Ralph Nader is the Dem version of the Repubs' Clenis

[GreenPartyVoter]

Just sayin'.

[kid a]

1. chomp chomp

:popcorn:

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Want some halloween candy? I got plenty. *g*

[mitchtv]

2. only not quite as big

!

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. To hear the Repubs tell it, Clinton's apparatus is large enough to

consume whole cities. I hear Rush is still bringing up the Clenis, even more lately because of the indictments. *happy sigh over Fitzmas*

[jonnyblitz]

5. yup. blame everything on Nader. it get's old .

Of course the people that blame Nader for everything never stop to think why people felt the need to vote for him in the first place. THAT is the elephant in the living room.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. I have notice that the nader threads come up every time something major is

going on with policymaking or supreme court picks. It's something I have come to expect. See something scary in the paper, plan on ignoring a slew of Ralph or Green threads for a few days.

[jonnyblitz]

12. it's easier to blame somebody else than to look at the real

problem within. pretty fucking immature for a bunch of so called adult's. it's like freepers never blaming bush for his faults.I say this as somebody who always vote's for the DEM. I don't even care for Nader that much.

[LittleClarkie]

6. Bah, Nader is the Green version of Pat Buchannan

Yeah, man, we just hate him to hate him, all emotion and not reason or logic.

Some folks, like me, don't hate him for 2000 or anything election related. I don't really hate him at all, actually.

But he went from being a relavant activist to a narcisstic blowhard who occasionally says the right things, but who lost all integrity, at least with me, anyway. He took smear vet money and tried to claim it was because they supported him. He let a pizza party and a conference call constitute a "convention."

He is just plain wrong when he said there wasn't a dime's worth a difference between Bush and Gore or Bush and Kerry.

He is Pat Buchannan. They talk pretty sometimes. But they both can kiss my butt at this point.

[billbuckhead]

7. No, Ralph Nadir is America's answer to Trotsky

Ralph told the greatest lie in the 2000 campaign when he said there was no difference between Bush and Gore.

[LandOLincoln]

8. Oh go to hell. Ralph is a stealth Neocon, Grover N. is

one of his best friends, and anyone who claims otherwise AFTER THE LAST 5 APOCALYPTIC YEARS is f**kin' delusional.

Some of us have known about St. Ralph for 30+ years now. Get a clue.

[AX10]

10. Nader's got a net worth of 5 million + and it's mostly in energy stocks.

Also, he cashed out right before the dot com crash in 2000.

Some "populist". :eyes:

[wookie294]

16. LOL

Show me a link for your BULLSHIT fact.

Notice how this person won't supply a link. LMFAO!

[Touchdown]

27. I found this...

He has written or edited more than 25 books since the publication of "Unsafe At Any Speed." His personal financial disclosure in 2000 listed his net worth at close to $4 million, including $1 million of stock in tech giant Cisco Systems.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/president/candidates/nader.html

Don't know about the other allegations of the previous poster, but Nader is hardly a pauper.

He also busted a union. Not very progressive there.

When ringleader Tim Shorrock filed the union recognition papers, Nader immediately transferred ownership in the Multinational Monitor to close friends who ran an organization ("Essential Information") that Nader had set up. When Shorrock showed up for work the next day, he had been fired, the locks were changed, and management called the police to charge him with theft (of his own work papers.) That charge was thrown out of court, but management fired the two supportive editors and sued the three of them for $1.2 million, agreeing to drop the intimidation suit only when they dropped their NLRB complaint. All of these action are straight from the hardball anti-union playbook, and Nader makes no apology.

According to Nader, "Public interest groups are like crusades…you can’t have work rules, or 9 to 5." Shorrock, with his "union ploy," became an "adversary" according to Nader. "Anything that is commercial, is unionizable," but small public interest organizations "would go broke in a month," Nader says, if they paid union wages, offered union benefits and operated according to standard work rules, such as the eight-hour day. Remember that Nader's well-funded organizations were amassing tons of extra money that Ralph has been playing the stock market with during all these events.

----------Union Busting Sources

"Anti Labor Chapter Surfaces in Nader's Past ", by Heather Szerlag, Pacifica Radio News, October 31, 2000 (starting at 10:45 into the half hour broadcast - slide your RealAudio player forward to that point.)

"Union Buster? The NADER?", by Nick Mamatas, Greenwich Village Gazette, Vol. 5, #44, September 15, 2000

"1.75 Cheers For Ralph", Left Business Observer, October, 1996 (see the section "Ralph As Boss")

"Nader Is A Union Buster" (email), by Tim Shorrock (one of the fired workers), The Sixties-L Listserv, June 27, 2000

"Editors Claim Firing By Nader Based on Unionization Attempt," by Peter Perl, Washington Post, June 28, 1984 pB3

[AX10]

28. "LMFAO" to you too. Touchdown has the links below.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. I bet you used to own a Corvair.

[LittleClarkie]

17. I remember that Ralph Nader. He had integrity. When did he go senile, btw

He is not the same man he used to be. Or the sane man he used to be.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. I can understand taking offense at being told you are the same as a Repub.

I feel the same way as a liberal Christian being told I am the same as a fundy. THAT I understand.

But what I do not understand is why so many people are convinced that Ralph brought this country to its knees. Why are so many people unaware that it's the election rigging that broke us, not anything Ralph said?

We are lost if we do not fix this election system. The repubs have carte blanche.. and what is worse is it's not the sanest most moderate repubs, it's the corporatists and dominionists.

If we do not do something about the election system and get decent people back into office, we will never stop them except through desperate measures.

