Come November...What can we do if there is a repeat of '02 and '04?

[badgerpup]

We have the numbers. We have the evidence.
How do we make sure that the votes are counted fairly and correctly?
If there is obviously malfeasance, how do we prove it?
Who's got our backs?

[drm604]

1. There has to be a plan.

We can't just wing it. We have to have an organized course of action set up in advance. I have no idea what that course should be, but I feel that it's essential. Any ideas?

[ieoeja]

7. We are decades behind Republicans in organization.

But we do have their design to copy. And modern technology should make it easier. I doubt the RNC managed to establish a presence in all fifty states in under two years. While the DNC's current 50 State Strategy to match the RNC has just that as its goal.

[ieoeja]

2. Celebrate or cry respectively.

We gained seats in both houses of the federal legislature in '02. And we had gains in state governments in both '02 and '04. So if the results are the same as '02 ... we celebrate!

If the results are the same as '04, we have a mixed bag. As already mentioned, we had gains in the states, but were swept in the federal elections. I would say '04 was a net loss. So crying seems appropriate.

Which is why I'll be rooting for a repeat of '96, '98 or '02 and not of '00 or '04.

[Burning Water]

3. What do you mean, if?

I have no doubt that if the Dems don't move spiffy, then after all the vote-counting is done, the Rs will still be in control. And for all the talk about clean elections, all the hard work put in by so many dedicated DU'ers, I haven't actually seen any concrete results, although if someone has a link, I'd like to have it.

By the way, Wes Clark is the only man capable of leading the Ds to the promised land. Clark for President!

[bullimiami]

4. precisely. greg palast in his new book is predicting 4 million

votes are going to dissapear.

what are we going to do when people who are supposed to win by 10-15 points lose their elections?

it is coming, it will be obvious, it will be blatant. will we take it?

[emcguffie]

35. I think four million either disappeared --

-- or were switched in 2004. No, actually more. i think Kerry won by 4 million, in the popular vote.

[bullimiami]

45. i agree with you. i think a landslide for kerry was twisted

into a squeaker for bushco.

[drm604]

5. To start.

I think we need some sort of network of response teams. We need people to work the media. We need people to file lawsuits. We need people on phone banks. We need legal experts. We need mathematicians. What else?

[Diane R]

6. This is an important topic. K&R

[emulatorloo]

8. Bushco can not afford to lose the house and senate in '06

They do not want to be investigated. They will do whatever it takes to make sure that, for example, Sen Pat "cover-up" Roberts keeps his committee chair.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. So far, I haven't heard a damn thing from anyone with any authority or

power to **actually** do something about what, specifically, they would do if the vote gets stolen again.

Lotsa money coming in. Lotsa candidates out there. Lotsa great polls out there. Lotsa 'looking good for the midterms.'

Not a lot of contingency plans to ensure a fair vote. I don't want to know about the platitudinous bullshit we get from our leaders. I want to know what *****specifically****** they have planned for ensuring that ***my*** vote counts.

Please tell me I'm wrong, that I missed the 'plans' memo, and that I have had my head up my ass.

[drm604]

10. You're right. I also have heard nothing.

Maybe it's up to us to start something. We would need to get some of the voting activists involved. Maybe Bradblog would be a good place to start. We need citizens in place to take some kind of actions even if the candidates don't.

Recommend this thread, so far it only has 3. This is VERY IMPORTANT.

:kick:

[Joe for Clark]

13. Unfortunately, I think it is up to us.

I don't want it to be. It just is. I don't think our parent's wanted to bomb Dresden, either.

This has to be done correctly. Those 2004 exit polls, frankly - they were designed to see how many "soccer mom's" voted for whoever. And then, even that data was withheld!!

Slight exaggeration.

Oh, this can be done - has to be done. It is ok, we have the time and the talent.

In fact, I do not know another "numbers guy" that thinks B*sh won - sure - we have the people, alright. And we have the time to do this.

Joe

I reccomend this post.

