Why vote for any of the leading candidates?

[concerned citizen23]

This is intended of course for those of us that consider ourselves the ‘more informed’ members of our society yet still plan to vote for a leading Democrat or Republican.

Knowledgeable as we are in how the current political, legislative, and election process really operates, why are we still voting for any of the leading candidates whether Democrat or Republican? Why are we still voting for the incumbents in Congress? Nearly all of them are bought and owned by the military-corporate-media-lobbyist ‘Politician Ownership Program.’ (P.O.P)

The duplicitous nature of today’s P.O.P politician:
Clinton voted for the war and for additional funding:
Obama appears to not have voted for the war initially but voted for additional funding:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237
http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00147
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3520512#3520520

Stop supporting the P.I.G (Politicians Insiders Gang’) and Stop P.O.P

We know the REAL deal:
Corruption is widespread through both parties. Regardless of party affiliations P.O.P funding is bequeathed with strings attached via the same sources. Both parties essentially want the same things. Each is in collusion and in servitude to the same multinational corporations, only their methodologies differ.

Leading Presidential candidates receiving strong mainstream media exposure and positioned as frontrunners are part of the industrialist-lobbyist network and serving their agenda. None get into the limelight without an alliance to P.I.G.

Candidates and Congressional members who are members of the Council of Foreign Relations are members of the good’ol’boys network.

“Connect the dots”…“Follow the money trail”
http://opensecrets.org/
http://www.warprofiteers.com/article.php?list=type&type=176
http://www.publicintegrity.org/default.aspx
http://www.cfr.org/

VOTERS…
Voting for the “lesser of two evils” is a loser’s game when both serve the same master!

Stupid is doing the same thing over and over again - electing and re-electing people that serve the same masters - yet expecting different results.

We have an option; voters can have the final say. But first we must jump off the hamster tread wheel!

For REAL Change, we must accomplish the following:
1). Fix the campaign finance system to get corporate money out of the electoral and legislative process
2). Vote in and replace nearly every elected official in DC – we need a complete turnover - no one obligated to the military-corporate-media-lobbyist network
3). Fix the press; restore journalistic ethics in this country- break up the corp. monopoly of the media
4).Fix our electoral system so that every vote is counted and every vote is secure

[FrenchieCat]

1. Your "For REAL Change" list is great, BUT........

something like (any of them really) your number 3.... Fix the press; restore journalistic ethics in this country- break up the corp. monopoly of the media

Can't "fix" it or anything else listed until we have a Dem Administration to appoint the right members to the various bodies that make those changes to get it done.

So all that you have listed is dandy.....and it is great that you understand what the problems are needing "fixing"--
However, it appears that getting things "fixed" is much, much more difficult and prescribing "HOW" we can change those things is much more important than simply identifying the problems (since most of us are acutely aware that these are real serious issues)....because at the end of the day, getting things "fixed" is what will count.

Guess that's the difference between the realists and the idealists on this board. :shrug:

[concerned citizen23]

2. The realists and the idealists on this board

Agreed, we ...

"Can't "fix" it or anything else listed until we have a Dem Administration to appoint the right members to the various bodies that make those changes to get it done"

It doesn't have to a Dem Administration to get change...they won't fix anything anyway, as long as their agenda is serving to the industrialist-lobbyist network who fund them too...

My Main point is party affliations make no difference. Change won't or can't happen until we change how these people are funded and by whom...and whose agenda they really serve...

[LWolf]

15. You can't affect these changes

with a Democratic administration if the Democrats in power are those supporting the things we need to change. Just because they have a "D" next to their name doesn't mean they intend to change anything.

You can't effect these changes quickly, but a good start would be to make sure you only elect those Democrats who will actually work to move the said changes forward.

It won't happen right away, but the more clean, forward-looking, non-corporate/dlc/conservative Democrats supported by voters over the mainstream corrupt, corporate/dlc/centrist/conservative Democrats are elected into the power structure, the more likely it is that change will become possible.

[concerned citizen23]

3. Open Secrets

Lobbyist:
http://opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?Ind=K02

Top Industries:
http://opensecrets.org/overview/industries.asp?cycle=2006

Who raised the most:
http://opensecrets.org/overview/topraise.asp?cycle=2006

[concerned citizen23]

4. This post is a good illustration of my point

Top Edwards Aid Joe Trippi: ""Too many in office have fallen under the spell of campaign money ..."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3532952

We can’t expect change as long as elected officials ‘owe favors’

[BonnieJW]

5. Great idea.

I'll go get the wand.

[FrenchieCat]

6. Yep......

Without a Democratic administration and congress, thinking that anything at all will ever be fixed is just a bunch of "Hocus Pocus"!

[concerned citizen23]

7. With a two party system yes correct

Still the main point is how these Democrats get funded and by who ultimately determines their real agenda...

[FrenchieCat]

8. But the main point is not "how these Democrats get funded".......

but rather HOW can we REALISTICALLY have the best chance of affecting change? That should be the main point....cause that's the only thing that will make a difference. Everything else is rethorics.....and only takes up space without getting anything done.

