Monica Goodling: Look at THIS picture!

[grasswire]

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

1. Surgery?

That picture lacks equilibrium.

[grasswire]

2. perhaps there are some who don't recognize this woman

Susan McDougal, imprisoned, mistreated and humiliated by Kenneth Starr because she refused to tell untruths about Bill Clinton.

That's mean. Shackled, that's mean.

Talking to that nice Congressional committee isn't mean at all.

[bleever]

3. Right on, grasswire.

Thanks for the thread.

[grasswire]

5. seven weeks in solitary confinement, that's mean

seventeen months in confinement, that's mean

[tblue]

10. Did you hear what they did to her? Dressed her in RED prison garb, the color designated for mothers

who had killed their children. And all the prisoners & guards assumed that's what she was there for, and they treated her like dirt. THAT'S Republicans for ya!

[WiseButAngrySara]

39. Oh please, this can't be true? Is it? How inhuman. Links? ....n/t

[IndianaGreen]

43. The Director of the film "Crash" is going to shoot a movie about McDougal and Whitewater

The producers are thinking to casting Charlize Theron as Susan McDougal. The film is expected to be completed within two years.

[Suich]

4. One of my heroines!!!

Not sure what your post means but that's not unusual!

:hi:

[grasswire]

6. it means this

Monica Goodling has refused to testify before Congress because members of the committee might be mean to her.

Susan McDougal was subjected to much meaner tactics at the hands of Republicans who were after Clinton's hide.

Buck up, Goodling.

[Suich]

Got it!

Thanks! :blush:

[babylonsister]

20. Great analogy; treat Goodling like McDougall was treated. Sounds

good to me!

[NYC]

7. Did you see the movie,

"The Hunting of the President"? I think that was the name of the movie.

Very sad about Susan MacDougal.

[grasswire]

8. the movie was from the book of the same name

...written by Joe Conason and Gene Lyons. It's worth a re-read or getting the DVD to remind ourselves how horrible Republicans were to our president, our first lady, and his people. They accused Bill and Hillary of actually having a Christmas tree decorated with condoms in the WH, and accused Bill of molesting his daughter, and so many other UGLY things.

[Lasher]

9. That 12 year witch hunt was a bargain at only $91.3 million

And they managed to come up with one whole misdemeanor conviction.

[Suich]

11. I didn't know they even came up with that!

What was the misdemeanor?

[grasswire]

12. I think someone in the Clinton administration...

...accepted a small gift that was unallowed. Some tickets or something.

[Suich]

13. Everytime I hear the talking heads yak about

"all the Clinton White House scandals", it makes me a little bit nuts! I've noticed lately that hannity is making a big deal out of something Sandy Berger did with documents, removing them from the WH, or something. I bit desperate, I think!

[Lasher]

16. Berger was not a member of the Clinton administration when he did that.

He was prepping for a testimony and stupidly smuggled documents out of the archives, I guess to take home and study. It just happened a year or two ago.

Hannity and his pals are so desperate to create a myth of corruption in Clinton's administration, they're citing something that happened long after Clinton left office. It's the old 'everybody does it' ploy, trying to make it look like Junior is no worse than everybody else.

Well guess what, everybody doesn't do it. As I posted upthread, there was only one misdemeanor criminal conviction of any Clinton administration official for anything that was done while they were in office. No other convictions whatsoever.

Maybe Hannity would like to compare that record with the 32 convictions of Saint Ronnie & Poppy's administrations.

http://www.bartcop.com/convictions.htm

[PassingFair]

27. COPIES of documents...

...and from what I've been able to glean, the pukes
don't want what's in those documents to be made public,
or he'd be charged.

[donsu]

31. and I believe they were documents that he had previously written

how can you steal your own words

[Polemicist]

28. Fox just did an hour long "special report" on Berger...

Titled, the "Berger Scandal" or some other such nonsense. I only caught a small portion of the program, I wish I could have seen the entire show. Seems that idiot Congressman Davis, the ranking Republican on the House Reform Committee that Waxman now chairs, did an "investigation" of the situation with Sandy Berger and the missing documents. It was finished just as the Democrats took control of Congress and Waxman let them issue the report.

It's one of the stupidest "conspiracy theories" that the GOP wingnuts have ever dreamed up. Predicated on their speculation as to what documents did Berger destroy and who told him to do it, in order to cover up Clinton's "misdeeds" regarding Osama Bin Laden.

The only problem with their whole deal, is the Justice Department investigated and found no documents ever went missing. For the National Archives doesn't ever allow originals of any documents into the hands of anyone but National Archives employees. You request copies and they are provided to you in reading rooms, and then you turn the copies back in after reviewing them. Berger took some of the copies out of the archives when he left. A no-no as they were classified documents.

It was impossible for Sandy Berger to have hidden anything or to have destroyed originals of any documents he reviewed at the National Archives. BECAUSE SANDY BERGER NEVER EVER TOUCHED OR CAME NEAR THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS. The National Archives told the FBI that and the Justice Department spokesperson told the world that in explaining the plea bargain arrangement arrived at with Berger's attorney.

