Everyone wants to bitch about medical costs and insurance but nobody

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

wants to do anything about it.

Talk is cheap. We all know wehat we can do to bring the industry to its knees, but few have the guts to do it.

Either pay with a smile or quit supporting the crooks.

[rfranklin]

1. Go without medical treatment?

What method do you suggest?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

2. All medical treatment is not contingent upon insurance....

Jesus,

[ikojo]

4. Not everyone can afford to pay fee for service

The cost of one office visit would break most people.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

5. Not everyone can afford insurance...

Which makes ANY medical care inaccessable for many.

[NMDemDist2]

6. my Doc only charges me $35 when I am uninsured and paying cash

it's the darn tests that add up FAST

[knitter4democracy]

29. It's not so much the office visit as the other required stuff.

X-Rays read by a radiologist (some of the highest paid doctors around), biopsies read by a pathologist (in the same league as the radiologists), lab tests performed by paid workers (they get paid at least ten bucks an hour, and that adds up), more lab tests, one hospital admission, and you're already up over a couple thousand bucks.

You're right, though: a level four billing office visit around here is over $150. That's a lot of money. Of course, for uninsured patients, my hubby's practice cuts that number down, but it's still a lot of money.

[Pam-Moby]

3. Ok you have my attention. What?

Let me hear your words.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

7. Simple.

Plan. Groups hire MD's. Use the emergency rooms...

Break the chain.

CEO's don't last when stockholders don't get paid.

And that's only step one.

[Pam-Moby]

8. I have done this 2 times in the past year.

How many times have you done this? I have no insurance as well.

[lonestarnot]

9. Sounds like an HMO

[crispini]

10. So am I to understand that you will soon...

be bringing us the DU Group Health Insurance Collective? After all, somebody's got to do the planning.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. By God, I would if there were enough people willing to get involved.

However, it wouldn't be insurance, it would be a collective.

[crispini]

12. Well,

I'd be interested in seeing your business plan. Revolutionary *ideas* are great, but a good idea has to be backed up by a LOT of details and a LOT of hard work.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

14. Point taken.

I have done business plans in the past.

they're a bitch.

(LOL) But, if there were enough interested parties, I feel confident that I could produce a viable plan for this sort of thing. It just wouldn't make multi millionaires out of anyone.

Peace.

[crispini]

15. I think it's a revolutionary idea.

Sort of like a co-op, only instead of food, it's with medical care.

I don't think it'd fly on DU because, well, we're national.

But I definitely think it would be worth examining in your local community, especially if you have a background in health care or the medical industry.

[lostnfound]

25. I've thought about alternatives to govt led programs also..

There already is a not-for-profit -- Kaiser Permanente. But it's only available in 9 states. And unfortunately it's not available in mine.

How do you develop something universal without it being government led? I've had daydreams about how to make such a thing open to people who can't afford to pay. Such as, you may need to start with a base of at least 10,000? people and for every 100 relatively healthy paying people you can add x number who can't afford it.

Are there any 'umbrella policies' available today that could be bought cheaply which would take over in event of medical catastrophes? If so, it would greatly reduce the number of people required since otherwise just a few unlucky cases could bankrupt the whole thing..?

Seems to me the problem is building up a large enough base without unduly burdening it disproportionately with only the sickest or poorest who can't afford it elsewhere.

[ismnotwasm]

13. Dude, please

The emergencies rooms are already overwelmed by the uninsured or underinsured. It creates a what amounts to a war zone at times when health care workers HAVE TO CHOOSE who to tend to first. Lives are lost--talk to any emergency room nurse. Hospitals are required by law to admit people without insurance, but there have been cases of for-profit hospitals "diverting" basically saying "we're full, and sending the ill to public hospitals.
I worked in long-term care for many years where the forgotten and unwanted people are. Any insurance revolution would devastate them. They are among the first to get benefits cuts, if you've noticed-- Medicaid/Medicare. Many of the elderly sell their medicare benefits to "insurance" companies now--thanks to medicare overhaul.
We need to work from within.

[seabeyond]

16. how old are you? do you have any kids? and if something happens

while we arent insurance and financially wipes us out, no money for food, pay house bill, or send kids to college, what does that get me?

i am at the age i need medical care at the drop of the hat. wont be a small bill. even with insurance could financially cripple us.

again i ask, are you married, responsibilities, are you old, any kids?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

18. Pretty young. Only 53 with kids...

Life deals blows. However, we are in a country that was not designed for a legal mafia to have us all pay protection money to them. That's what the inurance industry is.

that's why you pay $5.00 for an asperin at the hospital.

