Halloween Too Scary for Some Kids, Study Finds

[leftchick]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20051027/sc_space/halloweentooscaryforsomekidsstudyfinds


It is the adults who should be afraid this Halloween. Not of ghouls and goblins, but of permanently scarring their children.

In a recent study of six- and seven-year-olds in the Philadelphia area, Penn State psychologist Cindy Dell Clark found that most parents underestimate just how terrifying the holiday can be for young kids.


<snip>

According to Clark, who interviewed parents and children after three Halloweens, younger children may be unwilling participants in the whole ritual.

The key ingredient in the recipe of Halloween fright is, of course, death.

"Intriguingly, Halloween is a holiday when adults assist children in behaviors taboo and out of bounds," Clark writes in the anthropological journal Ethos. "It is striking that on Halloween, death-related themes are intended as entertainment for the very children whom adults routinely protect."

BOO! .... :eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

Yeah...we used to beat those kids up in elementary school

:evilgrin:

I'm just kidding, but not really...

[Solly Mack]

1. taboo and out of bounds?

uh...ok

[Carni]

21. Didn't you know? It's the devil's holiday! {GASP!} eom

[Solly Mack]

28. I was wondering just how that woman celebrated Halloween

for her to engage in acts that are taboo and out of bounds

Perhaps children shouldn't be allowed near her

[radwriter0555]

80. Actually, it's not, in origin. It was about celebrating the Saints.. it

began as the Evening of All Saints Day when the dead were remembered; as in All that's Hallowed, Hallow E'en, etc.

It also has some far more archaic celtic/romanic origins like the carved out pumpkins resembling skulls around the fire; I forget what the black cat was all about, but its origin was france specifically.

[Bridget Burke]

83. Except they didn't have pumpkins in the Old World.

They had to use turnips.

[radwriter0555]

92. That's RIGHT, they used turnips, I saw that written about!

So cool!

[aquart]

2. Piffle.

[leftchick]

4. That is sweeter than I would say

horse shit!

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. When I was little, Halloween meant dressing up in a Superman

or cowboy costume and going door to door to my neighbors homes and saying "trick or treat!" How "adults" have ruined this nice thing with all this stuff is beyond me.

[leftchick]

7. I was a clown. hobo, black cat

and I a so traumatized over the horror.

:rofl:

[LSparkle]

5. OK, call me a bah-humbug-ger but I was always afraid of Halloween

I couldn't ever decide what to go as, I didn't like walking up to strangers' doors and begging for candy, the teenagers used to spray-paint dirty words on the driveways and cause what felt like mayhem, we had to put our cat in a back bedroom so she wouldn't freak out ... I have no good childhood memories of Halloween and when I got old enough to go to adult parties, people usually got outrageously drunk (including me, on a weeknight ... ugh), driving was chancey as a result (my then-boyfriend's brand-new car got egged one year -- oh joy), and one year I fell down some stairs and sprained my knee so badly that I hobbled for a month afterward.

And that's before we even get to the damned time change ... Yep, just call me "Debbie Downer" when it comes to Halloween.

[demnan]

6. Some people raise their kids to be perpetually afraid of

everything. I have a cousin who grew up that way. Hell, I think there's a lot more mental abuse going on when you read these things then would happen if the kids just got exposed to the normal stuff.

[kenny blankenship]

8. fair point--so tell me is this costume over the top for the little dears?

I'd hate to have to try and return it now after I've had it altered!

[rocktivity]

9. So is the draft.

But seriously folks, I remember how terrified my 2 year-old niece was when her 7-year old cousin showed off her Halloween costume and mask. But she was TOO young, of course.

:evilgrin:
rocknation

[Carni]

24. Well OK granted the fear factor should be toned down for toddlers

I'll go along with that and I always had lame happy type decor around here for my daughter until she was about 5... but unless the kid is totally disengaged from reality I think they know that other little kids in witch costumes aren't *real* at some point.

[Neoma]

10. LAME.

Halloween was the funniest holiday for me.

[DRoseDARs]

11. Oh bloody Hell, just wrap your children in bubblewrap and...

...store them in a closet somewhere so they never have to be exposed to anything ever again. Better yet, just kill them for the ultimate protection of being with God and angels and all those dead puppies and kittens in Heaven. Then kill yourself so you too can enjoy the everlasting safety and freedom from anything, anywhere, that at anytime might conceivably cause you the slightest bit of discomfort.

[Carni]

25. YIKES! I think somebody named Andrea Yates used that logic (eom)

[DRoseDARs]

82. Perhaps but she didn't want to protect them, she just wanted them dead. nt

[booksenkatz]

42. BEST. POST. EVER.

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

[Megahurtz]

12. This sounds like a Fundamentalist tactic

to get rid of Halloween. They think Halloween is "evil", you know.:eyes:

I find this really ridiculous because no where in the Bible does it mention anything about Halloween
or that Halloween is an "evil" Holiday. It's just another stupid human concoction!