[drm604]

11. I hope you don't mind

I posted a link to this thread in the Election Reform forum.

[rzemanfl]

12. Postcards with a place for the person's voter registration number

precinct and vote. Mailed to a post office box for use in court.

[drm604]

14. How exactly would we do that?

I don't think we can force that kind of change in voting procedures. I'm not criticizing your idea, just trying to understand what you're saying. Am I misunderstanding you?

[rzemanfl]

15. After people vote, they fill out the postcard and mail it. If a

Dem has 500 votes in a Precinct and 1,000 postcards, something is rotten, ain'a? (as they say in Wisconsin). Voter registration numbers can be used to cull out dupes or frauds.

[drm604]

17. How are you going to get people to fill out the cards?

I don't want to be a nay-sayer, but will people be willing to do this? We're all taught that the privacy of our vote is sacrosanct.

Would we be allowed to be at a polling place and do this? How many people know their voter registration number?

It sounds like the germ of an interesting idea, but there's a lot to consider. Have you worked out the details?

[rzemanfl]

20. If fear of a crypto fascist theocracy isn't enough motivation for

people to give up on their precious secret "Australian ballot" then we are just fucked. Mail the cards out beforehand. Voter registration number is on your card, mine is in my wallet. There is sure to be some slippage and Repukes will claim "voter error," which is why Dems need to win really big. If fraud can be proven in a few precincts, the worms come out of the can, people ask "How?" and once "How" is known (or even just cannot be explained)then the rest comes more easily.

[drm604]

21. "fear of a crypto fascist theocracy"

Yes, but how many people really understand and fear that? We do, but we're not most people.

Yes, the number is on the card, but I wonder how many people can even find their card?

I'm not trying to be critical but we need to objectively question our ideas and make sure that we don't come up with something that fails. I'm concerned about having to depend too much on the general voting population being willing to follow instructions. Especially when the group exhorting them to do so will be under attack by the media.

[rzemanfl]

23. Then read the last words of my first sentence in the reply. n/t

[drm604]

24. Fair enough.

You're probably right. We need some sort of parallel voting. Which means we need to start a massive education project now.

I hate to say this, but we need to arouse peoples fear and paranoia and direct it at the voting machines. We could connect the voting machine companies to their Bush supporting owners and then connect Bush to his "Arab Masters" via the port and defense plant sales. Make them fear foreign control of the elections (it might not be a totally unrealistic fear). That should do it. Voting in parallel is the patriotic thing to do! We could even get the churches involved. Hell, churches, VFW's, American Legions, etc. etc.

[IndyOp]

16. PLAN AHEAD. START NOW. INHIBIT. DETECT. FIGHT BACK WHEN IT OCCURS.

EDUCATE YOURSELF about ALL of the ways in which fraud has been/is being committed.
> Read Mark Crispin Miller's "Fooled Again"
> Read "Steal this Vote"
> Go to Solarbus Election Justice and download the CD to watch videos
> Check "VotersUnite.org" and "VoteTrustUSA.org" and "FairVote.org"
> Lurk and post here at DU in election reform

EDUCATE OTHERS - friends, family, local Dems, other activist groups, city council, and all of your elected representatives.

REGISTER everyone you can get to, make sure they know their rights, and where to vote and make sure they get there.

CAMPAIGN for Progressive candidates - and if there aren't any campaign for the Dems.

PARTICIPATE in running the elections - learn the rules & make sure they are enforced.

WORK ELECTION PROTECTION to make sure that EVERYONE gets to vote.

RUN PARALLEL ELECTIONS to audit the results of your local elections.

Get your local candidates to commit to doing recounts even if the difference in winner/loser is huge.

PLAN AHEAD. START NOW. INHIBIT. DETECT. FIGHT BACK WHEN IT OCCURS.

START NOW.
START NOW.
START NOW.

[drm604]

18. "INHIBIT. DETECT. FIGHT BACK"

I like that. "IDFB"
Maybe we could start a movement. "IDFB" T-Shirts, bumperstickers, etc.

