Is anyone else upset that the nuclear option didn't happen? (semi-Rant)

[Stinky The Clown]

I had actually come to want them to do it. I had wanted to see the Fristians push the button. I had wanted to see every fucking slime ball efungelical wack-job on the networks gloating and babbling on. I was looking forward to Pat Mahoney, and Jimmy Dobson, and Timmy LeHaye, and Paddy Robertson, and Jerry Lee Falwell .... and every other fat, bloated, slimy, reptilian motherfucker of the far, far, far right fundie persuasion out there spewing spew and thumping bibles.

I was looking forward to the nation's mass nausea.

I was looking forward to righteously indignant Dems screaming like stuck pigs. I was looking forward to every fucking Dem in DC just .... leaving.

A Senate strike.

Back to their districts.

Talkin' shit and tellin' truth.

But nooooooo ......

We get Joemenutum all gloaty an' shit, huggin' Johnny Boy McCain.

I am of a mind that the best thing that could have happened would have been the nuclear option.

What we have now is even shittier than what we had before .... now .... if we decide to filibuster even one .... ONE ..... of their Nazi fucking nominees .... we're "uncooperative" .... we acted "in bad faith'.

Fuck that. We got sold out.

A Gallup poll released just today (yesterday? - I read in the Chicago Tribune, today's, page 8A) showed that 47% of adults want Dems in charge of Congress, with only 36% wanting Repubs. They were right down to their hardcore, ever faithful base. They had NO FUCKING POPULAR SUPPORT.

And we 'compromise' ........ feh

Well, they can kiss my fucking gnarly compromising old ass.

Fuck Moderation. I WANT NUCLEAR.

Instead .... we're gunna get what? Collegiality?

Dickwads .....

[unblock]

1. we passed up our best opportunity for confrontation

at some point a showdown would be nice, and might be inevitable.

would we rather have it on a more complex issue that the rw media can paint any way they want? or on a group of previously rejected judge appointments, which is about as nakedly partisan an issue as you can get?

[Stinky The Clown]

4. Thank you 'getting it"

This isn't a popular view in these parts these days

[CoffeeCat]

2. I'm with you...I wanted them to "go nuclear"...

...because the Reps would look like extremist freaks.

It's a real shame that it didn't happen. Truly.

America is waking up to the radical agenda of these clowns. However, they need a few good jolts to bring them to where most of us are. Frist "going nuclear" would have been a good jolt.

I'm also disappointed that ANY of these judges will be approved. They are all radicals and they deserve to be voted down. The Senate minority has the power to vote them down, via the filibuster and they should use it. There should be no shame in following the Constitution.

I'm disappointed that Frist doesn't have to walk the plank. If he's willing to usurp the Constitution--then I say--let him do it. And most importantly, let America see him doing it.

It's a shame it won't happen.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Thank you for 'getting it'

and for a cogent, insightful reply. It isn't a popular view 'round here, it seems.

[jayctravis]

13. But y'know...we don't want to see ANYONE go nuclear.

I would always hope a democratic principle is to prefer a mutual if grudging back away rather than scrapping it out.

Would have been a GREAT philosophy for the administration to have when they were planning war.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. I suppose we should also do some cheek turning, too .....

Look, here's Stinky The Clown's (me) quick leasson on life in Realityville .... they hate us. Y'hear me?

Hate.

They are in a scorched earth frame of mind.

They are out, fully and everlastingly, to destroy liberalism.

They will give no quarter.

WE? We have no power. None.

You wanna win? Ya gotta go for the jugular. Bicycle chains and switchblades in the schoolyard. Zip guns all around. Pipes. Brass knuckles.

And a nuclear bomb.

[babylonsister]

3. I'm satisfied that the filibuster was saved

for another day and the freepers, pundits, et. al, have been going nuts. Truly! As a minority party, I think we did great!

FWIW, perhaps the stem cell bonus today was a result. I pray so because I have a vested interest.

As for Bolton (a major thorn in my side):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/24/politics/24cnd-bolton...