Personally I love Halloween!:loveya:
As a kid and now it's been the best and the most fun Holiday of my life!:7

[Spinzonner]

13. Anyone remember the Halloween segment in "Meet Me in St Louis" ?

I don't think any of this is new or permanent.

You can't raise kids in Cocoons

[lastliberalintexas]

15. Yes, and if my childhood Halloweens had been like that

I probably would have been permanently scarred!

I'm rather surprised at the "Pshaw!" replies on this thread, but I guess y'all are heartier folks than I. Heck, even the freaking *ads* for scary movies are too much for me.

And no, I am not a fundie or even religious at all. But I don't like violence of any sort- whether it be the wars of the world or Hollywood/WWE make believe. :shrug:

[Spinzonner]

18. If children aren't exposed to fantasy fears

will they have trouble telling the real from the imagined ?

And is learning to deal with the artificial a way to, somewhat harmlessly, help them develop the psychological tools to handle the real when it comes.

It seems a bit to me like the current issue of raising kids in germ free environments. There's some evidence it leads to higher numbers of cases of Asthma and allergies. And that's even ignoring the bacterial antibiotic resistance problems.

[lastliberalintexas]

23. Children have enough fears without us creating artificial ones for them

My son (only 18 months) is scared to death of insects, even harmless ones such as crickets, and panics when he sees one. My friend's 6 year old son is scared of the bully in his neighborhood. Another friend's 12 year old is afraid of them losing their home since her dad has already been RIF'ed after the hurricane. I doubt any of them need adults to create fantasy fears for them to be able to understand that emotion- and I seriously doubt that they are really any different from other children their ages who have their own fears.

Again, this is just my personal opinion and choice since I am not very tolerant of violence of any sort. I don't expect others to abandon their Halloween pursuits just because I don't care for the holiday. I only wanted to point out that there are people who don't care for the trappings of the modern Halloween celebration for other than fundamentalist religious reasons. :)

[Spinzonner]

26. I think you missed the point

18 months isn't a time for any of that, fantasy or otherwise.

And a bully isn't a fantasy fear, it's a real one and a budding criminal that needs to be dealt with.

And losing a home is a disaster that needs to be dealt with both within the family and externally.

I don't see how they have anything to do with the practice of Halloween. And there's a real difference between 'scarring' kids and terrorizing them.

[lastliberalintexas]

33. No, I didn't

I simply pointed out that kids don't need "fantasy fears" to be able to understand that emotion as you'd alleged- they have plenty of real fears with which to deal. I didn't say it had anything to do with Halloween, just their ability to deal with the emotion of fear without having some "fantasy" created for them.

Again, not everyone enjoys Halloween, and the replies on this thread are simply ignoring that fact. And that dislike isn't always based on misguided religious beliefs.

And as for "safe" and "fun" Halloween practices, it is sometimes too much for some younger children to be able to understand. That was all the article said. It didn't argue for the abolition of the holiday- it was just an advisory for parents to think about the psyche of their particular children before going all out for the holiday. I never cared for it, my brother loved it- and my parents did what good parents do and didn't force it on me or prevent him from having his fun.

But I am apparently in the minority here amongst liberals who normally would cringe at most other violent activities. To each her own. :)

[anotherdrew]

44. good point on violence. scary halloween shouldn't involve serial killers

or any other explicit violence based fear stuff. Just "unknown" fears. Like sure, people are supposed to be scared of ghosts, but really what's a ghost gonna do to you? unknown. scary. It's very different from violence-based scary, like friday the 13th movies or pinhead type stuff.

[smartvoter]

14. I smell fundies. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

45. STEALTH fundies. That's a new tactic. (nt)

[lonestarnot]

64. Me tooo... peeee uuuuuuu...

sniff... some'n staaaanks!

[nookiemonster]

91. We're in agreement.

Also, what's up with insulating our children to the point of overkill. Just wait until these kids grow up and face adversity for the first time.

I shudder at the thought.

:scared:

[Boomer]

16. Halloween is my favorite day of the year

We go all out for Halloween, with a display that usually takes several weekends to put up. This year: the haunted pumpkin patch watched over by a witch and a demon farmer (in overalls and suspenders), plus a black-robed ghoul guarding the entrance to the backyard where we're setting up the cemetery and a mausoleum. Sound effects disc and fog machine have all been tested and are ready to go!

Our neighborhood is chockfull of children so we'll get at least 200 kids at our house. Some are repeat customers from previous years; they make a point of coming by to see what we've added.

