Why does every thread complimentary to Dean get hijacked?

[OzarkDem]

by someone who wants to make ignorant, baseless ad hominem attacks about him? So-called Dems who attack Dean can only attack him personally because they can't argue with his phenomenal success. Their personal attacks in every Dean thread sound so.... Republican.

Get over it, folks. Howard Dean is one of the most successful leaders of the Democratic Party in recent history.

Dean was successful because he wasn't afraid to make our party stand up for its values and be proud of its beliefs, values, policies and history of accomplishment. He rejected the idea of acting as sniveling apologists who pretend to be like the GOP. He wasn't afraid to say that Dems are the superior party and their ideas stand on their own.

All the low-brow sniping isn't going to change it. Get on board with Democrats who are proud of their party and their candidates or find another party more suited to your values.

On edit: the latest hijack attempt was repulsive and not representative of good Democratic values:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2999241&mesg_id=2999241

[madfloridian]

1. Thank you.

I wonder that myself. That was a nice post that should not have made anyone angry.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/725

[seabeyond]

2. i didnt know he was being attack. silly people. he is a helluva guy

doing a kick ass job. why oh why would a dem bash him. dont know

[ClassWarrior]

3. It's trolls. Ignore 'em.

NGU.

[Hand]

4. Which reminds me--wasn't Dean Acheson an interesting fellow?

:rofl:

[OzarkDem]

10. ...

:spank:

[Hand]

40. Heh heh.

Guess I had that coming--BTW, I'm a HUGE Dean fan. His 50-state strategy will be remembered as the turnaround point for the Democratic party, I think. :toast: :applause:

Reminds me a little of Ron Brown back in 1991 when the conventional wisdom said that Poppy had re-election sewn up. "His support is a mile wide and an inch deep," I remember Brown saying. A year or so later that Big Dog proved him right.

[EFerrari]

5. The good doctor helped me come back to work with Democrats

and it's so good to see him get the credit he deserves.

:)

[Radio_Lady]

6. Every political candidate will have their plusses and their minuses.

My first posts in the supposedly "hijacked" thread had to do with how we supported Howard Dean and worked for his campaign. How is it a "hijack" when an honest discussion begins on those plus and minus points?

How is it a "hijack" when people who supposedly are thinking human beings start swearing at the ideas of other people?

What is repulsive is that people who are trying to be good Democrats can get their britches just as twisted up by a selection of a Democratic candidate as they do over what restaurant other DUers like for their meals while traveling.

Must be the season... it certainly ain't jolly.

[cali]

21. I want to stand up for you, and I want to stand up for you loudly

or whatever, considering that this is written. As you're aware I disagreed with you on the thread in question, and I thought you phrased things rather poorly, but in no way did I see you as disrupting the thread. You voiced your opinion. It's a discussion board. You have every right to do so. And this is a discussion board. Threads will meander where they will. Nothing wrong with that. I'm sorry to see you being treated this way.

[Morgana LaFey]

43. Absolutely appalling posts on that other thread

I'm shocked -- and dismayed. Unbelievable.

[blm]

7. Dean proved that previous DNC heads DIDN'T DO THEIR JOB for the 4yrs they were

charged to do it. And it appears that there are folks now trying to convince the internet that Dean's strategy was not useful to the 2006 campaign. The same people who claimed in 2004 that THEIR strategy was fine, but that darn Kerry only brought in 10million more votes than the previous record held by Gore.

Truth is that both Gore and Kerry won, but the DNC was too weak to get their votes counted in crucial states.

The targetted state strategy was never a good one, and the DNC heads who used it allowed the party infrastructures in red and crucial swing states to be collapsed before 2000, collapse further by 2002, and by 2004 states and county infrastructures in too many states were too weak to counter RNC tactics to suppress and steal the votes in the year before election and were ineffective in securing the election process on election day to get the votes counted.

Dean's 50state strategy proved ALL Dem party infrastrcuture benefits from a national plan and money directed to every state and county to get the job done.

I will work with him in every way to keep strengthening the party infrastructure in my red state. And I dare say there are plenty more Dems like me out there. Ones who are never fooled by the rhetoric of the DC-centric establishment Dems.

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Actually, 12 Years

The DNC was controlled by the Clintons and the DLC since 1993. The Dems got walloped in every Congressional election from 1994-2004. Finally, an actual Democrat was put in charge - and the Dems won. Coincidence?

"Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time."
- Harry S Truman

[blm]

11. True - the targetted state strategy came into play while Clinton headed the party

and spearheaded its political strategy.

Then again, he also told Kerry he should support states' antigay amendments. What was he THINKING?

