Wes Clark in Erie 2-22-05

[BillORightsMan]

I had the chance to attend a speech given by Wes Clark in Erie PA. Here is my recap:

Frank G. Pogue Honors Scholarship Luncheon
Tuesday, February 22, 2005, 11:45 a.m.
Courtyard by Marriott at The Ambassador
Interstate 90, Exit 24, Peach Street
Erie, Pennsylvania

Featuring
GENERAL WESLEY K. CLARK
Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander

I arrived at the Marriott about a half hour before the start of the event. The place was packed! There were many ROTC members in full dress uniform, community leaders, staff from the college in maroon blazers, Edinboro alumni (I’m sure), students, college professors, and so on. I’m so glad I wore a suit and tie: very fancy, everybody was dressed up.

The university put together a nice video collage of stills of Wes with a very nice orchestra-music bed on three big screens. (I found out they got Wes to appear from a talent agency – last year they had James Earl Jones). They were surprised they only got stills. I told them about the American Son video (see http://clark04.com/americanson/) and Ice’s site (see www.u-wes-a.com). The video identified Wes as Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, but made no mention of his candidacy. I recognized most of the photos, heavy on his time in the army, but nice photos from Meet the Press, the campaign shot, cover of “Waging Modern War”, etc.

As we sat down for the luncheon, the event began with a display of the colors by the college ROTC and the Edinboro University (bag) Pipe Band. The Phi Mu Alpha Quartet sang the National Anthem. During lunch they had the requisite invocation, welcome speeches and greetings, and award presentations. They served a very nice cold plate of a shrimp-chicken-yellow squash-zucchini kabob on a bed of two different rice pilafs. Delicious!

President Pogue then gave the Luncheon Address followed by a short introduction by Harry K. Thomas, Chair, Edinboro University Council of Trustees.

Of course, Wes Clark got a HUGE standing ovation! He began as he so often does with, “Good to be with you!” He then said, “This is not the Rustbelt – this is America!” He was glad to see so many business, education and community leaders in attendance. Then he asked (as he always does) for all the veterans to stand up and be recognized – strong applause followed!

Wes continued, saying the Iraq election was good, but how did we get here? Then he got on a bit of a tangent about Pogue’s great staff and went into his “retirement story”: how he had a staff of 100+, was chauffeured, had a couple Blackhawks, a Gulf Stream, a DC-9, lived in a Belgian Château, etc. When he retired they had a parade and speeches and then he saw his assistant leave with his replacement and suddenly everybody was gone. When he got to his own personal car (that he hadn’t driven in over four years) he got in the back seat. Gert told him, “What are you doing! YOU have to DRIVE!” Big laughs from everybody! (It’s a great story when you hear Wes tell it!)

OK, he continued that America is in a transition that began in 1989 when the Soviet Union collapsed. When we won the Cold War, we were left without a strategy and referred to a speech he heard by then President GHWB about a New World Order without the USSR. He talked about his first days in Washington. He found out that Korea might have nukes on Saturday, and by Monday that we were going to invade Haiti. “HAITI?” he said, “Why are we gonna invade Haiti?” So his first assignment was to develop a strategy for the U.S. Military. So he went around talking to various lawmakers on The Hill. This is what he found out.

GOP Strategy: Get out of Europe. Dem Strategy: What can we do with this great giant military? Aid work? Relief? Both wanted a smaller force, so began the 30% reduction in the forces. All this happened during the eight years of the biggest expansion of our economy during the Clinton years – 20 million jobs created, etc. But, by us not having a global strategy and being somewhat self-absorbed as a country, it all came home to roost on 9-11-01

But now after 9/11 it seems our strategy is pre-emption and first-strike.

Ok, then Wes Clark kinda stunned the room (imho) when he said that "No exit strategy will work in Iraq" He expects the U.S. to have 100,000+ there for at least 4-5 years at a cost of several BILLION $$$$.

But he tempered those remarks by hitting the items we all know: Military component, yes, BUT we must have a strong political system in Iraq and improve diplomatic dialog with Iran, Turkey, Syria and Saudi Arabia.

He said there was much argument about why we went in there to begin with, but that is all water under the bridge and we have to now stay there to "Get it Right."

Then he talked about Terrorism. OBL & al Zawahari are STILL out there! We're only the symbol-reform in Saudi Arabia is what OBL wants. We must stop nuclear proliferation, de-legitimize extremism and discredit the ideology (sound like what we need to do with gwb's crowd, no?)

But, all these things are NEAR_TERM problems.

We need to look down the road 15-20 yrs and come to grips with Global Interconnectedness (I made that word up - lol)

He talked for some time about the gorilla in the room aka China. They have incredibly cheap labor and they can flood the market with their goods. Most of China's 1.3 billion live rurally but 25 million travel to China's big seaport cities every year. China has to find work for these people or face a revolution. Economic Law of Scale: Wal-Mart can make a tiny bit on each item (holds finger & thumb together) but sell so much they have HUGE capital. China & India are like Wal-Mart!

Then he lined out what our strategy should be going forward.

#1 Shape the international dialog and strengthen alliances. This includes getting Europe involved. He said he was pleased gwb went there but insisted gwb has to LISTEN and create meaningful dialog-not just bully them.

#2: BUILD INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTIONS not tear them down. As we go forward, we need to have strong international law. We should FIX the U.N. His motto: MEND IT NOT END IT!

#3: Work with India. Whenever he meets people from India, they are always BAFFLED why we support Pakistan instead.


Then he explained how when you are in the army, all your "personal notes and papers" (what the army calls your stuff) get scattered all over. They finally gathered it all up for around the U.S. Europe and Panama where he was stationed. He was looking through it and found a poem he memorized when he was in 8th grade.

(This was the ONLY note he used the entire time) A poem by Carl Sandberg called "Chicago" and he read a portion of it:
“ HOG Butcher for the World,
Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat,
Player with Railroads and the Nation's Freight Handler;
Stormy, husky, brawling,
City of the Big Shoulders”


He said the poem was more about America than it was about Chicago. He finished by saying (stump speech coming on here imho) that we need a NEW VISION FOR AMERICA. One that is Courageous, Wise and Generous, that reflects our Security and Values.