It's pretty funny which kids are too scared to come in and which absolutely love it. One girl from right next door has yet to step in our yard during Halloween, even though she's fearless about everything else in life. Some boys of ten or twelve have started down our walk then bolted back to the street, but then there was the five-year old girl (dressed as a fairy princess in pink) who walked slowly through the whole exhibit, carefully studying every lighting effect, the rubber rats and crawling hand, the ghouls and skeletons and bats. Then solemnly said, "Thank you. I really like this."

So go figure.

[Carni]

30. A person after my own heart! I do the same type thing...

As I type there is a *dead tree* in my living room. (I dragged a bunch of large dead branches into my house, put them in a cauldron then strung bats black lights and spider webs in my tree)

My flower beds have all been converted to graveyards (there are lit bones and glowing tombstones throughout the beds)

The foggers and all the motion detector scary guys are ready to go on my porch, the deck and over my doorways.

Yes, I need to get a life I have been working at this for two weeks and last night a woman in the area that I don't know stopped by to tell me how wonderful my decorations were--this whole Fitzgerald thing is turning me into a freaking whacko LOL

In my defense our 9 year old is having a party on the 31st (yeah yeah that's the excuse)

[Megahurtz]

31. Cool!

:7

[Carni]

34. Best Halloween decoration going is dead branches/Trust me on this one--

They're free and they look damned creepy when lit the right way.

I put huge branches in pots all around the outside of my house too (making archways over the doors then I string black lights and add fake crows and webs)

Maybe we should start a people addicted to creepy decorating forum here at DU! LOL

[woodsprite]

52. Count me in!!!

I'm sitting here typing with our den decorated like a dungeon :) Looking over the whole scene is 2 death-eater ghouls holding candles hanging from our loft and one creepy skeleton on my couch. We have an empty 6' tall wooden casket next to the sliding glass door just waiting for my daughter to step inside Monday night, to hide and scare the older trick-or-treaters.

In our garage, which is lit with black lights, we have a 6' jumping spider (pneumatic, rides on an old rowing machine). Outside, we have our chilled fog machine to give "atmosphere" to our graveyard. Hubby and I made 13 tombstones over the past 2 Halloweens. Hubby also made a grave jumper this year out of a tire pump.

We also added a motion detector scream box (our daughter's debut) and linked a strobe light to it. That's in the den as the kids enter.

Next year's plans include moving books for our mantle in the den, a few more tombstones, and a floating crank ghost.

As a parent, it's all in how you handle it. This is all "movie magic" to my 5yo son. He's having fun helping create the stuff. My 12yo daughter thinks it's great since she's "too old" to go trick-or-treating. We're gonna have the T-or-Tr's go on our porch, thru our sliding glass door and out the garage. If they want to avoid the ghouls, and for little kids, just go up to the garage to get the candy.

[Boomer]

35. Dead trees are great props!

A few years ago my partner and I were driving through a shopping mall parking lot and saw a pile of small dead trees that had been uprooted and cast aside by the grounds crew. We grabbed those, tossed them into the truck, and a few days later we had a haunted forest on our front porch. Hay and leaves were strewn on the flooring, and of course we had rats and spiders and bats in the branches.

That's also the year I dressed in black robes and pointy hat, put a rubber witche's mask on my face, and sat in a rocking chair on the porch. I stayed very, very still when the trick-or-treaters passed by on their way to the door, so everyone assumed I was just a stuffed figure.

Then, when they turned around to leave, I'd lunge forward and scare the ever lovin' beejeesus out of them.

[Carni]

46. I remember the people that did that when I was a kid!

Those houses were always the coolest to go to :)

[barb162]

63. if they are about 8, okay, but I bet you traumatized the 3 year olds

for life (teehee, I think)

[Bridget Burke]

86. Maybe that little girl has a future in Special Effects.

I knew an older kid who loved gross, graphic movies that freaked ME out. Then I found out he read Fangoria. He studied makeup, prosthetics & all those things that made movies scary.

Last I heard, he was making extremely independent films.

[erinlough]

17. If I told these people what we do at Holloween

in our family, they would write us up as examples of this study!

Just to fill you all in, it involves scary stories, fires in the fire pits, and.......hayrides with family members who jump out to scare the little riders!!! Of course the kids look forward to it every year, and we all start planning for it as soon as it is over, but I guess that just belies the fact that it is damaging the kids...yeah right.

[Boomer]

19. Kids need a little damage now and then...

Halloween is all about facing the incredibly scary (darkness, evil, death) in a safe context. It's training wheels before the wild ride of later life. I'm a firm believer that children who are protected too much will be unable to cope with chaos and terror when it REALLY happens.

And I love to hear small children scream. :evilgrin:

[NashVegas]

27. Absolutely!

There're often one or two people in a gathering who take it too far and give kids an unenjoyable scare. And there may be a kid or two who are less able to enjoy being scared (even though they know it's a false scare deep down) in the first place. If anything, those little over-reactors are sending their parents a message that they should listen to, and maybe attend to.