I believe his instincts only work to keep him alive but do little to establish a THRIVING and strong Democratic party.

[w4rma]

29. I am in full agreement with you, blm. (nt)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Howard Dean is great!

Would have made a great President--and still may. He has shown the party the wisdom of never giving up anywhere--the 50 state strategy has only started reaping benefits. Just wait until 2008!

[patrice]

12. Does this phenomenon corelate with kicking-butt when someone dares

criticize Sen. Clinton?

Just asking.

[madfloridian]

14. Dean's wife being Jewish was brought into it.

And the fact that she chose to remain a doctor and see to her patients.

First off if Jewish figures in we got two others with problems.

[OzarkDem]

15. Its the direction of our party

that's most at issue. Ever since the Dem victories last month, there's been a tremendous push to revert back to old ways - internal bickering, pressure to continue acting like GOP-lite, etc.

We seem to overload on navel gazing instead of patting ourselves on the back and staying committed to our issues.

[patrice]

16. The issues should be the center of our lens on candidates.

[Bitwit1234]

13. Scream

I can not understand why anybody would object to his cry of victory.....all along I thought it was a republican thing trying to scuttle one more democrat candidate. There was absolutely nothing wrong the MSM went along with the republican scums. As they always do.

[patrice]

17. They disapprove of spontaneity and ordinary "flaky-ness".

MSM prefers artificiality and committment-phobic constructions of what they think everyone is supposed to want and what we're supposed to want to be, too.

Presumptious to say the least.

[blm]

46. Media hyped it to avoid the question how THEY had gotten it so wrong in Iowa.

They were all certain for months it would be Dean and Gephardt, and so they hyped the scream as if that was the reason for what they labeled Dean's 'implosion' when he never really imploded, the media had been over-reporting his ground support while under-reporting Kerry and Edwards' strength there.

[Warpy]

18. You're right, that thread deteriorated quickly

into an antifeminist, antisemitic cesspool.

Party conservatives are out in force, I guess, terrified that anyone who isn't the undisputed head of every goody two shoes TV family out there can't possibly win anything.

News flash: if those Repug moderates didn't cross party lines to vote for either Gore or Kerry and against Stupid, they wouldn't cross if we ran the Second Coming.

It's high time to run somebody who energizes the working class party base, and Dean does that.

[Clark2008]

19. The same reason any thread by Clark gets hijacked - because

Dean and Clark are very popular with the net-roots and it scares the powers-that-be and those who work for them.

[Mist]

24. Yep--fear, on the part of Repubs, corpo-media, and the DLC. Now he's

a rock star, touring a number of countries, and they really hate it!

[Julien Sorel]

20. Perhaps because every thread "complimentary to Dean"

includes lines and sentiments like this one:

"Get over it, folks. Howard Dean is one of the most successful leaders of the Democratic Party in recent history."

Without commenting directly on the merits or demerits of Dean himself, I will say that the denseness, fanatacism, naivete, and nastiness of his followers will inevitably result in threads taking a certain direction. Perhaps when people stop getting Dean shoved into their faces and down their throats at every opportunity by his fanatical followers, they will stop expressing resentment of him. That's just a supposition on my part, though.

[cali]

22. Are you living in 2003, perhaps?

Dean is hardly being shoved down anyone's throat. Btw, I think you did just comment on Dean, even if it was indirectly.

[blm]

23. I think the specific detail, that Dean was a successful DNC head is completely appropriate

and his strategy was a winning one.

I believe that Gore and Kerry would be in the WH today if Dean's strategy was in place in 2000 or 2004. The DNC allowing the party infrastcucture to collapse in so many crucial states was THE WEAKEST LINK. Targetted state strategy was the losing strategy for ANY Dem campaign. There was no DNC infrastructure to tap into in many states once the nominee was determined, and there is no way to rebuild a party infrastructure 5months out. The nominee has to go with the infrastructure in place.

Stronger party infrastructures countering the RNC tactics of vote suppression and stealing and strong enough to secure the election process and get the votes counted in every county is what the party needed more than anything else.

[madfloridian]

26. That sounds like 2003 here at DU.

People are always saying don't relive the primaries, so I don't. But when we post about the changes Dean is making, about his speaking in other countries about it....the attacks begin.

[Jim Sagle]

33. More like a suppository.

[Vektor]

25. Don't you hate that?

It happens to other candidates too. It never ceases to amaze me how often perfectly legitimate threads will get interrupted and hijacked by folks spewing irrelevant bilge that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Usually the nasty remarks are nothing but slander and childish name calling directed at a particular person.

It's a mystery what compels some to HAVE to make nasty personal attacks on other Dems just because they are not their "chosen Dem."

