This line will unite Kucinich supporters and detractors....Serious!

[Flabbergasted]

Kucinich Comes Back for ‘08
March 1st, 2007
Kucinich Comes Back for ‘08
By Daniel Sturm, In These Times
Posted on February 28, 2007, Printed on February 28, 2007
http://www.alternet.org/story/48535/

To his supporters, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) represents the sane voice of the Democratic Party — a man who reads books, gives intelligent speeches and acts on principle. To his detractors, Kucinich is a small man on an ego trip, too radical to be elected.

Kucinich was the only Democratic candidate in the 2004 presidential primaries to vote against the war in Iraq. His 90-day plan to end the occupation was dismissed by the party’s centrist leaders and he came in fourth in the primaries — behind Kerry, Edwards and Dean.

Three years later, the Iraq war has cost the lives of more than 3,000 American servicemen and untold thousands of Iraqis. And once again Kucinich, relentless in his call for withdrawing troops, is vying for the nation’s top job. “My country calls me to action,” he told a cheering crowd after announcing his candidacy on December 12 in Cleveland.

Kucinich first gained prominence in 1977 when, at age 31, he was elected mayor of Cleveland, becoming the youngest mayor ever elected in a major American city. During his campaign, Kucinich promised to save the struggling city-owned Municipal Light Co. When the company’s private competitor tried to force the city to sell, Mayor Kucinich refused. In response, the banks cut off credit and the City of Cleveland went into default. In 1979, Kucinich lost his bid for re-election. Years later, the Cleveland City Council would honor him for “having the courage and foresight to refuse to sell the city’s municipal electric system” — and saving ratepayers more than $100 million.

During his 15-year hiatus from politics, he worked as a TV commentator, media consultant, college professor and public utility consultant. Kucinich re-launched his political career in 1993, with the campaign symbol of a light bulb and the slogan, “Because he was right!” He won a seat in the Ohio state Senate in 1994 and was elected to Congress two years later.


(see told ya)

more

http://blog.pdamerica.org/?p=1007

[bpeale]

1. a man who criticizes other democrats

no thanks.

[Flabbergasted]

2. His criticism is well founded and necessary. Or shall we walk in lockstep?

[bpeale]

3. its bad enough that repukes do it

do we have to do it to ourselves. we don't have to worry about the repukes eating us, we eat our own.

NO THANKS. he lost me with that one criticism.

[Flabbergasted]

4. Which one?

[bpeale]

6. when he criticized fellow dems

that backed out of a debate on faux comedy channel

[Flabbergasted]

8. I agree with you on that I must admit.

[DCKit]

5. Sorry

But I agree. No more BOTS. Our democracy would be worth nothing if the Dems turned into Repuke robots.

[AnOhioan]

10. So, critical speech is now verboten??

If that is what the Democratic Party is turning into, I can echo your comment....no thanks

[LWolf]

11. Only when such criticism is valid.

There is nothing sacred about wearing a "D." Respect must still be earned, and criticism can still be deserved.

No politician or candidate earns a free ride because of a party designation. The political donkey is not sacred.

[Dr Fate]

12. Conservative DEMS criticize "far left" DEMS all the time.

My ONLY beef w/ DK is over the FOX news flap- other than that, he is cool.

The problem is media bias is my #1 issue- we cant get ANYTHING done until we fully address it, so DK did kind of lose me there.

Still, DK is a good DEM, and he doesn't criticize other DEMS anymore than anyone else.

[ProudDad]

25. but...

You're doing that.

You're criticizing a fellow Dem...

[bpeale]

32. no, i'm simply not considering him at all in the presidential race

for me, he is talking into the wind.

[zalinda]

7. I can't agree

I don't think Kucinich is "To his detractors, Kucinich is a small man on an ego trip, too radical to be elected." I don't think he is on an ego trip, Nader is on an ego trip.

But, Kucinich could never get the dem nomination, much less be elected President. You don't have to be for him or against him. The fact is, that we are at war, whether we like it or not, and a non-threatening person will not be elected. In different times maybe there would be a chance, but not now.

zalinda

[robcon]

9. Perfect description

"Kucinich is a small man on an ego trip, too radical to be elected."

His only claim to fame is that he's running for president - without popular support, without money and just to generate awareness of his name. Otherwise he'd be an almost unknown Congressman.

