with you?

I'm sorry, but you're lecturing me on independent thought? Is that some kind of reverse psychology? My thinking on this debate seems at odds with much of the thinking around here and, at least according to you, the media analysis as well. That makes me the independent thinker in both directions, and you in neither. I guess you're saying I should try to think like everyone around me, and that would make me an 'independent thinker' like you? Your tao is .... unique, grasshopper.

gotta go for a while....

[FlaxieB]

33. Maybe he was drinking during the debate because he was not watching the

debate we were watching.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. I Agree With Ninety Percent Of Your Assessment

However her answer on the drivers licenses was convoluted and maybe necessarily so...I am willing to go to the ramparts to defend the rights of gays, to protect the rights of undocumented workers, to protect social security, etcetera but I hope drivers licenses for undocumented workers isn't a replay of the gay marriage issue that the GOPU used so successfully as a wedge in 2004...

[Tactical Progressive]

42. I agree with you totally on that point.

I think I even pointed that out on another thread.

Dems shouldn't be playing with this issue. The media is trying to rouse the worst of America's bigots to smearboat the Dems with this issue. Their ever-increasing disgrace of journalism is fully transparent here and has been every time they have tried over the last year or so. They aren't going to grow a conscience - the gutter profession of journalism is dead. Dems need to understand this.

My template for a Dem response is simple:

'Get the goddam furriners offa are roads. This is Murka. These roads are for Murkins.'

NBC, wholesale betrayers of both America and journalism itself, wasn't looking in the least for thoughtful, honest, progressive opinions on solutions to problems. They were trying to sikk the ire of the nastiest, most racist underbelly of America on Hillary, and Dems in general. It's what they do now that they have destroyed any pretenses of journalism.

[MadHound]

52. Gee, aren't you the nice and polite one, NOT!

Telling people who disagree with you to "shut the fuck up". Of course that does seem to be the attitude of a lot of the Hillary camp around here, if they don't wholeheatedly support Hillary, they should just shut the fuck up, right.

Sorry pal, that's not the way it works. Hillary is as fair a target for criticism as any other candidate, and last night exposed that there's a lot to criticize. Her fumble on the driver's license is one, but what I found most telling is that while she is promising to be the peace candidate on the one hand, she also stated that she would keep troops in Iraq indefinitely to guard our embassies, train Iraqi troops and carry on missions against Al Quaeda. Now that simply doesn't sound like she wants to be very peaceful does it.

Look pal, your high handedness is one reason that so many people can't vote for Hillary, her supporters. If you want to win friends and voters, then don't come across as an arrogant jerk shutting down debate. That's what Bushco supporters do, not Democrats. Remember, we're supposed to be the civilized ones.

[Tactical Progressive]

59. Did you read the post I was responding to?

I mean, I try to be polite, but is it OK with you if I'm not a doormat?

[MadHound]

60. It's fine if you don't want to be a doormat, but you're going beyond that

You're trying to stifle others' opinions, telling people to "shut the fuck up" Not only is that rude as hell, but it also exposes you for the sort of authoritarian you are. You can't take honest criticism, so you try to shout the opposition down, insult them out of the arena, rather than honestly debate and compete. Sorry, but that makes you look quite small and petty.

Like I said, it is not a tactic that is inclined to win you friends or influence people around here. In fact in an earlier post upthread you were belittling almost all other DUers, and now you're telling people to shut the fuck up. Again, I must ask you, if you hate this place so much, why the fuck are you here?

But hey, if you want to keep on with this tact, fine, no skin off my nose. You will simply find yourself increasingly ignored and shunned, and then perhaps TSed, so you can go howl into the wilderness alone.

[Tactical Progressive]

63. Well, MadHound

you sure seem like the howling one here.

I asked you to read the post I was responding to, but I guess you couldn't even be that courteous.
So let me explain: I'm the one who was told to shut up. Along with fuck this and stupid that, etc etc etc.
Maybe you still didn't get it: He told me to shut up I was being dishonest. I wasn't btw.
Do you need the provenance of 'shut up' a third time?

So I just returned the favor and told him to shut up. I didn't even really want him to shut up (so there goes your entire authoritarian rage rant); I was just throwing his demand back in his face.

I'm guessing you're about to go ballistic after him and his 'authoritarian' pronouncements, aren't you?
Because you're so non-hypocritical and all.

I gotta go, really.

[gorekerrydreamticket]

57. She took the most heat, she got the most attention but she didn't win

this debate. Edwards and Obama had some success painting her as a waffler and she helped them with her dancing around on the archives, WH papers issue and the NY drivers licenses for illegals question. I don't know if those are big deals but it's really stretching it to say she came off looking real good last night.

[Perry Logan]

18. What a victory for Hillary. You could tell the other candidates knew they were beat.

[BootinUp]

20. You are correct.

I am not dying to watch video replays or anything, but she was solid while under attack, kept her eye on the ball, was not distracted. I think it will work for her as the primary voter is looking for those qualities.