<snip>
In the letter, Mr. Voinovich said that while he had been "hesitant to push my views on my colleagues" during his years in the Senate, he felt "compelled to share my deep concerns" about Mr. Bolton's nomination.

"In these dangerous times, we cannot afford to put at risk our nation's ability to successfully wage and win the war on terror with a controversial and ineffective ambassador to the United Nations," Mr. Voinovich wrote. He urged colleagues to "put aside our partisan agenda and let our consciences and our shared commitment to our nation's best interests guide us."
<snip>

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. "for another day" is the key, though. How many days until they pull this

again? Frist is still threatening it.

[Internut]

11. If you bluster, filibuster, then back down and cave in

the next time you try to do it you'll just look stupid. Also - before this, the decision to filibuster was made by Democrats. Now the decision will be made by a "committee" of 7 D and 7 R senators. How much do you want to bet that the "extraordinary circumstances" will ever be accepted by all 14? And if not - we're back to "nuclear option", with the added ammunition of "Democrats broke the agreement".

[babylonsister]

18. Relax,! You got me going again, way after the fact.

I think you think too much or haven't been thinking long enough! I applaud your passion, sort of.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. Thank you for 'getting it'

Yup.

We got punk'd.

By our own side.

[Clark2008]

12. Frist is possessed and is already ignoring the agreement:

Last night, Frist indicated he would abide by the agreement:

"Mr. President, a lot has been said about the uniqueness of this body. And, indeed, our Senate is unique. And we all, as individuals and collectively as a body, have a role to play in ensuring its cherished nature remains intact.

And, indeed, as demonstrated by tonight’s agreement and by the ultimate implementation of that agreement, we have done just that."


But Congress Daily PM reports that Frist has other ideas for later in the week:

"Senate Majority Leader Frist will file for cloture on President Bush’s nomination of William Myers to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals later this week, according to sources on and off Capitol Hill, wasting no time in testing the resolve of 14 Republican and Democratic senators who forced at least a temporary halt to the battle over Democratic filibusters of President Bush’s judicial picks."

http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=956http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=956http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=956

[stillcool]

6. i'm with you....

the status quo is bogus. If no one can tell the truth, they should all go home. The horse is dead, its time to get off.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Amen!

The time to let the line in our senate sands get drawn was yesterday.

We looked the gift horse smack in its mouth .... and got spit on.

By our own side.

[dajoki]

9. time was now

now was the time for the confrontation with public opinion on our side the r's would have been exposed as the power hungry, money grubbing creeps that they are. it's going to happen sooner or later and this was the perfect time.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. Yup ...... if we get a 'next time' it will be after our side

did that whole 'bi-partisan' shit. Now we're easier to paint as sniveling sore losers and obstructionists, and whatever the fuck else they wanna call us.

And it'll stick .... cuz .... yanno ... we don't honor agreements of 'faith'.

Wutta buncha strategic dimwits. We got played like a fucking fiddle.

[jayctravis]

14. They made the choice.

They can not say that democrats aren't willing to work in a bipartisan fashion. Nor can we say that the republicans won't either.

This is how we should handle stuff.

Tom Delay has suggested that if judges don't represent the will of the people they should somehow be impeached. If the judges suck, we'll get them out of there. And we'll do it by the rules.

[dajoki]

17. no way

they will be in for life.

[Lugnut]

15. Compromising irks me

Every time the Dems compromise they get smacked over the head with it.

[dajoki]

19. give an inch

and they take a mile. this will probably come back to hurt us.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. In the words of the immortal hero from Hoboken, Frankie Sinatra .......

"All or nothing at all ..... "

And right now, boys and girls ... we got exactly that .... nothing at all.

Well ..... other than egg .... all over our collective left wing faces.

Shouldda let 'em go nuke. THEN we wouldda had sumpin' ...... but now?

Nada

Na fucking Da

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

16. too bloody risky.

Yeah, it might have worked out. Joe & Jane might have woken up to what the repugs are doing with their fundy agenda. It might have turned the public against them.