[IndyOp]

22. Cool. Keep starting these threads - the more we kick the issue

around the more people will 'get it' and the more who will 'get going'!

[badgerpup]

19. I just spoke to a member of my state senate- MT.

We have legislation in place for paper ballots even if there are electronic voting machines available in Montana. :bounce:

:think: I realize I am simplistic and all that...but what would happen if there were indeed recognized, recorded, notarized...whatever it would take to certify them as LEGAL DOCUMENTS biparitsan exit polls?
Having volunteers outside the polls do to this? Count me in...I'll take notes.
No names, just are they registered (which they would be, otherwise they wouldn't have been allowed to vote in the first place) and how did they vote on the key issues.
These could be compared against the 'official' results if anything looked fishy.
I realize I'm making a big assumption that voters would be honest and want to assure that their vote to be counted as they cast it.

[1620rock]

27. Yes we must start now, we must act quickly...the clock is...

...ticking and November is really just around the corner. :scared:

[Greyhound]

25. "Who's got our backs?"

nobody. The same nobody that has let this get to this point in the first place. In case it has escaped your notice, this country has undergone a coup. We have been occupied for six years and those responsible are not about to let it go just because a bunch of sheep stopped chewing their cud long enough to make a mark on a "ballot".

I hope I'm wrong, but history is on my side.

Are you prepared?:hide:

[drm604]

26. We have to try.

But maybe we shouldn't be discussing this on a public forum.

[Greyhound]

33. Sad but true.

It is the only thing that has brought change, and we no longer have the stomach for it.

[Doctor_J]

28. Grab a tube of K-Y and think of England

We're screwed. We have as much chance of re-taking a house of Congress as Smirk does of discovering the Higgs particle. Shumer/Emanuel's hand-picked candidate for the Senate in OH is 11 points behind Bush sycophant DeSwine. TO me that means that the Ohio electorate believes that * is doing just fine. If the electorate as a whole is so stupid and ignorant as to believe that this is the best we can do, than the American experiment is coming to an end.

[drm604]

29. Anyone here good with graphics?

We need pictures. Maybe a voting machine with a ghostly hovering Arab terrorist figure reaching into to it and manipulating the totals. Or maybe an Arab sitting in a cave hacking into our voting machines. What would be good captions? How about "Our voting machines are built by wealthy Bush backers and we all know who Bush works for!"

[mopinko]

30. be a judge, or a poll watcher. parallel elections will never be

accepted, nor, imho should they be. i know i would have a hard time swallowing them out of the other side.
but what we should do is work the polls ourselves. be a judge or a pollwatcher. sign up NOW so that you are able to attend all the training sessions that are available. and especially if you are tech savvy. many places are looking for people to be specially trained on electronic voting machines.
dr dean likes to say, if you only vote, you get a d in democracy. if you want an a, run for something. but i think you should get a b if you work election day.

[Joe for Clark]

32. mopinko - you were just the last post, I am sorry the response

is to you - it is meant to all.

If you designed a poll to pick up who is the soccer mom voting for B*sh, that is what you will pick up.

Design it to pick up vote fraud - and that is what you will get.

That is where we are, you see??

The situation we have here - in November we will need some forensic accountants and statisticians coming forward with MANY people to figure this out. I mean MANY, MANY people to help figure this one out.

We can really do that.

And we better.


Joe

You wonder the techniques - BUDDY, our parents paid good money to good schools for us to learn those techniques - we better have done AT LEAST that.

We did.

Republicans worst nightmare - we're it!!

[Kolesar]

31. Start some threads on the internet...eom

[Joe for Clark]

36. who are you talkin to??

[Kablooie]

34. Sorry, nothing we can do. They've got it wrapped up.

And I ain't just whistling Dixie.


(but I do have a couple of martinis in me so don't take it too seriously)

[Joe for Clark]

37. Martinis sound good -

There is always something we can - may not work - but we can do.