Huge standing O afterwards! HUGE!

Again, Edinboro President Pogue took the dais. Wes earlier had talked about the huge staff he had and how President Pogue had one too. Pogue said that he didn't really have the staff the General did. But based on how The General described HIS retirement, Pogue said he wasn't gonna retire any time soon! (Big laughs from everybody!)

After we had the color guard come back to take away the colors everybody got in a "reception line" to get their program autographed. I got in toward the end of it. When it came to my turn to say "hi", some folks from the university asked if they could interrupt for a moment to take some photos. So I got to watch, as I was in the front of the line. Cool!

When General Clark was done with the photo-op, he saw my little pin with a white "C" and four gold stars (The “C-Company” pin – see http://clark04.com/ccompany/ ). He pointed to my pin and said, "This is one of MY GUYS! They all have these little pins!" I was beside myself! I re-introduced myself (he graciously thanked me for making the trip) and I told him ARKY SUE and ALL the BLOGGERS send greetings! Then I asked him when we could expect the CCN blog to be back on line. He said he was surprised and concerned why it wasn’t back up yet. He assured me it will be up sometime this week (So there you have it, bloggers!)

On the video of the event: The college taped it and will send a copy to Wes, so it may be on the new site (hoping). I also got a business card from one of the college staff involved with this. I explained my "relationship" with General Clark and the bloggers and Ice, so I think I can get a copy to post - with permission, of course. I also found out they were having a Q & A back at the college at 3 PM with the students and faculty, but I had to leave to fetch my kid from school. I hope this was also videotaped. I’ll work to get us a copy so we can post it somewhere.

All in all it was a fantastic event! General Clark was very at ease and the crowd really listened intently to his ideas. I hope all of you get a chance to see Wes, as I’m sure he will be very busy in the coming weeks and months. Remember, he did say he was going to continue to speak out! Stay tuned! Watch and listen!

[Donna Zen]

1. Thanks for this report B-O-R man!

I wish I could have been there, but maybe next time. We need to be a "full service" party!

[Mark E. Smith]

2. Great Info!

Thanks for taking the time to post all that. Wes Clark is our party's brightest light.

[Crunchy Frog]

3. Thank you very much for that account.

I've been eagerly waiting to hear about the event. Also welcome to DU.

[CarolNYC]

4. thanks

Thanks for the recap. The General is a gem, isn't he? Glad you could attend.

[jen4clark]

5. Thanks BillORightsMan!

Wow BORM, thank you for such detailed note taking and putting it together for us!! Hope we get to see the video someday!

:-)

[ZootSuitGringo]

6. In particular, I appreciate the General's comments on China.

It is so very true that China is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. That's why we are in Iraq, IMO, to secure China's future oil so that we can control the gorilla. As long as we control the oil, we control China's economy. As a bi-product, Iraq's oil also allows us to control Russia, which is why Bush is not so concerned about the "steps back" that Russia has been making in the realm of Democracy. (edited to add: in fact, Bush doesn't believe in Democracy anymore than Putin does).

Thank you for this report. The General makes a lot of sense, and is one of our strongest Dem. If he can go around the country and allow people to see what an honest and dynamic speaker he is, 2008 may be his for the taking.

Personally, I hope that the current Harvard University President steps down, and General Clark is asked to take on that presidency. Now that would be the perfect platform for this intellectual Rhode Scholar former professor humanitarian retired General.

[BillORightsMan]

10. Thanks Zoot!

I believe I read somewhere that some are pushing for long-term U.S. military bases in Afghanistan too. Their reason: "ensure democracy" but imho it's really to guard the multi-national corp's eyes on the natural gas pipeline methinks. I find it hard to believe ANYTHING that comes out of this admin.

I also recall reading a piece about how China is talking with Venezuela to secure oil from them, thereby pushing their presence into our hemisphere. (sorry no links - maybe google it)

Harvard, you say? Wasn't Major Winchester (m*a*s*h) from Harvard? ;-)

But that might put a crimp in plans for a run in '08. Interesting! Thanks for the reply, tho!

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

12. 'splains that blasted,..."ooh,..oohh,...aahha ahha ah ...hoo hoo"

...coming from the Chimpenators mouth against Venuzueala. ;)

But if Bush only learned to stop feeding the the "Gorillas" appetite so much,.... we wouldn't be in this predicament and Venuzuela would become our friend again... Humans evolved with successes in diplomacy, but Bushies and neocons reverted to failures of his primal instincts. ;(

[ZootSuitGringo]

14. I don't think that the Harvard position would be a crimp on an '08 run

I think it would enhance it. But what do I know? It's only a dream anyhow.

[sybil]

15. ...what do I know?

Nice dream...I don't really see how it could hurt either

[Donna Zen]

17. And he would be great for Harvard too.

Then again...his education credentials would be enhanced. Hmmmm?

[sybil]

7. "Full Service Party"

This the ONLY Democrat out there who understands the need for a "Full Service Party"?

The unqualified answer is, YES!

Thanks for posting this!

Sybil Liberty

"Don't blame me, I voted for Wesley Clark fercripessake!"

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

8. Primal Orders

"He talked for some time about the gorilla in the room aka China.
They have incredibly cheap labor and they can flood the market with
their goods. Most of China's 1.3 billion live rurally but 25 million
travel to China's big seaport cities every year. China has to find
work for these people or face a revolution. Economic Law of Scale:
Wal-Mart can make a tiny bit on each item (holds finger & thumb
together) but sell so much they have HUGE capital. China & India are
like Wal-Mart!""

That sings Truth to me'ears!!

Great Report,...."Watch, Listen", but be prepared, we may start blogging from foreign shorelines of China ONline(COL),... even IOL,

Likely emailing from Yihoo,...tu!!

China and India are the Walmart's of the Global marketplace.
Bush has outsourced our livelihoods our workforce and poisoned our sustenance of our future livelihood. In the absence of diplomacy, Bush only supports lax trade regulations in favor of abusive labor ethics.

