ALITO: WHERE WERE YOU IN '72? (Yup, another chickenhawk..)

[No Exit]

Where were you in '72?

(much more of the article is before this part)--

However, in 1971 Congress voted to essentially end the college deferment, and by then the U.S. Selective Service had switched to a draft lottery -- the higher your number, based upon your birthday, the more likely that you would be drafted.

In February 1972, the service held its draft lottery for 1973 inductions -- and Alito, in essence, lost. His birthday, April 1, came up as No. 12 that year, a certain ticket to induction, or so it seemed.

(snip)

By then, young Sam Alito -- who was graduating Princeton on his way to Yale Law School -- was already in the Army Reserves, which, as this article notes, "became a haven for those avoiding service in Vietnam." The future judge served in the reserves until 1980 and left with the rank of captain.

How did he get that coveted slot? The judge's father, Sam Alito Sr., was the director of New Jersey's Office of Legislative Services in 1972, so he surely knew some powerful politicians. Did someone make a phone call? We're curious.

(snip)

http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002449.html

The article contains one confusing statement: it says that the higher your lottery number, the more likely you were to be drafted. Actually, it was: the LOWER your lottery number, the more likely you were to be drafted. Alito's number was 12. That's TWELVE.

Another FORTUNATE SON.

[Straight Shooter]

1. Those lottery numbers and the chickenhawks ...

IIRC, one year the lottery number for Rove was 16. Of course, he was a big-shot Republican on campus.

As for Alito, with bush and his gang stressing "support our troops" slogans and all that, how about this slogan for Alito: "He didn't defend our Constitution then. Do you really believe he'll defend it now?"

All wars, according to bush supporters, are about defending what America stands for. And what, in the end, does America stand for? Its Constitution.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. He didn't support it then, do you think he will now?

That is a great slogan!

[Straight Shooter]

6. That's going to be my talking point, anyway, about Alito.

Just to watch those "strict constructionists" sputter.

[onenote]

8. Very Bad Slogan. A lot of folks here found ways not to serve in Vietnam

Including me. And I suspect most of us would take offense at someone suggesting because of that, we failed to "support" the Constitution.

onenote

[acmejack]

2. Surely you expected no less?

Children of privilege didn't serve then and they sure as hell don't volunteer to serve now. Class warfare with real bullets.

[4bucksagallon]

4. chickenhawks!!

It seems the republican party is replete with chickenhawks. Flag wrapped cowards. All the repubs where I work are the same, they hid in some program or school until there was no danger to them then they come out waving the flag like they had just saved it from the communists. I utterly detest these chickenhawks especially the ones on talk radio ie. Rush, Hannity, Snow, Savage, and oh so many more.

[newyawker99]

7. Hi 4bucksagallon!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[ComerPerro]

5. I bet that's why we haven't really heard about his military record

in the reserves. Because he refused to go to Vietnam. They came really close to getting blown wide open with Bush's "war" record, until that forgery conveniently derailed any investigation or discussion of any kind regarding Bush's lack of service.

And they probably don't want questions raised about this.

Because, otherwise, you would think the GOP would really be playing up the fact that he was in the reserves for a long time and left as a Captain.

To go along with their "we support the troops" bullshit.

Does anyone have access to this guys opinions of the war while it was going on? Whether he supported it or opposed it, and how vocal he was?

[onenote]

11. what questions

His service in the reserves began when he left college in 1972. By 1972, we weren't sending people to Vietnam we were bringing them home.

Nothing here. Let's stay focused on what matters: his horrible record as a judge.

onenote

[Igel]

9. Probably doesn't have legs as a story.

The devil's in the updates: he faced the lottery in '69, and probably got a student deferment. They were discontinued a couple of years later, but I'm guessing students already enrolled were grandfathered in. If wrong, please correct. In any event, ROTC participation apparently also preemted induction under the terms of the draft.

http://www.princeton.edu/~armyrotc/alumni2.htm shows the alumni from Princeton ROTC when Alito graduated. 9 commissions. 12 alumni.

ROTC had been formally discontinued in '70, when Alito was frosh, and was formally reinstated in '72 after an undergrad vote in '71. Those in the program were allowed to continue. The numbers of alumni decreased: I wouldn't be surprised to find that extra commissions were thrown Princeton's way in '71 and '72 to encourage ROTC participation. But that's speculation.

This is a plausible answer to why Alito wasn't drafted. The crucial part wasn't the commission, it was being accepted into ROTC at a time when ROTC would have been very, very unpopular: *Reserve* Officers Training Corps. I don't know, however, when Alito joined ROTC, or what the restrictions were. A roomie in college was in ROTC, but that was post-Vietnam.

[onenote]

10. bad argument, bad facts

If I can be so bold, may I ask where you were in 1972? I know where I was -- doing everything I could to avoid going to Vietnam. And I see no dishonor in that. Its one thing to label Cheney and Rove and their ilk as chickenhawks -- they're the ones who made the decision to start a stupid unnecessary war.

And just to put some facts straight: Alito was born in 1950, which means he was in the first lottery, in 1969, and his number was 32. However, until the law was changed in 1971, he probably had a student deferment. The fact that he joined the army reserve as soon as he graduated college strongly suggests that while in school he joined the ROTC -- I had a number of classmates who took that route in order to extend their ability to stay in school. He got lucky because, by the time he graduated, in 1972, deployments to Vietnam were all but ending as the nation was in the process of withdrawing troops. In fact between 1971 and 1972, the number of US troops in Vietnam dropped from over 150,000 to under 25,000.

Save the chickenhawk label for those who deserve it. There are plenty of reasons to oppose Alito for SCOTUS based on his judicial record. Half-baked arguments about his military record are a waste of energy and easily knocked down.

onenote