Sen. Webb explains his vote on FISA

[Va Lefty]

http://www.raisingkaine.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=9735
I support Jim Webb. He's a helluva lot better than what we had.

[SaveElmer]

1. I have alot of respect for Webb...

And I know he did not take this vote lightly, nor did he cast it for political reasons...I certainly hope he is right that in the next 6 months they can craft the necessary safeguards....

Makes me a bit edgy though...

[alarimer]

2. There's no excuse for this vote

It is just Dems being chicken shit and not standing up to that piece of shit president.

[brentspeak]

3. I trust Webb

[napi21]

4. I read his response and he's one of a very few people in DC that I

trust. I have no idea if the intel is right or not, but I believe he has heard a lot more than we have, and I trust his judgement.

[rodeodance]

14. he heard what Bushcco wanted him to hear (through the other Senators)

[napi21]

17. Maybe, but Webb is sharp. If he had questions he would ask.

There aren't too many people I have much faith in these days, but I still have faith in Jim.

[Mass]

21. So Feingold and Durbin are idiots, just to quote these two.

Good to know, because a lot of people respect them a lot here.

I like Webb, but I disagree with this vote. Even good people can make errors.

[napi21]

22. No Feingold & Durbin are NOT idiots! They obviously have a different opinion.

I'm not going to hang any of them for voting what they believe.

[dajoki]

23. A lot of smart people were fooled...

with the false intelligence that put us in Iraq.

[peacetalksforall]

5. If he's so right, why were there Senators who voted against it?

I loath the voting records of Landrieau, the Nelsons, etc - and now he and Kobuchar did us in.

Make George a happy man.

[nosmokes]

6. Buncha bogus bullsh*t.

Craft a better bill and pass that now if the threat is real. if not then don't give the mofo in the WH another microgram of power and put together the right bill and pass that in 6 mos. but fuck this half-assed bullshit.

[Peregrine Took]

7. I never trust a rethug and if you served in a rethug administration - you are

one.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. So what about the Dems who voted against it?

Did they not have the same information Webb had?

[ProSense]

9. So the chairman of the Senate Intelligence committee

was blowing smoke?

Don't panic. Congress just passed a bill that "concedes unprecedented authority" to the AG

And Harry Reid?

[PATRICK]

10. FISA surrender

was guaranteed by the inability to take down the abusive CIC who manipulates, exploits, mismanages and ruins the intelligence community and the necessary effort. As long as you accept Bush running this perilous program you have already granted the biggest argument, ironically because to defend principles NOW would mean removing this moronic traitor from his oversight position ASAP. Can't can't won't must. All these subsequent disgusting surrenders or necessary bills, whatever one wants to call them proceed from November 2000 and the trap the Dems assented to.

The concerns of the intel community will always be outruled, abused, ignored, attacked by the primary power of an unchecked abusive manger who happens to be fake, a failure and the biggest danger this country has ever faced. His stewardship includes all the elements of what it takes for America to be stripped of its defenses, rights, institutions and just plain get hit for the sake of a new fascism.

You can defer taking care of Bush, of the terrible laws, to judgment day but never remove the responsibility that comes from refusing to confront the real threat to America as people die daily.
Rove would have us accept or rationalize or be distracted by one wrong to weaken our concern for another and repeat, spin and rinse. Then hang us out to dry. This model will not work for Democrats and not forever for catastrophic Republicans.

[tiptoe]

11. "the terrorist threat to the nation is extremely serious" ...Oh? Has there been SERIOUS 9/11

investigation yet?

Shouldn't happen FIRST, before RISK of seriously threatening "basic civil and constitutional rights"?

After all, minimally prima facie: The DAMN WTC BUILDINGS WOULDN'T HAVE COLLAPSED AT SPEED OF GRAVITY UNLESS DEMOLITION EXPLOSIVES WERE USED...ESPECIALLY THE WTC7 THAT WAS NOT EVEN HIT BY A PLANE!

Liars? Hypocrits? Sell outs? Idiots? "Politically savvy"?

Until those same "democratic" senators accommodating * FISA changes move to re-open the 9/11 investigation AND Pre-War Intelligence, I'll reserve taking seriously their concerns about "basic civil and constitutional rights." And while they're busy re-assessing their respective intellectual consciences, maybe they can include election fraud along with investigations into those other frauds of the * "administration". Appreciating the */Cheney contempt for Congressional oversight begins with an understanding of their contempt for structures of democracy and the Constitution ("it's just a goddamned piece of paper!").

