DU Kucinich Supporters...Josh Marshall's Reporter David Kurtz Needs to Hear from YOU...

[KoKo]

DU Kucinich Supporters...Josh Marshall's Reporter David Kurtz Needs to Hear from YOU...

I've been a reader of Josh's Site since the beginning, and I've always found his Lawyer Poster David Kurtz to be a good read. BUT...this from the site today is straight out of the Karl Rove Playbook (the same one that trashed and spread lies about Al Gore) and Kucinich supporters need to get over there and defend him.

If the Pelosi/Reid/Emanuel/Hoyer and DLC are using this kind of tactics against Dennis then this is the Lowest of the Low...when I didn't think that things could get worse:

Here's whats posted on Josh's Site:


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Kucinich Had A UFO Encounter, According To Friend Shirley MacLaine
By Eric Kleefeld - October 23, 2007, 10:19AM

In Shirley MacLaine's new book, the actress and longtime friend of Dennis Kucinich makes an interesting claim: During a visit to her home in Washington state, Kucinich said he saw a UFO and heard messages from it.

"Dennis found his encounter extremely moving," MacLaine writes. "The smell of roses drew him out to my balcony where, when he looked up, he saw a gigantic triangular craft, silent, and observing him.

"It hovered, soundless, for 10 minutes or so, and sped away with a speed he couldn't comprehend. He said he felt a connection in his heart and heard directions in his mind."

Kucinich's campaign and Congressional offices did not return calls or e-mails from the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

(NOTE: DU KUCINICH SUPPORTERS CAN GO OVER THERE AND POST COMMENTS AT THIS LINK:

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/10/kucinich_had_a_uf...
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And THIS which is up on the main TPM site where reporter David Kurtz makes a snarky comment to a TPM READER who is defending Kucinich. You can't reply on this link though...you need to reply on the above link for "Comments."

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From TPM Reader DF:

If Kucinich actually thinks he's seen a UFO, that is, at some level, "fair game", but consider this - on the scale of rating as prima facie disqualification for holding high office, how does belief that one has encountered an alien spacecraft above Shirley MacLaine's house compare to all the stated beliefs of all the GOP candidates (let alone their top advisers - cough, Norman Podhoretz, cough)? And, how much harm might come to us all if that person got into said office and could then act on those beliefs?

And with that consideration in mind, how appropriate is it for TPM to pile on with all the righty smear-merchants, when Kucinich is one of the few candidates out there consistently uttering the truths that TPM "holds dear"?

One particular point I take exception to - David included the part of the Plain Dealer article with this graf:

"I'm in favor of expanding opportunities for people to have a deeper understanding of the universe. . . . I don't think we could ever discount the possibility of other intelligent life in the universe," he said.

That's a totally non-controversial statement. There are 100,000,000,000 galaxies in the universe, of which ours is but one; ours, alone, holds 100,000,000,000 star systems, probably averaging more than one planet each; many serious astronomers not only don't "discount" the possibility of other intelligent life, many millions of dollars are being spent searching for radio signals from possible civilizations in other star systems.

So, please, don't participate in a slime that's partly based on Kucinich agreeing with significant numbers of very reality-based scientists.

Getting back to the nub of it - by peddling this unconfirmed (if undenied) report, you are doing us all a grave disservice by reinforcing the meme that Kucinich is a far-out wacko (DFH, even?) and helping to spread the notion that he shouldn't be listened to, when you could, instead, be talking about the substance of his policy ideas and helping to foster the national debate we need regarding where we want to go as a country, and how to get from here to there.

You folks do so much good work - please don't descend to the level of the sloppy, lazy reporting of the conventional media, the countering of which I thought was one of the main motivations for forming TPM in the first place.

(COMMENT FROM TPM REPORTER KURTZ:

I would draw a distinction between assuming there is other life in the universe and thinking it is sending you messages.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/056756.php

[rinsd]

1. But Kurtz is right.

The claim isn't that life may exist elsewhere in the universe but that Dennis came into contact with said life.

Also your link is broken.

[John Q. Citizen]

3. I heard that Hillary believes that Jesus actually "came into her life." And that she

"talks to him."

OK

[pnwmom]

5. That's not the same as saying she gets "directions" from a spaceship.

And I'm not happy with the current President who thinks he's a conduit for directions from God. I don't want another one who gets his messages from outer-space.

[John Q. Citizen]

10. No, she believes in a guy whose been dead for couple of thousand years,

she thinks she will get to go to some place where they will be re-united. (after she's dead too) Whacko!

In fact she hangs out with people like Brownback and talks about this dead guy.

[rinsd]

13. I haven't seen people attack Kucinich's religious beliefs.

I could have missed it of course.

We're dealing with some ridiculous story from Shirley McClaine.

[John Q. Citizen]

16. She sure was gorgeous in The Trouble With Harry. It was her screen debut

In my life I've found that lots of people have lots of beliefs that I find to be rather odd.

but as my friend says, "Everybody is somebody's wierdo."

In don't know if Shirley has it right or not, but I don't really care. Anymore than I care that Hill believes in some supernatural magic being who chose her to be Hillary.

Ain't life rich?

[pnwmom]

23. Dennis and Hillary are both believing Christians. But Hillary's friends haven't

reported that she's received any "directions" from any hovering spaceships.