The wingnuts and FoxNews are trying to say that the 9/11 Commission couldn't really do their job and couldn't really see that everything was actually Clinton's fault, because they say that Sandy Berger stole Clinton Administration documents from the National Archives. Which of course was impossible for him to have done.

There just is no lie too big for these assholes to tell.

[Lasher]

32. Which Faux pundit covered the story, Oliver North?

What a perfect person to accuse Berger of destroying original documents he never had posession of!

:rofl:

North was tried in 1988 in relation to his activities while at the National Security Council. He was indicted on sixteen felony counts and on May 4, 1989, he was initially convicted of three: accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents (by his secretary, Fawn Hall, on his instructions).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North#Iran-Contra_affair

[Lasher]

37. Is this it?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,262687,00.html

[Polemicist]

44. Yep, that's the program...

I only caught about the last 10 minutes, as I was channel surfing when I stumbled onto the "documentary". As painful as it is to watch FoxNoise, I watched the last 10 minutes.

Your link addressed my primary question, did somebody change their story about Berger only viewing copies of documents. That doesn't appear to be the case. They just got a guy who wasn't involved in the investigation to vent his frustration as to his being shut out.

I'm not a professional archivist. And I don't know any professional archivists. But common sense will tell you a few things that FoxNews doesn't tell their viewers. First, all documents that are turned over to the archives, are cataloged and given identifying codes imprinted upon the original document itself. For there is no other system which would allow for future retrieval of said documents among the trillions of pages stored there. For instance, the archivist's code for these might be WH/NSA/TTF/98/5/10/BinLaden. Which would be White House, National Security Adviser, Terrorism Task Force, May 5th, 1998, and the subject matter, BinLaden. Or it might just be a series of numbers who stand for the above. But everything that enters the Archives must be encoded, or no one would ever be able to find anything in the future.

Secondly, the primary goal of the archives is to preserve documents for future generations to study. So more than likely, they are all microfilmed. The originals are stored and anyone wishing to view these documents in the future, are provided printed copies of the microfilm copy of the documents. Nobody handles these originals. Sweat, body oils, etc will destroy documents over time, especially plain paper. So they aren't going to allow anyone to handle the documents, that isn't a professional archivists. And they likely wear latex gloves when handling the originals. Plus, no one can steal a document when they are only given printouts of the microfilm copies, or allowed to view the documents on a microfilm reader.

Your local library preserves newspapers this way. Your local court house preserves deeds and land records this way. It's impossible in my mind, for the primary archive for the United States, to use inferior methods to preserve documents, to those used at a local county library.

So, with the system of coding documents and not allowing anyone access to the originals, the Archives can be 100% positive nothing was taken and no documents went missing. So if the 9/11 commission requested the same documents, they got copies of the same originals, just like Sandy Berger did.

You really have to be very stupid to be a wingnut. I guess we have to do something with our nation's idiots. I just wish we didn't elect them to Congress like that colossal idiot Tom Davis.

[cascadiance]

25. And if they try to make something of Juanita Broderick OR Vince Foster

Remind them of Margie Schoedinger, who for Bush equivalences BOTH of their situations regarding Clinton combined together, and the MSM won't even burp about it!

[Suich]

41. Wow! I just googled Margie Schoedinger.

I never heard about her EVER! How did you know about her? This is scary stuff...

[cascadiance]

45. I probably wouldn't have known if I hadn't been watching alternative press at the time earlier...

... about a couple of years ago when her allegations came out, a FEW sites covered her like radioleft.com, etc. This was about the same time that these same sites were the ONLY sites covering the initial news of the Valerie Plame outing too!

Then if you kept googling her, you'd have found the buried story of her being found dead a year or so later with a gunshot wound to her head as an "apparent suicide".

And they do note that she was an "aquaintance" of Bush in his earlier years too! Hard to tell if she wasn't a little whacked and the story wasn't true. But I think the news media had basically about the same information about her and Bush as they had about Juanita Broderick, and guess who got covered by the "liberal" media!

For me, it wasn't whether the story was true or not (though each day as Bush's escapades become revealed, I have less doubt that it might be true). The real issue for me is the imbalance and completely unacceptable coverage of what this president has been done by what is called a "news" media in this country, but what is functioning more and more as a propaganda arm each day.

[lolly]

46. Estes?

I think it was somebody named Estes--in Transportation?--who accepted a few tickets to a pro basketball game.

That was definitely worth spending 80 million dollars in taxpayer money to collar.

[Lasher]

14. Clinton's Housing Secretary Henry G. Cisneros pled guilty to misleading FBI agents

Cisneros had misled FBI agents about money he had given to a former mistress. There was no underlying crime. He pled guilty to the misdemeanor in 1999 and paid a fine for it. Yet the taxpayer-funded witch hunt went on until last year!

Neither Clinton nor any other member of his administration was convicted of any crime committed while they were in office.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2223218

http://www.offthekuff.com/mt/archives/006183.html

[Suich]

15. Thanks, Lasher!

Pretty disgusting, isn't it?

