Just saw the smartest Dem candidate tear apart CNN's Blitzer

[RBHam]

Dennis Kucinich is the ONLY candidate that can be trusted. He's the ONLY candidate that can see through the liesa and deception that the Shadow Government's Black Ops operatives are constantly flogging.
It saddens me that the only truly progressive and inspirational candidate running for President is continually marginalized and dismissed by DEMOCRATS!

Kucinich is the only candidate with a workable exit strategy for the Iraq debacle.

Kucinich is the only candidate who would actually try and find out the TRUTH behind 9-11, because he's the only candidate who isn't in the pocket of the Corporate Reich.

But it looks like the Neo-Con fix is in. Looks like John Kerry, Skulls and Boner, will be up against George W Bush, another S & Ber...

http://www.fleshingoutskullandbones.com /

In other words, the fake War Of Terror will continue on, unabated, no matter who wins.

After all, the S & Bers are huge proponents of a Fascist one world Government.

Unless John Kerry stands up and absolutely divorces himself from this secret society and blows the whistle on these scurrilous bastards. I'LL NEVER TRUST HIM.

A Democracy is no place for a coterie of individuals who work both sides of the aisle, allied through a secret pact, to stealthily advance a totalitarian agenda with no accountability.

[krkaufman]

1. Not really, but DK *did* kick Wolf's ass

Duplicate thread

Much more discussion here:
kuch coming up with wolfe on cnn

[barbaraann]

2. I am SO with you.

Unfortunately, a lot of informed people I know haven't even heard of Skull and Bones.

[seventhson]

3. I agree

but I think Dean is an alternative too.

[MercutioATC]

4. Well, opinions differ...

1) I don't think he's the ONLY candidate that can be trusted. Other candidates have been whistleblowers in the past.

2) His "exit strategy" is based on an assumption that the U.N. will throw a hundred thousand or so troops into Iraq. I don't call that "workable", I call it "wishful thinking", especially given the timeframe he's talking about.

3) Edwards doesn't accept business PAC contributions, so I'd hardly say he was "in the pocket of the Corporate Reich".

I agree that Kerry doesn't strike me as somebody who will effect substantive change, but I really have doubts about Kucinich's ability to accomplish even a small fraction of what he plans (especially with a Republican Congress).

[Terwilliger]

10. oh come on...what Dem is going to get ANYTHING through this Congress?

I have a problem with your Number 2: The UN WOULD in fact move quickly to put troops in there....as soon as the US gives up control and decision-making authority for business plans and oil deals. The rest of the world has ALWAYS done what the US wanted them to do, EXCEPT now...because Bush's pre-emption, go-it-alone doctrine (and the fact that he still marginalizes the UN even as he's desperate for their help) has soured the UN and many of the countries who could help us the most, we're now facing a quagmire brought about by our own arrogant ways.

Kucinich brings a real alternative to the table.

[MercutioATC]

11. I really don't think Dean will have a problem with his healthcare plan

making it through Congress relatively intact. It's nothing new, just an extension of already-existing programs. Besides, what Congressman is going to want to face "It's the right health plan for YOU, why don't you think your constituents should have it?"

I agree that we'd get help from the U.N. if we opened up the rebuilding contracts and political control to other nations, but I don't think they'd participate to that large a degree in the military aspect. I also REALLY don't see it happening as fast as Kucinich envisions.

[emulatorloo]

14. Remember Clinton? He had a tough time getting rolling . . .

It seemed to take Clinton about a year and a half to figure out how to get things done.

Gov. Dean could also be at a disadvantage because of how negative he has been about "Washinton Insiders" during his campaign. Maybe Congress will remember that and not be in a mood to cooperate.

I don't think any of those things are insurmountable, but President Dean is going to have a tough row to hoe for a while.

[MercutioATC]

23. Clinton didn't keep it simple. Dean's just expanding existing programs.

I'm not saying that it won't run into any opposition, but I think it's definitely doable.

[youngred]

28. and how did he get it rolling

by selling progressives out to the DLC after losing badly in 94

[Terwilliger]

20. The US congress gets single-payer health care

you're right...that plan will pass through congress

[MercutioATC]

22. The U.S. Congress does NOT have single-payer. I have the same plan they

have (FEHBP). It's NOT single-payer.

[Terwilliger]

25. is it paid for with American taxpayer dollars?

Then I'd say it's single-payer...no matter the actual logistics

Our congresspeople are allowed to be sick whenever and for whatever reason and they'll have everything paid for, and probablya cherry on top.

This is all suggesting that the Republicans will do it just because they have it themselves. Appealing to their vanity has not worked before, and the American people seem to have a WIDE DISMISSAL of anything that Repukes do wrong.

