Im beginning to think it will be McCain in 2008.

[nickshepDEM]

As this article points out, some of the smarter republicans in DC have finally come to the realization that nominating McCain maybe their best, and only shot at retaining the White House in 2008.

A lot has changed since 2000, when Sen. John McCain stuck his thumb in every Republican eye he could find and then lapped up the drippings of approval from a national press corps, prouder than a new puppy on graduation day of obedience school. Not only is John McCain the clear frontrunner for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination, but many beltway conservatives are beginning to accept the inevitability of a McCain-run party.

According to several sources in Washington, DC – all of whom have, at times said things drastically critical of the Arizona Senator in my presence – McCain is the GOP’s only hope in the post-Bush era.

“The national environment has gone to s—t and Republicans are going to take a beating in 2006,” one prominent Republican consultant – who is a movement conservative -- told me recently. “McCain is the only guy out there with the credibility to maintain Republican control in Washington.”

“He’s not as liberal as some make him out to me,” one leader of a major conservative activist group told me. “On the three issues most conservatives are energized about right now, the war, spending and the court, McCain is hardcore.”

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-12_12_05_PH.html

McCain, love em' or hate em', is probably one of the most respected political figures in the country.

Personally I think he's a wolf in sheep's clothing. He crosses party lines every once and a while to keep his 'maverick' image pure, but in reality, he's significantly to the right of Bush on ecnomic issues. They're about equal on social issues with McCain actively campaigning against gay marriage and abortion. McCain's foreign policy position is more 'neo-conish' than Bush's too.

[Faygo Kid]

1. Nope. Can't get past the Religious Right; Rove wing can't control him.

Just check out what the Freepers have to say about him. With all due respect for your post, he has no chance.

[nickshepDEM]

9. I disagree for one reason. Whichever candidate the GOP establishment

throws its weight behind, that candidate will win. The republican presidential primaries are a joke. The underdog never wins. The establishment picks a candidate and that candidate becomes the nominee. Thats why Ford beat Reagan, Reagan beat Rockefeller, George H.W. Bush beat Dole, Dole beat Buchanan, Dubya beat McCain.

[jedr]

16. fundies comprise 20% or less of the vote;

Bush stepped on his **** with the social security thing and many 60 plus people who backed him on the Christian issues saw through the guise. The sad part is that these 20% are the ones running the country as of now. On edit: I would have voted for McCain in 2000, I do not view him as a neocon.

[DemGirl7]

24. McCain is in the process of kissing up to them

It was about a month and a half ago, here on DU, it was reported that he had a meeting Falwell, and you can't get more fundie than Falwell. So it seems that McCain is making sure he gets the support of the Fundies.

[FreedomAngel82]

34. I think so too

He won't get it cause he isn't fundie enough. Crooksandliars.com noted back in late October that he met with Falwell so he is trying.

[Warpy]

2. I'm sure McCain will make a great showing if he runs

but you know Babs has her heart set on Jebbie inheriting the family throne. They'll pull every nasty trick in the book on McCain, and we all know that stupid people who vote GOP against their own best interest will fall for it every time.

McCain would probably win no matter who he went up against, and he'd be an improvement over anybody from that Bush family. This might actually be a good thing, proof that a reformer can't make things better, it's their POLICIES that are killing us.

[kstewart33]

3. We could do far worse Republican wise than McCain.

Think a moment of the alternatives. George Allen, Guiliani, Jeb Bush. I'd take McCain any day over these guys.

[catmother]

7. i would take guiliani over mc cain. McCain is conservative.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. Guiliani wouldn't get it though

He's seen as too liberal and only thing he has going on for him is 9/11 and he has too much in his past with women. He wouldn't get the fundie votes and they now choose the nominee. They have too much power now in their party so the criminals can hide behind them.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. I don't trust McCain at all though

Every once in a while he'll play nicey nicey and than he'll screw you in the ass. At least with the others what you see is what you get. Bush fooled some people, even me I admit, for a while but all you have to do is dig around with him and you can see the truth with him. Plus, a lot of them now days aren't hiding it anymore but McCain still does have this whole fake partisan moderate thing going on.