The Great Chimpanators' (POTUS) policies has fleeced America of our strength, drained our resources; and adversely compromised our future security for a generation. No surprise, Bush feeds the economic hunger of the these Gargantuan Economic Apes, ...through the same primal instinct of Greed!

[sybil]

13. Aye matey!

...greed it be and nothin' 'tween 'im 'an us!

D.C. Flint 'ere

[trillian]

9. Great report!

Like EF Hutton.........

When Wes Clark speaks, people listen.

I learn so much from him.

Thanks for sharing BORM

:toast:

[ArkySue]

11. Excellent Report!!

Thank you so much BillORightsMan! Wonderful recounting of the event. And thanks for telling him I said "Hi." LOL!!! :D
:yourock:

[ArkySue]

20. Thanks!

:kick:

[tishaLA]

16. Thanks for this

I'm interested in hearing more of what he said about India/Pakistan, if you can recall. Does he agree with the position that we support Pakistan OVER India? Or was that just an India's belief? Did he say anything about the implications of not supporting SOME government--preferably not Musharaff's, but a more democratic one--in Pakistan and what that would mean in terms of international terrorism?

Did he address domestic issues at all? Or was it exclusively international issues??

[trillian]

28. I got the impression......

.... that we should be supporting India over Pakistan.

Could be wrong.

[Donna Zen]

29. Pakistan

In the past, and iirc in his book, he identifies Pakistan as a place to watch carefully especially because of schools. Madeline Albright wouldn't talk with Musharaff in the room. He also named Egypt and Saudi Arabia as countries that support terrorism.

Ideas--vs failed ideology

[BillORightsMan]

30. India-Pakistan

Hi Tisha! My note are kinda sketchy on this, but as I recall, India is much more of a democracy than Pakistan. And they are economically growing fast (look at all the IT outsourcing to them that the U.S. does already). I think his point was that we should open a full dialogue with India. They will be an economic force to be reckoned with down the line. Wes thinks we should be more supportive of India, NOT Pakistan, althogh he didn't really address the Pakistan/Security/Terror issue in this speech.

(An aside...Putin and a number of Russian diplomats visted India a few weeks ago to work out some military hardware agreement, involving missiles, fighter planes and technology. I don't have a link at hand but a quick google should bring some of this up.)

In reference to domestic issues, he tied in our local economies to the global economy a number of times, stressing that each region needs a cohesive plan to create jobs and prosperity in the global community. But the speech was more global in nature than anything else - not really 'bread-n-butter' issues. They may have covered this during the Q & A at the university after the luncheon. I hope this helps answer your question. Thanks for the reply!

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

34. The "Rustbelt" is America!

The "Rustbelt" is America! ...and the symbol and basis of our global strength,...but it's Bu$hCo policies in the global economy that literally deteriorated domestic American industries.

Clark's recitation of Sandberg's Poem ties into this message.

[tishaLA]

50. Thanks for answering BillO!

You clarified a lot.

I agree that we have to be a better friend to India, but I think what we really need is a different government in Pakistan. george's support of that oppressive dictator Musharaff is crazy, but I'm thinking the answer is simply a better leader in the country.

I'm sure Wes is already five steps ahead of me, though, and he just didn't go into as much detail as I'm asking for.

[ClarkUSA]

18. General Clark appeals to full-spectrum Americans

As this detailed account clearly shows. We need to relate to everyman/everywoman and Wes Clark clearly does.

Thanks for the fine report.

[ICantBelieve]

19. Happy to be one of "His Guys"

[cg]

21. Outstanding report

About an outstanding person!

[Ice4Clark]

22. Thank you so much for your excellent recap!

I'm sure you had the time of your life watching Wes. Let me know if you secure a video and I'll host it.

thanks again............Ice

[cheeto]

23. Terrific reporting

Thanks for a the great detailed report. It's always good to see an intelligent man like Gen. Clark enlighten the masses. :yourock:

(First time poster) Yeah me!

[jen4clark]

61. Hi Cheeto!

I'm new too and I remember after my first post someone jumped in and welcomed me to DU - so I'm jumpin in to welcome YOU!! Happy you're here!!

:hi:

[Dinger]

24. Wow, Excellent Job BillORightsMan!!!

I love Wes! You are very articulate, and reading your report, I felt like I was actually there. I have been lucky enough to meet Weds & Gert on two occasions (got 2 autogrqphs! - his books). He is what this country needs. I supported John Kerry, and I continued to support him throughout the Ohio debacle, but now my guy is Wes. With him, hope WILL be on the way!

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

25. BORM,....How many attended?

At Johns Hopkins in September, Clark attracted over 500 up to standing room only for their special lecture series. Plus it was not a fundraiser. Its auditorium maxes out over 500 capacity.

Ice's website showed C-Span's coverage, so relatively,..what's your guesstimate of the number of attendees(?)

[BillORightsMan]

31. Attendance Figures

Well, let's see, I was at Table #24 and there had to be maybe 40 or so tables with eight seats per table, PLUS an overflow room with a large video screen and the head table had about two dozen. So, I'd say at least 300 but that's on the low side. Coulda been upwards of 500, but don't quote me on that.

[Clark2008]

26. *sigh* I love this man!

I wish I could have been there with you!
I miss Wes.
I miss the blog.
I miss campaigning for Wes WITH the blog.
:)
Thanks for the post, Ric... erm.. Bill O' Rights man! :hi:
This is Lar..erm... Clark2008!

[Sparkly]

27. What a wonderful report!!

Thanks for going, writing, and posting!!! :yourock:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. I'm wary of Generals as political leaders...

[Clark2008]

33. "I'm wary of people who think all generals are the same."

eom

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

36. I agree. And I don't.

It's a civilian/military thing. One should choose the path. Many Generals are beyond reproach, but that's not the point. The joining of the weapons of war with the weapons of statesmanship is too fine a line...one I'd prefer not to dance on.