[John Q. Citizen]

25. I guess that's her loss? Dennis doesn't go to secret weekly prayer meetings with Brownback

and Santorum. Maybe that's his loss, but not to my way off thinking.

No, It think I'd rather spend the night at Shirley McClain's house and see a UFO than to attend weekly prayer meetings with Brownback and Santorum.

I think somebody would have to be flat out nuts to go to a weekly prayer meeting with Brownback and Santorum.

But that's me. I can't speak for you or Hillary. Maybe you would chose the secret weekly prayer meeting, too?

[pnwmom]

15. Kucinich is a Catholic. Which of the Democratic nominees is not a Christian?

[rinsd]

6. Links are nice.

[pnwmom]

9. Here's a link the the original article in the Cleveland paper.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1193128634148360.xml&coll=2

Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich has claimed to have seen a UFO, according to Shirley MacLaine in her new book, "Sage-Ing While Age-Ing."

Kucinich "had a close sighting over my home in Graham, Washington, when I lived there," the actress, a close Kucinich friend, wrote. "Dennis found his encounter extremely moving. The smell of roses drew him out to my balcony where, when he looked up, he saw a gigantic triangular craft, silent, and observing him.

"It hovered, soundless, for 10 minutes or so, and sped away with a speed he couldn't comprehend. He said he felt a connection in his heart and heard directions in his mind."

Kucinich's campaign and congressional representatives did not return calls and e-mail asking whether the Cleveland Democrat, now in his sixth congressional term, in fact saw a UFO or if there was some other explanation for MacLaine's recollection.

SNIP

[John Q. Citizen]

11. Here you go. It's the bizarre story of irrational belief in the impossible. What a kook!

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-2.html

snip
When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

snip

[rinsd]

12. Hmmm doesn't seem to include any of your "quotes".

[John Q. Citizen]

14. Page 2 about half way down. i said that. I'm at least as reliable as Shirley MacClain.

:-)

[KoKo]

20. And how do you know he was quoted accurately? Are any of our Dems ever quoted "accurately?"

Making Dennis out as some ET Kook is a smear against him taking some quote from Shirley McClain.(and who knows who HER candidate is) and twisting it to make Dennis seem like some "alien." Even the photo used over at TPM is selected to make him look alien.

There's also a very nasty looking photo of Hillary over there...that I don't like either and I'm one who is planning on writing in a candidate if she's the nominee. I don't like to see sites that are supposedly and really are NOT RW repeating Smear Attacks and using RW Rove/Drudge type photos about our Democrats.

I'm sure you are supporting someone...and this should not stand. If they go after Kucinich and Hillary...with smear photo's and hoked up stories...then Your CANDIDATE WILL BE NEXT!

Josh needs to hear from us about this now...

[John Q. Citizen]

27. Koko01, don't know if you caught the whole thread. I'm voting for Kucinich.

If you see the link I posted it's to a Mother Jones article about Hillary's secret weekly prayer meetings with right wing evangelicals. It's a good article. I suggest you read it.

i won't vote for Hill. I just can't. So I understand where you are coming from.

I could care less if Shirely McClain said Dennis saw a UFO. It doesn't bother me a bit.

I would imagine that Shirley McClain is supporting Dennis. She's a long time friend of his. I didn't bother to go to the link at TPM. Why?

[KoKo]

21. Links were embedded in original link I gave in the post....

[pnwmom]

7. And not only that, but that he

listened to some sort of directions from the spaceship.

Kucinich needs to issue some kind of response to this. He can't just let it sit out there.

[gateley]

2. I'm not a Kucinich supporter but I'm heading over there now to comment. That's just smarmy. nt

[KoKo]

18. Thank you...this is a SMEAR...and it shouldn't be left standing without comment...

[pnwmom]

4. Kucinich's office is making this worse by refusing to comment.

It implies that what McClaine says is true, and what she says doesn't help Kucinich at all -- especially the part about him listening to "directions" from the spaceship.

[rinsd]

8. The Kucinich campaign has completely cut off the Plain Dealer.

I can't say I blame him given the way they have treated him all the way back to when he was mayor.

That said, he should issue a campaign statement.

[pnwmom]

17. The story has spread all over the rest of the media.

He shouldn't just ignore it.

[KoKo]

19. Don't you remember how they smeared Al Gore...and said Hillary was Channeling Eleanor Roosevelt?

This cuts across the line.... And all our Dems ...no matter Which Candidate you Support should fight the RW Attack machine on this. When Josh Marshall's site does a hatechet job like this...then it says even the sites we felt were REAL NEWS are listening to the RW!

This is below the belt. I'm not a Hillary supporter but if someone brought up that "Channelling Eleanor Roosevelt thing" again...I'd be all over it. This is the same kind of false ((((wooo wooo))) stuff Rove did against Hillary and Bill. We shouldn't stand for it even if we can't all agree here on One Candidate to support ...if they do it to ONE OF OUR OWN...they DO IT TO ALL! AND...IT'S DIRTY KARL ROVE RIGHT WING POO they throw at EVERY DEM CANDIDATE!!! :grr:

[pnwmom]

22. But if it's false, shouldn't Kucinich say so? The fact that it's been published

in a book written by a good FRIEND of Kucinich's is what gives it more credibility than if it came from some right wing website. He needs to nip this in the bud.

[rucky]

24. then it sounds like McLaine needs to comment.

she could clear this right up

[SaveElmer]

26. Too late...they have all moved to the planet Snorkack...nt