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Why I am not in favor of censure, but am in favor of Feingold's putting it

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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 09:30 PM
Original message
Why I am not in favor of censure, but am in favor of Feingold's putting it
on the table for the public to chew on .......

Censure, to me, is simply not enough. Impeachment is. But right now, with Dems being in a serious minority position, putting either or both on the table can serve only one purpose.

Maybe.

That would be to get John and Jane Q to chew on it. Let them get used to the idea. Let it steep like a nice oolong or darjeeling.

In the end, however, censure is simply too little. If ever there was a reason to impose an impeachment trial on a president, the track record of George W. Bush is that reason. High Crimes and Misdemeanors, indeed. And treason and sedition (do some research if you don't know what the latter word means).

But censure? Nope. All it does is weaken the presidency. I know. Bush needs to be weakened. I agree. But not at the cost of weakening the country by having to live with a weakened, but still sitting leader. No, what needs to happen is his removal.

I was in favor of Gerry Ford's pardon of Nixon. To have the sword of Damocles hanging over a former US president was, to me, at the time, abhorrent, particularly in view of what Nixon did (and didn't). The fact is, Nixon resigned. He was gone. Out of power. And that was the goal. More would have been revenge, pure and simple. And when is revenge, really, ever a good thing? You may feel good about it for a while, but in the end, it is false feel-good. Doing the right thing - and no more - is so much more satisfying. To say nothing of just plain being right.

But George W. Bush is no Richard Nixon. He will cling, white knuckled, to the Oval Office's desk. You'll have to grab him by the ankles and try to yank him out. And even then, you're likely to, at best, yank off his pants, right over his tacky alligator cowboy boots.

No, George Bush will never do the right thing. So we the people need to do it.

Besides, what Bush has done in his term - just so far - is so far and away worse than anything Nixon ever did. Anything. Ever.

Bush is, arguably, a war criminal. Nixon? Nope. Bush, arguably, has committed crimes against humanity. Nixon? Not on his worst day.

Removal.

It is the right course.

Even if it happens in the last month of his presidency. We need to show the world we have the resolve to remove our own dictator before we can expect respect for our world views.

If the impeachment leads to his further prosecution by the world court, so be it. I would not have wanted to see Nixon go on trial for what, by comparison, are petty crimes.

But censure? Sorry. It is just not enough for me. But for Sen. Feingold to have put it out there and gotten the debate started? That's a good thing. Just don't let it be the story in and of itself. The media will use it as a device to paint us as loons. Just let it sit and fester until we have the power to do something tangible with it.

Like impeach.

This is not horseshoes or quail hunting. Close just won't get it.

Go for the gonads or go not at all.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. I give up, what is wrong with censure and impeachment?
I am all for pressing the issue from all fronts using all available means. I am for putting our 'opposition' party leaders on the record again and again and again, until they get so nervous about supporting the necon cabal as election time gets closer that they start actually acting like an opposition party.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah.. especially if the Dems are even planning to impeach ...
at least Censure brings the issue to the fore immediately, and is an effective Cease and Desist order - because then the president cannot even issue signing orders suggesting that he is above the law etc.

impeachment is great, but if the Dems are planning to avoid that path for "political" reasons, then i want some body to use whatever means necessary to make this arrogant asshole to stop what he is doing now.

and i can't believe i'm reading that it was ok for Ford to Pardon Nixon..

jesus, i think i'm going to be ill.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. What, exactly, does censure get us?
Rather ranting and puking on my shoes cuz ya don't agree with me, make a cogent case for your point of view.

What, exactly, does puyshing for censure now, when there's no chance to get it give us, exactly?

And do you think you and I are all that far apart in the broader view? I'm talking about strategy here.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Sorry, didn't mean to be rude...
Been Discussing this issue intensely for what... um, guess it's been a few weeks now. Have you been on vacation or out of the country?

I mean, did you miss all the discussion?

Here's a brand new thread I just posted on how Schumer lead the Boycott against Feingold's Censure, if you're interested.. Though maybe you already know about it, and probably approve. :shrug:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2549842





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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, I am aware ... and no, I don't approve, if, as you aver, Schumer led
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 11:37 PM by Husb2Sparkly
some boycott.

I think Feingold's motion was a good one and said so in my OP.

But I don't think we should push for it now. Let it sit and fester. Let people feel it, taste it, smell it, consider it, look at it, bounce it around ......

And then go for impeachement when we can get it.

I want Bush gone. Not weakened, not rebuked, not wrist slapped.

Gone.

Adios.

Sayanara.

And if Den Hagen wants him, I'll pay for the plane ticket.

Coach, of course.

on edit .... I'll even spot him some wallpaper so he can redecorate the cell now that Milosovic is no longer there.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. *sigh* with us its never the right time
We strategize ourselves into paralysis. It ain't that complicated. Our party needs to stand up and tell the truth at every opportunity.
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