[Clark2008]

42. Which makes me realize you haven't listened to Clark very much

He not only know what the marriage of weapons of war with weapons of statesmenship means to the Military Industrial Complex, he knows how to stop it from occurring - and has stated as such.
But, you're entitled to your opinion on vague "generals" and "politicians," I suppose.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. You're not listening(reading).

It has nothing to do with Clark in particular. Just Generals in general. I'm sure he's a wonderful human being with great ideas.

[ICantBelieve]

73. So you're admitting that you're closed minded toward Generals?

Any other occupations you feel exclude one from being President?

[Auntie Bush]

81. If you're only talking about Generals in general...and weren't referring

to Clark...Why did you post on this Clark thread? Sounds suspicious to me. :shrug:

[Sparkly]

52. Every president has those at their disposal

"The weapons of war with the weapons of statesmanship." I'd like one who knows how to exercise tact, thought, discretion, caution, and responsibility with them. And nobody knows the horrors of war like one who's been there, and been responsible. General Clark is exactly the kind of leader who will work for lasting peace.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

38. ...as if Rummy, Bush and the neocons could?

...that includes some in the Dem establishment, as well, arrhh,...truth be told,....heres en'abroad!

------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well,..that's a very profound statement!...Thank you very much ma'am!" -WKC imitation of Limbaugh answering softball questions from his "callers".
(Shriver Hall, JHU 9/04 - aired on C-Span)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

39. Could what?

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

41. LEAD

...Neocons pretend to be "generals" with our armed forces,...used as toy soldiers supported by the masses in neverland for the glorious hereafter.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

43. I agree.

What does that have to do with my wariness of Generals as Presidents?

Let me venture out on a limb: Generals running the show have a poor record throughout history. As do civilians, but great leaders(for the people) generally didn't have shiny metal on their lapels.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

47. I don't intend to support a General, but a "Leader."...

...and that "man's" name is Clark.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

48. The "military mindset" doesn't bother you?

Make no mistake...the armed forces employ a form of brainwashing.

Hey, hey. Ho, ho.
My liberal ideas
have got to go!
Hey, hey. Ho, ho.

-------------------------

These are your brothers...

-------------------------

I will shit down your neck, Private!

------------------------

Semper fi.

I'm not saying that it's necessarily bad...

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

53. It's the NEOCON with the "military mindset" ....

and les' you hadn't noticed, ...

we're fight'en the Neoconic Wars,. ..so, NO.

But, the "military mindset" on its own, IS the PAST,... which only the neocons have successfully applied, playing "generals" who've lead America to it's failures abroad.

America's strength is not solely honoring her past,...but learning from it, as well. It's not just the military component,..."MODERN" wars are engaged by leaders must also apply detante and diplomacy, as Clark understands and stated numerous times,.. it's not just the military component,...

The neocons don't learn, they react with the "military mindset" of Custer.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

55. It's ANYONE with the "military mindset."

Useful in a pinch...but better to employ the carrot than the stick.

Does a retired General still have "feelings" for the Corp? Something I'd rather not worry about.

[ArkySue]

57. well...

Apparently you are one who is uninformed/misinformed about General Clark. You should open your mind and ears and listen. JMHO.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

60. Last time.

Nothing to do with Clark. Just his occupation and it's relationship with history.

So many other fish in the sea.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

89. Thanks for the kind words.

:toast:

[ICantBelieve]

92. Truth hurts...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

96. Not really.

I maintain my position:

I'm wary of soldiers being leaders.

[ICantBelieve]

97. You can be wary...

But you're a bigot if you don't look into the specific case as you clearly have not with General Clark.

How do you call yourself a liberal when you make blanket statements? What is your defense for that?

Oh, and by the way, you should probably note that just about every president has been in the military. Your criteria lets out just about everyone. No Truman, no Kennedy, no Carter...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

100. Specifics, then.

What public policy has Clark ever implemented that I may judge him by?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

103. Where's that graveyard?

[Sparkly]

106. A few

Bringing diverse nations together, ending/preventing genocide, supporting affirmative action, promoting minorities and women with equal opportunity.

[Clark2008]

113. Stop yer whistlin', I'm back:

The following year, Major Clark worked as a White House Fellow, serving as Special Assistant to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget.
His stellar work led James T. Lynn in the Office of Management and Budget to state, "Major Clark is the most able White House Fellow I have known during my seven years in Washington. He brought to his work a brilliant mind and rare common sense. He has initiative, style, imagination, moral courage, and integrity each in extraordinary degree. He has a rare sensitivity to others and a remarkable ability to motivate and lead them. He is totally dedicated to public service as a military officer."

http://clark04.com/records/

In 1995, General Clark traveled to the Balkans as the military negotiator with Ambassador Richard Holbrooke in a US effort to end the war in Bosnia, the bloodiest war in Europe since World War II. Shortly after arriving, General Clark was traveling in a convoy on a treacherous mountain road, when an armored personnel carrier went over the edge with three US negotiators inside. General Clark ran to the site, worked his way down the mountainside to the vehicle, which had burst into flames. He called for a fire extinguisher, and pried open the hatch of the vehicle - too late to save his friends. Clark blamed Milosevic. It was a tragic beginning of the American effort to bring peace to the Balkans.