And I love to watch small children run!

[erinlough]

29. Did I mention that the kids help set up the party

they know where "all the monsters are buried" and when they get old enough, they graduate to being a scarer, rather than a scarie. We're on the third generation, and no one misses the party.

[Boomer]

39. There's an advantage to a Halloween "set"

Kids can control their exposure to scary stuff.

We have a small sidewalk that runs down the side of our house. Every step of the way is marked with some kind of effect -- rocks that emit cackles, tombstones that crack open, grinning skulls, glowing bones, etc.

Scary as it may be, the children have complete control over how much of the path they follow. Some never step foot beyond the front wrought-iron gate, others get halfway there and decide to turn around and run. But the majority make it all the way to the end of the path and are rewarded with candy.

The one concession we make -- and I think it's an important one -- is that I don't wear a mask when I hand out the candy. At most, I may have long robe, but I don't assume any scary mannerisms. In fact, I'm usually cheering the nervous kids who take the last few steps and I make a point of saying that for their courage in traveling the haunted path, they get a reward.

[Carni]

20. I hate BS like this

Halloween was my favorite holiday as a kid--it's STILL my fave holiday.

Between the fundies and these psycho babble people it's not surprising that I hardly get any trick or treaters.

BTW Flame away because I will argue to the death over this one

[pop goes the weasel]

22. party poopers

As long as parents don't disguise their faces, or their children's faces, even toddlers enjoy dressing up in things they understand (animals, fire fighters, etc.). Masks of any sort at any time are scary for very little children, so the idea of a mask has to be introduced slowly. But Halloween is in general no scarier or more scarring than Christmas. I know lots of kids who are forced to sit on Santa's lap and never get over it. At least with Halloween, parents don't try to convince children that the costumed people they see are real monsters.

[mr_hat]

32. Death?! Halloween is about bags o' candy.

[patdem]

36. I recall one October, after the Circus, I took my neices and nephews

on a FRIGHT ride!..It was something I did spontaneously. It was VERY foggy when we left the Circus and I took a back road home...no lights on the road... I pretended the car cut off..and I pretended trying to start the car..and then SCREAMING!..WHAT IS THAT? LOOKING OUTSIDE THE WINDOW...AND ALL THE KIDS SCREAMED..AND THEN I TRIED TO START THE CAR..AND SAID (in my most scared voice) PLEASE, CAR START...FINALLY THE CAR STARTED AND WE DROVE AWAY SAFELY.....When I told them I was just fooling them they BEGGED me to take them on ANOTHER FRIGHT RIDE...! I do believe kids like being frightened and then safe, because they believe if things go wrong they can GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE...SAFELY! Just my opinion based on this experience..and my own personally as a kid too!

[booksenkatz]

37. Every kid is different; I think there may even be a genetic component

When I was a kid, I thrived on scary stuff... the scarier, the better. I got a rush from it. I still do. My kid's the same way. He's now 6, but he's craved scary stuff since he was about 3. I started him out on "The Wizard of Oz" at 3 and he adored it, just as I did when I was 3. Last year he insisted on being a werewolf for Halloween, a scary one. He's seen all of the Harry Potter films, yes, they scare him, but he screams for more if you deny him. Some of us are just wired differently... leave us alone! LOL

[Carni]

47. I agree

Much to my chagrin my 9 year old watched *The ring* a few months ago (without my knowledge) and thought it was dumb...one of the good points of having all the Halloween hoopla in my home in the past... is that they realize IT'S JUST MAKE-UP.

One of my fondest memories as a kid was trick or treating at an honest to God mansion on a cliff where they invited people in and had the creep factor turned up to full tilt. It was the coolest.

[booksenkatz]

49. The only problem I've noticed for myself is...

...the older I get, the harder it is to be truly scared by a movie anymore. I used to have a long list of movies that still scare me, but ever since I had a baby, I don't scare easily these days! LOL

I think also that what is scary varies from person to person. I am terrified of mirrors and wells and being unable to see someone's eyes, so therefore I find "The Ring" to be quite frightening. The Jason/Halloween/someone-is-chasing-you-and-is-going-to-kill-you movies have never done a thing for me. I told my husband last night that choosing scary movies is kinda like choosing porn... strictly a matter of personal taste as to what gives you that "kick" that you need.

And I have complete respect for people, including those on this thread, who don't get into it. My only request is that the psychologists refrain from telling me that I'm damaging or scarring my kid for life with this stuff.

[Carni]

53. Funny you should say that...

AGREED! Nothing is scarier than childbirth lol

I thought the visuals in the ring were horrifying so when my daughter announced that she had seen it I was appalled (same deal with the Grudge--really dumb movie but there were some segments that creeped me right out!)

