So Dean's loss was a media/DLC conspiracy, eh?

[George_Bonanza]

Okay, fair enough, but let's think logically. Did the media relentlessly attack Gore in 2000 because he was going to threaten their future? No, they did it because he was a Democrat and because he was the nominee. So did the media attack Dean because he was a threat to their evil plan for world domination? No, they did it because he was the Democratic front-runner. It probably feels better to think that Dean lost because he was so much more righteous than everyone else, but the fact is that a DLC-style moderate is nothing to be freaked out about.

Many people are now blaming the TV networks of influencing people in New Hampshire. What's the best way to counter filtred TV news? The internet. And guess what? New Hampshire is the 2nd most wired state percentage-wise in America, and ranks 10th in broadband connections (http://pubpages.unh.edu/~rgittell/cibropres3-24-03.pdf). John Kerry won among voters who said that they thoroughly researched their candidate on the internet. John Kerry won legitimately because of his issues, his campaign style, and his electability. There was no cloud of ignorance that the omnipotent anti-Dean powers lowered on the independent and informed voters of NH.

A great deal of people have also been claiming that Kerry is getting a free ride from the media. I guess they think this because the media was so infatuated with Howard Dean in 2003 and barely left any room for John. And when there was news, it was about how bad his campaign was compared to Dean's, or about the cheesesteak, or about his $50 haircuts, or about his French-looking face, etc. Believe me, Kerry has gotten his share of bad press and no press at all. Right now, the Washington Post, the RNC, NewsWeek, and TV networks showing criticisms against Kerry are doing plenty to try and bring down the front-runner to Earth. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&ncid=2043&e=7&u=/nm/20040201/pl_nm/campaign_kerry_newsweek_dc

If the DLC was out to get Dean, then why did their most ardent supporters, like Gore and McGreevey, go out and endorse Dean? Surely, such an organization with the ability to topple the ascension of the Dean's divine right as president has enough influence to reel in some of their biggest names. Is Tom Harkin DLC as well? That was big news, and if he is part of that organization, yet another failure for those people. Those are some big name endorsements coming from an organization that has allegedly assassinated Dean.

Are the people of Iowa and NH THAT stupid? If they were so easily swayed by big media in the primaries, then that also means that they were swayed by big media when they were touting Dean as number one. If people all over America are that stupid, then they were stupid too when they overwhelmingly supported Dean. Oh what is that, only non-Dean supporters are stupid?

So in conclusion, why did Dean lose? Media scrutiny, personal gaffs, overly negative duel with Gephardt, and lack of dimension brought him down IMHO, and it all snowballed after Iowa. Even without the Scream, he still lost big in Iowa, so you can't blame the comedians.

[Closer]

1. More importantly

why did Kerry deny his bad botox job?

[zulchzulu]

4. Desperate attacks about Botox use

Why is this even an issue?

[lastknowngood]

2. as you have already made your decision

I don't understand why you bothered to post.

[Guaranteed]

3. "So did the media attack Dean because he was a threat to their evil...

...plan for world domination? No, they did it because he was the Democratic front-runner."

So why don't they attack Kerry? Have you heard them say one bad thing about Kerry?

[George_Bonanza]

6. Yes

The Washington Post and Newsweek have just recently attacked Kerry for his special interests angle. And remember the philly cheesesteak "issue", also spread by the Washington Post? Or how about the media continually spreading the misconception that Kerry is an elitist and aloof? Or how about them continually ignoring his campaign while showing Dean's huge successes prior to Iowa? I recall an article where they tried to portray Kerry as an unlikeable bastard, when he made a small joke about Al Gore's internet thing. The article said that the audience booed and hissed with disgust, when that never happened.

[wabeewoman]

7. I think they have begun.

I just saw an article saying vets wouldn't support Kerry because he came back and embraced "hanoi jane." And faux was smearing him relentlessly. I support dean and do believe he scared them and they really wanted to put him 'in his place' but they will try to smear any and all democrats. Give them time....

[George_Bonanza]

14. The media loves going after ANY Democrat

Whether it be Gore, Clinton, Dean, or Clark. Kerry will soon be hit, believe me. It happened in 2003, then it subsided because he disappeared until Iowa, and now, it's resurfacing again. Trying to claim Dean's fall as the product of being principled seems like a very self-righteous way to rationalize his unthinkable demise.

[NNN0LHI]

12. RNC Chair Rips Kerry on National Security - January 29, 2004

http://www.command-post.org/2004/2_archives/010008.html

The long knives are coming out for John Kerry now. Here’s the key portion of RNC Chairman Ed Gillespie’s speech today, which previewed what is likely to be a significant line of attack from the GOP if Kerry holds his lead in the race for the Democratic nomination - attacking Kerry’s record of votes to cut spending on the military and on intelligence:

As a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Sen. Kerry shared the assessment of the threat posed by Saddam Hussein. He voted for the use of force in Iraq, then later tried to say it was a vote to “threaten” the use of force, and then ultimately declared himself an “anti-war” candidate.