Peace.

:hi:

[loftycity]

19. Great idea for a Co-op and it could be a national program

Food co-ops are serivced by a few wholesalers nationally.
Set up Health Co-op districts and then go to states and then to counties.
I'd help you...it's a really great idea. And it's already a concept that is working in other crucial basic areas like food and housing.

[Cats Against Frist]

17. I'm in

But make sure you don't tell any Democrats that it's a pro-active, citizen-initiated alternative to a governmental "universal healthcare," that will just pay the same insurance companies to screw us. Make sure that you keep that under wraps -- don't you know -- it's called libertarianism and it's a nasty, nasty thing.

:sarcasm:

[I_Make_Mistakes]

20. I thought there was a movement within the last year by doctors

to also eliminate the middle man (insurance co's). I saw a news broadcast that I can't remember, but I think it was either 3500 or 4200 doctors nation wide were participating. I get the number is irrelevant, but I was hoping more and more would join.

From the doctor's perspective, the insurance co's make them jump Thur hoops to get paid (and in many cases in a very un-timely fashion.).

We need to break the backs of the corporate (Hood Robins) they keep robbing from the poor and giving to themselves (the rich).

I agree that as consumers we do have power and can effect change, count me in and I will help to get this going, if you choose to continue!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

21. I'll keep throwing this out here...

If it starts geting any action, we'll try to organize.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

22. I had an incident with my orthopedic. It is too late to go into it now

but if you keep me in mind I will relate it. They are wondering how they can help keep health care costs down too!

If both sides fight the middle man, we can all win. I have worked for insurance co's in the past, yes I am embarrassed and so are others. This could be the biggest fight and if a win comes, success in the American story.

[knitter4democracy]

31. Sure they are!

Docs are pissed that non-docs are trying to force them to practice differently because of some decision tree sitting on their desk and then extorting them for malpractice insurance on the other side.

The only people docs hate worse than lawyers are insurance company people, and that's saying a lot. ;)

[knitter4democracy]

28. There's a major movement.

It's in my hubby's AMNews almost every week. (Yes, the AMA seems to be for it.) All the docs around here talk about going commando--no insurance of any kind at all. That means no malpractice, too. Their theory is that they'd be less likely to get sued if they don't have deep pockets of million dollar coverage and so on. They also like the idea of being able to practice without an insurance company trying to tell them how.

Not many have actually done it, but many are considering it and building up the resources to do it on the q.t. My hubby's talked about it, and I know he'd love to do it if he were solo, but he's in a bigger practice and just staff there (not partner or partner track--no decision-making capability). He loves the practice, so he wouldn't leave just for this, and I can't see the partners doing it right now, as they're in a state of flux themselves.

I do know they're pretty good about patients without insurance (don't charge the highest amount, make them pay cash, or any of the other horror stories I've heard), but they won't take Medicaid, which pisses my hubby off.

[lostnfound]

24. Did you miss the part about nobody getting rich?

and 'collective' is normally quite different than corporate and capitalist

[Cats Against Frist]

27. libertarianism can be collectivist

Sounds weird -- but it's true -- and it's one of the major misconceptions of libertarianism. Libertarians would form non-governmental collectives of voluntary participants -- and it doesn't matter if anyone gets rich or makes a profit. Some right-wing libertarians or anarcho-capitalists would, of course, perhaps care -- but fuck them. The opposite of libertarianism is a state-mandated universal health care. A voluntary, non-profit healthcare collective is VERY libertarian.

[B Calm]

23. I get my health insurance through my employer at a group rate.

Sorry... but the health of my family comes before anything else! I do agree with you, but it ain't gonna work..

[TiredOfLies]

26. same old song

we the people could bring all the crooks to their knees if we the people would stick together, not only the medical, insurance and pharmisutical companies, Cable companies, but also Exon-Mobil oil co.
Companys know that we are a great big herd of sheep and will go along with whatever they demand.

[Vinca]

30. I had a similar thought, but you can't ask people to risk their

health or their families by telling the insurance companies "no more." It would work, of course, if all of a sudden everyone in the country dropped their insurance, but it's not realistic. I don't know the answer, but it seems to be coming to a head. When GM starts lowering benefits and companies openly hire only "healthy" employees, Congress will have to wake up and do something. Although I want universal health care, a starting point might be a federal health insurance "group" for everyone who can't afford insurance with caps on the premiums. I'd be first in line to sign up.

[Lannes]

32. Until we have some serious campaign finance reform

This will all be just a pipe dream.We have to first deny pharma and the
healthcare industry as a whole the ability to influence politicians to the extent they do now.