I also think the slasher films are lame--they are just gross but not scary IMO

[booksenkatz]

59. A matter of taste

As disturbing as I find "The Ring," I know people who said they laughed all the way through it. And those same friends are the ones who can't sit through something like "Halloween," which makes ME laugh. I'm very interested in why people are scared of some things and not other things. Another example: I'm terrified to this day of that doll from Night Gallery, and if you were a fan of Serling, you'll know which doll I mean... the one with the black around her eyes. The doll on the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper album has bothered me all of my life. Yet I know that to others, these are mere dolls. Where do these things come from, I wonder? Are we pre-wired for certain things?

I'm really enjoying this thread! I was thinking it would be fun some upcoming night for someone to start a thread for DUers to "tell" ghost stories, or even better, tell about odd things that have really happened to them (my fav ghost stories are the "this weird thing happened to me when I was ten" kind of stories). They did something like that at DU sometime in the last few years, and a few DUers told of some real-life stuff that made the hairs on the back of my neck tingle. I bet you or Boomer could really knock my socks off with some kind of story about a doll and a mirror.........:scared:

[barb162]

65. When I was walking with my girlfriend down the street one really

cold night (highschool) we saw this woman walking toward us with a long cape. When we got close, she had warts and all on her face and a really long face. She scared the living bejeesus out of us. We looked at one another after she passed us and both of us ran like hell for about a half block till we got to the corner and looked to see if she was chasing us.

[Carni]

87. UG! I remember that doll from Night Gallery lol

I hate dolls, clowns all that stuff-dolls freak me out!

Yes, I am scared by the more subtle traditional creepy ghost story type of thing--the slasher films to me are just dumb.

Here's an embarrassing admission...the Blair witch project scared me also but then I don't like being out in a forest for any reason!

I think a ghost story thread like Sunday night would be fun!

[Withywindle]

38. As a kid, I loved Halloween...

(still do). Ghost stories, night runs through the graveyard, costume contests, pumpkin carvings....couldn't get enough. It's play-scared, ya know?

Now EASTER...thinking at great length about how long it takes someone being crucified to die and how much it must hurt...THAT was what gave me nightmares.

[Boomer]

41. And then there's Bambi

My child pyche was scarred by Bambi going "Mother? Mother" and some other Disney animated film about a young boy who became cold and unfeeling after being pierced by a bewitched icycle. I don't remember too much about the story since I was hiding behind the theater chair -- my mother may even have taken me away before the end of the film. And don't get me started about Dumbo reaching out his little trunk through the bars in a desperate attempt to touch another elephant.

For me, the truly scary events were emotional.

On the other hand, my mother freaked when I was watching the beginning of a film called "The Crawling Eye" that had a mountaneer falling from a cliffside, his head ripped off by some monster. I was SOOOO bummed that she turned off the TV set under the mistaken belief that this was entirely too strong for me to watch.

The result was that I spent half my life looking for that film again so I could see the damn ending. And eventually I did. It was a truly stupid horror film starring Forrest Tucker, but I finally had closure!

[Carni]

50. OMG-- I also hated the movie Bambi lol

We must be from the same era!

It scared me and I was convinced my mother would be kilkled in a forest fire until I was twelve lol (oooopps! That would be by a hunter...I think!)

[booksenkatz]

51. Excellent point, Boomer

The sad, heartbreaking stuff is the stuff that scarred me. I can't even watch/read certain news stories if it involves an abandoned or abused child/animal. I saw Bambi ONCE as a child and it ripped me to shreds... I have NEVER watched it again. But if you've got a great scary-ass film that will keep me awake and bothered for weeks, to the point of sleeping with the lights on, bring it on!

I've always had full-scale Halloween productions at my house, too, by the way. A few parents will say, "That's too intense for my child" and they won't approach, and I just wave in a friendly way and say, "Hey, that's ok!" Mutual respect, that's all I ask.

[Bonescrat]

56. Elephants on parade was rough for me. lol

[NuttyFluffers]

70. god, that was my favorite part of the movie!

and i actually liked the death of bambi's mother. and the death of ol' yeller.

when i was a kid i had access to the family VCR and would watch those scenes over and over and over! the separation of dumbo from mother, the elephants on parade, the death of bambi's mom, death of ol' yeller, jonathan winters in disney scary tales -- loved headless horseman story, preview of the black cauldron (it wasn't released until decades after)... i loved all that stuff. witchcraft, ghosts, supernatural evil, heartbreak, death, anguish, loved it all.

the only one that bothered me was slasher flicks, particularly those that could happen. somehow the blood and gore and the tangibility and probability of it bothered me more than the other stuff. everything supernatural i felt i could handle, temporal things though, feel helpless and afraid.

weird, funny how we're all wired differently.

[Bridget Burke]

85. What about they flying monkeys in Wizard of Oz?

They still scare me!

