How the Neocons keep getting Democrats to apologize.....

[Jade Fox]

Most of us liberals and Democrats want to be seen as the good guys--
open minded, fair, concerned. Republicans and conservatives mostly don't
give a rat's ass unless it's going to cost them votes or money.

So when the Bush Administration does some outrageous thing, and a
Democrat dares to criticize it too honestly, the Bushbots
go into their "outrage" mode and start saying the Dem is bad,
wrong, and just plain not nice. And it works. Democrats seem to have
a very hard time standing up to this, and the Neocons have learned to
play them like a pipe, and claim the part of the morally outraged for
Republicans.

The Democrats need to learn to tell it like it is, and then stand fast
during the inevitable shit-storm, and then come back with even more
criticism like Howard Dean did. Look how quickly the flap about
him died down because he didn't cave.

The Democrats also need to go on the offensive. That isn't "nice" either
but do it!!!

There is a good article over on Editorials related to this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x134637

[BillZBubb]

1. I agree completely!

I would add that the Democrats also need to learn the "seque" tactic: When you've made a statement that has been attacked, always use the attack to EXPAND on the original statement. Give examples of why the statement is true. Then show how it fits into the bigger picture as well. Fellow Democrats can do this without repeating the original statement if they feel it is too inflamatory. They don't have to comment on the original language at all.

Don't back down. Don't apologize. Always keep attacking. And any supposed Democrat who attacks another Democrat for making ANY statement critical of this regime deserves to find himself/herself under attack for being a DINO.

[deutsey]

2. The geniuses at the DNC haven't figured this out yet, apparently

:eyes:

[Jade Fox]

4. That seque tactic is an important addition!

I've seen people do that, and it works well. You use your the attention your
critic has focused on what you said to direct the argument where you
want it to go!

Geez, if we can figure out this stuff, why can't the Democrats??

[earthboundmisfit]

3. Yep. Keep telling the truth - LOUDLY

And quit ENABLING the Thugs by being POLITE.

[Rude Horner]

5. Excellent Point!

And I agree. Well put. I was totally pissed off that Durbin apologized for his remarks, and then Rove and the White House basically say "fuck you" when the Dems ask for an apology.

You're right. The shit-storm dies quickly. The Democrats need to stand-fast and remain united. When someone like Durbin makes a statement that's true, stand by it! - weather the inevitable Republican "you always pick on us" storm of outrage, and keep firing back at 'em!

[Jade Fox]

6. Thank you....

and welcome to DU! :hi:

[MSgt213]

7. When are our supposed leaders going to stand together on anything

We can't seem to learn that lesson no matter how many times the repubs beat us over the head with it. We always got some ass kisser going over to the dark side on this issue or another.

[I Have A Dream]

8. Great post! Kicked & recommended.

One thing that we all need to learn though is to not use the Nazi word. Someone here previously recommended "medieval torture chamber" as a way to appropriately describe what's going on in Abu Ghraib & Gitmo (as well as other places) right now. It really does describe what's going on without having the baggage associated with it that "Nazi" does.

[Jade Fox]

25. Yes, I agree....

making analogies to the Nazis doesn't work. Many people think instantly
(and sometimes only) of the death camps when they hear the word Nazi.
Its obvious Bush has not caused the deaths of 11 million people by
genocide, so we are discredited even if the comparison was carefully
thought out and accurate.

[TahitiNut]

9. Hyper-PC lefties help train the compliant to apologize.

It often seems to me that many liberals have been trained to apologize at the slightest provocation, a bit like a devout Catholic might cross himself. (It keeps the Devil away.)

"God forbid that anyone EVER say they're offended by something I say!" seems to be the prayer.

We see it on DU. I could refer to Iraq or Afghanistan or Viet Nam as "tar babies" for the Kapitalist Krusaders and I might become the target of PC-jihadists whose primary Meaning of Life is finding the mini-monsters of rascism, real or imagined, under any bed. So, it's Tora, Tora, Tora! Attack, attack, attack! (Never mind that a "bitch" really is a female dog/canine -- heaven forbid we use the word that way!)

Thus, we've learned it's better to quickly apologize despite having had no malicious intention whatsoever.

We cannibalize our own. We're trained!

[Jade Fox]

16. Good points.....

You remind me of something I have often thought about the left: That
we are more interested in being morally superior than we are in winning.
In fact, we have negative connotations connected with winning, as in
"if you suceed in this corrupt society, than you must be corrupt too!"
We extend that "correctness" to each other, and as you point out, are
forever raking each other over the coals real or imagined transgressions.