A few months later, General Clark played a vital role in ending the war at the Dayton peace talks. Historian David Halberstam wrote that some observers considered General Clark one of the "quiet heroes" at Dayton - because he worked out a peace plan that would be militarily enforceable, even though he knew it put him at risk in the Pentagon, where almost no one was behind him.
http://clark04.com/about/

The retired general has been devoting much of his time to running a company making a new kind of electric motor that does not require gears or a transmission, but uses computer algorithms to maximize torque and efficiency. The company, WaveCrest Laboratories of Dulles, Va., hopes to put these motors into hybrid gas-electric cars or even hydrogen-powered fuel-cell cars one day. But for now, WaveCrest is focused on bikes. By adding one of its "adaptive motors" to a conventional bicycle
frame, WaveCrest claims that its two-wheeler can go Lance Armstrong speed - 30 miles an hour - with hardly any pedaling at all. With General Clark in command, WaveCrest is looking to the military market first.
http://www.greenspeed.us/wesley_clark.htm

Two influential former congressional leaders have been named to lead a new US group to study the UN's effectiveness and reform efforts.
Newt Gingrich, the Republican former speaker of the House of Representatives, and George Mitchell, former Democrat Senate leader, will lead the task force on United Nations reform created by the US Institute of Peace, a government organisation dedicated to studying international conflict.
The task force will also include a number of business executives, retired diplomats and former military leaders, including General Wesley Clark, the former NATO commander who ran for the Democratic Party nomination for president in 2004.
The task force is mandated to monitor "the extent to which the United Nations is fulfilling the goals of its charter and offer recommendations for US action" to the US Congress, according to a USIP statement.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200502/s1300350.htm

Oh, and there's that public policy thing called rebuilding the U.S. Army after Vietnam - methinks he had a hand in that one, too. :eyes:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

119. Wasn't he under civilian command?

Were those his policies or those of the administration he worked under? Rogue commander or just one of many who implemented policy?

How 'bout we run him for some public office and see how he does?

Sorry for the whistling.


Ed: sp

[sybil]

129. Didn't read post #113 apparently.

Not surprised. Why ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer?

A.D.D.? Thassokay...go on back to yer whistling...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

133. ADD.

Adoration Deficit Disorder.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

131. Seems anarchy is you call, since politicians have par'd no better,...

but based on your reasonings or lack thereof,...your positions of"why",...hasn't been properly articulated. As a humble pirates, I tends ta reads the fine print....

[knight_of_the_star]

138. I think they should be leaders

Look where we are with a bunch of chickenhawks. Only a man who has fired a weapon in anger and been fired upon can truly understand the hell that is war. Considering that the president of the United States has the power to unleash said war upon the world, I feel that the office should be occupied by someone who has served in battle.

[Clarkie1]

157. Any yet, you give no coherent or logical reason for your prejudice.

But then again, that's the definition of prejudice.

[ArkySue]

85. There are none so blind...

as those who will not see. This man is an American treasure. He embodies the best of America. You need to work past your prejudice. What is wrong with wanting to serve, protect and defend America and what it is supposed to stand for??

"You will determine whether rage or reason guides the United States in the struggle to come. You will choose whether we are known for revenge or compassion. You will choose whether we, too, will kill in the name of God, or whether in His name, we can find a higher civilization and a better means of settling our differences." - Wes Clark (Seton Hall Graduation Speech, May 13, 2002)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

91. What is wrong

with wanting to serve, protect and defend America and what it is supposed to stand for??

Nothing.

I'm sorry if I'm not moved by the pretty words. PM me when he implements a policy that's benefitted his constituents.

[ICantBelieve]

94. that would be those 3/4 of a million Albanians he saved...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

99. All by his lonesome?

When did the Albanians elect Clark?

Got a link?

[trillian]

102. He lost his job over it

He stood on principle against ethnic cleansing and against the wishes of his own government. If you are not aware of this, you are woefully uninformed.

How may people do you know who would do that?


If someone like that isn't good enough or you then I don't know who would be.......a career politiciam.......an attorney.......who?

Someone once said, "there are two things you need in a President, one is intelligence, the other is integrity. If you can only get one, it's best to have integrity. Wes Clark has both"

I want someone as President who will put his/her country before Party. Frankly Wes Clark is the ONLY one who will do that. Not being a career politician, he owes nothing to to anybody......no favors to pay back....no lobbyists to take care of.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

105. No one is saying he's not good enough.

I'm saying that I'd look elsewhere first.

One could easily make the case that a teacher in the inner city is just as, if not more, principled. Downside: No fancy lettuce on their clothes.

[trillian]

107. Principled...yes. But not qualified!!!

Who would YOU like to see as President?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

114. What are the qualifications?

35.
Citizen.

My vote? Ms. Michaud. (7th grade English)

[trillian]

117. What a cop out.

I'm disappointed in you.

Fess up......who is your candidate for Prez?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

128. Whichever

lost cause washes up on the beach of the 2008 election. Who's declared themselves? Maybe it's not a cop-out at all. :shrug:

[trillian]

130. So basically you stand for nothing!

Such a shame

:nuke:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

140. You asked who I support for Prez.

I ask who's running.
You say I stand for nothing.

You see my problem here? This thread is chock-full of such illogic rejoinders.


More:

I say I'm wary of soldiers as political leaders.
You say "But Clark is great!"

I say I'd like to see a reviewable history of the person I vote for Prez.
You say "But Clark is great!"

I say the military uses brainwashing techniques on it's enlistees.
You say "But Clark is great!"

I say I'm a little leery of making someone's first elected office President.
You say "But Clark is great!"

ad nauseum

[trillian]

148. And I ask you who you support.....

and you say your 7th grade teacher. How trite!

And by the way, none of our answers were "Clark is great" Most posts were chocked full of facts and information.

But you just keep repeating "I can't support a General"


Talk about ad nauseum

Look in the mirror

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

153. Actually,

"Who would YOU like to see as President?" was your question. My 7th grade teacher was a metaphor for the kind of person I'd like to see in that office.

But you just keep repeating "I can't support a General"

Urm, no. I can't support a General who has never held elective office. See? Simple. All things being equal, I'd vote for a schoolteacher before a General if both had no paper trail.

[Texas_Kat]

160. So which office was George Washington elected to

prior to his becoming president?

[CarolNYC]

162. OK,

you have a problem with voting for a General. I can understand that. It took me a while to get past the General thing too...but it can be done. Me, originally a Kucinich supporter, did it. But you may not want to. That's cool too.

Back to the topic of the thread, though, did you like what Gen Clark had to say at Erie?

Thanks. Carol

[trillian]

152. Well it sounds like you have exactly the people in power that you like

Since that is your criteria for the leadership of our country.

Not one of them served in the military!

So you should be real happy!

G'night!

:dunce:

[knight_of_the_star]

144. They would if they could

They love him for what he did.