[catmother]

4. nick -- once again you and i are in agreement. i live in arizona.

i have lived here for 16 years and McCain had me fooled for a while. don't trust him. he's playing politician right now. do you think if warner is the nominee we could win?

[nickshepDEM]

13. I dont know of any democratic candidate capable of beating McCain.

Warner is among 3 or so that may have an outside shot, but I wouldnt hold my breath. McCain, for some reason, is highly respected among moderates and independents. IMO, he would carry that demographic by the largest margin of any modern presidential candidate. The only way I see us defeating him is if his age and health become a major issue.

[catmother]

14. you just made me want to cry. n/t

[nickshepDEM]

18. Dont cry. Im just a college kid playing political pundit.

Ask someone else and they may tell you McCain would be a horrible presidential candidate.

[catmother]

27. a college kid? you're so saavy -- i thought you were older. but

on the other hand, my friend got his degree when he was 46.

[snowbear]

17. I don't believe it....

Tweety has more faith in Warner winning than Nick??

[nickshepDEM]

19. Im just being realistic. Warner would be a good candidate vs McCain.

He's a DC outsider, he's a governor, and he has one hell of a record. Id say Warner and Feingold have the best chance vs McCain. Warner for the reasons stated above and Feingold because it takes a maverick to beat a maverick.

[catmother]

26. you don't think feingold is too liberal? n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

41. No matter who we nominate they'll label as liberal

They always do that. They think that every democrat is a liberal when they aren't. Clinton was more conservative/moderate than Kerry. Feingold has a great record too and seems to be doing well in the red state of Wyoming.

[catmother]

47. maybe you're right. they think we're all leftist whackos. lol

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. Ah Nick. You posted once on a Warner thread that Clark was best vs McCain

I can find it if you want, lol.

[nickshepDEM]

32. Ah Tom. You neglected to read my previous post.

I said Warner is among 3 or so who could potentially defeat McCain.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2307952&mesg_id=2307981

[Tom Rinaldo]

40. I know, I did, and yes I am giving you a hard time, but

in your other post you simply said Clark would be the best against McCain, but on this thread you say he is only one of three, and of those three he is the one you did not even name. Definitely a demotion in status, hence my comment. It's not like I think you are being intellectually dishonest or anything though...

[catmother]

25. tweety said that. when? how did i miss that??? n/t

[tritsofme]

20. To make things even worse, McCain is from the Southwest

an area that Dems have been making inroads, and a McCain WH could set that back quite a ways.

Aside from winning all of the Bush states, I could see McCain make states like PA, WI, MI, MN, OR, WA, and even ME, competitive and win.

I just don't see how to make the electoral math work against McCain, his only problem is getting the nomination.

[nickshepDEM]

21. We would have to somehow undermine him in the south.

Convince people in the south he doesnt stand with them and hope that NC, TN, FL and several others flip our way. But thats probably wishful thinking. He's an electoral powerhouse that probably could not be defeated.

[Tom Rinaldo]

30. Seriously, I think Clark really would be best against McCain

They both are seen as mavericks, they both are perceived as patriots and war heroes who put the interests of the nation above their own or political parties. They both like issue oriented campaigning as opposed to mud fights which means no one will try to make Clark look weak on national security, that attack will be off the table since McCain respects Clark's credentials in that area.

Which means Clark can hold his own against McCain on public image though McCain will have an edge because, well, because he's McCain, but he won't blow Clark out in those areas. Which leaves the issues, and the public for the most part supports Democrats on issues. A Democratic platform with a person who is believable as Commander in Chief running gives us a real chance at least. Clark can hold an American flag every bit as well as McCain can, and he is old enough and experienced enough to have sufficient gravitas to share a stage with McCain in a debate. Hopefully a few fundies would stay home or at least not volunteer to help get out the vote for McCain against Clark.

[FreedomAngel82]

39. But Clark doesn't have much experience

I know when I vote for someone, the main person on the ticket at least, I vote on that person's experience. Clark is hardly a baby in politics and needs to try something else first. Just like with Nader. I wouldn't ever vote for Nader because he has no experience.

[nickshepDEM]

42. Ohhh shit.

Pandora's box - Open.



:popcorn:

[Tom Rinaldo]

44. I'm not really in a fighting mood, lol

I am willing to accept for now that we all place different values on different experiences. That is if I'm not pushed too hard of course.