Damn, martinis sound so good.

Joe

[Iowa]

38. This must be addressed at the national level by Dem leaders too...

Even if they genuinely believed that it was a matter of life and death for our democracy, and even if they beat the drums constantly, it would still be tough to drive the point home to the masses.

--I do like the idea of redesigning exit polls specifically to capture fraud.

--We should all vote absentee, right? At least those would be paper ballots.

But when it comes right down to it, the corruption of our voting process will continue to destroy our democracy unless it becomes a MUCH more visible issue. To most people today, Diebold is a car battery, and Blackwell is a deep hole that kids fall into and drown.

[CoffeeCat]

39. I will be taking a video camera with me EVERY time I vote!

That is for sure!

I will never wander into a polling place without my video camera rolling.

I'll also have my digital camera.

If my vote is switched, I want America to see video and stills.

[the other one]

40. Au Revior Democracy! Bon Voyage!

Time to head just a little deeper into the underground...

[ShortnFiery]

41. No worries, it won't even be CLOSE come November

The Chimperor and his coven are pissing off Americans left and right. The only problem we may have is hope that the "October Surprise" is not big enough to allow "Dear Leader" to postpone the elections. The forgoing would be desperate but they're now like cornered rats, so expect almost any damn thing. :scared: ;)

[Spurt]

42. There is plenty to do.

Right now there are places across the country where machines are being selected/approved/tested/etc. These are opportunities to participate and/or oversee those processes. Any fraudulent machines that can be tossed out will reap reward.
Reducing the potential for fraud is more effective than detecting and proving it after the fact.

Publicly fighting the system over the machines will also raise the profile of the problems amongst the masses as they start to focus on elections again.
The whole country knows they have been lied to (even the 32% know but can't admit it) and are more receptive to notions that were tinfoil last year. People are listening now. They need to know the scope for fraud before they cast their vote so that they will report anomalies and critically appraise the results.

Then in November there needs to be documented witness (video, notes etc) of every step of the election, from voting sites through to counting and then recounts. Be able to offer immediate proof of any illegal practices, especially in places like Ohio.

Those who can should offer their services to aid running the election.
However those who do volunteer should make the effort to be the most knowledgable poll workers ever. They should know the process well, know it's parameters, and be prepared to insist on proper process.

And it doesn't matter whether people are registered D or R, so long as they are voters genuinely concerned about the integrity of the election. If your R father in law thinks D's are stealing votes, so long as he genuinely wants a fair vote for everybody then get him to help too.

There is ample evidence that elections have been getting progressively more corrupt for a long time, and that there has been dodgy behaviour from both sides.
Every representative is aware of the Conyers Hearings where ample evidence was tabled to credibly demonstrate widespread fraud. They all know that and more, but they collectively have not solved it.

This is the people vs the system.
The peoples back is only covered by the thousands of diligent researchers and activists from the many election fraud groups. And the people should cover the backs of those groups.

[emlev]

43. What do you mean we have to get started now?

Many of us have gotten started. There are election integrity leaders and activists all over the country working on the things beint discussed in this thread, including parallel elections, statistical analysis of voting, education of the public to the dangers, fighting the certification of corrupt voting systems, etc. If you haven't visited the Election Forum on DU, please go there and start reading. Also follow the great suggestions in IndyOp's post on this thread.

These groups that have been working hard are mostly operating on little or no budget. I mean that literally. If there is any way you can contribute, please do. Even $10 a month would make a big difference. Even $10 once would help raise the spirits of folks who are working long hard hours without pay.

Don't bother asking yourself, "What can one person do?" There are already hundreds of us in the trenches in addition to the thousands upon thousands--maybe millons--who know something about the problems and are natural allies. Join in.

[ComerPerro]

44. I'm afraid theres nothing we can really do

and, honestly and truly, I think that Bush will be president for a long time to come. Unless, of course, he wants out. Then he will appoint someone to replace him, and they will be in power for years and years.


We now have an empire, not a democracy.