OTOH, it might have backfired. The repugs would scream obstructionists & the oh-so-liberal press would have played it over & over. We could have lost the filibuster, had even more extreme fundy shit happening; social security, Iran, etc, plus be labeled obstructionists. We could have had nothing.

That said, frickin' frist could very well go nuclear again, so you may get your wish.

best

[Stinky The Clown]

24. He will go nuke

ya heard it here first.

Look .... ol Fristian got his repitilian ass handed to him with a bow on it. He lost. His base won't tolerate that. They don't wanna hear "we tried".

"We tried" is fer losers.

Scorched earth, baby. No prisoners, baby.

Kill, Kill, Kill

Win Win Win

If he loses, he ain't gettin' jack shit come 08. And that's why he threw in his lot with the efungelicals. All he **really** wanted to do was cut some schweet deals for the family pop stand (Hosp Corp of Amer). But he got tapped fer the top job when they threw Lott overboard. He got greedy. Wanted the slot in 08, he did. Rove said, c'mere muh boy ...... here's yer shining armor. Go ye forth and fight our good fight. And go forth he did, all brasso-ed an' shit. Shiny an' all. Meanwhile Fat Karl the Doughboy is laffin' hiz ass off. Cuz he made Fristian Mr. Sacrifice Man. (cue "Mr. Celophane" from Chicago)

If Frist won, he'd be GoldenBoy08. But if he loses, he's Idiot Son's human shield. And that's where he is now. And he knows it. The goat upon the sacrificial alter. The ax comin' down on him.

So ... bet yer ass he'll go nuke again.

Its all he has left.

[Michael_Bush]

27. Pick Your Battles

I don't understand why people would want to fight a last ditch battle for District Court Judges rather than Supreme Court Justices.

If I have one shot, I am sure as heck going to use it to protect the Supreme Court.

We look reasonable (I know some don't care but I bet they live in an urban area and don't get out to see the great unwashed) to middle America, we will have compromised within their short attention span, AND when we stand our ground, we can saw this is the Supreme Battle for the Supreme Court which sounds much better than if you used District Court.

Great generals win by knowing which battles to win and do by defeating generals who don't know when to walk away.

Even if it was a bluff, we protected the Supremes and I am STILL happy with the deal.

I am sure if any of us were there we would have gotten a better deal but at least they didn't blow it completely.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. Its not about judges .... its about timing

Take a stand - a strong one in which we had the support of the citizens.

A stand we'd likely lose.

Which would be a good thing. And as you say, why worry about District Court judges?

We get to expose for all the world to see their totalitarian desires. Their absolutely scorched earth ruthless tactics. We'd have enjoyed public support that not even the propoaganda arm of the government (the 'media') could stifle.

Then we could have had every last fucking Dem ..... walk!

Leave the loonies running the loonie bin.

We'd have won.

This way ...... we got nuttin'

[Michael_Bush]

34. NEVER walk out

Or at least walk out but don't go to far. The Russians learned that one the hard way, that is how we went to war in Korea, they stormed out of the UN and we were able to pass a resolution calling for a police action.

Anyway, back to the present.

I think everyone here has heard about something and was SURE the American public was about to rise up in indignant anger but somehow they keep managing to hit the snooze button.

Most Americans don't even know the difference between state courts and federal courts. They DO know what the Supreme Court is and have some vague understanding of how it works. THAT is the place to make the stand.

I did not mean to say District Court judges are unimportant, I ONLY meant that if I have to choose which gets wackos, I would much rather them in a lower court than in the Supreme Court.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

37. I too would rather have the nuts

(& where do they find these people? Like owens & brown? those gals are beyond the pale) in the District Court. At least they can be overturned by SCOTUS. SCOTUS is god unto itself. At least for a few years.

As you said, pick your battles. It's what I did with my kids. When dumbya pulls up an uber conservative for the Supremes the public can hit the wake-up button, come to & see what the Dems are fighting for. If more people were aware of brown, owens, et al, positions, Joe & Jane would understand, But they aren't & they don't.