John Kerry’s record of service in our military is honorable. But his long record in the Senate is one of advocating policies that would weaken our national security.

In 1972, when John Kerry first campaigned for Congress, he made a commitment to vote against military appropriations. After he was elected, he went one step further, actively introducing legislation to reduce funding for defense and intelligence.

In addition to his opposition to defense funding, John Kerry opposed the policies that led to victory in the Cold War.

more

[Indiana Democrat]

5. Dean beat Dean. Anyone who says anything else is spreading propaganda.

Look at his campaign finances...He's an amature. Throw in the fact that he's simply NOT Presidential and you've got the Dean Meltdown.

Reality is reality.

[girl gone mad]

8. enough w/ the...

"not electable"

it's garbage.

[Indiana Democrat]

13. It's the simple truth...Displayed via FACT!

Check the Iowa Caucus, check the New Hampture Primary. Then check next Tuesday...Where he'll get his clock cleaned. DEMOCRATS are telling you something.

Then go back and check his meltdown.

If he was Presidential (Or "Electable" like you say), he'd still be in the game. He's not.

[Southsideirish]

18. Dirty tricks and bullying at caucuses - NH just followed the front

runner. Read David Brooks' column on "electibility" and the herd mentality of the average voter.

[George_Bonanza]

20. That must mean Dean's front-runner status was also herd mentality

[Indiana Democrat]

21. "Dirty Tricks and Bullying"...

...More excuses.

The man blew 41 million dollars. Excuse THAT away.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

Strangely, I agree.

He's an amateur. Going up against the pro's pro. John Kerry is definately a Professional politician. You gotta hand him that.

[NNN0LHI]

17. He had better be a Professional politician going up against Rove...

...or he will get his clock cleaned in November. I think he can beat Bush.

Don

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. I think he can, too.

More because it will be a referendum on Chimp than anything else. I was just hoping for a little more separation between the two candidates. I hope he surprises me and returns to the Kerry of the 80's. You never know.

[alexwcovington]

9. Excuses.

Kerry IS getting a free ride from the media. The media is still throttling every last breath from the Dean campaign, still chastising him whenever he dares criticizes Kerry, while rejoicing when Kerry lambastes Dean.

John Kerry is a shell of his former self, just like Gephardt, just like Lieberman. These people's best days were in their past, now they are all political sellouts trying to go out on top.

Howard Dean is dangerous to the centres of power in this country, because he doesn't have the same type of political machine. He's a grassroots leader. A man of inspiration. A man dedicated to making the system work for the people, not the monied interests. A man whose campaign runs on $80 checks, not $2,000 bigwig hat drops.

A Medical Doctor who cares about people, and has proven his ability to get progressive action through conservative legislatures.

Lack of dimension? Hardly. But you won't hear that from the media.

[George_Bonanza]

11. WP, Newsweek, Daily Telegraph...

Have all attacked Kerry. It will soon mount up.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

16. Yeah, Kerry has it rough.

[George_Bonanza]

19. It will pile up, be patient

He is being attacked by his opponents (Dean shows his class by tackling the Botox issue) and the RNC, and the media is starting to pick up. After he triumphs on Tuesday, the media will know for sure he will be the nominee and they will start to pick him apart.

[molly]

23. You are correct - Dean's true colors are showing

and they are not pretty!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. Correction.

He is being attacked by his opponent. Singular. All those guys who liked to attack the frontrunner have mysteriously fallen silent.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. Preach it.

[Terwilliger]

10. no...who said that?

:shrug:

[foo_bar]

22. as a philly native

or about the cheesesteak

I think that was a hatchet job if I've seen one. The reason they offer cheesesteaks with swiss is people buy them. Barbecued turkey tips on a bagel with hawaiian sauce is called a cheesesteak. Kerry made an honorable decision in light of the local cuisine.

[mzmolly]

26. The Media yeah, and the DLC somewhat...too bad the people of Iowa

fell for it hook/line/sinker...

[DemBones DemBones]

29. So people who vote for someone other than Dean

have to have fallen for something hook, line, and sinker? People who vote for someone other than Dean have to have been duped?

:crazy:

[Capn Sunshine]

27. Spin it however you like

The people still know what happened.

[otohara]

28. Yes & Yes

just because it's the damn truth

[dolstein]

30. DU Rule #1: Blame everything on the DLC

I'm sure people will be blaming the DLC for global warming too.

[Eloriel]

31. Depends on how you define conspiracy

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, exactly, but there certainly were a lot of individuals, forces and interests lined up against him:

What IS true is that the Dem ESTABLISHMENT (which includes people in the DLC, I'm sure -- incl. some which were Kerry's own dirty tricks) helped defeat Dean. (And yes, Dean and the campaign made some mistakes -- but I've thought about it, even if they'd been perfect, I don't think it would have changed the outcome of the two elections all that much if at all.)