[nealmhughes]

15. I must take exception to that characterization of DK as "almost unknown,"

save for his Presidential ambitions. He is extrememly popular in the PDA wing of the Party, along with environmentalist, peace and labor advocates.

His daily one minute speeches on the House floor are pure passion, not just idiotic talking point reiterations of whatever Rove gave out at 7 am for them to consume, comme Gingrey, Foxx, Opie, et al.

Dennis is an idealogue. That is dangerous to status quo, get along with everyone, moderation in all things pro-corporate Barbie and Ken Democrats.

[LWolf]

13. I think he IS threatening.

That's why he gets so little support in his own party, even though his platform is better than the rest and his consistency on issues is, too.

He threatens the status quo. He threatens the system that benefits the haves at the expense of the have-nots.

None of his detractors ever beat him on message; they desperately cling to the "unelectable" propaganda, because they don't really want the status quo to change.

[pnwmom]

14. It doesn't matter how "right" he was or is. He didn't come close in 2004,

and he won't this time around either. We want our strongest candidate up against the Republican nominee in 2008, and Kucinich is not that person.

[mmonk]

16. I say its accurate.

I still remember all the times I've been told about how the so called moderates needed to keep being voted in so the progressives could have chairs and power. Then alot of that power was taken away by the leadership right before the election with the impeachment is off the table stuff. I think back of the justices and judges getting onto our court system with little or no opposition. I'm a very frustrated man because my vote is always taken advantage of and most of the time, I've been deceived. One thing is for sure, Dennis has more integrity than all those with their broken promises.

[Hippo_Tron]

17. Judging by my own observations confirmed by Will Pitt's statements, Kucinich is politically inept

And I don't support people who are politically inept because they either don't care about winning or can't win.

[DemBones DemBones]

22. Seems to me that Will Pitt sold himself to Kucinich as a

guy who'd written books and could do the job of public relations man or whatever he was supposed to be.

In fact, as I recall Will's comments, he had NO experience in that sort of thing and did it poorly.

Does trusting Will Pitt's assurances that he could do the job show that Kucinich is politically inept or show that Kucinich is willing to give a chance to a person who seems to have promise?


While we're discussing hiring by candidates, let's remember, too, that John Edwards hired two bloggers who had written anti-Catholic vitriol and blasphemy on their blogs. When their writings were exposed, Edwards refused to fire them. They both ended up quitting but Edwards never seemed to get it that by not firing them and strongly rejecting their writings, he was showing that he cared nothing about Christians. I believe Edwards is a Southern Baptist, which could explain his tolerance of anti-Catholicism, but no one with a Christian background could seriously argue in support of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, as posted by one of the women.

[Hippo_Tron]

26. Bloggers and Press Secretary are on an entirely different level

And I don't believe Will would be offended if I said that Kucinich shouldn't have hired someone with no experience. Furthermore as I recall from Will's comments, many of the other senior staffers on the campaign were also lacking experience.

If Kucinich was being backed by some very savvy advisers or was politically savvy himself then I might believe that he could engineer an entirely grassroots victory like Wellstone did in his first Senate race. But as far as I can tell Dennis isn't in it to win, he's in it to make a point and I don't support candidates who aren't in it to win.

[DemBones DemBones]

42. Not going to acknowledge that Edwards screwed up

big-time? Kucinich may have hired inexperienced people but he didn't hire bigots and then try to defend them.

I disagree with your assessment of Kucinich's political savvy and I disagree that he doesn't intend to win.

It's odd that you respect Wellstone and not Kucinich, given their similarities in ideology.

Since you don't like Kucinich, why post in Kucinich threads? Is it a good idea to try to bring down Dem candidates? For myself, I decided that it wasn't and I stay out of the Clinton/Obama/Edwards threads.

[Hippo_Tron]

48. I'm challenging the notion that people don't support him because he's short...

or because he's too progressive, or whatever other reasons. Wellstone and Kucinich shared similar positions on some issues but Wellstone knew the game of politics a lot better than Kucinich does. Kucinich did horribly in 2004 and I don't see why he would do any better in 2008. His lack of willingness to run for higher office in Ohio suggests to me that he doesn't think that he could be elected Governor or Senator of Ohio. If he can't be elected statewide in Ohio then I don't see how he could win a general election considering that Ohio will likely be the key battleground state again in 2008.