Husbs is right; frickin' frist is toast w/dobson & the base. They're screaming for his head & he's on hands & knees. He'll have to do something. One good thing, I think he's killed his chance to run for Pres in '08.

best

[moondust]

23. I was curious.

I still have questions about the "up or down vote" business and was sort of looking forward to finding out:

The Constitution says "with the Advice and Consent of the Senate..." But where is the "advice" part of "guaranteed up or down vote on the Senate floor"? That is only consent.

Under the "guaranteed up or down vote" scenario is there any good reason for the nomination process to make a stop at the Judiciary Committee before going to the Senate floor? Doesn't "guaranteed up or down vote" eliminate the screening/advice process altogether?

:shrug:

[Stinky The Clown]

25. There ya go again ..... thinkin'

Don't you know that's unAmuruhkin? Wutsamatter witchew?

Thinkin' .... how dare you?

Of course ..... you're right.

And perceptive. But this is RollerDome05. WWF Meets the Constitution. ConstitutionWars. NASCAR on the Potomac.

No one thinks any more. Thinking is so 60s. We're past that now.

Today its all team jerseys and team colors and team handshakes and team logos and team coporate sponsorships.

Win at all costs.

Us against them

No room for reason.

[Sparkly]

26. There's no "guaranteed up-or-down vote," of course.

The Republicans are wailing and whining over how these rightwing extremists "deserve an up or down vote," and how unprecedented this all is.

It isn't. Clinton nominated far, far more centrist judges and they didn't even GET to the point of filibuster -- that is, they didn't even get CLOSE to an up-or-down vote!! They didn't get to the floor for debate. Nor did Republicans have to go on record and state their objections -- they just did secret "blue-slips" and that was enough. So all this whining about "deserving up or down votes" is Total Hypocritical Bullshit.

Their party created the number of vacancies we had when BushCo took office, which they now claim is a crisis.

As for "advice," that means the Executive is supposed to actually consult with the Legislature, like Clinton did and Chimpy won't. If Mr. Uniter would send less horrible people -- still horrible, but just less horrible is all the Democrats are asking -- this wouldn't be happening.

Lately I'm thinking we're seeing a circumstance some founding father (or forgotten founding mother) forsaw, as in, "Yeah but what if....? Nah... That'd never happen..."

[wiggs]

28. Depends on what the dems got for the compromise, because

...I believe like you do that the dems were in strong, defensible position if they had to shut down congress. They would have been resisting rules changes that benefitted the majority at the expense of moderation and discussion...easy to have spun against the pugs. It would not have even needed spinning....

I have hope that the dems knew they had the upper hand and got the moderates to throw one or more of the judicial candidates under the bus. If dems did this, then they chose a worthwhile power play. If the "deal" is only what we see on paper, then I would have preferred the showdown while we had strength and while we had horrendous judicial nominees to complain about.

[Stinky The Clown]

29. Adviosry: The following is pure speculation ........

I think there were several factions in that 'gang of 14'

The Honest Players who want to go down as statesmen - country above party above self: Byrd and Warner (Warner, cuz someone had to balance Byrd)

The Professional Mavericks: McCain and Lieberman. McCain because he is. Lieberman, because he wants to be known for SOMEthing .... yanno?)

The camp followers: The Maine Gurls and the Rhode Island 'Gurl' (Miss Priss Chaffeeyyy) All three going along to get along .... trying to look reasonable in the face of their constituents maybe bouncing their unprincipled asses out next 'lection season. They're all three dead meat to the Repub faithful. And could be (should be) easy pickups for us now that they went an' did this.

The Insiders, sent by their Daddies to watch the fools' folly: Graham, DeWine (No explanation needed)

The wannabes: The rest of the Dems: Nelson, Landrieu, Pryor, et al (all playin' to the home town base, party be damned, principles be damned.)

