Who's got the best health care plan of our top 3: Obama, Clinton or Edwards?

[Colobo]

Poll question: Who's got the best health care plan of our top 3: Obama, Clinton or Edwards?

And why?

[Colobo]

1. Let's not only vote. Let's talk about it.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Which Was The Best Vehicle?

The Titanic, the Hindenburg, or the Exxon-Valdez?

In all seriousness - has anyone published a good comparison?

[Colobo]

3. Titanic. That damned iceberg!

[Colobo]

4. Kick.

[superkia]

5. When you said "our" you left out us 3%ers that support Kucinich.

If you go with 3% of the population, you are ignoring close to a million U.S. citizens that should have a voice. The media already ignores Kucinich and his supporters, has it got so bad that a democratic message board has to do it also? I would choose Kucinichs plan, he explains it better than I could so heres the link.

http://www.slate.com/id/2173840/


Rose: "Why do you think that none of your fellow candidates support a single-payer system and what is their rationale that you so disagree with?"

Kucinich: Well, I think there's a couple reasons. One is the amount of money they get from health-care interests. Another one is their own financial interests. A third one is the fact that they're afraid to take on the insurance companies because of the insurance companies' influence in Washington. Let me tell you this: I haven't been bought by anyone. I don't have any investments that are going to be compromised by backing a plan which everyone in this country has health care, and I'm not afraid to take on the challenge. When you think about it, you have three candidates, Sens. Clinton, Obama, and Edwards. All of them have said publicly, you know, they just don't want to take on that fight, they don't want to challenge the private insurers. Why? I'm ready for that. If someone wants to be president of the United States and they can't take on the insurance companies, what are they going to do about the Halliburtons of the world? What are they going to do about the arms manufacturers? What are they going to do about the the monopolies that control our energy policies? I'm the one person who's not only ready to be president of the United States, I'm ready to assume the full power that the people give a president instead of having that power be given to corporations who happen to prop up a candidate.

[Colobo]

6. Our Top 3, I said. Top tier.

[LWolf]

50. My "top tier" doesn't include those 3. n/t

[Bitwit1234]

7. I haven't heard a word about any health plan Obama has.

It is blue smoke like the rest of what his supporters here post.

[killbotfactory]

8. Right here:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

[ProudDad]

43. As I said elsewhere and elsewhen on this thread

That plan is also -- "Doo doo!"

Any plan the shovels more money at the same corporate for-profit leeches for the same broken "financing" system is Doo-doo!!!

[calteacherguy]

9. I think they are all similar enough to be a non-issue.

They are all a step in the right direction, and any plan that passes will be debated and no doubt modified to some degree by the Congress. Get a Democratic White house and Congess is the key to healthcare reform...that, and a President who has experience with and understands what it will take to get reform enacted into law.

[Colobo]

11. Obama is the guy with the ability to get his plan passed.

[calteacherguy]

12. Why is he more able than the others, in your view? nt

[Colobo]

13. Better ability to make people from the other side listen to and agree with him.

Also, I believe his plan is a bit less controversial than other plans (mandate issue). Apart of the fact that his situation is not a "rematch" situation... the right will have fun tearing apart one of the proposed plans, with a nice little name for it and everything.

We don't wanna go back to all of that again, don't we?

[ElizabethDC]

14. The right is gonna have fun tearing apart any one of the plans

rematch or no rematch.


(Edit to add: I don't think they're going to be tearing them apart because their bad plans, they just like to tear apart so many plans proposed by Democrats, and no healthcare plan would be exempt from that.)

[Colobo]

15. But I think Obama will have a somewhat easier time

dealing with that, given that he's new on the issue and his plan is a little bit less controversial than the others.

Hannity, Limbaugh, Giuliani, Boortz, O'Reilly, Romney, Thompson... they are having a great time blasting one of the three plans now... imagine how bad it will be later.

[ElizabethDC]

16. Really? Well, let's look at it this way

all politicians, even those who are controversial/divisive, were all "new" at some point. Hillary was "new" on the issue the first time she approached it (which is perhaps part of the reason why it didn't succeed), and she wasn't given a free pass because she was new.

Hillary's plan is undergoing extra scrutiny right now just because of who she is and because she's done it before, and also because a lot of people assume that she will be the nominee. If Obama becomes the nominee or becomes president, his plan will be gone through with an equally fine-toothed comb. When it's really showtime (ie, when the next president is in office), none of the candidates is going to come through unscathed.

[Colobo]

17. Good points, Liz.

[2rth2pwr]

48. As long as he decides to vote on it. nt

[sandnsea]

19. Obama's has no mandates, no tax credits

He doesn't pretend the reason people aren't purchasing insurance is because they have no sense of "individual responsibility" - and he knows that working people can't wait for tax credits. It also has real insurance reform, creating a program to guarantee fair premiums and a basic standard that all insurance has to meet. It's much better than Edwards' or Clinton's.

[Colobo]

20. I agree.

[Dawgs]

34. Agree.

[Rambis]

37. How do you qualify for the 2,500$?

How poor do you have to be? How rich do you have to be? When would it kick in? I don't know about anyone else but 2,500$ is a drop in the bucket when it comes to our overall health insurance bills every year. Just asking?

[sandnsea]

39. Those are just savings

Getting subsidy assistance would be separate from that. I imagine you would apply when you signed up for your insurance. I would rather worry about that then being mandated to pay several hundred dollars a month when I can't even pay the rent.

