Theoretically the problem is not guns

[Fresh_Start]

the problem is assholes (who use guns)

I'm way more in favor of banning assholes.
But I think its more difficult than controlling guns.
Someone might not have been an asshole until they lost a job, or girlfriend or ...

Here's a suggestion.
If you have a gun and the gun is used in any crime - you go to jail for a minimum of 5 years whether or not you did the crime because you aided the crime by not adequately controlling your gun.

If you are involved in a shooting, you go to jail for a minimum of 10 years if anyone other than an actual criminal was shot.

So if you get excited and shoot a teenage boy coming to your door at night looking for assistance with his car, you go to jail for life. You were irresponsible.

If your child gets injured or injures another child with your firearm, you go to jail for life you are not fit to be either a parent or in the general public

[SteppingRazor]

1. Eek. I can't agree with that.

Penalize people for breaking the law, not for being party to a tragic accident. I mean, seriously, you want to send a grieving mother to jail after her kid dies?

[Fresh_Start]

5. if its her fault, yes

she should go to jail.

Or maybe you think that after the man murdered his wife, he shouldn't have to go to jail because he's a grieving widower

[SteppingRazor]

6. But that doesn't even make any sense.

One's an accident, the other's intentional.

[Fresh_Start]

9. she intentionally did not secure her gun

she made an irresponsible choice just like a drunk driver makes an irresponsible choice.

Sorry, no sympathy she doesn't deserve it.

[Fresh_Start]

7. the law requires you to safely secure your gun

so they are indeed lawbreakers who participated in the crime.

We have a gunsafe.
Other people leave their guns unsecured.

They are asking for trouble, why should I feel any sympathy for them

[SteppingRazor]

12. The law does what now?

Look, I'm a responsible gunowner myself, and my guns are all safely secured, but ths is a matter of responsible gun ownership, not law. There is no law requiring you to stow your gun in a secure location. If there is, please cite it and I'll gladly take this back, but I feel like you're just making stuff up to try to prove your point here.

[Fresh_Start]

14. In california you are responsible if your gun is

used in the commission of a crime and you did not secure your weapon.

[SteppingRazor]

15. OK, I'm certainly aware of the standard CAP laws...

weve got one here in Florida too, but your OP goes beyond that. You state:

"If your child gets injured or injures another child with your firearm, you go to jail for life you are not fit to be either a parent or in the general public."

That suggests that, even if you have a gun secured in a locked box, with a trigger lock on, and someone gets to it and uses it, you're still liable. I just can't agree with that.

[Fresh_Start]

17. I didn't say that was the law.

I said I wished that was the law.

There's too much excuse for irresponsible gun use or ownership.

In california, leaving a loaded gun where a child under 18 can access it, is a crime. Whether or not, anyone is injured.
Guns have to stored in a safe or with a trigger lock.

I can accept responsible gun ownership, I shouldn't have to accept ownership without qualification.

You should have to be licensed.
You should have to retest for licensing every year.
You should be subject to inspection.
You should be subject to penalties for abuse

[maxsolomon]

2. another theory says the problem is guns

in the absence of them this crime is implausable. certainly its magnitude is.

assholes have been with us from the beginning of our species.

guns have not.

[jobycom]

18. An argument against that (and I'm for more gun control)

Is that people have committed some horrific mass murders without them. There was the plane blown up in the 50s by the man trying to (and succeeding) kill his mother. There was the school in the 20s in Bath, MI, (I think) blown up to avenge a personal grievance. Over 40 innocents killed in each of those. Then there's McVeigh.

I agree guns make these events easier, but nothing will stop them. The crimes gun control will stop are the impulse killings. Knives and bricks take a commitment in a fight most people aren't willing to make. You have to get bloody, and you have to see, feel, and hear the victim's struggles to live. Fewer people are capable of that. Guns are point and click devices, and all the mess and fuss and remorse is left until it's way too late to stop the crime.

[Radio_Lady]

3. ... But what shall we do with those gun owners who kill themselves?

Are they punished enough? (Sorry, but I don't believe in heaven or hell...)

[BushOut06]

4. Sure, that law has worked really well in Florida

Florida already has a law that imposes mandatory prison sentencing for crimes involving a gun, it's called the 10-20-Life law. Can't help but notice that crime is going up, not down, here in Florida.

[virginia mountainman]

8. Thanks for calling me

and my family assholes....

And I thought we Democrats had gotten over attacking gun owners, after all 80,000,000 gun owners THAT DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING....

But they do vote...and they DO swing elections...

EDIT, to the original poster

[Fresh_Start]

10. I didn't call you an asshole

I called people like yesterdays shooter an asshole.

I didn't say all gunowners are asshole.
We own guns. But we don't use them to get even with the world over our perceived grievances.

[jody]

11. And you go to jail if someone steals your car and uses it when committing a crime. n/t

[Fresh_Start]

13. cars are not intended as weapons

thats a gun's only purpose. Its not equivalent

If you give someone AIDS because you knowingly had unprotected sex with them, you are in fact a criminal. In both cases, you unleashed death on an innocent victim.

The car is not 'death'.

[jody]

16. Gun's only purpose is as a weapon! What about the two Olympic models at the DU link below?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3219218&mesg_id=3219454

[Fresh_Start]

21. has anyone been shoot with one of those in the commission

of a crime?

I'm thinking you're pulling a stinking "red herring" out.

[jody]

24. But you said guns are used only as a weapon! n/t

[Fresh_Start]

25. "red herring" alert

Jody loves her red herrings.

I'm surprised you didn't mention staple guns as well.
or airsoft guns or paintball guns.

[jody]

26. You made a statement and I presented facts proving you wrong. Do you now think you can win with

ad hominem attacks? :rofl:

[Fresh_Start]

27. your car analogy and your target pistol

analogy are both red herrings.

A target pistol has less in common with guns than does a paintball gun or an airsoft gun.
Both of those are intended for human targets.

[jody]

29. Do you actually believe a target pistol is not a gun? n/t

[Warpy]

19. The problem is also those enormous ammo clips

that take just a second to reload.

If the little bastard had to reload slowly or more frequently, they might have been able to tackle him and save some lives.

[Fresh_Start]

20. they don't help

okay what if there was no gun ban, there was merely a ban on ammunition.

<10, enough for self defense not enough to go crazy

[slackmaster]

23. The proper term is magazines

Please.

[ieoeja]

22. 50% of Americans need to carry guns.

As we work as prison guards watching the other 50%.

[ellisonz]

28. I don't think you know what "theoretically" means in this context.