[snowbear]

45. Nickster.. Nickster.... what are we gonna do with you? LOL

Sometimes I think you like to start controversial threads just so you can kick back and watch the shit hit the fan..

You're in the doghouse (again)

http://eliteleague.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/lol!.gif http://eliteleague.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/lol!.gif http://eliteleague.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/lol!.gif

Nick ---->

[nickshepDEM]

46. Well, Tom didnt bite.

Hopefully someone else will.

Popcorn? :popcorn:

[Tom Rinaldo]

43. Well that gets disputed of course depending on your focus.

With the exception of George H. W. Bush, who was a former CIA chief, former ambassador to China and former VP, no other potential candidate since Dwight Eisenhower had more foreign policy experience than Clark. I would give former VP's like Gore and Mondale roughly equivalent FP experience to Clark prior to running for President. Clark held formal Head of State status as Supreme N.A.T.O. commander, he held together a coalition in a war that required every N.A.T.O. member to sign off on all significant military actions, he was directly involved in brokering complex Peace Talks leading to the Dayton Accords. Clark also travels the world extensively and is fluent in 5 languages. He was stationed in Washington by the Joint Chiefs for years and worked closely with members of both parties in Congress on matters related to the Pentagon, so he has direct experience with the legislative process.

As an Army General Clark had oversight responsibilities for troops and dependents under his command equal to the population of a small state. He was responsible for all aspects of administration of military facilities for more than one international command, including budgeting and the provision of education and health care. Clark has strong Executive experience. All of the things that I have listed above give Clark experiences light years more relevant to being President than someone like Ralph Nader.

It is true that there are other Democrats with more Domestic political experience than Clark, and a case can be made that that gives them an advantage over Clark, though I would argue that on a case by case basis. Still it is foolish to not even factor in that Clark has a wealth of experience relative to international relations and national security that virtually no other Democrat can match, and that he has a demonstrated track record in those areas as opposed to at best well thought through position papers. Clark is much more tuned into domestic politics now having run for President in 2004 and staying active in the Democratic Party ever since.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. McCain has align himself with Bush too much though

I remember seeing a poll that cited 60% of the people polled want someone different than Bush. All you have to do with McCain is show how he's been in Bush's back pocket.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. I think Warner has a lot to offer people

He did a great job as governor in Virgina and got a lot done in one term (they have a one term restriction there for some reason), he works well with people and can appeal to all types of people. I'm seriously considering Warner. I think a great team for us would be Warner/Feingold.

[beachmom]

5. I like your "wolf in sheep's clothing" assessment -- that's on the money

It is possible that he will be the '08 nominee. However, he does have a short temper and a thin skin. At the moment, he can do no wrong in the media. This will change in pressure cooker presidential campaign politics. Has he really changed enough that he can weather the microscope and still look "presidential". I seriously don't think so. The right wingers want Allen, but when McCain sold his soul in '04 betraying his good friend John Kerry and embracing his arch nemesis Bush, you knew he was collecting favors in exchange for an '08 presidential bid.

[AX10]

6. He is a wolf in sheeps clothing, no doubt there.

[henslee]

11. Agree. Can't trust/respect a guy willing to eat the BFEE shit sandwich

he ate... only to suck up to them once again.

[snowbear]

8. He'll have to deal with a LOT of racists allegations...

Between supporting Richard Quinn for YEARS, and YEARS, and YEARS (even though Quinn is the editor of the "Southern Partisan" an extremely RACIST magazine according to hundreds of sources on Google)

Right up to his recent support of George Wallace, jr.

He may be the Republican's first choice.. but it doesn't mean he's in.

Even Chris Matthews just predicted to Romney that it's "going to be a Governor next time".. then he added, "I'd like to see you and Mark Warner debate.. he's good"

McCain's racist ties will bring him down.

[catmother]

10. a few years ago he slipped and referred to the vietnamese as

"gooks" and then apologized.