[dogman]

110. Right. Why should someone who put their life on the line have a say?

There's a thought process that connects with reality. George Washington should have been set aside since he didn't represent any thing honorable, just being a military leader.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

121. Arh,,...Sarcasm. ....I'll bark ta' that ! ;)

Cheers me'matey! :beer:

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

62. It's ANYONE with the "military mindset,...SOLELY",....then I's agree .

But the world isn't a rabbit whole, nor Disneys version of the Serengeti...

America's security and interests in the world will only survive by integrating 3 elements: military, detante and diplomacy. Carrots and sticks,....but me'likes beefsticks personally.

[Leilani]

66. I'm wary of politicians in general.

The longer they're politicians, the better they lie & pander...at least most of them.

I truly believe that those who have experienced war are the least likely to advocate it, & they see aggression as a last resort.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

71. It's a fair point.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

126. It's ANYONE with the "military mindset,...SOLELY"

as a pirate, me'likes strategically position me'self ...;)

[ICantBelieve]

74. AHHHHHH

You have no fing clue what you are talking about. What fing military mindset? Have you MET General Clark, like BillofRightsMan has? Do you have any idea what his "mindset" is?

Your bigotry is showing through clearly.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

49. If the leader by a "man",...his name is Wes Clark.

tho, truth be told I finds Boxer, ...particularly appealing to me'heart as well,..aiye

[Sparkly]

54. Terrible leaders like the one we have now didn't, either.

I think you're jumping to conclusions with little to base it on.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

58. Perhaps you're right.

Military leaders have proven to be a great boon for mankind.


I stand corrected.

[Sparkly]

Perhaps I am.

The point is that you're drawing conclusions about a group of people based on very little evidence. In fact, there's far more evidence that people with civilian careers make terrible leaders, if you really want to jump to conclusions.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

69. Let's see:

First Lieutenant- George W. Bush
Lieutenant - George H.W. Bush
Captain- Ronald Reagan
Commander - Nixon
Corporal- Hitler


:evilgrin:

[Donna Zen]

78. Well Nixon did serve.

GHWB pulled a bunnypants and lived to tell. W as we all know, just stayed drunk and never ever served anything but his own selfish greed. Cheney never served, Wolfowitz never served, Feith never served. Perle never served.

Carter, Naval Academy, served, Kennedy served, and General Eisenhower warned you to watch out for the MIC.

[Sparkly]

80. Oh, so it's not even about career military? Just anybody who served?

So among the unfit are John Kerry, Charlie Rangel, and George McGovern. I'm sorry, but that is just a HUGE generalization.

Edited to say: your position seems to have evolved from one against "generals as presidents," to being against people with "shiny medals," and now it's against anyone who was in the service at all. :shrug:

[ICantBelieve]

83. More...

http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-u-s-presidents-by-military-rank

Gee, it's ALL of them!!!! No Carter, no Johnson, no Kennedy, no Truman...

[sybil]

59. Venture out on a limb?

What's the alternative then?

...the status-quo, biz as usual, an empirical-one-party state, war without end and your mind snapped shut? Maybe you should read Wes Clark's policy papers, domestic and otherwise...you seem to be clueless about Wesley Clark.


"Don't blame me, I voted for Wes Clark!"

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

75. Gack!

The alternative is one who only kills metaphorically.

[sybil]

90. Is that your best shot?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

93. Maybe.

[cg]

65. Wes Clark is a leader first

It's his individual qualities and perspectives, not his role as a general, that weigh more heavily with me.

Have you read his 100 Year Vision?

[Donna Zen]

56. A General as a political leader.

BTW, love the picture.

I'm conditioned to not trust the military. Really. I've been shot by my government and have lived in America under martial law, so for me, getting to know Wes Clark was a huge stretch.

First let me say that with all I've learned and know about Clark, he is the one person I've ever wanted, really wanted to be president. I like him as a person, and respect him as a leader.

But beyond that, America is crisis partly because we have become a one party state, and if the Democrats do not change their image--not their policies and ideas--they will not attract enough votes in a national election to outwit the republican machine. We have been branded as weak, and the currently Democrats while slowly rising to their feet, have long been part of the problem. We must change our image.

In addition, I believe that by 2008, there will be no money to do anything for anybody. Proposing any populous programs means explaining where that money's coming from; no money means a constricted platform of ideas. Of course the money is dumped under every slimy pork barrel especially at the Pentagon. None of the republicans want to find that money, it's just business as usual. None of the Democrats dare to hunt down the Pentagon booty--except one: Clark. He said he would, and as Michael Moore responded when asked why Clark didn't fare better in the primaries: "He never learned to lie."

I've met and have been friends with some very smart people, but Wes Clark is brilliant. He sees very clearly where this is all headed, what's happening with the Chinese economy, where the Patriot Act is taking us, and why we should have never invaded Iraq. I trust him and I like him.

If ever two things needed to come together, a leader with military and foreign policy credentials who is a liberal and the Democratic party, Wes is the one. I wouldn't support just any general, I support this one. The people I fear have never done a day of public service that didn't fit their agenda. I distrust politicians more than you could ever imagine. I trust Clark, and I know exactly why.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

111. You should probably vote for him,

considering the intensity of your feelings.

[Bostonian]

188. Martial law?

When was that?

Also when and where where you shot?

[Texas_Kat]

35. Wes Clark connects

....to people from all walks of life.

Wes's speaking style respects his listeners. Rather than speak just in soundbytes, Wes has a real talent for 'connecting the dots' and explaining complex issues.

What a refreshing difference between HIS style of speaking and those who say what they think we want to hear.

Truth to power and everyone else!

[politicasista]

37. Oh, so that's a slam at Kerry?

:mad:

[Clark2008]

40. Huh? I didn't read any slam of anyone, specifically.

Unless YOU think Kerry just said what he thought people wanted to hear.
:shrug:

I would never have gotten that out of that post. Sorry.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

46. More like fer'those who be clueless,...

at least as I reads it,..but asides from me'bad eye,...both me'ears and me cerebral hemispheres appears ta'be network'in finely,

Seems that you just slammed Kerry yer'self!