California Secretary of State Debra Bowen "gets it".

[tiptoe]

29. (and, yes, * ever saying "just a...piece of paper" is debunked by articles in search results link.)

[davidwparker]

12. Is this the 13th time FISA has been changed since * stole the 2000 election?

[Totally Committed]

13. There is no excuse for that vote.

Non, whatsoever. I don't care what he has to say about it.

Ugh.

TC

[elizm]

15. Not buying it. No excuse. nt

[rodeodance]

16. The FISA Fix/Mess- Combatting the Lies, Misinfo & Dysinformation. ACLU Fact Sheet

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject The FISA Fix/Mess- Combatting the Lies, Misinfo & Dysinformation. ACLU Fact Sheet
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1511757#1511757
1511757, The FISA Fix/Mess- Combatting the Lies, Misinfo & Dysinformation. ACLU Fact Sheet
Posted by chill_wind on Sat Aug-04-07 11:25 AM

The Myths Bush has been selling to America, to the Media- myths our Congress in turn is trying to sell to us. There are factual resources here. (Please keep passing them on!)



MYTH: The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act needs to be modernized.

FACT: The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act has been updated more than 50 times since being enacted in the '70s. It was updated as recently as last year.


MYTH: We need warrants to wiretap foreigners abroad.

FACT: Current law allows foreign-to-foreign communications to be intercepted without a warrant. What this proposal is really about is the right to wiretap Americans - without a warrant - who are speaking with people overseas.

MYTH: FISA has not kept up with new technology.

FACT: There is absolutely no new technology that evades FISA. Even the man responsible for prepping and filing all FISA applications, James Baker, head of the Justice Department's Office of Intelligence Policy and Review, has said that, "There's no type of collection that's prohibited by the statute." FISA was modernized by the Patriot Act, by Intelligence Reform legislation and by the re-authorization of the Patriot Act - indeed has been updated 50 times since it was enacted in 1978.

MYTH: Congress knows the facts about the NSA warrantless spying program.

FACT: The Senate Judiciary Committee asked for the legal rationale for the program nine times before issuing subpoenas, and still hasn't received an answer due to consistent stonewalling by the administration and the Department of Justice. The American public and their elected senators and representatives do not yet know the full extent of the warrantless wiretapping program and the extent to which FISA has been violated. So why would Congress grant additional power to this administration?

MYTH: We need this now.

FACT: This is not the time to hand even more power to an administration that has denied the legislative branch's constitutionally mandated oversight role and refused to hold the attorney general accountable for a series of contradictory statements. The only thing more outrageous than the administration's call for even more unfettered power is a Congress that would consider giving it.



MORE:
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/31144res20070731.html

(bold-face mine)

[MasonJar]

18. They needed every single vote that the dems gave. I am only glad that it is a

6 month debacle. They had better do better in the interim.

[lynne]

19. Seems to me Webb wants it both ways -

- and will talk out of both sides of his mouth to please whomever is listening. Not sure I can even tell the difference between Webb and what we had at this point.

[karynnj]

25. If nothing else, he voted for Reid instead of McConnell

for majority leader. It's the difference between having the chairmanships or not.

[Fovea]

20. I cannot agree with this type of rhetoric from Dems.

Nameless horrors and creeping madness makes H.P. Lovecraft a second rate writer of fiction.
It works no better as an excuse to abridge and tolerate the prior abridgment of civil rights!

[Gloria]

24. I think his inner Republican is surfacing.....

[ChiciB1]

26. At This Point In Time I Don't Know WHAT To Think! The Military Family I

was brought up in never thought this way! I KNOW times have changed, but they always change. I once thought Eisenhower and Goldwater were Repukes I could never agree with... my father told me they were when I was very young. Now, both of them seem to be to the "left" of many Democrats!

Strange that what they promoted looks more like a DEMOCRACY than what is going on now. The Military Industrial Complex has turned into what McCain sang a while ago... Bomb, Bomb, Bomb & name ANY country! Amerika is going to use all it's arsenal of weaponry to blow most of the world into oblivion!