[Sparkly]

29. I agree. nt

[calteacherguy]

10. delete. nt

[EVDebs]

18. Dennis Kucinich but Edwards is in the top tier of candidates

so I gotta go with who's got the best shot at winning the whole enchilada. Edwards' plan is almost like DK's because it gives the ins cos a chance in the free market that ultimately they will fail at since a govt plan will always have lower overhead (3% like Medicare) rather than private cos (20% +/-)

[Milo_Bloom]

21. None of the above.

They all miss the point and don't address the problem and only make matters WORSE in the long run.

Hopefully none of these plans get passed.

[Colobo]

22. So you prefer what we have now?

[Milo_Bloom]

40. Yes.

If we go with a half-baked plan that doesn't address the problem, we wind up in a "slow bleed" that no one will pay attention to.

The current system is enough of a problem that it FORCES us to have the debate.

[ProudDad]

44. Don't worry

None of them will be passed...unless there's a miracle and 60 non-"moderate" Dems are elected in the Senate...

Their failure will set back progress toward a real solution another decade or two -- just like hillary did back in the early 90s...

The only real hope is at the state level -- primarily California. I'm afraid that the groppensteroidenfuhrer beyond having already vetoed the wonderful Single-Payer bill (SB840) that PASSED the legislature LAST YEAR is in the process of co-opting the Dem leadership into cobbling together another of those "mandate" programs that will fail us miserably and, again, set back progress toward the real solution that the CIVILIZED world has already enacted...

I have no more hope for decent health care in this benighted Empire any time soon...

[Steve_in_California]

23. It is IRRELEVANT, folks!

What good is having a health care plan is you can't get it passed by Congress? Joe Biden will be able to get health care reform through Congress without the sort of battle royales that now stain the reputation of this country. Consensus is the key.

[1320crusier]

24. its irrelevant because itll bankrupt us

the hell if im paying for someone elses healthcare. people with insurance dont even know how much a simple drs visit costs. the more people shop around... the better. the system needs to be fixed but not by more overbearing govt bs. stop excessive lawsuits, stop people from going to the emergency rooms for simple care, go after corruption, etc.

[JANdad]

25. Buh Bye

enjoy your stay!

[Solon]

26. Those "excessive lawsuits" take up less than 1% of TOTAL healthcare costs...

try to create another boogeyman, please, I'm amused by this post.

CORRECTION: takes up less than HALF A PERCENT of health care costs.

[JTFrog]

27. Then why should we pay for your

police protection, ambulances, fire departments, etc.? Those are such overbearing government agencies aren't they?

[rasputin1952]

28. Just for the sake of bringing this to the forefront...

If you have insurance and use it, someone else is paying for the majority of your bill. The individual in an insurance pool is paying a small amount, while the others are picking up the true cost.

Let's say you need an operation that calls for a $30,000+ doctor/hospital bill, just who is paying for it? Not you. You pay a small percentage between your deductible and what you have paid in premiums; everyone else in the pool is paying for your operation, post care, etc. If you paid $30,000+ out of your pocket, you should have bought insurance instead w/some of the cash you are now expending. If you are destitute, unless a state or county can decide you "need" the operation, you may either receive said operation or you may die, it is at their discretion. FWIW, the insurance companies work in that vein as well, some lifesaving operations may not be covered in your policy, and you may die, even if you have insurance.

As for lawsuits against MD's, the simple answer is to get rid of bad doctors; that alone would bring down the minuscule amount of lawsuits related to the medical community. Nothing like having diabetes, having your right foot amputated, when the left was the one that was scheduled for the procedure. Now you have no feet, and you want to set up a situation where a miserable failure of a surgeon would be protected?

If you want to really see what is bankrupting the nation, look at the bush administration. How many people could have benefited from the hundred billion dollars this man throws away on a senseless war?

[LWolf]

30. None of them have a health care plan.

They have health INSURANCE plans. The question should be:

Which of the top 3 have the best plan to keep the insurance industry profiting off the health care system?

[annabanana]

31. BINGO!

Thank you

[LWolf]

33. You're welcome. ;) n/t

[ProudDad]

45. Here's the list - top tier shills for the health insurance mafia...

from another thread...

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/sickos-for-sale/candidates/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3533316

[LWolf]

49. So our "top 3" round out at # 1, 3, and 6 with the health insurance

industry overall, and #1, #2, and #3 among Democrats. No coincidence, I'm sure.

I don't see how anybody can realistically think that people on the insurance industry payroll will solve our health care crisis.

[Mass]

32. Kucinich!

The top three plans are more or less the same, and they all have the same problems:

- They focus on "healthcare is an obligation", not a right,.

- They keep private insurances in the loop.

[PresidentObama]

35. Edwards. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

36. these kinds of votes are popularity contests and not reflective of the question

[FrenchieCat]

46. Which is why I don't vote in these.........

According to EE, Hillary's plan was stolen from Edwards...and so, both should be "liked" equally....I guess. :shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

47. I get to a point where people need to draw a map --

... to explain their rationale in their quest to bash.
Most if it makes no damn sense yet is argued with a straight face. Oy vey.

[hedgehog]

38. I describe Obama's plan as stealth single payer.

Everyone will be able to buy into the public plan or a private plan that offers the same benefits. I expect that gradually, everyone will shift to the government plan.

[redqueen]

41. nevermind

pointless

[ProudDad]

42. Conyers/Kucinich -- HR676

The rest are, to quote Baron von Frankenstein (that's Fran-en-steen) -- "Doo doo!"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Frankenstein

[IndianaGreen]

51. Dennis Kucinich's single payer plan is the best!

I don't see the point of discussing the merits of plans written by the health care industry, and peddled by the corporate wing of the Democratic Party.

[Capn Sunshine]

52. It sure is!

Kooch is the only one who recognizes that profit and healthcare do not mix.