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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 05:14 PM
Original message
Giuliani's Ghosts
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 05:59 PM by AtomicKitten
The Ghost of Giuliani’s Political Past

By Theodore Hamm

Excerpts:

According to the latest Quinnipiac poll, if the 2008 election were held today Rudy Giuliani would be our next president. Given his stature as a media celebrity, the numbers are not surprising.

* snip *

Before starting the film, I received a flurry of hostile reactions—e.g., “Is this going to make me sicker than I already feel?” and “This is going to make me angry!” When the documentary ended, not one of my 35 students had a kind word for Giuliani. In fact, the most frequent question asked was a fearful one: “Do you really think he could win?”

Why is there such contempt for the man who never tires of reminding audiences of how he “saved” the city after 9/11? As “Giuliani Time” makes abundantly clear, it’s because in the eight years he reigned as New York City mayor leading up to 9/11, Giuliani ruled as a petty tyrant. And the most frequent target of his animosities was the city’s black population.

* snip *

As "Giuliani Time" makes abundantly clear, it's because in the eight years he reigned as New York City
mayor leading up to 9/11, Giuliani ruled as a petty tyrant. And the most frequent target of his animosities was the city's black population.

During his two terms, Giuliani’s two biggest policy initiatives—reducing welfare rolls and fighting crime—also antagonized the city’s low-income populations of color. His much-touted Workfare initiative amounted to an increase in the numbers of the city’s working poor, undercutting better-paying city jobs in the process. And as Village Voice reporter and Giuliani foe Wayne Barrett says in the film, “No one knows what happened to the 600,000 people” who disappeared from the welfare rolls during the Giuliani years.

And as Village Voice reporter and Giuliani foe Wayne Barrett says in the film, "No one knows what happened to the 600,000 people" who disappeared from the welfare rolls during the Giuliani years.

* snip *

By Sept. 10, 2001, Giuliani had pissed off wide swaths of New York City’s population, including free speech advocates, artists and middle-class liberals of all kinds. If we judge him based on his actions during his two terms in office, rather than by the two weeks after 9/11, the thought of Rudolph Giuliani becoming president should alarm most progressives. And for people of color in New York City and elsewhere, the prospect is terrifying.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070227_the_ghost_of_giulianis_political_past/



Giuliani Time trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUr-QP-pEZc&mode=related&search=

Note: the phrase "Giulinai time" comes from an extremely violent anal-rape-by-instrumentation of a black man named Abner Louima http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima

While Louima's hands were cuffed behind his back, Officer Volpe sodomized him with a plunger,
causing severe internal damage to his colon and bladder that required several operations to repair.
Volpe then walked through the precinct holding the bloody, excrement-stained instrument in his hand,
indicating that he had "broke a man down."

Louima's teeth were also badly damaged in the attack by having the plunger jammed into his mouth
This is what happens when a vengeful bastard tells his police force to "get tough" with minorities.

http://www.bartcop.com/
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm really,really hoping he gets the Repub nod
because we have so much shit to hammer him with.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Rudy was the "DON of NYC" during his tenure.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think NY'ers will come out in full force if Giuliani stays on top closer to the primaries.
Kind of like Arizonans with McCain.

I wonder, like the above poster, if one of those two wouldn't be the easiest GOP candidates to beat though. There's way too much to hit them both with for them ever to be successful, even with the GOP Lie Machine behind them.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I think he also will be hard-pressed to explain
Edited on Sun Mar-04-07 05:54 PM by AtomicKitten
his allowing Coulter to talk trash about the 9/11 widows without a peep.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Oh yeah.
As well as all the other injustices that the victims, their families, and the resurers have had to endure. And telling everyone that the air was safe to breath when it wasn't and they knew it wasn't. And, screwing up the rescue efforts that day by further segmenting the various forces on hand (interesting article here: http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0635,barrett,74322,6.html). And...
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. Good point AtomicKitten
Thanks for the thread