No wonder we all have our hopes pinned to Fitz. :(

[LittleClarkie]

19. Indeed, I am not an "If Nader hadn't run, we wouldn't be here" person

Anybody and their brother can run. That's not the problem. If Gore had run a better campaign, Nader wouldn't have mattered. If the Gore we've been seeing lately had run, Nader wouldn't have mattered.

He could run again, and I wouldn't care. It's some of what he says and what he's done that gives me the impression he's not the man he used to be that bothers me.

I do find the "It's Nader's fault Bush won" arguement somewhat ridiculous. I wasn't bothered by him until he took Republican help and smear vet money, really. It was the smear vet money esp.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. I think if we look closely at a lot of candidates they are taking money

from places we would prefer they didn't. :( Chalk up yet another reason to go over to Clean Elections with public financing.

[NWHarkness]

22. Nader WAS PART of the rigged election

The GOP helped finance his campaign to draw off votes from Al Gore. He knew it, he accepted it, and he is fair game to be held responsible for it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. The rigging of the election had nothing to do with the running of the

campaigns, only with the tallying of the votes.

And why is Ralph held to such a high standard concerning campign funds? Are there Dems out there who have taken money from Repubs or corporations or fundy churches or any other distasteful or enemy group? I bet there are.

[LittleClarkie]

26. Did he, as with this election, claim the Republican who helped him

actually supported him, as opposed to just helping him to help Bush?

This is why I cringe when he goes after Bush, even when he might be right. Same thing with Pat Buchannan. In a way, it's as if they've both forfeited their right to criticize him, as Pat wanted the SCOTUS nominees that Bush would bring, and Nader should have seen that there was more than a dime's worth of difference between Gore and Kerry and Bush.

[LandOLincoln]

31. Yes, as a matter of fact I did. It was a great little car...

and when I had to sell it in the early summer of 1971 (it ran perfectly and was in great shape) the silly bitch with whom I thought I had a deal for $400, weaseled out of it because of St. Ralph.

So just to thwart that sanctimonious, crawfishing bitch ("But my children...what about my children??") I told her to go to hell, and simply gave it to a friend of mine for nothing. (Except he insisted on giving me $75 for it, all he could afford at the time. I took the $75, because he was a proud man and he would never have forgiven me if I had refused his money.)

So...how old are you, and what the fuck do you know about those days, and/or about St. Ralph the Stealth Neocon/Union Busting lying Petty Tyrant Mansion-owning liar?

Eh??

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. You aren't the first person to tell me you are mad at what Ralph

said about the Corvair. As to what I know of those days, I was still a bun in the oven when you sold your car. But I remember toe socks and gauchos and satin jogging shorts and tube tops and roller skates and bonne belle lip gloss. I also have vague memories of being afraid of watching the nightly news because of the very scary war coverage, but that would have been around 1974 I guess.

[Touchdown]

13. Dem's don't worship false gods like 3rd party "progressives" do.

How far up St. Ralph's crotchety old ass are you anyhow?

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. If you say so. For some here Clinton is untouchable... up on a pedestal

but for me I was very upset with a lot of his policies.. certainly not someone to worship by a long shot.

[Touchdown]

20. So now you reduced it to "some dems"?

I wasn't a big fan of his either, and you will be hard pressed to find any Dem that thinks everything he did was sacrosanct.

Unlike "some" of you, who think Nadir walks on water, an dthat there's still no difference between parties. Votes on endorsing torture are just an inconvenient sand in the vaseline for you though.

It took me a few seconds, but I just got it. You can't defend your savior, so you diestract by bringing up Bill Clinton. That sounds so familiar. Now, where have I experienced this before? Who else does this kind of misdirection? What other cult members have a hero they worship as the second coming, and can't stand any criticism of him, so they bring up the clenis? Oh' I don't know who. Help me out here Birds of a Feather.

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. When did I say Ralph was my savior? I was simply addressing your

post about how all third party people have "saviors" and demigods for candidates and pointing out that dems have them too.

Look, I held my nose and voted for Kerry so you really can't give me grief about the whole "purity" and inability to compromise issues. But guess what, Bush stole the election again anyway, so my vote was just as "wasted" as if I had given it to Cobb, Nader, or the Socialist candidate.

[Touchdown]

29. No, you didn't just "point out Dems too" You brought up Clinton!

You say Roosevelt, you might have an argument, but you brought up Clinton, just like Bush worshippers do.

BTW: You didn't have to say it. You are the first one to post a message to bait Nader's critics, and you do it like clockwork everytime another Nader thread pops up. You think your username is easily forgotten? It's obvious how deep into his rabbit hole you went.

When did I say anything about Nadir throwing the election? I don't like him because he disappears for 4 years, only to sprout up one more time during an election year, and expect to be taken seriously. He's a hypocrite and a union buster. He's also senile.

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. To be honest, I was gonna say JFK but switched to Clinton. But sure

I'll throw Camelot into the mix.

Sure I will sometimes jump into the Nader fray or add a message. But I do not do it unless someone else started it first. You'll also notice.. and this is the real kicker here.. any time someone posts a "Screw the dems, I'm going Green" note here I am the first one to say "That's great, we'd love to have you, but I would like to point out that at this time the election system is so rigged that changing parties may not mean much."

Or maybe you've never noticed that.

[kid a]

15. ouch

[depakid]

24. It's the denial, stupid

People can't get over the fact that the real problem lies within their own party- and its pandering to the right in the vain hope of getting ignorant people (or even Republicans) to switch.

Instead of standing for traditional Democratic principles, they're now widely perceived as standing for nothing (and, from their record over the past 5 years- that's not an entirely innaccurate perception).

Many in the Dem "leadership go to great pains to alienate their base- and then they wonder why their base abandons them.

Denial.

Maybe they should ask themselves why they're now IRRELEVANT in national politics- and why the Republicans- who empower their base- control ecery branch of government AND the media.