Intres'ting,...that he pops in you minds like that tho...

[politicasista]

142. I am NOT clueless

I am a good observer of things.

[sybil]

63. Well there's a giant leap!

Who mentioned kerry? kerry who?

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

95. Arrhh,....March Madness be start'in early,.... me'figures. n/t

[CarolNYC]

163. that's an interesting leap..

Kerry didn't come to my mind until you mentioned him...

[Crunchy Frog]

167. Sound alot like a small group of vocal Deanies

who believe that anything nice that anyone says about anyone other than Dean is implicitly a slam against Dean.

Yeah, somebody said that Clark connects well with people, so it obviously must be an attack on Kerry.

[JNelson6563]

171. Yeah, Deanies always see Kerry as a god

Ugh.

For one who claims to relish peace among the camps your post is counter-intuitive to those claims. Just sayin'.

As a Deanie who has taken serious issue with the Clarkie-crush threads (which I am glad to note an absence of lately) I don't have a problem with another getting praise. In fact, when I saw this thread at first I was glad for the Clarkies to have something to post about. Too bad it turned into lots of flames, sprinkled with undeserved, irrelevent digs. Too damn bad.

Julie

[Crunchy Frog]

174. Actually, I said in my post that I was referring to a

very small but vocal group. Not Deanies as a whole. Also I was responding to this particular poster who often responds to any criticism of Kerry with the statement that the critic must either be a Deanie or a Clarkie. Simply pointing out the engaging in the same type of behavior of which one accuses others.

I was by no means attempting to characterize all, or even the vast majority of Deanies, and I'm sorry that you chose to interpret my post in that fashion.

I would ask you to look at the largest disruption that has occured on this thread and ask who began it and which candidate they supported.

Oh, and I too am very relieved that a small number of Dean supporters have stopped posting Clark crush threads.:evilgrin:

[JNelson6563]

179. I won't waste the time on reading flames

I gotta give ya a "Yeah, no shit! What wazzup wit dat??" on this:

Oh, and I too am very relieved that a small number of Dean supporters have stopped posting Clark crush threads.

Sometimes I wish Deanies *did* coordinate like a certainmore discipline group, then I might know what was behind that crap. I'm glad to see Clarkies have chilled on the crush threads too. I guess everyone understands the concept of "saturation".

Ah well. Even if Deanies coordinated I wouldn't have time to keep up anyway so no matter.

BTW I still don't see how the post you were replying to drew a select Deanie slam. Maybe if you'd have put it under a Deanie attack it would've seemed relevent and not like a random, no-excuse-needed dig. Just sayin'.

Julie

[Crunchy Frog]

182. Sorry about not being more clear on the context,

it had to do with various other posts that I've seen from the one I responded to.

As far as the reference to Dean supporters starting Clark crush threads, I thought that we had pretty clearly established that the last group of them you were complaining about were, in fact, started by a Dean supporter.

I don't think that sort of thing requires any coordination, although I don't doubt that there are myriad ways that things like that can be coordinated.:shrug:

Again, I'm sorry that you percieved the post as a dig at Deanies in general. It was not inteded as such.

[catbert836]

45. I met him on the plane to Erie

I asked him if he was going to run again, and he *guess what?* doesn't know!
But it was cool meeting him. I should have gotten his autograph.

[Donna Zen]

51. Great bit of information:

I'm sure he doesn't know or he would have said.

[trillian]

86. OMG! I'm so jealous!!! n/t

[BillORightsMan]

164. Catbert, what a great question!

Of course that's his standard line, along with "I'm in the private sector now". At the end of an interview with Chris Matthews, Chris asked him about 2008 and Wes replied "Rule nothing out!" So most of us are going with that line right now "Rule nothing out". But we really need to fix the voting 'irregularities' first and get meaningful reform (see Hilary's Senate bill about this) starting with NO Electronic machines at all. See my post here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=328848#329033

[qanda]

64. I *love* Wesley Clark, BUT....

He was on with Wolf Blitzer and Richard Perle the other day and even Wolf was surprised at how little separation there was in the opinions of Clark and Perle. It was very disturbing. Actually, it broke my heart.

[cg]

67. Wolff wasn't listening very closely

The difference was that Perle would use violence to support rebels in Iran, while Clark would use the tools of engagement on economic and political fronts.

[qanda]

68. Well, I guess I wasn't listening too closely either

Because I did not hear one ounce of disagreement between the two of them. I guess I'll have to get the transcript to see if I'm losing it.

[sybil]

70. I saw that!

Wolf is a fool! Clark supporters are outraged at that remark because that simply isn't true!

Wes Clark and Richard Perle are 180 degrees apart. There is no accord. When Perle says "diplomacy", he means something entirely different than you think he does. The man is devious as the day is long.

Furthermore, Wolf doesn't *listen* when he interviews doncha know?

[Donna Zen]

72. Not as surprised as Clark was when Wolf said that.

Perle said "regime change." Clark said support the reformers with diplomacy. So in short: Perle says invade; Clark said it's time to talk.

Just because Clark doesn't yell at Perle doesn't mean he agrees with him.

Also, notice that Wolf (past journo for a hard right newspaper in Israel) gets the last word and says that Clark agrees with Perle. That'll be the day.

I've watched the video several times. Clark backed Perle down; and Perle whines: it doesn't have to be military change.

Perle has a hammer and everything looks like a nail.

[qanda]

77. I looked for a transcript and couldn't find one

So I only have my kneejerk reaction to go on. However, if you all say that it wasn't as bad as I thought, I am willing to give General Clark the benefit of the doubt. I think he is a very smart man and tries to weigh his words carefully, perhaps I was looking for him to be just a bit more oppositional to Perle.

[Donna Zen]

82. snip:

CLARK: Well, I think that for a long time we've needed to change our policy toward Iran. I would like to see us open up toward Iran. I think the best support we can give to those Iranians is to let the West come in with its culture, its economics, the way we approach issues, and I think that will change the regime -- just as it's going to change the regime in Lebanon, just as it changed the regimes in Eastern Europe.