I'm sorry...each Dem candidate will have a closed brick wall dealing with Congress...not one Dem over anouther (unless you'd like to advocate that Lieberman should be the president)

[MercutioATC]

31. That's not the definition of single-payer. FEHBP uses private

insurers (HMO, PPO and PPV). THAT'S why it'll be so easy to pass. No reason for the insurance companies to lobby against it.

Once everybody (or nearly everybody) is covered, we can explore single-payer health insurance.

As far as it being paid for by the taxpayers for congressmen, I have no idea. I'd assume that they do pay some kind of premium, as I do (the government picks up the majority of the premium, though).

[eridani]

32. Private is the problem

They don't mind insuring employed people because on the whole they are much healthier than the general population. Tell them they have to include all the actual sick people in their risk pool, and they'll say "Screw you" or jack the premiums up to unaffordable levels.

[MercutioATC]

34. Employed people are healthier because they HAVE insurance

and get preventative care. Kinda makes the argument circular.

Besides, Dean's plan caps the customer-paid (as opposed to the portion the government will pay) premium to 7.5% of adjusted gross income. That's a maximum, not an average.

[eridani]

39. Not really

There are quite a few people whose access to the employment market is limited by health problems in the first place.

[MercutioATC]

44. That's true, but it doesn't change my point: premiums will be capped.

[no name no slogan]

37. With private for-profit insurance, everybody will NEVER be covered

The whole purpose of the private system is to MAKE MONEY for its shareholders-- and it DOES NOT make money for its shareholders when it takes on risky clients.

People like me with pre-existing conditions are nearly impossible to insure-- insurance companies do not want to assume the risk.

And they NEVER WILL assume the risk, as long as they are in business to make a PROFIT.

Over 60% of Americans want government-funded single-payer universal health coverage-- and 50% of Republicans do, too, according to Pew research. Even big business is getting on board with the idea, because it ends up costing them LESS money to provide GREATER benefits to their employees.

For example, Kucinich's plan would impose a 7% tax on employers, which can be split with employees. Compare that to the 12% employers paid last year for their share of health care coverage-- it's a bargain for employers!

And with DK's plan, we're not talking about "insurance", with ever-increasing premiums for ever-shrinking coverage. We're talking FULL COVERAGE for EVERYONE.

That's why we need TRUE universal single-payer health care. And we need it NOW.

[MercutioATC]

45. Learn the plans before you criticize them. FEHBP has NO exclusion

for pre-existing conditions. THAT'S one of the things that makes it so desirable.

[redqueen]

5. Agree completely

But don't forget, bush could still 'win' again.

And I'm starting to think that this is more and more likely.

[zulchzulu]

6. Is this a Saturday Night Live skit you've been working on?

It is very funny! The part about the Shadow Government's Black Ops operatives is classic!

Party on, Garth!

[Gin]

7. I thought Wolfe was exceptionally rude to DK....in the end Dennis

came off the better man...but it pissed me off to hear Wolf be so arrogant.

[zulchzulu]

13. I haven't taken Blizter seriously since Gulf War I

I worked at a TV station during that time and he was the lead shill to the Pentagon then.

[worldgonekrazy]

19. Read/watch Bill Moyers' "The Shadow Government"

Its more than a decade old, but still salient today as he exposes the shadow government that truly runs this country. He uses the example of the Iran-Contra affair to show how the shadow government works, but there are plenty of other examples out there.

After you read that (or just read up on Iran-Contra), then come back and say that.

[justsam]

8. i liked yesterday

when Blitzer had Dean on and said something about his screaming in Iowa, Dean said something about not telling the media to play it 1746 times..

[sventvkg]

9. Kerry is such a Fake POS..Skull and Bones fix is certainly in...

But I think we can over come it...DEAN OR CLARK!!! Outsiders are our only hope...Yea, Like Kerry gives a flying F@#$ about the typical working American!!! LOLOLOL!!! Thats a funny one!!..

[Snivi Yllom]

12. dunno, Dean kicked his ass up and down the block

the other day regarding CNN playing the I have a scream speech over 600 times.

[emulatorloo]

15. DK Rocks!

but lighten up on the tin-foil, please Any of the big 4 will do a much better job than W, and if you study JKs career, there really isn't much that supports that he is a secret agent for the neo-cons.

[bigtree]

16. Give 'em hell Dennis!

Good luck tonight! :hippie:

[kiahzero]

17. Are the Illuminati secretly running the world through the Masons?

This kind of BS is usually reserved for LaRouche supporters.

[Terwilliger]

21. your ad hominem rings hollow

when you find nothing to disagree with the original post about

[kiahzero]

29. How's this, then?

Kucinich is the only candidate with a workable exit strategy for the Iraq debacle.

Um.. "UN in, US out" is hardly a workable strategy when the UN wants no part of it.

Kucinich is the only candidate who would actually try and find out the TRUTH behind 9-11, because he's the only candidate who isn't in the pocket of the Corporate Reich.