[superkia]

9. Easy elect the Democratic candidate that hasnt sold us out.

Pretty simple, that way we have our Democratic congress and president. One candidate voted against the war and said it was for oil and never voted to fund it. For some reason only one of the current candidates saw that, the rest either didn't research it, just couldn't see that or voted for it because of the huge amount of money involved ( military industrial complex, Haliburton and so on ), any one of those things to me, says that they shouldn't be in power of our great nation and making decisions on the peoples best interests. It kind of makes you think about who is for the people and who works for the dollar?

America hasn't got bad enough for the majority of Americans so we wont see anything changing in the way we select our politicians yet. Hopefully when it gets bad for the majority, we will still have something left of the constitution and our rights, so we can then make change? Time will tell.

Hail to the wealthy, the corporations and the politicians that take car of them!

[concerned citizen23]

10. What would you suggest as a starting point?

Would getting corporate money out of the election process and eliminating lobbyist funding at the legislative process which influences how legislation be a couple of good starting points?

[FrenchieCat]

11. How do you get them out?

I think that campaign should only allow individual donations based on the limits dictated for now....but this doesn't stop bundling, etc....

The system is clearly corrupt. However, I find the media to be a much bigger factor in the corruption of our elections. If we can get them to report the news instead of fabricating it, Public financing of election could become a reality. It is how the truth is shaded and twisted in order to influence public opinion that appears to be the real culprit!

[concerned citizen23]

12. True point about the press

One reason Nixon was busted over Watergate was the media did its job with real investigative journalism ...plus the industry was not so consolidated as it is now adn harder to control.

The media is largely owned by 5-6 major multinational corporations, such as GE with a $43 billion media portfolio consisting of NBC and others and is a smaller player in the media arena. GE is also a top military contractor. It is naive to think they would be unbiased in the news that gets reported on their networks that could possibly threaten their 2005, 2.5 billion dollar Iraq contracts. The networks they own are sure to be "sensitive" to the needs of their advertisers as well.

The corruption issue is a is a problem and as long as corporations can fund elections, PAC's and lobbyist, in fact they put greater focus on lobbyist, than we are stuck with a circular problem.

Legislation will tend to favor their needs over that of peoples needs. Granted a balance needs to be struck as corporations are an important part of society...but they should not be deciding national policy.

[Sparkly]

13. LOL

:rofl:

[concerned citizen23]

14. Thinking it makes a difference whether Dem or Repug

Believing you can create change by working with the political structure as it currently functions seems to be a form of denial....sort of like the guy looking for his car keys in the parking lot even though he dropped them in the shrubs because there is more light in the parking lot. It's wishful thinking...and hoping that somehow it is a self-curing disease.

With focus we can begin to get this underway ...we can expect more response from average people than from leaders, because leaders have a stake in their organizations and agendas and commitments to those agency that fund them.

Stupid is doing the same thing over and over again - electing and re-electing people that serve the same masters - yet expecting different results.

Voting for the “lesser of two evils” is a loser’s game when both serve the same master!

[FrenchieCat]

16. Just know that your revolution will not be televised.......

and it probably won't happen in our lifetime either.

[concerned citizen23]

17. And that is exactly why we must "revote" via the vote

What you say Frenchie Cat is sad but true, and all the more proves the need for the public to WAKE UP!

It's a good thing the founders weren't defeatist and had convictions in the collective power of the people to overcome the tranny of their time.

The American public needs to awaken to the power that rest in their hands...the VOTE! But more importantly how you vote.

Now I'm not naive enough to believe that simply declaring a change in our voting behavior will be enough to make things better. However, if we begin to understand how we are manipulated to go along with the “program” and how to vote, we can perhaps get some insights and take actions that just might begin to make some difference.

Unfortunately one of the negative consequences of a two party system is that it has evolved into partisan government. And that was not the original intent behind our form of democracy. Elected representatives were to serve the people at large; not be partial or loyal to a party, or company, or lobbyist, or some agency of the government. Orginally they were only to serve for a few years, not make life long careers at it either.

We are supposed to be a government of, for, and by the people...
Not of, for, and by Big money, corporations, lobbyist and party affiliations…

[concerned citizen23]

20. probably not, but what better time to start than now ...eh

[concerned citizen23]

18. Remember it was a Dem that got us into Vietnam…

Remember:
It was a Democrat - Johnson - that got us into Vietnam
It was a Democrat – Carter – that authorized CIA involvement with bin Laden and the Mujahideen during the Soviets war in Afghanistan early eighties

And why was this?
Because these administrations were pursuing US global dominance policy that transcends party lines and directly enriches the US corporate infrastructure.

[concerned citizen23]

19. Another perfect example of why we must vote differently

Does anyone have a list on how the senators voted on the Bill To Censure MoveOn.Org?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3536341&mesg_id=3536341