None of them checked in with the leadership. None of them (except maybe Byrd and Warner) were there on principle. It was all about them. For most, it was cowardice. For McCain it was 'git back' time. A bomb right up Bush's and Fristian's sanctified asses. His little Molotov cocktail of joy. He loves playing the boil on their asses. Lieberman loves playing Johnny's bitch ...... now that Gore won't have him. And now that we don't want him.

And we got sold down the river in a deal that won't hold.

We'd have been better off with the nuclear option.

[wiggs]

31. The McCain/Frist battle will be interesting

Both are gunning for the nomination in 2008. I would guess that, even now, there's some positioning going on for primaries, for GOP backing, for donations.

For McCain, he's been carrying GOP water for a year, looking pained and sad. Now this fillibuster opportunity comes along and he's able to further his name recognition and reputation as someone who can work both sides. He's done himself a presidential favor.

Frist sees this. Frist realizes his supporting cast is stealing the show. So he's thinking of ways he can end up a winner on the fillibuster and put down McCain at the same time. Look for Frist to torpedo McCain and the other moderates by arranging for HORRENDOUS judicial nominees or by pulling out the nuclear option on Pryor, breaking the deal. Frist will find some way to throw his weight around...he can't just stand there looking irrelevant.

Yes, this was an interesting dynamic and this soap opera will only get more interesting and complex. The votes on judicial nominees and on Bolton will be very telling, including votes cast by our dem leaders. Will dems scury back into the safety of compliance after venturing out to challenge the mean pugs...like on Ohio electoral certification...or will they stick together like a true opposition party representing the opposite of a power hungry dishonest, extreme majority?

[LeahD]

32. Will the average American, say "typical?"

All the bluster and positioning among politicians is nothing new. In the end, it comes down to back room deals, everyone covering their asses or strategizing because they have to run for re-election. One big chess game.

And we wonder why Average Joe is turned off by politicians. How many people who are trying to put food on the table, raise their kids care about the filibuster and compromise?

[Stinky The Clown]

33. It doesn't have to be that way - the nuclear option was a gift to us

and we let it pass.

Had they used it, we would have lost. And that's a damned good thing. It would paint them as unreasonable. Our side could have slowed things down and looked correct in doing so.

But even better than a slow down would have been a sort of strike. ALL Dems in congres could have simply said: "We're shut out do we're taking that as a sign of totalitariansism and leaving."

And then leave ... back to their home districts. Let the pugs do whateverthefuck they want. Our folks wouild be home talking to the poeple directly, long and loud and clear.

They want biblical? Give 'em biblical. A congressional walk-out would be an event of biblical proportions.

There would be Gravedigger Bill Frisitan, with his gaunt little ass, up there atop the steps of the capitol, looking all pious and righteous and shit.

He'd lose the public support fully. Just him and his base. That's all he'd have.

[LeahD]

38. I actually thought a showdown would have been worth it.

Paint them as the kooks they are. I was concerned about the way they spin things though.... Dems would have been branded as "do-nothing, stalling, liberals. (Amurikans want their Senators to fix Social Security, blah, blah, blah.) I thought it would be worth that risk.

[Stinky The Clown]

39. I think it would have been easier to spin it our way

Actually, to even call it spin is worng. Let the facts stand as they are. We're shut out and they're running roughshod.

Scorhed earth, totalitarian legislation.

Nobody wants that .... well ..... nobody who's not one of their really ultra hard core base.

[Toots]

35. I was hoping that either way it would stir up the Democrats to action

Why do they need Frist to act first to do what they have threatened? If it is a matter of slowing the Senate's progress why not do it now. Why wait until Frist and Co. do something to humiliate them. If they had an ounce of decency they would start their slow down immediately. Why allow an out of control Senate and House and President to go on and on without at least making an attempt to slow or stop it? Face it there is no Opposition Party..

[Stinky The Clown]

36. I think they should just leave and go on 'strike'

I'm very serious. Leave DC and go back to their home states and districts and let Congress have any damned thing it wants. All the while, our folks can be at home telling the REAL truth about what's going on ...... directly to the PEOPLE.