:hi:

[Lasher]

17. Glad for the opportunity to pitch in. This is one of my favorite subjects.

Check out my post upthread about Sandy Berger. I can't believe right wingers are stupid enough to compare Junior or Poppy or Saint Gipper to Clinton - on any category whatsoever. Junior has already come up with more administration official convictions than Clinton.

And how about the economy? The S&P 500 gained an average of 15.86% during each of Clinton's 8 years in office, based on the closing price on the last trading day of each year. During Junior's six years so far the average has been just 2.59%. Annual gains combined for all of Junior's six years has been 15.55%, which is not equal to Clinton's average for just one year! You have to go clear back to the Great Depression to find numbers that bad. And they have the nerve to single out one year for the relatively meaningless Dow and crow about that.

Sorry, I digress. I get carried away sometimes. :blush:

[spooky3]

24. glad you digressed--those stock mkt #s are important

there has been only one really good year and one moderate good year for the stock mkt since Jr. took over, despite record profits and stagnant wages for workers.

[Lasher]

34. And there hasn't been an all-time high close of the S&P since the Clinton years

This is an extremely noticeable, hair on fire statistic that the corporate news media never mentions. Not even when they show a news clip of Junior saying the tax cuts are working. :mad:

Know where those S&P 500 statistics came from? I took it on myself to look the source data up and develop a spreadsheet where I produced them. I was surprised that I couldn't find any analysis like that on the internet.

Here's another statistic I developed by chasing down source data and crunching the numbers on a spreadsheet: During Clinton's 8 years Medicare Part B premiums increased a total of 43.08% and there was no change in the deductible. During Junior's 8 years premiums shall have increased 140.44% and the deductible 53.28%. In this projection I assumed the 2008 deductible would increase at the same rate as the premium that year.

Source data:

CRS Report for Congress - Medicare Part B Premiums dated September 14, 2004

Substantially Higher Part B Premiums in 2007 As Medicare Means Testing Starts - TREA Senior Citizens League article dated March 2006

Largest Increase Ever Forecast For Medicare Part B Premiums in 2008 - TREA Senior Citizens League article dated February 2007

[spooky3]

35. wow, great work, thanks!

[Bandit]

33. What about Webb Hubble?

I was under the impression he was charged with a felony.

[Lasher]

36. Hubble's crime was committed before he joined the Clinton administration

Assistant Attorney-General Webster Hubbell was convicted of embezzling funds from Rose Law Firm
before his federal appointment. In the spirit of making apples to apples comparisons I don't think we should consider crimes that were committed before or after officials served in an administration. Unless Rush, O'Liely, and Hannity want to start counting the DUI convictions that both Junior and Lord Vader have on their records.

Thanks for the effort to keep me honest. I appreciate that.

Happy Easter.

[Spiffarino]

18. Damn those bastards to Hell.

Every time I think about what they did to that woman I want to strangle a Republican. What she went through because she wouldn't lie...there's no corner of Hell too horrible for the Ken Starrs, the Mellon Scaifes, and the rest of the homunculi who bubbled up from the right wing sewer to destroy so many people.

[enough]

19. Thanks, grasswire. k&r

[Dinger]

21. Is She Still In Jail? This Woman Is A Hero

Her book "The Woman Who Wouldn't Talk" was one of the first political/current events books I ever bought.

[spooky3]

23. according to Wiki, no, and Pres. Clinton pardoned her

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_McDougal

[Suich]

42. I just saw her tonight; it was an interview Greta VanSustern (sp?) did.

She looked and sounded fine. Someone is making a movie about Whitewater that should be out in about 2 years. Susan thinks Kevin Bacon should play Mark Geragos! Yeah, she definitely got screwed.

[cassiepriam]

22. I too have been thinking of Susan Mc, who was jailed for refusing to testify.

All of them were threatened within an inch of their lives
if they did not start talking.

Now the repugs can simply refuse to talk.

[Supersedeas]

29. Difference: now we have a employee of the damned Justice Dept who refuses to testify

a Justice Dept employee who does not want to keep Congress informed of her DUTIES b/c her testimony might incriminate her.

a Justice Dept. full of CRIMINALS!! And the Media is sitting on their hands.

[cassiepriam]

30. Remember, only Dems have to follow the rules, Repugs are above the law.

They ARE the law, according to Delay and Rove.

And all these crooks are on our payroll.

[Straight Shooter]

26. Very good, grasswire. We must always bear in mind what we're up against.

Excellent post. :thumbsup:

It's time to fight fire with fire.

[DesertRat]

38. Here's a good video interview with Susan McDougal

Her description of the degradation of jail is horrible. Everyone should listen to (or read this interview)She was locked up on murderers row...for civil contempt! :grr:

From Truthdig:
http://www.truthdig.com/interview/item/20070116_susan_mcdougal_the_woman_who_wouldnt_talk/

[WiseButAngrySara]

40. I've watched 3 parts of it. It is wonderful. She is a heroine,

and why? She simply told the truth. How evil this nation has become.

Thank you for posting this.