Kicked and recommended
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Not people in Manhattan — I can't speak for the other boroughs, but we
pretty much hated the bastard.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Sorry, my mistake. I wasn't clear.
I meant come out AGAINST them and tell the rest of the country the truth about them. I see the two as similar in that they both have some support that crosses party lines and appear to be a good "compromise" between the two sides. I want to stress "appear." Neither one is suited to the office of president and I think that those who know them best (NY'ers for Rudy and Arizonans for John) will make that well-known.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. He single-handedly saved New York City after 9/11?
So the NY Fire Department, NY Police Department, HazMat Response Crews, volunteers didn't do a damn thing!!!!!
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NDP Donating Member (375 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Guliani has mafia written all over him. By the way people talk about him, you'd think that
he "prevented" 9/11 from happening.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. It does sound that way... doesn't it? If he was so great he would had stopped 9/11
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. I hope that arrogant ass gets their nod. Numerous red states will be up for grabs if he does.
Good stuff. Rudy has more than enough baggage to suit our tastes! Just ask his ex-wife what a miserable scumbag he is.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. which ex-wife?
Ha. This guy is a virtual goldmine of material.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Don't forget the gay couple he lived with when his most recent ex kicked him out of the Gov Mansion!
Shocking!
:sarcasm:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. check out this list from FreeperVille
What's Wrong With Rudy Giuliani? Just About Everything. (A List To keep Track Of)
Rudy's own words and History.

Okay, let's start a new list. This list will include all of the issues on which Rudy Giuliani is wrong for the GOP. We have the famous Spiff/Narses list; but let's add some more known problems:

1.) Life Issues.
a.) Supports Roe vs. Wade (Called it good Constitutional law).
b.) Supports Abortion on Demand.
c.) Supports Partial Birth abortion (Has recently given NARAL talking points as an attempted recant. It is clear he still supports that right).
d.) Disagrees with Catholic Church's position that Abortion is murder.
e.) Supports taxpayer funded abortions.
f.) Supports Embryonic Stem Cell Research.
g.) Spouts-off Pro-Abortion talking points against abortion restrictions (Don't want women "put in jail").
h.) Opposes Parental Notification laws unless a judicial bypass is easily obtained (NARAL talking points which effectively nullify notification laws).
i.) Opposes Parental Consent laws.
j.) CELEBRATED anniversary of Roe vs. Wade.
k.) Celebrates Margaret Sanger as a hero.

2.) Gay Rights issues.
a.) Supports Homosexuality and Alternate Lifestyles as protected civil rights movements under the law.
b.) Opposes The Federal Marriage Amendment.
c.) Supports Gay Domestic Partnership/Civil Union laws.
d.) Opposes Defense of Marriage Act.
e.) Supports openly gay military.

3.) Immigration.
a.) Supports Amnesty for illegal immigrants (calls it "earned amnesty").
b.) Opposes border fence (prefers "electronic fence" - Pro-Amnesty talking point).
c.) Opposes tougher penalties for employers of illegal immigrants.
d.) Supports creating Amnesty cities; has openly defied immigration laws.

3.) First Amendment.
a.) Supports Campaign Finance Reform.
b.) Supports Hate Crimes Legislation.

4.) Second Amendment.
a.) Supports gun confiscation.
b.) Supports Assault Weapons ban.
c.) Supports frivolous lawsuits against gun manufacturers (filed one himself).
d.) Supports very strict gun registration and gun licensing.
e.) Links increased gun ownership to increased crime.
f.) Regularly uses tragedies to call for stricter gun control laws.
g.) Supports increase in FEDERAL gun control laws.
h.) Has no basic understanding of Second Amendment.

4.) Taxes
a.) Will not sign "No new taxes" pledge.
b.) Has openly called ruling out tax increases "pandering."
c.) Uses taxpayer monies to pay for Liberal Social programs, like abortion.

5.) Election Laws.
a.) Tried to thwart NY election laws to extend his tenure as Mayor.

6.) Executive Overreaching.
a.) Brought in and enforced smoking bans.
b.) Banned ferret ownership.
c.) Questionable appointments as Mayor.

7.) Judiciary.
a.) Believes Roe vs. Wade is good law.
b.) Believes Ginsberg is good Justice.
c.) Believes Second Amendment compels strict gun control.
d.) Believes Hate Crimes laws are consistent with First Amendment.
e.) Believes Campaign Finance Reform is consistent with First Amendment.
f.) Has very Liberal record of judicial appointments.
g.) Promises "strict constructionist" judges "like himself:" Pro-Roe, Anti-First and Second Amendment "strict constructionists."

8.) Environmental Issues.
a.) Supports "Progressive" environmental laws.
b.) Supports idea of human-caused Global Warming.

9.) Prior Endorsements.
a.) Endorsed Mario Cuomo.
b.) Endorsed by Liberal Party of NY.
c.) Refused Conservative Party compromise on Partial Birth Abortion required to get endorsement.
d.) Endorsed by NARAL.
e.) Endorsed Clinton's policies as similar to his own.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Oddly enough, based on his issues, I wouldn't mind him so much if he wasn't such a
self-serving asshole. Goes to show that it's not just what's on paper that counts.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-04-07 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. The Repugs I talk to are rooting for Guiliani as the nominee..
They thing he's marvelous...their great white HOPE!