[Tektonik]

22. Edwards won the debate handily

Although considering how Hillary was being targeted, she could have done much worse, and Obama was pretty boring and non-engaging.

[FlaxieB]

28. I had a few drinks last night too! Watching a debate drunk will allow you to say she won.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. Thanks For Letting Us Know

All this time we thought that the paucity of thought in your posts were a result of some cognitive defecit...

[FlaxieB]

48. Ahh, don't feel bad. Bill will take care of this mess, Right?

Isn't that why he's there?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. Attacking Me Won't Make The Defecit Go Away

But keep trying...

[LWolf]

29. I thought she was the obvious "loser" in this one. n/t

[FlaxieB]

31. She fell flat on her face. No matter how you try to spin it she lost.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. Can I Get One Of Those Paychecks You're Referring To

I promise to donate it to you to spend on the mental health counselor of your choice....


Heehawheee

[BeyondGeography]

37. It's OK, I clap for Tinkerbelle every now and then, too

[vssmith]

38. My take

I do not support Hillary at all but I do think she handled the attacks quite well. She is good at this sort of thing. I just cannot support a corporatist.

I thought Edwards won the debate. I do not feel Edwards is the ideal candidate but he may be the best compromise considering electability and liberal values.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tactical Progressive]

47. Ha! Ha-ha!

Hah!

I get it!

It's what Dem-Hating-Leftists call a reasoned argument.

Like the fifth time on this thread alone.

But still fuNNy!

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. I Love Crack

But if I posted a picture of the crack I truly love it would earn me granite...

[FlaxieB]

53. As Rick James said: Cocaine is a hell of a drug!

[Andromeda]

43. Very good analysis, Tactical...

Edwards and Obama didn't really make any good points tonight. Just the same old stuff---slamming Hillary with redundant talking points that we've heard a million times.

I was so disgusted with MSNBC and Matthews incessant blather about Hillary. He's an expert in his own mind and he lets his hatred of the Clintons cloud his judgment, like so many of the other pundits who revel in slapping down Bill and Hillary.

They never look at the opposition (the republicans) and comment on the utter lack of talent and stupidity of the right-wing frontrunners.

[randr]

44. That was no debate

Not one of the important points brought up by Edwards, Biden, Richardson, or Kucinich was touched by the MSM annointees.
Nor did the moderators ask Obama or Clinton to respond to any of these issues.
The issues that are most important to me as a Democrat.
Namely:
Impeachment, dependence on mid-east oil, and the end of corporate control of OUR political process.

[Tactical Progressive]

51. Impeachment isn't going to happen

Nor is dependence on Mid-East oil, or the end of corporate influence in our political process.

But these last two will probably be lessened with Democrats in office, versus increased with Republicans in office.

You need to get past not being able to get what you want - what we all want, and decide whether you want to try to get as much as we can. I think, for instance, that Al Gore as head of the Dept of Energy and/or the EPA, will get us alot, ALOT, closer to green technology, emissions control, sun-wind-ethanol etc, than the corporate crooks that any Republican will promote into such positions would ever even try for.

These are the choices we face, not the absolute good that you want right now.


PS:
And even regards impeachment - think about this: what if you knew, like time-machine knew, that we could impeach both Bush and Cheney, then take the White House for the next twelve years. Versus not impeach them and take the Presidency for the next sixteen years. What would you choose?

[randr]

54. I will not compromise my priciples

When a president attempts to install powers into the executive office the congress MUST respond with whatever means are at hand.
The consequences are not what matters.
It is the continuation of our Constitutional responsibilities that make us Americans.

[New Earth]

55. jokes

[Froward69]

62. Ha Wrong!

Happy Halloween Hillary fans! according to msnbc Hillary LOST!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/

by the same measure as American idol... texts but true.

[Boxerfan]

64. Errr. What debate were you watching??

Cuz Hillary was a virtual charicature of herself.

As an average Joe, Edwards won hands down. Hill came of rather poorly & evasive.

[Catherine Vincent]

65. I don't think she won but she didn't do as bad as some here are celebrating.

The Hillary bashers here are so desperate, they're quoting Drudge and other right wingers.

[ElizabethDC]

66. "funny how the corpo-media they don't trust in the least is suddenly so credible the

instant they slam Hill"

Thank you. Exactly.

[oasis]

67. The Corporate media loves a horserace. They'll inflate Obama 'till the bitter end.(n/t)

[Colobo]

68. Wow... you are desperate.

[Forkboy]

70. LOL

:crazy:

[ddeclue]

71. Hillary got her ASS KICKED last night... Nice try at spin Hillary-Bot..

Nobody is buying what you are selling.

Hillary is two-faced and dishonest and she finally got busted last night and you know it and I know it and everyone knows it.

Hillary is toast..

Doug D.

[Skidmore]

72. Bill, is that you????

Don't you have a golf game somewhere?

[sniffa]

74. i can't beLieve this thread is stiLL going

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[calteacherguy]

75. She did so well answering the questions she lost my support last night. nt