[snowbear]

12. Yup. I just read that in an article about his support of Quinn & Wallace.

If people aren't aware of McCain's ties to Richard Quinn, they should do some super simple investigating. :scared:

It's not just his age... It's not just his health concerns.. it's his background of supporting RACISTS.

edit- Salon (among others) have some great articles about McCain and his background. Just Google "McCain Richard Quinn" :scared:

[catmother]

15. i also heard a story about his temper. he was at a meeting and

he got so angry that he passed out. imagine him with his finger on the button.

[deadparrot]

22. I, too, am a bit worried about McCain.

However, after his role in the "Gang of 14," the fundies vowed to destroy him. Also, the fact that the BFEE is pissed at him over the torture amendment thing might hinder their support of a McCain candidacy in 2008.

I don't like the man's politics. His work on the torture amendment, I appreciate greatly, and what he went through in Vietnam must have been unspeakable, and he has my full respect on that note.

However, after continuing to actively support W in 2004 after what was said about his (McCain's) daughter and wife, not to mention his cruel words about Chelsea Clinton, has me fully convinced that he's just your everyday dirtbag politician--in sheep's clothing.

[snowbear]

23. You all WORRY waAaaAaaaAaaaayy too much!

Seriously too much... By the time Americans have had 8 years of Bush, there's no way they'll be looking to elect his royal ass kisser.

A 4-Star General against an old as dirt Bush kissing fart with health problems? STOP WORRYING !!!

[jackpan1260]

28. A lot can happen in three years

Think about GWB's approval ratings three years ago. Weren't they about double what he has now?

Regardless, McCain blows.

[Nothing Without Hope]

31. There is a powerful faction that wants McCain, and he wants it too.

The glorification and framing of McCain as all the good things opposite to Bush - Mr. Clean and Brave - has already been underway for some time. For example:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1818584
thread title: Framing for the presidency: TV Movie is pure pro-McCain propaganda

McCain has pushed to front of the sorry, stupid (in comparison to him) Rethug congress, where he showcases himself with the help of the corporate media as being wise and trustworthy. The country is starved for leadership and so he portrays himself as a worthy leader who will fix everything.

He is NOT clean, but he is cunning and he has avoided some of the stupid crimes that are coming out about the neocon congress members. I would not be surprised if some of the outing gong on could be traced back to McCain supporters. The more corrupt and stupid they look, the better he looks in comparison. And as long as the Dem leadership keeps dithering and spinelessly avoiding the hard statements on Iraq and electronic election fraud (to mention just two major issues), the more he can come across as THE leader among all the fools.

Oh yes, depend on it. Unless something intervenes, like a health crisis, McCain WILLl be the 2008 Repub candidate. And unless the Dems are forced to pull themselves together and offer a postive choice, he will win.

[peace frog]

51. Hear hear

Just so.

[FreedomAngel82]

33. I'm with you

I think McCain is a neocon wannabe. I don't think he's really changed since 2000 personally. Probably just more noticable now too since the republicans have been in charge. You know he wants to be president since he's been kissing Bush's ass and the neocons. And like others have pointed out the media outlets really like him.

[FrenchieCat]

48. When we think of the Sheeple voters, most don't think of McCain

and Bush in the same thought. As far as they are concerned McCain is miles away from Bush. I would venture to say that McCain is nearly the most unbeatable Pug they have to run in a general election. However, IF we ran the right candidate, than instead of the focus being on personalities....it can be on the issues.

McCain's strength is National Security and defense.....for sure. Run someone who can hold his own in that area to McCain, and the focus shifts to actual policy issues.

Having our Democrat run against any other Republican, us having an edge on National Security would mean victory for us (but most don't want to hear that cause it means their guy ain't the one). Run a strong on defense Dem candidate against McCain, and at least we level out the playing field.

Frenchiepundit

[AtomicKitten]

49. McCain is a Bush butt-kisser

not attractive in anyone, particularly in a candidate.

[peace frog]

50. I've said this right along...

Love him or hate him, McCain is the GOP's best chance at keeping the WH in 2008. He is still widely viewed by the public as a maverick, his own man, beholden to none.. of course, that's pure crap and we know McCain's nose is so far up Junior's bum it tickles Georgie's tonsils, but neverthless. Republicans may be evil but they ain't dumb... they'll nominate whoever among their ranks is most likely to capture the most votes across party lines and ideologies... and right now, it's McCain, hands down.