Why not just ignore the thread if they don't support that individual? Can they not find, or start a thread about a person they DO like? It would be far less emotionally exhausting than spewing hate all over someone else's thread.

[OzarkDem]

30. Agree

its more worthy to discuss issues and strategy than make personal attacks on individuals ad nauseum.

[MethuenProgressive]

27. "You MUST love the LEADER or you are NOT a TRUE Dem!"

Wow... that sounds so.. so... REPUBLICAN.

and I like Dean, I think he's a the right job for his skills.

But honesty, whining that people who disagree with you are only "so-called Dems"?
Gonna call them traitors in your next post?

[OzarkDem]

31. You missed the point entirely

discuss issues and strategy.

Dean's 50 state strategy worked and we need to build on that success by continuing to strengthen Dems message and build party infrastructure. Two years ago, these were radical ideas, but now they've been proven to succeed. Rather than debate them, why not keep doing what's working?

That's something all of us can do every day. Well, if you're a Democrat, anyway. I realize that even though this is a Democratic forum, not everyone here is a Democrat.:shrug:

[MethuenProgressive]

36. On cue, I'm questioned on really being a Democrat...

Ding Ding! The Pavlov Posting Response strikes the Ozarks!
hint:
Read posts before responding to them. It's for your own good.

[Julien Sorel]

39. Holy Toledo.

Dean's 50 state strategy worked and we need to build on that success by continuing to strengthen Dems message and build party infrastructure. Two years ago, these were radical ideas, but now they've been proven to succeed. Rather than debate them, why not keep doing what's working?


Anyone whose opinion matters can see, in this and your first post, the answer to your original question.

Somewhere out there is a factory that churns out astonishingly naive, but utterly passionate, people. I wish someone would shut it off, maybe outsource it to Mexico or India or someplace.

[blm]

48. Building on success is crucial. Clinton-era targetted state approach was negative from the getgo.

And resulted in the collapsed party infrastructures in too many red and crucial swing states since the mid90s.

[smoogatz]

28. Anybody read the George Saunders piece on "Borat" in this week's

New Yorker? It was pretty interesting, I thought.

[Jim Sagle]

32. Fuckin' A.

[Straight Shooter]

34. I've got so much respect and admiration for Dean ...

... that nothing anybody says to detract from him can bring me down.

Mostly what I hear about is "the scream." I just laugh. As for anything else, well, we're all entitled to our opinions, both artfully and inartfully expressed.

I think Dean would rather we work together on what we have in common, rather than quibble about our differences. Just my 2 cents.

:hi:

[ripple]

35. It isn't just Dean, look at the 2008 threads

I almost cringe when I see a new one for the candidates I support, even if it's complementary. It doesn't take long for the other shoe to drop.

Dean is doing a fantastic job, BTW! :applause:

[Zorra]

37. Dean did an outstanding job as DNC chair. Doc rocks!

A lot of conservatives don't like him, and that is probably why the threads get hijacked.

[MrCoffee]

38. it's a conspiracy, don't you know?

[Arkana]

41. Dean's possibly the most productive head of the DNC

we've ever had--and rather than enjoy the fact that he's handed us our first big political win in years, we choose to attack him because we didn't get more. Bravo, fellas--bravo. HURRRRRRR.

[blm]

45. The attack on him is calculated by the DC-centric establishment who was proved wrong

for hanging on to their failed policy of targetting states in 2000, 2002, and 2004. Dean proved that a strong party infrastructure is needed in EVERY STAE, and no good comes from collapsing those county and state infrastructures, especially since that is where the votes are secured and counted.

Gore or Kerry would be president today if the DNC of 2000 and 2004 had spent the time and money STRENGTHENING party infrastructure in all states instead of allowing the further collapse of infrastructure in every red and swing state the way they have since 1995.

[dweller]

42. Hi Agent Mike!

:hi:

if you are here because of the use of the 'hijacked' reference, look no further, i'll point you to a juicier tidbit. Today on the ESPN, there was a football game, and there were 2 players on opposing teams, one named Gore, the other Bush, and there was graphic, full screen that said 'GORE BUSH' ...

you gotta go check that out, those cats are hopped up on steroids or something. Get to it Mikey!

dp

[kdpeters]

44. That's right. You tell those sniveling, apologist pretender that they started it so it's OK for you

[k_jerome]

47. whining helps. nt.

[paulk]

49. here you go...

IMG]

[OzarkDem]

50. Sorry

you have such a poor self-image as a Democrat.

[proud patriot]

51. I'm locking this thread

Contiuation of a flamewar .

proud patriot Moderator
Democratic Underground