I think that obsession with moral correctness is why we apologize. But
we also do it because we genuinely desire to be on the side of justice
and what is right.

[rucky]

18. I am so sorry.

i feel like I'm part of the problem.


kidding.

Dem leaders: if you're not pissing some people off, you're not doing your job.

[MadisonProgressive]

10. I think Durbins will be the last apology

After Rove wouldn't apologize for those horrid statements, I can't imagine the Democrats apologizing for anything anymore!

[tavalon]

11. Perhaps you lack imagination

or, you are more optimistic than me.

[nicknameless]

12. They pressured Dems into apologizing for "politicizing" Wellstone's death,

then turned around and threw a week-long Repug Fest of Lies after Reagan's death.

[I Have A Dream]

14. I still don't understand how they performed that Judo move on us.

It was absolutely disgusting. For some reason, the American people hold us accountable for everything (even if not true), and it seems as though the Right can do anything without repercussions.

[nicknameless]

17. But isn't it the corporate, right-wing media that constantly hounds

the left, and ignores the misdeeds and high crimes of the right?

I really wonder how many American people actually believe them.
Media polls are skewed to the right.
Exit polls are ignored.
Democrats' votes are suppressed/flipped, etc.

It was the right-wing media that screamed about Wellstone's memorial.
It was the right-wing media that brought us the slobbering Lie-Fest after Reagan's death.
It was the right-wing media that concealed our stolen elections.
...and demonized Olbermann for airing what he did about the one in 2004.

"American Idiot" by Green Day was wildly popular for good reason.
I've just got to believe that the tide is turning in our favor ... at least as far as public opinion goes.

[I Have A Dream]

19. I hope that you're right about the tide permanently turning, nicknameless.

This back and forth stuff is making my physically ill. (As soon as I start getting my hopes up, the Right does something to get the upper hand again.)

Wake up America!

[nicknameless]

21. Well......I could never say "permanently"

but I really believe that people are waking up more and more.
Don't forget that Fox News ratings have dropped 58% since the last election.

Also a personal anecdote: One website I occasionally go to has a place for political postings. All the posts there used to be rabidly right-wing. Now there's just one person who posts NeoCon threads. And I've only seen one person reply to them (in agreement of course). That's a big shift from how things used to be. Anyway, I look at that as a sampling of public opinion.

Trying not to be Pollyanna, but hopeful. :)

[I Have A Dream]

22. I wish that I could say the same thing about where I work.

They're intelligent, good people, but they just refuse to see the truth. I try to do my part, but I've almost given up hope on them.

Thanks for the information, nicknameless.

[nicknameless]

23. Ugh. Very sorry to hear that your work envt. is like that.

I hope they come around soon. :pals:

[Burried News]

13. I see no mention of the ADL. How soon we forget?

Somewhere Abe Foxman is smiling.

[Ready2Snap]

15. Let's start by slamming them for the lies their rants are based on

Case in point--
Durbin asked the question --if you didn't know this was a report
from an FBI agent re: gitmo wouldn't you think it came from etc.,etc.

At no time did he call our soldiers nazis.
He was calling the tactics of the people interrogating those prisoners like those of the nazis.
A small but important distinction, that is if facts and truth are part of your ethos.

The rat bastards just made a two-word mental post-it out of it, like "death tax,"
and then did what comes naturally to them and screamed bloody murder
- fuck the facts - fuck the truth.
Remember their not part of the "reality-based community."
They make their own reality, don't ya know.

That Durbin didn't clarify that and then resume trashing the people the report critisized was his mistake.
Allowing the right-wing echo chamber to distort and twist our words is what must be stopped.
And that will only happen if we call them on their lies and distortions,
and preferably with the same gusto that they spew them!!

[Raksha]

20. You are so right!

Re >>That Durbin didn't clarify that and then resume trashing the people the report critisized was his mistake.
Allowing the right-wing echo chamber to distort and twist our words is what must be stopped.<<

He should have clarified (NOT apologized) and then gone right back on the offensive. We need to start building our OWN echo chamber!

[confludemocrat]

24. I like that: stand your ground, then hit them again

They then leave well enough alone because the focus would remain on what was said exactly if they kept up their echo-chamber tactics. They have since tried to ignore what Dean says, but they really can't because it is so on-the-mark.