[Carni]

48. I hated easter and hate it today

I'm in your camp--easter services when I was four were so screwed up that I haven't been to church for anything but weddings and funerals since...Easter to me as a kid was pretty frightening.

And just think--some of the same people that bitch about Halloween being too scary took their kids to see Pasion of the Christ.

Go figure?

[anotherdrew]

40. what does "too scary" mean? Is this supposed to "harm" them somehow?

"adults assist children in behaviors taboo and out of bounds"

uh... like what fer god's sake? what out-of-bound taboo could she even possibly be referring too?

[mod mom]

43. Not my boy, the only thing that ever scared him was the threat of manner

school!

[roseBudd]

54. I am ashamed to admit I scared the shit out of some kids last year...

My face was painted green, I had theatrical blood dripping from my mouth. I kept the candy in a skull. But the kicker was I didn't speak at all. I didn't plan it that way, I just started channeling zombie.

Some kids wouldn't leave the sidewalk.

[tabasco]

57. Back about 1994, my co-workers and I set up a halloween

house of horrors at work for parents to bring their kids too. We should have issued an age warning or something because those guys really scared the crap out of some of those kids. Popping up out of coffins and stuff like that. :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[skooooo]

55. wimps!!!

[Missy Vixen]

58. Another fundy former shopowner

in our building was holding down the fort yesterday for another absent shopowner. Of course she brought her two kids (six and four,) who promptly told any adult who would listen that Halloween and trick or treating is "bad". They don't believe in "lying" to their kids. As a result, when they put the very ill family dog down several months ago, both of these kids met me at the door one morning with "Daddy shot (dog's name)."

Pardon the obscenity, but what kind of fucking idiot would tell a six and four year old (with no ability to understand death or illness,) that Daddy shot their dog? Why not say that Doggie was sick and he died? This was obviously traumatic to both of them. It's better not to lie, though! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I noticed that another poster has already alluded to this, and yes, it really happened: When "The Passion of the Christ" came out on DVD, this woman still had a shop in our building. She played the movie continuously during business hours in her store for over a week.

Julie

[spacelady]

60. Halloween is about having an imagination, pretend & BOOO!

and knowing it's all for fun and you are safe. I believe it can actually reinforce a sense of contentment, humor & memories of how you can enter a fantasy world & then come back to normal. It's about any cherished tradition where all the grownups and children participate.

[Igel]

61. Here's a link to the good doctor's site.

http://children.camden.rutgers.edu/profile/clark.htm

Doesn't sound fundie to me. Sounds like she cares about kids and their development.

I'd also point out, if any of the previous posters actually check back on threads (I frequently don't, so they might) that not all kids mature at the same rate, or have the same psychological structures in place at a given age. Just because some kids handle some kinds of fear just fine, or their parents make it safe and clear to them that all's well, doesn't mean that it's true for all kids exposed to every kind of thing that might frighten them.

Sounds like serious research, in other words, by a competent specialist basing her results on statistically valid data that she collected. But since we disagree with it, it's got to be bogus, if not ridiculous.

[durablend]

81. The research was undoubtedly funded by the "far right"

Gotta keep those fun loving liberuls from taking the REAL meaning of Halloween (all day Bible study to rid the Earth of satan's demons) away.

[savemefromdumbya]

62. Children LOVE Halloween because the CANDY!

what is wrong with parents these days sure Halloween is the night of the 'dead' and is linked to witchcraft but we have been doing Halloween for years what's new? Children LOVE Halloween BECAUSE OF THE CANDY. OK?

[TygrBright]

66. I dunno about kids, but Halloween is starting to scare ME...

...because it's looking more and more like just another excuse for Megacorporate Kitschsales, Inc., to make vast profits.

Call me a party pooper or something, but when I was a kid (yeh, I know, blah-blah-blah, tune ol' granny out now...) our idea of "Halloween decorations" was a couple o' homemade jack o' lanterns, maybe some construction paper cutouts of black cats and spider webs, living room lights turned down way low, and "Monster Mash" on the record player.

Cost? Less than a buck, if you amortize the cost of the "Monster Mash" 45 rpm record over a few years, and assume you'll use old stubs of dining-room candles to light the jack o'lanterns. Time invested by busy working mom? Less than an hour. Kids' involvement? Plenty-- we cut out the construction paper, drew the jack o'lantern faces for her to cut out, etc.

Now I walk through the stores and just marvel at the amount of money people are apparently spending on incredibly elaborate displays with electronic effects, etc. Message kids are getting? "The winner is the one with the fanciest, most expensive creepy decorations, kids, so bug yer parents for the genuine light-up, motion-activated, arm-waving six-foot zombie figurine!"