Any substantiation for this, or just more conspiracy theorist language... describe how others are "in the pocket of the Corporate Reich."

But it looks like the Neo-Con fix is in. Looks like John Kerry, Skulls and Boner, will be up against George W Bush, another S & Ber...

John Kerry is hardly a neo-con. Look at his voting record.

And don't say "IWR! IWR!"... he's been in office for more than a year.

Unless John Kerry stands up and absolutely divorces himself from this secret society and blows the whistle on these scurrilous bastards. I'LL NEVER TRUST HIM.

A Democracy is no place for a coterie of individuals who work both sides of the aisle, allied through a secret pact, to stealthily advance a totalitarian agenda with no accountability.

Seeing as it is a secret society, how do you know anything about it? The reason that I brought up Masons earlier is that this is the exact same rhetoric. I know Masons personally - they basically go to the halls and drink beer. No totalitarian agenda involved.

[no name no slogan]

41. Your reply

Kucinich is the only candidate with a workable exit strategy for the Iraq debacle.

Um.. "UN in, US out" is hardly a workable strategy when the UN wants no part of it.

Wrong you are. DK's strategy is nearly identical to the one put forth by Kofi Annan and the western European powers. The UN is willing to take over the operation, IF THE US RELINQUISHES ITS CONTROL of Iraq.

Kucinich is the only candidate who would actually try and find out the TRUTH behind 9-11, because he's the only candidate who isn't in the pocket of the Corporate Reich.

Any substantiation for this, or just more conspiracy theorist language... describe how others are "in the pocket of the Corporate Reich."

Dennis Kucinich's campaign HAS NOT TAKEN ONE CENT of corporate money. Let me repeat that: NONE. NADA. NOTHING. Even Dean's campaign got started with $110,000 from corporate energy concerns in Vermont.

As far as the S&B tinfoil hat crap, I really don't care. And neither should you! :D

[worldgonekrazy]

18. I don't trust Kerry either

What REALLY did it for me was the IWR vote. Here is a guy who fought in Vietnam and really ought to know just how damaging retarded foreign policy endeavors are...yet he voted for the Iraq War. What the fuck? It does not add up. And I don't believe he was duped by Bush because I think Kerry is much smarter than that.

[economic justice]

24. Funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"The fix is in"
"Skull and Boners"
"Fake war on terror"
"Allied through a secret pact"
"Fascist one-world government"
"Shadow Government's Black Ops operatives"

And these people are all reptiles from an alien planet, right? The kooky fringe on both sides of the political spectrum is comic relief. These kinds of things just crack me up.

[Terwilliger]

26. fascist one-world govt...isnt that what conserva Dems claim will happen

if I dont hold my nose this year?

So WHATS it gonna BE? Bush is a bad-guy or he isn't?? Make up your mind!

[economic justice]

27. Bush IS a bad guy

But some of us think he is a bad guy without thinking he wants a fascist one-world government. That's a zero-eighty stretch.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

30. Dennis kicked butt... another smart one (Clark) coming up.

n/t

[genius]

33. I'm for Kucinich. But Kerry's the second most liberal. This is good

news for our side. A lot of people belong to stupid groups. Kerry would probably like to forget about the S & B Society. Kerry is very close to Dennis on a lot of things. Here's the scoop. The press is not going to give Dennis the notoriety to let him get the votes he deserves. So we have to back Dennis anyway so that when the north goes for Kerry and the South goes for Clark and Edwards, Dennis will have enough delegates to unite everyone at the convention. The convention-goeres will know Dennis and everyone likes Dennis. All the others have enemies and may not make it out of a brokered convention. But the Kucinich campaign needs to keep as positive and strong as possible. Lincoln was nominated on, I believe, the fourth ballot.

[iowapeacechief]

35. Watch the video at...

...http://www.corvusworld.com/kwolf.htm

[Myra]

36. You're so right. Kucinich is so right. About pert near everything.

Love ya DK.

[Edge]

38. I agree.

DK is a good man, has the best issues/values, and he is more trustable than Kerry.

I agree with your final statement, "A Democracy is no place for a coterie of individuals who work both sides of the aisle, allied through a secret pact, to stealthily advance a totalitarian agenda with no accountability."

But is there real proof that he's an S & Ber besides the website stated above? I don't know if I can trust him if he is...

[shivaji]

40. My brother-in-law was a doctor in the British health care system

and he will have no part of it. He has seen first hand how
inefficient, beauracratic and sub-standard it is. If everyone
of you who have a good health insurance now will be disgusted
after having to wait 3 years for a hip replacement.

[eridani]

42. Single payer is about government INSURANCE--

--care will continue to be privately provided. I'd rather wait 3 years for a hip replacement than be one of 18,000 to be killed from being denied life-or-death treatment.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. Six points

1) The Canadian and British health care systems are quite different. In the UK, doctors are government employees. In Canada they're independent contractors.