[rinsd]

35. Well here are Will Pitt's words on the subject.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2899813&mesg_id=2899813

The fact that Kucinich also hired two campaign managers in 2003/2004 who had little or no experience back that up.

One manager, Maver, had zero experience and went from advance team member to national campaign manager.

Another manager, Jelinek hadn't run a campaign in years and nothing on a national level.

Swanson had press secretary experience but nothing for campaigns.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1124-13.htm

The most experience seems to be at advisor where the guy worked on Nader's campaign.

The staffing choices seem based more ideological symmetry than experience and it shows.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. If you vote for Kucinich, you're voting for a progresssive Democrat.

There is no other progressive candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Look at the records of the other candidates and listen to their speeches and you'll see it's true.

What good is a DINO President?

What's gone wrong with the Democratic Party that makes it breed DINO presidential candidates?

[Rusty MacHenry]

19. Well then I don't want a PROGRESSIVE Democrat

As you would call it. This country dosen't elect president that governs from the far right and espically the far left, centrists can reach out to more voters cause they call out on both sides of the aisle left and right and that's what I want.

I'm a conservative Democrat and proud of it and I want a President that will govern in the center and if that makes me a DINO then so be it. Kucinich lost be when he's bitching about his own party and I don't like it. The GOP does it and I hate it. If Dennis dosen't like how the party governs then leave.

Sorry everyone I won't tolerate this, I will never vote for this man, Edwards is my guy.

[Solon]

20. I assume you feel the same way about DLCers and some other "Moderates"...

that attack more liberal or outgoing democrats like Howard Dean?

[Rusty MacHenry]

21. I don't condone the DLC

Although I like some of the members, it's the corporate wing and the party and that totally turns me off. And I don't like how they attack Dean. Although I think he's too liberal for my taste he has done alot in rebuilding the party to what it is today and I like and respect that. He is the one that gave the Dems Congress back, not Rahm Emanuel.

[DemBones DemBones]

23. Are you aware this is a site for progressives, not conservatives?

From the DU Rules:

"Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates."

I personally don't object to your being a conservative but you should not be telling us not to be progressives.

[Rusty MacHenry]

24. Then try to get me banned

I don't know what else to tell you but get rid of me
But i'm not breaking rules, i'm not talking smack about Democrats and i'm not condoneing Republicans. I'm not starting flame wars or saying anything durogatory. If you don't like it because i'm a conservative Democrat then tough. I'm still a Democrat and that's all what counts.

So I like Edwards, so what? i'm not a true Democrat if i'm not supporting Kucinich or Clark for President.

Get off my back about what type of Dem I am, i'm still a Democrat at heart.

You don't like me still then alert the mods. My life won't come tumbling down just because I get banned from a message board just because i'm a centrist Dem.

Why do you care what type of Democrat I am, i'm stll a Dem just because i'm not a quote on quote "progressive" dosen't mean I have no business on this board, that ain't right man because I have every right to be on this board as the rest of everybody. I am a Democrat and all I want is to come here and talk politics with other Democrats, I don't deserve to be singled out just because i'm a centrist.

I'm not bothering you Dem Bones so back off, i'm not breaking any rules and I don't pose a threat to you

[Greyhound]

30. "This country dosen't elect president that governs from the far right..."

Verb tense problems aside, just where have you been living for the last 30 years?

Do the names Raygun or Bush ring any bells? How about Roosevelt (for an example from the left)?
:kick:

[Hippo_Tron]

27. Depends on your definition of progressive

Clinton, Obama, Edwards, and Richardson have all done things that I consider progressive.

[Greyhound]

31. Can you name any of them?

Personally, I don't know very much about what Obama or Edwards have, or have not done, but Senator Clinton hasn't done much of anything in office and Governor Richardson, among other things is the man that decided it was a good idea to out-source all of his state's information centers to India.

So, either I've missed them or you are using a very different definition of progressive.
:kick:

[Freddie Stubbs]

33. What in the world has Kucinich accomplished in his last ten years in Congress?

He seems to be big on speeches, but short on accomplishments (no pun intended).

[Solon]

34. You could say that of ANY democrat in the House...

Democrats haven't had power in the House of Representatives for the past 10 years, the MOST Democrats have been able to accomplish is to slow down the conservative agenda of the Republicans, that's about it. This isn't a criticism, they were a minority party in the House, so they could only do so much, you can't criticize ONE Democratic member of the house for "no accomplishments" without criticizing all the others that were members in the same time period.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. Well I'll start with Richardson

Raised New Mexico's minimum wage to $7.50 an hour

Outlawed discrimination against homosexuals in New Mexico

Extended health benefits to domestic partners of state employees by domestic partners by executive order.