Man, let adults take over a holiday and they wreck everything. We used to have more fun in our tacky cobbled-together homemade costumes with a couple rolls of TP and some soap, I think. Back then, it wasn't about how realistic you could make the gore and fake dismembered body parts look, it was about helling around with your buds after dark in a mask, getting CANDY by the pillowcase, and who could TP the principal's big maple tree first.

nostalgically,
Bright

[Terran]

67. Gads, what utter crap.

Candy and freedom and going out at night and dressing up--that's all Halloween is for kids. It adds up to something special, but there is very little of death about. They can watch stuff on TV any day of the year that is a thousand times "scarier". I watch a lot of Cartoon Network, and some of the stuff one sees there these days...yikes.

[ninkasi]

68. My two brothers closest in age to me..

WE were all born in the 40s, loved Halloween, and scary movies, and things like that. We dressed up, and went around thinking it was the greatest thing in the world, to just walk up to the house of somebody we had known all of our lives, and be given CANDY, just for being dressed up. We thought it was great.

My kids loved Halloween, my grandkids loved it, and I'm sure my great granddaughter will enjoy it when she's old enough...18 mothhs is too young to appreciate it. Why are we taking the wonder and magic of childhood away from our young ones?

[silverpatronus]

69. i HATE halloween

i don't like scary, and i hate dress-up.

[jpgray]

71. I fucking loved Halloween as a kid

By far my favorite holiday as a boy. If you are scared by Halloween as a child--really--I pity you.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

72. As the parent of a highly sensitive 7 year old

I call bullshit on this statement:

"Kids as young as six and seven, however, don't differentiate between real death and the store-bought skeleton figures hanging in the trees and fake tombstones on the grass."

They may not differentiate if their parents don't teach them that Halloween is pretend, especially if some fundy is filling his/her kid's head full of fire and brimstone crap. But how much of a brain does it take to teach this to kids at an early age?

I've walked with my kid on Halloween since he could walk. When he was really little, we went out while the sun was still out, and only visited the next door neighbors. I always let him know that he doesn't have to go if he doesn't want to, and that he can return when he's ready. I point out different costumes, and make comments like, "Haha! I'm glad that monster isn't real! How about you?"

Invariably, the scariest monsters are the handful of people who leave their porch lights on (as the town asks participants to do) and yell, "We don't believe in Halloween!" when the kid knocks on their door.

I just tell my boy that they're being grouches for Halloween.

[JVS]

73. What's a holiday without "Pant-shitting terror"?

[Judi Lynn]

74. Here's a Halloween story you won't see on tv news!

Suicide Mistaken for Halloween Decoration

By Associated Press
October 27, 2005, 7:10 PM EDT

FREDERICA, Del. -- The apparent suicide of a woman found hanging from a tree went unreported for hours because passers-by thought the body was a Halloween decoration, authorities said.

The 42-year-old woman used rope to hang herself across the street from some homes on a moderately busy road late Tuesday or early Wednesday, state police said.

The body, suspended about 15 feet above the ground, could be easily seen from passing vehicles.

State police spokesman Cpl. Jeff Oldham and neighbors said people noticed the body at breakfast time Wednesday but dismissed it as a holiday prank. Authorities were called to the scene more than three hours later.
(snip/...)

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-brf-woman-hanged,0,7012793.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[cynatnite]

75. We've been careful with our kids...

Our middle one when she was around seven insisted on going into a haunted house. We talked to her, but she still wanted to go.

Did fine for a little while until a ghoul jumped out. It scared her and she started crying. The guy took his mask off and gave her candy. After talking to her, she was fine.

Our little boy isn't afraid of anything. He's bugs, scary movies and declaring anything that doesn't move as being dead. :rofl: It's really funny.

[baron j]

76. It must be too scary because of all the rubber Bush masks.

Seriously, the shopping day after Thanksgiving at a mall, "Black Friday"--now that is scary!

[NMMNG]

77. WTF?

Give me a break. I grew up loving Halloween and it never had any associations with death :eyes:. This sounds like more fundy-take-the-fun-out-o-life crap if you ask me.

[chat_noir]

78. scary Santa

How many times have we seen kids being forced to sit on Jolly Old Saint Nick's lap, and screaming their heads off.

Found a phototsite called "Scared of Santa"

Nothing says Happy Holidays like a photo of sweet little toddlers screaming at Santa.

http://www.southflorida.com/events/sfl-scaredsanta,0,2245506.photogallery?coll=sfe-events-headlines&index=1

[bklyncowgirl]

79. Oh give it a rest.

Kids today are so damn overprotected it is ridiculous.

They're driven to playgrounds that have been systematically removed of anything remotely dangerous--or interesting--to play on deep cushioned surfaces just in case one of them falls. They're laden down with helmets and knee pads. They will never know the simple joy of wandering around aimlessly through the woods with friends or riding double with a pal on a bike.

You can't let the little darlings trick or treat because that old guy across the street might be a child molester. You're terrified that someone might put rat poison in the candy--although there has never been a documented case of actually anyone doing so--they are not allowed to gobble down their loot until Mom or Dad inspects it.

Whatever happened to common sense? If your kid is easily frightened maybe you should wait a few years to take him on that haunted hayride where the Texas chainsaw massacre guy jumps on the wagon and threatens to dismember passengers.

Know your kid and he or she will be just fine.

[blindpig]

84. Things have changed since I was a kid.

Monsters and horror back then were Lon Chaney Jr, Christopher Lee, Peter Cushing and the older stuff like Bela Lugosi. Not nearly so graphic, though the same themes are certainly there. If some kids find it too scary it may have to do with today's imagery. Now, young kids who are not fazed by current day slash and gore flicks, that's scary.

[Bridget Burke]

88. This might be true for SOME kids...as the author says.

Let's hope that parents know their own children enough to judge how they should be introduced to Halloween. Casper the Friendly Ghost & the Great Pumpkin might be enough for some little ones.

Doctor Clark has also described how chronically ill children use their imaginations. I'm sure some close-minded sorts would object:

"My breathing machine takes ten thousand years. That's how slow it seems to me," said one young asthma sufferer. "Sometimes, I play games when I do my breathing machine. I pretend I have a friend who is a dragon, and the dragon breathes smoke. You know the steam coming from the machine? That's dragon smoke. Another game is, I have a toy airplane. I fly my airplane through the steam. I pretend to fly away, to a place away from this. That's really fun to pretend, getting up and away."

A young diabetic recalled: "I'm so sick of the kids at school asking me questions. I want to get on the loudspeaker just one time, and yell to everybody one time and have it done. " 'Listen,' I would yell. 'This is why I have to have a snack, and test my blood and get a shot and everything else. It's because of my diabetes. Stop asking me, okay?' "

www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2003/G/20034984.html

Of course, there are anti-Halloween nutcases out there; I wouldn't put it past them to twist Dr Clark's words.

One of the nutcases--this 20 year old who claims that Wiccans had caused Halloween celebrations to be removed from the schools:

www.renewamerica.us/columns/zeiger/041026

www.basicchristian.org/halloween.html

And that old favorite:

www.chick.com/seasonal/halloween/

[Bouncy Ball]

94. Imagination is SUCH a beautiful thing.

Having a mind that can imagine, make up stories and scenarios, was one of the best things I had growing up. I could just disappear into the stories in my head. I had a gazillion of them.

I seem to be way too busy as an adult to do that anymore, but I do still enjoy the odd weekend afternoon spent just daydreaming.

[chat_noir]

89. poll at The Boston Channel

A Newton, Mass., school canceled Halloween celebrations because some say it offends religious beliefs. Was the school right to cancel the holiday?

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/5189179/detail.html?subid=22100410&qs=1;bp=t

yes 9%
no 89%
unsure 2%

[ellie]

90. love Halloween!

I loved it as a kid and I still love it. My mom would make my brother's and my costumes then take pictures. Then we would go around the neighborhood getting as much candy as we could. Then we would come home and dump it in a big pile in the middle of the dining room table and pick out what we wanted.

One year, I accidently dragged my bag on the wet ground and lost all of my candy!

When we were very young, my dad would sneak out of work and take us. Years later, right before he died, he ran into his supervisor from work who asked him, "Are you still sneaking out on Halloween to take your kids trick or treating?" And to think he thought he was getting away with something all of these years! Ha!

I think it is sad that kids today can't have the same good experiences.

[Bouncy Ball]

93. Well, you know, honestly, I can SORTA see that.

When I was a kid, people didn't generally have or have easy access to fog machines and strobe lights. There were record albums of scary sounds, but very few houses even bothered with that. And you could do dry ice, but again, very few seemed to bother.

Nowdays, it's pretty easy to transform your front yard and porch into a mini-haunted house/cemetary. One house last year had the dad lie in a black wooden "coffin" and when kids walked up, he'd bust the lid off, jumping out and screaming (all done up in zombie makeup, of course).

Shit, I saw kids wet their pants over that. We're talking as young as four.

I NEVER saw that as a kid. I'll admit it, that would have scared the life out of me. I'm an adult and I jumped out of my skin when it happened last year (and I was half-expecting it).

Anyway, I think it's not bad enough for a bunch of hand-wringing over it. Parents can gauge their kids and their neighborhood and if there's a house they think is too much, skip it, you know?

Edited to add, the fundies are a bunch of pantywaists. If they don't like Halloween, let them stick to their Fall Festivals at their churches with no costumes. Leave Halloween to the rest of us. I just wanted to say I can SEE Halloween being objectively much scarier for little kids nowdays just because of the ease of setting up much scarier front porches nowdays.