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How can we be real without being seen as "Weird" or "Gloomy Gus"?

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:32 AM
Original message
How can we be real without being seen as "Weird" or "Gloomy Gus"?
I am going to say something incredibly shallow.

One of my main problems with John Kerry is that he reminds me of Eyore the donkey. He seems so downbeat and depressed. Sure he can smile and be jocular on occasion, but he just seems so depressed and aloof most of the time.

Frankly, I think in sheer terms of personality and likability, IMO Joe Lieberman could be the best shot. I didn't used to think so, but he seems to "wear well" and grow on you with his wry sense of humor. I totally disagree with him, but he seems to be real.

Edwards similarly. He's a little too slick, but he's got the Republican southern relentlessly upbeat "nice young man" thing going. Strictly in terms of style, I could just as easily picture him as a Republican, which may be an advantage ultimately.

I am very disappointed in both Clark and Dean, in terms of how they have been preesented in the media. They are examples of how the media and GOP can destory anyone who doesn't fit the "pre-fab" mold of cautious, sound-bite robotic politicians. Both Dean and Clark are real people, and a little offbeat and outspoken. Personally, i find that refreshing. But it also opens them up to being caricutured as spooky, or weird or hot tempered, etc.

I dunno. Just thinking out loud. Anyone have any thoughts?



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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. That's pretty shallow
Have Clark and Dean been 'destroyed'? That's news to me.
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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nah. Gave up thinking
when I decided to go with Clark. Its much better this way.

Its funny in a way.

I used to be very analytical and critical and even, dare I say it, a tad bit cynical. Some might even think me nasty. Now I write postcards, make phonecalls, march in parades, contribute money, even buy specially embroidered denim shirts for $40 a pop so I can wear my colors proudly.

It is a little unnerving but then my team leader lets me sip some more KoolAid and it all makes sense again.

Its going to be so pleasant seeing Clark sworn in next January.

Clark! Clark! Clark! Clark! YEEEEEEHAAAHHHHH!
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. No...
The notion that you have to have someone upbeat and positive is one put out by the Republicans to diffuse criticism. Do NOT buy into that. Bush didn't steal the White House in 2000 by being upbeat in positive. The only vision he shared was one where everyone got a tax cut. Outside of that, he criticized and ridiculed Gore and Clinton and portrayed them in a very negative light.

I don't want a doom and gloom candidate, don't get me wrong. But don't believe for a minute that we can win without the American people over and over again how horribly mismanaged our country has been under Bush. A clear path for the future is needed also, but it cannot be the only message.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'm just talking about personality
I agree that the gloom charge is just a GOP strategy to defuse criticism.

I have no problem with a candidate who criticizes strongly. In fact that's what we need -- as long as that is balanced by positive answers too.

But you can say the most nasty things and still seem positive, if you have the right personality. Or you can be a hopeful visionary and seem dark and negative if that's one's personality.

I'm just referring to how their manner comes across. I said this is shallow. But it's unfortunately reality too.

My mother, for example, has really liked Dean. But she says the Iowa scream made her change her mind, because she was nervous about someone that explosive being in charge. She's intelligent. But I argued with her about it about how such snap judgements are ridiculous. She said it may be silly, but that's how it struck her on a gut level.



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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. in context to where and when and why it was
why would it be so offensive?

Gees, it must be my Italian blood that just doesn't see why any of this was inappropriate. In fact, my WASP side can't see it either. Our damn politics could use a little excitment--compare Parliment to our Senate.
Talk about a snoozer, no wonder Kerry feels right at home there.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. It didn;t offend me
Although my WASP side does have a problem with that kind of yelling -heh.

But the effects on Dean's prospects are clear. A lot of people did see only that clip and found it offensive.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I think we're in agreement on the personality part...
But I still say if Bush made the speech Dean did, he'd be praised from Augusta to San Diego (maybe not by us, but you get the idea).

If you don't think Americans aren't usually suckers for speeches like that, I've got a legendary Knute Rockne speech (and a hundred just like it) that says otherwise.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. Funny, John Kerry always reminds me of Ted Baxter
the pompous news anchor on the Mary Tyler Moore show.

The problem is, if you have to WORK at appearing genuine, you're never going to get there. It either comes naturally or it doesn't. It's not something you can work at. The fact is that John Kerry, like Al Gore, has a serious problem when it comes to projecting a public persona that ordinary people can relate to. And if he hasn't been able to fix that problem during the past twenty years, there's no way he's going to be able to fix it in time for the fall campaign.
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dreissig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. Four Years is a Long Time
Say this about Clinton: he was interesting. He kept it lively. Yes, he was a bullshit artist, but all politicians are bullshit artists, and we all know it.

Bush is as boring as his father, whom the voters dumped as soon as they got the chance. Bush the Younger would not have beaten an interesting Democrat, but he didn't have to. Al Gore was a complete stiff.

The hypothesis that voters prefer the more interesting candidate can be be seen in other elections as well. In 1948, people decided they didn't want to spend the next four years looking in the newspaper and seeing Thomas E. Dewey. Truman was interesting.

Eisenhower/Stevenson is a bit harder to call, but Stevenson went over people's heads. He would make witty remarks and brainy people would crack up. Unfortunately, half the population has an IQ under 100.

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's hard to paper over reality
in these evil and twisted times, unless you're a repub. Television has done serious damage to democracy. Face is everything, policy nothing. Ask any DK supporter.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. Pablum politics.
Bush "presents" himself well to those that like the "salt of the earth", "straight talkin'", "goober in a suit", "newkewler", look.

Kerry presents himself as a Lincolnesque "not too liberal" quasi-intellectual.

Edwards as something out of "How to Dress for Success".

In the word's of some unknown cracker, "Don't eat that Henry, it's offen the highway."
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Be John Edwards.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. Where's Kucinich?
I love his message of hope and optimism. :)
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