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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. A lot of Repugs I know - and some very conservative ones
at that - like Guiliani also. One - who is a big time social values (anti-abortion) guy, told me a year ago that Guiliani was going to be the nominee. Guiliani's pro-choice position didn't bother him.

I think a lot of people on this thread are overlooking how easily conservatives overlook the failures of their own candidates. They overlooked Reagan's multiple marriages and dysfunctional relationship with his kids. They didn't care about GW's obvious lack of credentials to be the Pres. of this country... his record of failure at everything he'd done was out there for anyone willing to look. Republicans aren't willing to look - if they think they can win with this guy, they will toe the party line. And don't expect the media to do anything but cover up for this guy... he's the hero of 9/11, and that's the story they'll push.

Guiliani worries me more than any other Repug out there... if he can get through the nominating process, he'll be a real threat to win, IMHO.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. Unfortunately, denial is standard operating procedure for Repubs.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. WOW!
a thread that attacks a Republican instead of a Democrat?

Am I really at DU?

--------------


ps - thanks for posting this.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Do you ever go into other forums?
because there's always threads ripping on the right all over the place.I don't see how anyone could miss them. :shrug:
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. well, I was referring to a couple of threads this morning
that were both direct attacks on the Dem. Party...

both have since been locked.

--------------

I do think, though, that if someone wanted to take the time and figure out the percentage of threads that attack Republicans versus the percentage that attack Democrats here on DU (and especially the GD/GDP forums) the ratio would be about 50 - 50.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Oh ok...I wont ask what threads.
:)

I'd bet the ratio would be closer to 65-35 against Repubs...but not in this forum,where the ratio is definitely higher.But one of the reasons the forum was separated from the regular General Discussion was to hash out all these things.It's not always pretty,but politics is a contact sport.If you think we're rough just wait until the Right starts in.

There are forums for each single candidate where like minded people can discuss who they like without the contention that goes on here.I've never been a rah rah guy (bet that's no surprise to you),so I'd rather participate up here.I find that even though a lot of info is crap a lot of it isn't as well,and a lot of times the best info comes from those defending a candidate,which you wont get in a forum where everyone says,"Yeah,I agree."
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. few a far between
... a thread that attacks a Republican instead of a Democrat?

And not much interest in it at that, either that or the Heathers here have been successful in their PM campaign to persuade others that I have cooties (I even got a copy!). The former is at least a more mature rationale albeit a manifestation of tunnel-vision. A quick perusal at the locked threads here today leads me to believe DU would rather attack Democrats.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
25. NJ KNOWS very well what a scumbag he is, yet if the election
was held today he would beat Hillary like a bad piece of meat. I tend to believe that NY and CT would go for him too.


http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-6/1172817878216280.xml&coll=1
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I think Giuliani would fare poorly in the general election
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 07:20 PM by AtomicKitten
There is just too much material to throw at him. Rumor has it he didn't enter the NY Senate race against Hillary because he was expected to lose, so I don't think your analysis of how he would fare against HRC in a presidential election holds water. I think Dems would be thrilled if he was chosen as the GOP nominee in 2008.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. The only thing I see bringing him down is that his wife is a hussy...

And that's putting it mildly.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. his personal life is just the tip of the iceberg
His prior stances on social issues will paint him as an epic flip-flopper. That in itself will cause the collective evangelical heads to explode when it is - and make no mistake it will be - exploited in the general.

Also ALL his speeches are about 9/11; that's it. He's got nothing else. And many NY'ers have a bone to pick with him about his allegedly "heroic" coordination of efforts on that day re: no radio contact, etc.

I see him as a goldmine of opportunity for attacks ads against him. He has no substance.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. You don't get it. First rule of GOP politics: I't different when it's OUR guy...
The GOP just want to win. PERIOD! Watch. Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson etals will endorse if he gets the nomination.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. oh I have no doubt
... and one would think they'd choke on their hypocrisy in doing so
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
29. Every RG thread needs one:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. Laughing it up with Hillary
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I finally have to be honest now: I feel sorry for you.
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 09:45 PM by AZBlue
To be so filled with hate and to be so negatively focused is no way to live. I hope you figure that out before it's too late.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. LOL!
You got all that from a photo of Clinton and Giuliani? Maybe you should step away from the reverse psychology.

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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. No - I got that from the tone of all the posts I've read by you on DU.
LOL
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Like
this and this?

Care to post a comment to those two?
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