Pray tell, why does THIS country get to have ALL the marbles and restrict others from defending themselves? Am I the only one who sees that WE instigated this stuff in the first place?? The Cold War was a farce, but I remember some sort of drills where I had to hide under my desk at school because the Ruskies were coming! As time goes by each generation enhances the destructive power of our weapons, and the physicians find more intricate ways to save lives that will most probably make them dependent on their children to care for them. Meanwhile it becomes harder and harder and more expensive to deal with the monumental physical and mental problems that all concerned have to deal with. What do you think these men and women are going to experience when they return to what they think is a "normal" life?? In five years time we will be dealing with the atrocities they experienced that will dwarf what the Viet Nam Veterans are STILL dealing with!

I know first hand what it's like to care for a person who is completely unable to comprehend what is going on and is unable in any way to communicate what desires they may have, let alone to even perform what one might call normal functions such as simply going to the bathroom. We've dealt with it for more than eight years and while I would never turn my back on caring for a loved one, I have to tell myself all the time that the reason I'm in this position is because I'm supposed to be learning something from this situation. I have yet to even raise my voice or treat the person badly, but I do sometimes feel that my life has been put on hold. I've conquered patience and understanding, but think I live my life through the one we care for. I raised my kids and now they want me to babysit for the grand-kids I so dearly love! There are days that I'm so worn out that I feel I'm 90 years old, and I'm NOT!

[avrdream]

27. A quote from his statement:

"This distinction and the threats to national security were stated clearly by Admiral McConnell as well as four of the eight Democratic members of the Senate Intelligence Committee. These members, Senators Feinstein, Mikulski, Bayh, and Bill Nelson, have extensive experience on intelligence matters and are respected champions of civil rights and liberties. They chose to give significant weight and deference to the intelligence community on FISA reform..."

What about the other four Democratic members? They obviously weren't worried about the supposed "threat" to national security.

UGH!

[zulchzulu]

28. Fuck him... he's a goddamn turncoat in Jefferson's eyes

He may as well go to Monticello and take a shit on Jefferson's desk. He can use a copy of the Constitution to wipe his closet Repug ass with.

Excuse...my ass...

[ima_sinnic]

30. effing dumb@$$, buys the terra terra terra BS & legitimizes the little prick

yet again.
ooooh, "al Qaeda" is comimg! I am soooo scared!
Look at what Bushit has done so far with his "expanded powers." ZIP, NADA, ZILCH. We have had NOT ONE real "terrorist" in court or in custody--if they had caught or foiled even ONE, the propaganda mills would be running overtime.
Now they're planting all this crap about an "imminent threat"--as if they somehow can't stop it! All that "intelligence," billions, no trillions, spent so far on their phony-ass "war on terror," yet we are still going to have our asses handed to us by a bunch of malcontent dirtbags who somehow are "coming here" even though we are "fighting them" "over there."
Anybody who takes anything * and his ministers of propaganda have to say seriously should have his/her head examined. "al Qaeda" is a cleverly crafted, all-purpose boogeyman. The "War on Terror" is a catchy Madison Ave. jingle. "Terrorist threats" are propaganda mill creations.
A parallel can be drawn with Katrina: the "intelligence" was there for days ahead of time, and the need for action, and the kinds of things that had to be done, were obvious. There was nothing complicated about it. The little shit did NOT say, oh, we know the city is about to be devastated, we have this plan to get everybody out. They do NOT "respond," they only "strategize" about their next heist.

Webb is a dumb@$$ whose way of thinking is so conventional he is a joke. He apparently doesn't question anything the Liar in Chief tells him. I'm sorry I supported the sorry-@$$ FOOL.

[Hippo_Tron]

31. I don't doubt that McConnell told Webb all of this, I just question McConnell

I would like an explanation as to how 6 years after 9/11 we all of a sudden FISA needs to be amended to allow surveillance without a warrant.

[LeFleur1]

32. Fighting For?

What is Webb's son fighting for if not freedoms?

There may be some Attorney Generals and Presidents who could be trusted with such a wide open bill on spying, but the ones we have now are not those who could be trusted. And I really can't think of any I would trust to use this spying without warrant only against true enemies.
Webb is a REpublican. It's a sign of how far right this country has swayed in the fall from democracy that he could win on the Democratic ticket.