2) People without health insurance here in the U.S. wait their whole lives for hip replacements.

3) I belonged to an HMO in Oregon, and I had to wait two months for a routine annual exam, which cost me $75 when I was paying $250/month premiums. Then I had to wait another two months for a mammogram, which cost $20.

4) Here in Minnesota I am unable to find an affordable health insurance program with a less than $1500 deductible.

5) I know Americans who have received emergency treatment in England, the Netherlands, Norway, Canada, and Costa Rica, all countries with national health care. All of them reported that the treatment was excellent and either free of charge or very cheap.

6) Given the above, waiting for a hip replacement,which is elective surgery of recent origin, and somehow, the only operation that's EVER mentioned when people criticize foreign medical systems, seems like a small price to pay. Now if you had to wait 3 years to have your appendix out, that might be serious, but if postponing my elective surgery means that other people can get their diabetes diagnosed and their kids immunized against serious diseases, it's definitely a very small price to pay.

[bigtree]

46. Hmm . . .

". . . a coterie of individuals who work both sides of the aisle, allied through a secret pact, to stealthily advance a totalitarian agenda with no accountability."

This would describe the authors of this smear at http://www.fleshingoutskullandbones.com/:

Antony C. Sutton, editor of an excellent monthly newsletter, Phoenix Letter, stated in the October, 1996 edition:
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/newstart/bohemian-grove/

“Up to a few months ago, our knowledge of Bohemian Grove, the exclusive elitist hideaway by supposedly adult wheeler dealers, a.k.a. Washington statesman and prominent people (all male).

We dismissed the behavior as immature, even pitiful, by emotionally disturbed juveniles and not worth attention. This is where Kissinger, Ford, Nixon, Bechtel, Bush, Cheney, Hoover and their friends (2600 members) hang out and “relax.” And if they want to behave as little boys that is their privilege, it is private property.

Recent information may radically change this perception of Bohemian Grove. Not merely drunkenness, unbounded use of alcohol and drugs with vague homosexual tones (confirmed by our sources) but reported activities much more serious – kidnapping, rape, paedophilia, sodomy, ritual murder. Investigation is blocked under the 1947 National Security Act.(!) and like the Omaha child abuse case, includes illegal detention of children.

For decades, there have been vague rumors of weird goings on in Bohemian Grove in more remote parts of its 2200 acres. Reliable reports claim Druidic like rituals - druids in red hooded robes marching in procession and chanting to the Great Owl (Moloch) - a funeral pyre with “corpses”. (Scores of men work in the Bohemian Grove as servants so this party is fairly well established.) :eyes:

___________________________________________________________________

CHARLOTTE ISERBYT served as Senior Policy Advisor in the Department of Education, during the first Reagan Administration, where she
blew the whistle on a major technology initiative which would control curriculums in America’s classrooms.

Iserbyt is a former school board director in Camden, Maine and was co-founder and research analyst of Guardians of Education (Organization taking a no-nonsense, Judeo Christian approach to the education of Maine's young people.)

Iserbyt is a speaker and writer, best known for her 1985 booklet Back to Basics Reform or OBE: Skinnerian International Curriculum and her 1989 pamphlet Soviets in the Classroom: America’s Latest Education Fad which covered the details of the U.S.-Soviet and Carnegie-Soviet Education Agreements

She is a freelance writer and has had articles published in Human Events, and The Washington Times.

_____________________________________________________________________

ANTON CHAITKIN is a founding member of the political movement associated with Lyndon LaRouche.

The OMEGA File
POPULATION CONTROL, NAZIS, AND THE U.N.! -- by Anton Chaitkin
ROCKFELLER AND MASS MURDER

"The ROCKEFELLER Foundation is the PRIME SPONSOR of public relations for the UNITED NATION'S drastic depopulation program, which the world is invited to accept at the UN's scheduled September conference in Cairo, Egypt. Evidence in the possession of a growing number of researchers in America, England, and Germany demonstrates that the Foundation and its CORPORATE, MEDICAL, and POLITICAL associates organized the racial MASS MURDER program of NAZI GERMANY.

____________________________________________________________________

CARL OGLESBY - During Thanksgiving weekend 1965, toward the end of one of the first major rallies against the Vietnam War, a student activist named Carl Oglesby addressed the Washington crowd. He did not simply criticize U.S. support of South Vietnam's military regime, but hailed its communist foes for mounting "as honest a revolution as you can find anywhere in history."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-03-04-freedman_x.htm

____________________________________________________________________

Toby Rogers wrote about how the Bush Family Wealth is Linked to the Jewish Holocaust.

_____________________________________________________________________

Webster Tarpley learned at the knee of ; has been a disciple and employee of Lyndon LaRouche for at least twenty five years.