* Push polling including anti-Semitic innuendo and not-so-innuendo (t coin a phrase)

* Robocalling Dean supporters at all hours of the night

* Osama bin Laden ad

* Gephardt-Kerry deal in IA (Gephardt's longtime aide hints he was offered the VP slot -- Heheh, hope Gep doesn't REALLY believe that will be honored) and

* Kucinich-Edwards deal (yeah, both of these are perfectly legal and all that -- but please don't try to pass them off as anything but Party Insiders working damn hard to STOP DEAN AT ALL COSTS)

* Sending Dean supporters to the wrong locations for the caucus in Iowa -- and I'm hearing the same thing is happening in New Mexico too

* Vilsack machine in the Iowa caucus (I now know what they mean when they say re Iowa, "Campaign, campaign, campaign and then organize, organize, organize" -- the kind of organizing they're talking about it the good old boys' and girls' network -- dirty tricks and lots of pressure abound. If you aren't part of the machine, not as familiar with the rules, not incredibly assertive, you can get steamrolled.)

* Shaheen machine in NH.

and the one that infuriates me the MOST:

* Co-opt every bit of Dean's message, then go into fearmongering mode n order to make voters think Kerry is more electable by virtue of the fact that he "knows about aircraft carriers for real." 56% of Kerry's votes in NH were on electability, which was further fueled by the ginned up Iowa results. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the man, his policies, or anything else about him -- it's a ringing endorsement of how afraid people are of George Bush.

Here's a post someone in Iowa made to the Official Blog. It gives you a bird's eye view into the process:

For what it's worth, I wanted to give my view of what I saw from the ground in Iowa. First, a few weeks ago the major newspapers started endorsing Kerry and Edwards. Endorsements are fine, but here's what they did. They started writing articles saying that Dean was unelectable and folks were moving to the other candidates. This was clever. We actually hadn't seen that at the time but once they started saying it... over and over and over, it started to happen. They also started running tons of positive Kerry/Edwards letters to the editor and almost exclusively negative Dean letters. This was the most dishonest thing that they did since I know from a fact (my friend works at one of the papers as a clerk) that they had sack-fulls of positive Dean letters.

Even here in Iowa, the average citizen doesn't pay attention until the last minute... like writing your term paper the night before it's due. So that's the message they heard.

I was the Dean Precinct Captain for B12 in Bettendorf Iowa. I can't tell you how many people said "I was originally for Dean but I heard he can't win. We need to beat Bush". The press had created a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Secondly, Kerry and Edwards stole Dean's stump speech as folks started paying attention.

Third, Gephardt knew he was done ahead of time. His folks showed up with the poorest, most home-made posters I've ever seen. They didn't even try. So the message had gone out to them ahead of time to go to "anybody but Dean". Kucinich, who ironically is closest to Dean on policy, made a pact with the devil and told his folks to go to Edwards. I found that ironic since Edwards supported the war.

There you go. The press hammered Dean. Kerry and Edwards took his message so they could win, and most folks were truly "anybody but Bush". After being told in the Iowa press repeatedly for weeks that Dean couldn't win but Kerry could, Kerry roared out of nowhere.

I tell you these things to try to help the other states. Learn from this setback and let's take NH, SC and beyond!


Posted by Scott from Iowa at January 20, 2004 10:22 AM

-----------------

So, I wouldn't blame Dean's problems on the DLC per se -- but on people who are firmly part of the Dem Establishment, and that includes the top dogs of the DLC organization and a lot of its members.

[George_Bonanza]

34. Big establishment names like Gore and McGreevey helped Dean

Are you (or "Scott" to be more fair) implying that Kucinich and Edwards were part of some insidious plot to gang up on Dean? That will anger a lot of DK fans here.

Dean wouldn't have been called unelectable if he didn't regularly make gaffs and angry-man attacks. He would not have gotten negative press if he was not the front runner for such a long stretch. If there an inside establishment plot against him, then Gore, McGreevey, and Harkin would not have endorsed him.

[Abigail147]

32. What really frosts me about this is that I have no doubt

the DNC have taken over many of these threads just to appear overwhelming in the rush to Kerry/Edward. I lurked for a very long time and you guys were not a part of it.

[John_H]

33. Without the media Dean would have been out before the first primary

Then, in Iowa, he gave them the rope and they hung him with it w/ relish.

It's still amazing though that people flatter the DLC with so much power. Dean supporters can't have it both ways--either Dean had the huge ground operation and a bunch of money, in which case the DLC ( or he didn't. If his "machine" was that strong the DLC, which has no ground operation and didn't spend any money in IA or NH to my knowledge, couldn't have touched him if he wanted to.

So take your pick: Either the Dean operation was inefficient and ineffective or the DLC is a convenient bogeyman lame ass excuse.

[George_Bonanza]

35. Well articulated