He is currently trying to push the legislature to extend equal rights to homosexual couples

Signed a bill legalizing medical marijuana

Took the initiative to try and negotiate a settlement in Darfur

Traveled to North Korea to discuss nuclear energy

Before I go any further and talk about the rest of the candidates, I want to know if these things meet your definition of progressive.

[DemBones DemBones]

45. OK, but Richardson did all that as GOVERNOR, not as a

member of Congress, so you can't make a fair comparison between what he did as governor and what Kucinich has done as a Congressman. Kucinich's progressive bills are often blocked by DINOs in Congress.

Kucinich voted against the PATRIOT Act and against the authorization that allowed the war in Iraq. Any other candidate who did that?

Kucinich was speaking out against invading Iraq as early as February 2002, six months before the * crew rolled out their war plans. Any other candidate who did that?



Your list makes Richardson look progressive, but has Richardson announced that he's running? If not, I stand by my statement that Kucinich is the only progressive running.

If he has announced, I missed it. If he's running, I'll look into his other positions and his record.

[Hippo_Tron]

47. I'm not saying that Kucinich isn't progressive, I'm saying that others are progressive as well

And Richardson has stated that he is in the race. He just hasn't done a big official announcement event yet.

[Greyhound]

49. Sounds good so far to me. Comparisons between a Representative and a Governor are hard

and both have done things I wouldn't necessarily call progressive, but I'll definitely consider him if/when he announces.

I'll tell you one of the things I like most about DK is the fact that he has specific plans to make what he talks about happen. Governor Richardson's by-passing the legislature to extend domestic partnership benefits to state employees is a big plus with me as any progressive that gets in will have to fight both parties every day of his term.

[PVnRT]

28. LOL

"Everybody is a DINO except Kucinich!"

Give me a fucking break.

[robcon]

29. If everyone is a Dino except Kucinich...

then only 1% of Democrats are really Democrats. That's a f*cked up perspective, IMO.

[rinsd]

36. If he can't even run a campaign, I don't want him in charge of the country (nt)

[Flabbergasted]

38. How did he get elected to city council, mayor, and congress?

[rinsd]

39. Lord knows.

He won a 3 way race for mayor, barely survived a recall and lost his re-election bid.

He tried to run an an indepedent for Gov of OH but dropped out.

His 1st Congressional win is impressive but he hasn't had to really run against anybody since.

[DemBones DemBones]

40. If you know that much, you should also know that

Kucinich refused to sell Muny Light and the banks and the media pilloried him. That's why he lost his re-election bid.

Years later, the Cleveland Chamber of Commerce commended Kucinich for not selling Muny Light, acknowledging that he did the right thing for the people against tremendous opposition.

[rinsd]

41. So he lost because of the media 30 years ago...

...but he is able to win a Presidential contest in the media climate of today?

[DemBones DemBones]

43. Come on, you know I didn't say that, and if you've paid

ANY attention, you know the media will be pushing the GOP nominee in 2008, despite all the grief the present administration has brought.

So it's not just "Can Kucinich win a Presidential race?", it's "Can ANY Democrat win a Presidential race?"

[SaveElmer]

44. At the risk of seeming obsessive...

:-)

That is hardly the only reason for his defeat...though the CEI episode is the only solid accomplishment Kucinich supporters seem to be able to point to.

He was apparently unable to get along with virtually anyone in city government. He engaged in a series of childish squabbles with city councilmen and the Chief of Police...who he fired on Television..

His appointments were bizarre to say the least, including a teenager to a director position, and a 24 year old with 6 months as a stockbroker under his belt as city finance director...

His style was consistently confrontational and brusque, showing little ability to broker agreements in various factions of the city...

He lost because he was a poor mayor...

[DemBones DemBones]

46. I understand that OCD is a serious condition. nt

[Greyhound]

50. Oh, you know how stupid all those people in Ohio are, and what with DK

being such a slick huckster they didn't know what they were doing.:sarcasm: Certainly they aren't nearly as smart as his detractors, especially those SoCal sophisticates, you know.:eyes: