Vote in Lou's poll. Why is he so obsessed with Mexican illegal immigrants?

[flpoljunkie]

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

Do you believe that every illegal alien caught in this country should be deported?

Yes
No

[SmokingJacket]

1. Weird: 0% and 0% nt.

[Ian David]

2. Done. But no numbers are showing up

Created: Tuesday, October 18, 2005, at 18:00:41 EDT
Do you believe that every illegal alien caught in this country should be deported?
Yes


0%
No


0%

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight

[joemurphy]

3. Because he's a simplistic bufoon who likes to pump his

ratings by pandering to American xenophobia about being innundated by Mexicans.

Lou also thinks Judy Miller is a martyr for First Amendment freedomes. Lou reportedly "will never forgive Fitzgerald" for jailing her for contempt.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. This is a rw nutcase diversion, all the while the whole manufacturing

sector has been shipped off to china. Illegals have been harvesting the crops since there have been farms.

[xultar]

5. Perhaps there are some lil Dobb-itos running around he's trying to hide.

[frogmarch]

6. Maybe part of the reason

Lou is obsessed is because he believes illegals take jobs from American citizens, and because taxpayers have to foot the bill for healthcare and other services and programs for illegals. In AZ alone, illegals cost taxpayers over $1.3 billion annually.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/columnists/guests/print_199848.html

[flpoljunkie]

11. Illegals pay state and federal taxes & SS which they'll probably never get

As for the jobs, I disagree that illegals take jobs from American citizens.

We need to raise hell and demand health care for all, instead of running for the hills when the Rethugs raise the boogey man of "socialized medicine."

If we were not throwing money at the Pentagon, over $455 billion in just one year, our government could provide health care, like the governments of every other industrialized nation in the world.

[frogmarch]

16. Yes, illegals pay some taxes, but

(from the link I posted above)

The average native-born-headed household in Arizona now bears more than $700 a year in additional costs to provide education to illegal aliens and their children, an estimated $810 million a year.

Health care for illegal immigrants, which threatens to bankrupt many Arizona hospitals and clinics, adds $400 million a year to the tab. Incarcerating illegal aliens costs Arizona taxpayers $80 million annually. Only a small fraction of these and other costs incurred by the state are offset by an estimated $257 million a year that illegal aliens pay in taxes to the state.

The costs are even higher than the total of these three cost areas, because there are a number of other expensive benefits received by illegal aliens that are not included in this calculation.

[Booster]

22. I agree. Here in So. CA hospitals are closing emergency rooms

left and right because of this. CA is also not reimbursed for housing illegals in prisons, which is the way it should be. I have sympathy for the illegals, but enough is enough, not to mention the fact that terrorists certainly can come across the border with no problem whatsoever. This subject is where liberals and moderates will never agree on, but remember they are "illegals" and you can't pick and choose the laws you want to enforce/ignore unless you consider yourself a Republican.

[joemurphy]

24. California is closing emergency rooms also because

California won't raise taxes to pay for them. Illegals aren't the only people that use hospital emergency rooms.

And why house them in prisons? It's always struck me as silly that illegals that get picked up for some offense and get jailed have to serve time here at taxpayer expense before they're deported. Why not simply deport them instead of jailing them first?

[joemurphy]

27. The immigration laws are a massive joke.

I deal with them every day. I occasionally represent illegal aliens and asylum seekers in my law practice. Trust me on this. The immigration laws are an illogical hodgepodge of partisan nonsense. They are also an administrative nightmare. The Citizenship and Immigration Services Branch of the Department of Homeland Security is possibly the most inefficient agency in US government. Right up there with FEMA.

The immigration laws are irregularly enforced and routinely ignored every day. They remind me a lot of the situation during Prohibition. Enforcing bad laws merely for the sake of enforcing laws isn't much of an argument. Its like Javert trying to send Jean Valjean back to the galleys for stealing a loaf of bread. And what's the solution? "Deport all illegal aliens" -- Lou's latest pipe dream?

Addressing Mexican and Central American poverty on an intergovernmental level might do more to stem the tide of illegal immigration than giving a wink and a nod to border vigilantism (which isn't legal either and is something Lou also supports) or building a wall from Texas to California (something Lou also supports)

[flpoljunkie]

29. Thanks for your informed and well considered input, joemurphy.

[leesa]

48. This is nonsense. This is a convenient excuse for the collapse of our

medical system due to managed care and the greed of insurance companies and Big Pharma. No one, including those with insurance, are able to pay their exorbitant bills.

[Bridget Burke]

42. Find another source than FAIR

www.fairus.org/site/PageServer

They aren't even happy with LEGAL immigration.

[joemurphy]

15. One hears that a lot -- Illegal aliens cost the US taxpayer money.

It's true. Some of them receive free health care sometimes --just like a lot of poor Americans. But having the illegals here also keeps our food cheap and our construction costs down. The illegals also have taxes and social security deducted from their pay that the US and State governments pocket and that the aliens get little or no benefit from. This side of the cost-benefit analysis never gets put into the equation.

[unlawflcombatnt]

39. Exactly

Not only do they cost money in state government expenditures, but they reduce tax revenue. Some are not paying taxes. More importantly, however, they drive worker wages down and reduce the aggregate total of taxable wages. Even if all illegal immigrants paid taxes, they still reduce total tax revenue by decreasing average worker wages.

unlawflcombatnt
EconomicPopulistCommentary
___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Bridget Burke]

43. "Some are not paying taxes" ???

There's no State Income Tax here in Texas, so Sales Tax keeps going up. NOBODY can avoid paying it.

And Landlords pass increases in Property Tax on to their tenants. Or do you think they absorb the difference out of the kindness of their hearts?

[Tomee450]

45. I don't think its the fear

of jobs being taken from American citizens. I think among many whites there is a real fear of the browning of America and they are trying desperately to stop it. States like Texas, Georgia, California and Arkansas have a lot of Hispanic immigrants. I think New Jersey has also seen an increase. Some people are very upset over this.

[unlawflcombatnt]

49. Playing the "race" card again.

You're just re-stating the worn-out racism/xenophobia nonsense again. I don't care whether they are "brown" or not. But I do care about the addition of 10-20 million workers to our work force. I also care about the fact that between January 2001 and December 2004, the total number of nonfarm jobs declined by 5,000, while the workforce increased by 7-9 million. I do care about American wages being driven down by a constantly increasing surplus of workers in relation to available jobs. There aren't any "jobs Americans won't do." There are only employers who won't pay enough to hire Americans. Conservatives always tout free markets, until it comes to labor and wages.

Free markets dictate that if you can't hire enough workers at a given wage, raise wages. But Corporate America simply ignores the law, in order to bypass "overpaid" American workers. Employers may claim to be raising the wages of illegal aliens by breaking the law, but they're reducing the wages of Americans as well.

Do we really need more workers when we have less jobs?

unlawflcombatnt
EconomicPopulistCommentary
___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Tomee450]

51. You misunderstand.

I agree with everything you said. But I know that there really are some people who are afraid that the United States is becoming less white and they are opposed to immigration for that reason. There are still racists in this country,you know. I, too, am concerned about immigration as a lot of poor whites and blacks are adversely affected. It is untrue that immigrants take jobs no one else will do. African Americans did take those jobs which are becoming less and less available to them. Construction jobs that blacks used to do are now being doing by Hispanics. Blacks used to work in the fields, do landscaping and other forms of manual labor. That is how they earned their living. I am absolutely opposed to Bush's guest worker program which will have American workers and immigrants competing for the same job. So you are jumping on the wrong person. As for Lou Dobbs, I've watched him but no longer do. To me, he does appear to have a problem with race. I could be wrong, but don't think so. I came to this conclusion after observing him for a while.

[NoAmericanTaliban]

7. Outsourcing & illegal immigrants are Lou's big points

& also how the middle class is being decimated while politician do nothing. He attacks Bush from the right side - illegal immigrants, outsourcing, corporate fraud, - which is starting to add up . It is interesting to use these arguments against Bush with his supporters. Not much they can refute.

[joemurphy]

17. His thing about illegals taking "American" jobs is

only half true. Talk sometime to construction company owners about why they hire Mexicans. It isn't simply because they work cheaply. Most pay them what they'd pay Americans. They like them because they work like dogs and they show up every day.

Personally, most of the Mexicans I've come to know are people who would be wonderful additions to the citizenry of this country. They aren't much different than my Croatian grandfather that used to work for $5.00 a week for the local gas company. Oh...right...he came here legally and the Mexicans snuck across the border. Big deal.

[howmad1]

31. Wonder if the big mouth would be willing to pick lettuce for .....

.....a couple of weeks for $5.00/hour and no benefits? Or how about putting roofs on houses in Arizona in August. Bet he can't wait to trade his salary for an illegals' for a few weeks.

[Leilani]

46. For your info

Lou Dobbs put himself through school picking produce in Cal.

He is not against Mexicans, he's against "illegal immigration."

[Der Blaue Engel]

8. It's now 91% yes

I believe everyone in the Bush administration should be caught and deported.

[joemurphy]

18. Good idea. Strip them of their citizenship!!! I like it! n/t

[bonito]

9. My feelings

what's happening is they are being put to work for cheap labor and undermining existing wages among citizens, bringing hard feelings for them, and that is the injustice that is troubling for me.

[flpoljunkie]

13. Cheaper than what folks make working at Wal-Mart with no healthcare?

[Der Blaue Engel]

23. Sadly, yes

You can pay an undocumented worker dirt. Who's going to complain? Wal-Mart, as unscrupulous as it is, still has to abide by minimum-wage laws in the US.

[bonito]

25. Unfortunately

yes. Here in fl. new home construction is big and has been for years. What happens is you get one person with legal paperwork that shows up on the job with six illegals doing the work in 1/2 the time as 1 or 2 people used to do and being paid less for it. don't get me wrong I have nothing but compassion for my brothers.

[William769]

10. Thanks for the link. I happen to agree with him on this.

Yes 91% 718 votes

No 9% 71 votes
Total: 789 votes

[0007]

12. A no brainer poll | n/t

[davidinalameda]

14. done

Do you believe that every illegal alien caught in this country should be deported?

Yes 91% 718 votes

No 9% 71 votes


ask the heads of the big agri-businesses and I'll bet they say no as well

[readmylips]

19. I agree, send all those Cubans back home....

Allow Floria to become part of the US again.

[joemurphy]

21. LOL Fat Chance. n/t

[pinto]

20. U.S. Immigrants' Health Costs Far Below Native-Born

U.S. Immigrants' Health Costs Far Below Native-Born

Study refutes notion that newcomers take advantage of system

By Randy Dotinga
HealthDay Reporter

WEDNESDAY, July 27 (HealthDay News) -- Countering the belief that immigrants to the United States use more than their share of health-care resources, a new study finds that just the opposite is true.

According to research released this week, data suggest that the average immigrant consumes several hundred dollars less a year in health costs, on average, than the typical native-born citizen. Most strikingly, the researchers say health-care costs for the poorest immigrant children are 84 percent below those of native-born kids.

On that front, "we found a really grave disparity," said study co-author Dr. Sarita Mohanty, an assistant professor of medicine at the University of Southern California, Los Angeles.

According to Mohanty, the research team launched the study to combat the belief that immigrants take advantage of the American health-care system. "We thought there were a lot of popular misconceptions," she said.

The researchers looked at the results of a 1998 federal survey of more than 21,000 people, including more than 2,800 immigrants. The findings appear in the August issue of the American Journal of Public Health .

More information

Learn more about immigrant health care options at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services .

SOURCES: Sarita Mohanty, M.D., M.P.H., assistant professor, medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles; Mita Sanghavi Goel, M.D., instructor, medicine, Northwestern University, Chicago; August 2005 American Journal of Public Health

Copyright © 2005 ScoutNews LLC . All rights reserved.


http://www.hon.ch/News/HSN/527073.html

[flpoljunkie]

30. Thanks for reporting this, pinto. A must read.

[deadparrot]

26. done. nt

[doc03]

28. Thanks for the link I think he is right also

I just don't understand what part of "illegal" people don't understand. The Republican's want the illegals in this country to keep wages down and somehow Democrats think they are going to get their votes. How are we going to get votes from people who are illegal and can't vote? I think though the people that provide them with the jobs should be punished. If you don't think they force wages down, we had a case here recently where some illegals were suspected of a crime and they admitted they were being paid under the table for construction jobs at a Walmart store. They said they were being paid $1200 a month working as Ironworkers. The going rate for a union Ironworker is probably at least 4 times that amount also these people are not paying in to federal, state or local income taxes or SS. It was reported that the fine for hiring an illegal was $100 to a maximum of $1000 dollars, what deterant is that for the people that provide the jobs for them. For national security reasons alone we have got to protect our borders.

[unlawflcombatnt]

32. Why Lou is "Obsessed"

Maybe it's because between January of 2001 and December of 2004 the United States had a net job loss of 5,000 jobs, but a net increase in workers of 7-9 million. http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?data_tool=latest_numbers&series_id=CES0000000001

Maybe he realizes that increasing the number of workers tremendously without increasing jobs any causes wages to decline. Maybe Lou is aware of these numbers and realizes there are NO jobs Americans won't take, there are only employers who won't pay enough to hire Americans. After all, how could there possibly be any new jobs that "Americans won't take" if there are less jobs now than when the Bush junta seized power.

Maybe Lou is just a little more concerned about the plight of American workers than others are. Given that inflation-adjusted hourly wages are less than they were in February of 2001, maybe Lou figures that 7-9 million new workers has increased the supply of workers enough to drive wages down.

Maybe he thinks American workers should have 1st crack at American jobs, instead of illegal immigrants who will work for less. Maybe he thinks our economy will be hurt if aggregate consumer income is driven down by an excess "supply" of workers. I think most economists would agree with him on that. I'd have to agree with him as well.

unlawflcombatnt
EconomicPopulistCommentary
___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[doc03]

35. This subject comes up frequently on DU

and if you are against illegal immigration you get labeled a racist. When they say Americans won't do those jobs it simply means they won't work that cheap. Americans would pick fruit if they were paid the wages the market would dictate. The Republicans and sadly some Democrats don't believe in the free market when it comes to the common laborer. Americans see nothing wrong with a ball player or a CEO getting paid millions but they want someone to work for pennies so they can have cheap groceries.

[unlawflcombatnt]

38. I completely agree

You're absolutely right. If you oppose illegal immigration, you're labeled a racist. But in reality it makes no difference whether the immigrants are from Mexico, Europe, or Africa. They increase the supply of workers and decrease wages as a result. It has nothing whatsoever to do with race, and everything to do with the total number of workers.

The United States cannot continue to import labor and export jobs. Hourly real wages are at their lowest level since January 2001. Wages are low because the increased demand for workers has not kept pace with the increasing supply. This drives down the wages of all legal residents, especially those of Mexican-Americans, since they suffer the most from competition with illegal immigrants.

Macro-economically, the aggregate wage suppression of all American workers causes decreased aggregate consumer income. This results in decreased consumer spending, decreased consumer demand for production, and decreased demand for labor to provide that production. The latter causes still further decline in wages. Wages will continue to stagnate if America keeps reducing labor demand (by exporting jobs) and by increasing labor supply (by allowing unrestricted immigration.)

It's time for liberals, progressives, and populists to realize that open borders are hurting working Americans and helping Corporate America.

unlawflcombatnt
EconomicPopulistCommentary
___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[McCamy Taylor]

33. Cause GE/MSNBC uses illegals/outsources manufacturing and

they are the competition. MSNBC never does stories on illegals and outsourcing.

[stillcool]

34. Yes, and every company that hires...

illegals to save on their payroll should what? Hire another?

[murray hill farm]

36. If you all get a chance,

rent the movie "A day without a Mexican"...!

[flpoljunkie]

50. Thanks, mexicopat, I will. It sounds intriguing. More on movie below.

http://www.adaywithoutamexican.com/index1.htm

California is in shock. The economic, political and social implications of this disaster threaten the Golden State’s way of life. We delve into the lives of four characters: Mary Jo Quintana, teacher and housewife; Senator Abercrombie, suddenly upgraded to Governor; Louis Mcclaire, ranch owner and agribusiness representative; and Lila Rodriguez, reporter and apparently the only Latina left behind. For all of them, “the disappearance” forces the cracks in their private lives wide open.

Experts pose questions and offer theories: Could this be a UFO kidnapping? Biological terrorism? The Apocalypse and Latinos are the chosen ones? Or perhaps they just left because they were tired of being taken for granted.

As time goes by, the State continues to deteriorate: Garbage has taken over the streets and tears are permanently painted on the faces of most citizens as the 5th largest economy in the world tumbles. The realization that what has disappeared is the very thing that keeps the “California Dream” running – cooks, gardeners, policemen, nannies, doctors, farm and construction workers, entertainers, athletes, as well as the largest growing market of consumers – has turned Latinos and their return into the number one priority in the State.

Of course there are those who disagree. A baseball inscribed with hate and ignorance, is tossed at Lila Rodriguez. The last hope for answers has been destroyed. But as despair turns into quiet sorrow, deeply felt memories and heartfelt appreciation yield unexpected results.

Misunderstandings and humorous situations abound, making this a comedic satire…a modern fable, lesson included.

[nickshepDEM]

37. Voted Yes.

If you come to this country illegaly you should be sent back and go through the process like the millions who have waited their turn to become legal U.S. citizens.

[Adelante]

40. I am in favor of LEGAL immigration

Illegal immigration is good for nobody. Mexico, by the way, has very stringent immigration laws and enforces them. Mexico is very busy rooting out South American illegals, and no, it's not just because the US wants them to. Mexico will deport Americans and Canadians and Europeans whose papers are not in order. Foreigners are not allowed to work in Mexico if it is a job needed for a Mexican. Foreign residents are right now not being issued working papers by Mexio City, at all, because of complaints by Mexican citizens about their jobs being taken by non-citizens.

We should do the same.

We should straighten out the mess our legal immigration system has become and enforce border security. I am not opposed to a guest worker program or an amnesty, but I would like to know that somebody in our government has some frigging idea of who is in the country. So I would have to say, yes, illegal aliens should be deported for breaking the law. Employers should be heavily fined. Until such time as we have a functioning immigration system, it's the best we can do.

[Rambis]

41. Quick come up with another hot button issue

our numbers suck so quick pick a group to discriminate against or attack. Typical thug bullshit yet again

[Bridget Burke]

44. Yup.

It's easier than attacking the fat cats who keep getting tax cuts while our lower & middle classes suffer.

[Freddie Stubbs]

47. Americans are usually concerned about 'fairness'

And many believe that it is unfair that many come into the illegally while others have to wait to do it legally.