Has WI Been a Fair Test? If Dean Looses, Is That The People’s Choice

[Sensitivity]

I think the Wisconsin effort was worth it to try. It was a little like Kerry trying to make a comeback by winning Iowa. We had a full two weeks to do retail campaigning. By not competing anywhere else we conserved money to advertise here as much as anyone else.

The Drudge rumor was a real break. A lot of people started rethinking Kerry.

We got more luck with the big paper endorsing Edwards (I assumed they would give it to Kerry, I think they didn’t because of the rumor).

I think the people here are more enthusiastic for Howard than in Iowa.

The polls a couple days ago didn’t look good, but turnout could make a big difference.

My group is meeting after work and folk will be asking:

“Do we have to win to go on?”
“If not, how close does it have to be for it to be worth going on? 5 points? 10 points?”

For us it is definitely decision time.

[daveskilt]

1. super Tuesday is decision time not before

[GodHelpUsAll2]

2. I agree

[Sensitivity]

6. I think Dean should continue. My group is wondering what We should do

since if there is a bad loss, dean campaign activity may not be a
best use of our time. Most of us are activist because we are
angry at Bush and the war. We want to win in Nov.

[Florida_Geek]

3. I would hope any canidate with a "zipper problem" would have

dropped out or not entered the race. After 8 years of Clinton, I do not think ppl want more "zipper problems"

I love the Big Dog but...

[Maddy McCall]

7. To whom do you refer? Who has a "zipper problem?"

[Florida_Geek]

14. Well

jchild :evilgrin:

We just saw an run at Kerry with one. Rove will find any "zipper problems" trust me. So if anybody running has a real one, they should have not entered the race in the first place.

[Maddy McCall]

35. So you are saying that rumors should prohibit candidates from entering

Egad...how empty the executive and legislative halls would be.

[daveskilt]

38. agreed. Americans are so prudish about their leaders affairs

you are so cute being squeemish about it.

[Sensitivity]

15. Show that some will use rumors, even when know to be false. Sick

[argonne]

4. Yes!

<<The Drudge rumor was a real break. A lot of people started rethinking Kerry.>>

Yes, that was a REAL break!

Maybe in the general election in November, Republicans can use what they learned to REALLY screw the Democrats! Good thinking!

[John_H]

5. People in every region and sub region except for rocky mountain states

have voted

[AVID]

8. don't mind us . . .

we don't really matter.

(sad but true = still the lone du donor from MT)

[eileen_d]

37. LOL, I'm from Montana too

Heck, I'm used to not mattering! ;)

BTW I have donated to DU in the past, just couldn't afford it for this drive. Glad you made our state look good, and glad you're here! :hi:

[daveskilt]

39. could be worse...could be Utah

I lived there back when Bill Clinton came fourth in the district I lived in behind Bush (74%) Perot (19%) and Bo Gritz (the nutjob who wants to outlaw the UN and make the carrying of firearms mandatory for anyone over the age of 16 - 4%) Utah will never matter

[Sensitivity]

22. I think Wisconsin was a resonable test. Very liberal. If we can't win here

.....I am sure it is reasonable to think we could make a stand
and any other state.

[stickdog]

25. Don't worry. Just follow Steve Grossman's example.

It shows the way to inner peace.

[spooky3]

9. Edwards got the newspaper endorsements for the reasons

the papers stated. There are a lot of good reasons to vote for him rather than against a rumor about another candidate.

[Sensitivity]

12. Well, I was surprised. Everyone I know was.

[sybylla]

10. I don't think one open primary state should ever be a deciding factor

First, because we are an open primary state, there is little point in trying to predict what will happen before the polls close. With no competition for chimpy in the primary, we will get a lot of repukes trying to choose our candidate. If they think the rumor of an affair will hurt Kerry, they'll vote for him. If they they chimpy has a better shot against Dean, they'll vote for him. If they think Edwards is the lesser of three evils, they'll vote for him.

Second, after the Wisconsin primary today, the winner will still have no more than 1/4th of the delegates they need to get the nomination. Any talk of it being over is just plain shortsighted.

