The legal gynamistics of GW Bush considering "international calls"

[chicagiana]

Given the past legal gynamistics of the Bush administration, does anyone here really believe that the spying has been constrained to "international calls" by "Al Queda associated persons".

Remember that Bush categorizes peacenicks and the ACLU as "terrorists". The Secretary of Education as proclaimed the NEA (National Educators Association) as terrorists. Given the fact that everything is done in secret, isn't it probable that Bush just labels whoever he wants to spy on a terrorist???

On to an international call. Doesn't "international" mean something that leaves the country. Therefore anything that goes into orbit (which is international territory) is international. Therefore, any satellite communication in the US could be considered "international" by lawyers with no scruples even if the call is domestic (say from Illinois to Wisconsin). And what about cell phones??? Their transmissions are sent into space to. So any cell conversation could considered "international".

So now you see how unethical persons could simply "re-classify" domestic calls by ordinary citizes (say Senators, Congressman, CEOs, or you and me) and listen in to them via presidential authority.

Now do you think a FISA court would stand for this. No, I think they would push this bullshit aside pretty quickly. And perhaps THIS is the reason that Bush needs executive orders to get the wiretaps he wants rather than relying on the FISA court which has a track record of approving pretty much anything they are asked for.

Remember the old adage, "It is easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission". Tonights speech by Bush will likely beg that forgiveness. But I suspect it will contain the usual lies that are technically truthful by twisting some definition way beyond it's original intent.

[tulsakatz]

1. we already know their pattern........

...of changing words with the intent of changing how the law is interpreted.

For instance, they changed prisoners of war to 'enemy combatants' so that they would not be held to the Geneva Conventions regarding torture. That was a nice try but pretty much everyone is wise to that game by now!

I wouldn't trust these guys at all after having seen what they are capable of.

[chicagiana]

2. I'm saying this should be the left wing talking point ...

Without a motive, there is no crime. The Republicans are providing a motive of "protecting the country". That is a noble motivation even if a crime is committed (which it was). No harm, no foul.

The Democrats job is to provide a nefarious purpose to Bush's sidestepping of the FISA court which is SPECIFICALLY set up to handle these issues. Why would he do this??? Well to spy on his political opponents, just like Nixon before him.

And I think that the Democrats should challenge the Bush DIRECTLY on whether he has indeed constrained this activity to "terrorist suspects" given the Bush administrations past abuses and fast and loose interpretations of the English language to suit their purpose.

It is not enough to suggest that Bush COULD abuse this power. You need to ACCUSE him of abusing this power!!!!

[Atman]

3. But if they already know they're "Al Qaida associated persons"...

...it would be a piece of proverbial cake to get a warrant and stay within the law. Period. BushCo is trying to pass these cases off as involving some sense of urgency where there was none, and even if there was, the FISA system was set up to ensure quick issue of warrants. There is simply no excuse. Period.

And now I'm going to personalize this...I have a sister living in Thailand with whom I communicate. She's as opposed to Bush and his policies as I am. There supposedly have been "terra" cells operating in Thailand. I publish an anti-BushCo web site, and regularly publish anti-Bush diatribes on DU. Therefore, under Bush's guidelines, he could just as easily have been wiretapping ME. The thing is, we'll never know. I know the CIA and Treasury and Military Command and many other government agencies have paid visits to my web site. Don't let them bullshit us on this one. Any single one of us could be on the receiving end of one of these BushCo wiretaps, and his rationalization that he only bugged the international calls of "Al Qaida associated persons" could mean virtually anybody in the twisted vernacular of the Bush Administration.

[BR_Parkway]

4. C'mon, that's just silly. People who twist words like that would be

like calling flipping hamburgers manufacturing jobs....oh, wait

[LiberalFighter]

5. Weren't they spying in United Nations personnel??