[Sensitivity]

11. I know. But we chose WI as the state to win. Was that a mistake?

[sybylla]

13. Nope

Focusing in Wisconsin is not a mistake. Saying you'll quit if you don't win was. I'm not sure who that came from within the campaign, if Grossman said it or pressured Dean to say it, but it was a gamble they weren't prepared to make nor should they have been.

Being an outsider is a big advantage in a state that elected Feingold to the Senate. Dean has even tried to capitalize on that aspect of his message. I think he's done a good job but I don't know if it will pay off. I hear so many pundits calling Wisconsin for Kerry who obviously don't understand the nature of our primary or our voters. I'm not saying Kerry will lose. But to count Dean out is a mistake. I think he'll have a strong showing here.

[stickdog]

19. Who is we? You and Steve Grossman chose WI as the state to win!

Howard & I had nothing to do with that. ;-)

[duvinnie]

16. why I keep trucking for HD

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0217-06.htm

[Sensitivity]

17. Good Article. But we can always find fault. Can we keep using negatives to

motivate our own efforts. I don't think so. I want to believe in
something and fight for it.

[stickdog]

20. Follow Steve Grossman.

He can show us all the way, the truth and the light!

[stickdog]

18. A FAIR test? Have you turned on the TV or read the paper lately?

"Governor Dean, how horrible will you feel after you fail miserably again in WI and have to drop out the race with your campaign in turmoil?"

"Dr. Dean, how wrenching will it be when you fail miserably again in WI and have to drop out the race with your campaign in turmoil?"

"Mr. Dean, how can you possibly go on with life after you fail miserably again in WI and have to drop out the race with your campaign in turmoil?"

[Sensitivity]

21. Let's be honest. They were saying same to Kerry and Edwards before Iowa.

[stickdog]

26. Let's be honest.

No, they weren't. Certainly not in the last two weeks leading up to the caucus. Which is when it counted.

Nobody was planning Kerry's & Edwards' funerals on ELECTION EVE & ELECTION DAY.

It simply never happened. So why try to pretend that it did?

[The Magistrate]

23. It Is An Amazingly Simple Proposition, Sir

The candidate who gets the most votes is the people's choice; candidates who get fewer votes are not the people's choice.

If Gov. Dean gets fewer votes than his leading rival, the people will not have chosen Gov. Dean. In no state thus far has Gov. Dean been the people's choice, and there is no reason to suspect this will change in future.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[stickdog]

27. Exactly. Once the media writes the story, we all must do our part to

make it come true!

[The Magistrate]

29. Your Point Is Unclear, Sir

People vote, and thus the outcome if their voting is determined. You may not like what the people do, Mr. Dog, but they do it just the same. Democracy is abiding by the outcome of their votes. There are certainly systems where some presume to disregard the votes of the people, feeling themselves better suited to rule than a gaggle of common folk.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[RetroLounge]

33. I agree about the "Amazingly Simple" part

and the Media-poured Kool Aid tastes so sweet.

[mrgorth]

24. I'll get flamed but

I think if this is a bad loss Dean should back out and lead his supporters in forming a coalition to fight the influence of the DLC. HE and we can still be a positive force. Not like this though. A very close 2nd would be enough to go on. Nothing besides that.

[stickdog]

28. Yes. Dean must drop out immediately. So it has been written.

So it shall be done.

[Sensitivity]

30. I agree. We are thinking now that we continue if Dean is within 10 points

[RetroLounge]

34. I better follow the script.

Let me consult my newspaper first...

[NoPasaran]

36. With whom would you form this coalition?

I respect what Kucinich is doing but his supporters don't seem to want to have anything to do with us.

Clark's people seem to have boarded the Kerry boat.

Who else is out there?

Stay strong. Even if we cannot win, we need to continue to pick up delegates. Take over your precinct. Take over your county and state parties. That is how eventually we beat the DLC and the pink tutu crowd.

[MoonRiver]

31. It's up to Dean and his supporters.

There certainly has been a definite pattern of Kerry winning, as I, a Clark supporter, so sadly know. But whether you chose to carry on or not is governed by factors like money and Dean's energy level. If you guys have the funds and Dean is up to it I think it benefits everybody for Dean to stay in. Heck, we can keep the issues in the face of American voters and get free air time to boot!

[NoPasaran]

32. It is the choice of the people of Wisconsin

We Texans would like to have our say and we will on March 9.