That's the model that's successful. And that's what I hope will follow.

^^^^^^^^^^

Perle then mumbes that he doesn't think we need a military invasion, just covert action.

The transcript in up on the Wes Clark Supporters group here at DU.

Don't worry. the General knows Perle, he even knows Perle's favorite rock.

[trillian]

84. Transcripts

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=235x5794

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

79. WRONG! Wolf be plugging words that sing with spin....me'dears

It's interesting how Wolf "PLUGGED" that message,..aye?
Clark kinda laughed at it, as Blitzer closed the interview.

Firstly, take a listen to what CLARK said,...NOT what Wolfie sang,the howling k9 for MSM.

Perle favored covert overthrow, by elements who want to "liberate" their country...(PNAC strategy)

Clark strongly disagreed with covert or violent attempts to overthrow the government, which would backfire. He stated America's values in true democracy was needed to engage Iran, diplomacy and open culturalization.

-------------------------------------------
Wolfie also appeared to convey that Wes agreed with Perle, rather than in truth, Perle agreeing with Clark,...on common sense concern.

That we(US) needed to "call on" Putin and Russia to stop his(their) support to build Iran's nuclear capability.

-------------------------------------------
time to listen to the words in the music...

http://www.u-wes-a.com/mediaclips-post.html

[Donna Zen]

87. Is it just me:

or has anyone else noticed how friggin hypocritical it is of bush, the propaganda paying pig, to preach to Putin about a free press. Maybe bush can give putin lessons on how to threaten journalist, or hire pimps for props. This is just too much!

[sybil]

98. Oh yeah!

Today bu$h was "...going to speak with Putin about his (Putin's), 'thought processes'."

[LittleClarkie]

134. I thought Pravda was doing pretty well

No? Or is it still sorta controlled?

I still remember how they heckled us after the last election. I think they're point was "we have cleaner elections than you do, nyah" or something like that. Sadly, they may have had a point.

It's weird how some on the right still act like Russia is the Evil Empire, like they miss the thing.

[Gold Metal Flake]

88. Thank you for this great report.

Welcome to DU! :toast:

[Donna Zen]

101. Your photo gallery

Really inspires me and gives me hope.

[sybil]

109. Super shots!

...the stuff of heroes! What a line-up!

[Auntie Bush]

104. That's the best report on Clark that I've ever read. n/t

[wisteria]

108. How about Kerry/Clark 2008

Now don't get mad at me, I am entitled to my opinion. I do like Clark. I admired him for the way he supported Kerry during the election. I also think he makes a lot of sense militarily. I just think he needs more non-military experience. He could learn and grow in the roll of VP first, instead of going for the presidency directly. Just consider this ticket-two military veterans, both democrats. How could they say were weak on defense?

[sybil]

112. Kerry who?

[trillian]

115. Kerry should stick to being a Senator! No second chance. IMHO

He lost to the worst President in my life time!!!!

Nuff said!

[politicasista]

135. You guys are evil

:grr:

[Crunchy Frog]

169. Oh, come on.

Are you really suggesting that expressing an opinion that differs from your own is evil? I think that's going just a little bit far. It's more reminiscent of the sentiments of those on the other side isn't it?

[Clark2008]

116. How 'bout Clark/Kerry, then?

Clark doesn't need to "learn and grow" in the role, he was the friggin' GOVERNOR (in a sense) of NATO!
Kerry, however, needs to learn how to grow in expressing himself, it seems. Or rather, regress to his post-Vietnam days.

[dogman]

118. That was my choice. I think Kerry would make a great President

of the Senate.

[wisteria]

122. There is no presdident of the senate!

However, I did get your point and I don't agree. I suppose all I can say is let the best person win.

[dogman]

123. Google the words.

vice president - Under the Constitution, the Vice President serves as President of the Senate. He may vote in the Senate in the case of a tie, but is not required to. The President Pro Tempore (and others designated by him) usually perform these duties during the Vice President's frequent absences from the Senate.

[wisteria]

125. Oh! you got me. I stand corrected.

[politicasista]

136. Very funny

:grr:

[wisteria]

124. Express himself?

John Kerry seems to be articulate to me. I have no problem understanding him. As for his the anti-war days, that was long ago. People grow and change and find other ways to press their point of views and change policies.

[trillian]

127. He was unable to articulate his positions during the campaign

Too much waffling...."I voted for the 87bil before I voted against it."

Cost him the election IMO

When he was young he stood on principle.

[politicasista]

139. The election was stolen period.

I don't care what you guys think.

[sybil]

147. We'll never know will we?

That early concession made an investigation impossible.

[sybil]

141. In the words of the man himself...

"balderdash"!

He is inarticulate, he is inconsistent, he is incompetent and he is an invertebrate to boot.

The majority of voters didn't vote for him because they didn't have a clue what he stood for...I didn't have a clue what he stood for. I bet my hat, my shoes, my a** you don't either.

His hubris equals that of W's as evidenced in the fact that he had the nerve to publicly discuss the possibility of another run in '08 following that premature concession...and what's with him still holding millions in campaign contributions that should have gone to support Democrat congressional candidates all over the country?What's with that?

Last but not least, he lost the most costly presidential campaign ever, to the WORST sitting president in the history of this country.

Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh and I don't like the bashing that goes on at D.U. but this is just an absurd suggestion.

Kerry? Never again!

[ZootSuitGringo]

143. Kerry already had the chance to pick Clark as his VP

in 2004. Instead, after saying he would choose someone with Foreign relations/national security experience, he picked Edwards. Yes siree, he did. He allowed the Corporate media to manipulate him into picking Edwards. They said, Kerry was pessimistic, and Edwards was the optimist. The problem was that the election was not about that, it was about national security. How can we trust Kerry to make the right decisions when he couldn't even pick the right running mate? And let's not get started with the McCain for VP rumors that Kerry was so fond of.

Why should he get a chance to do it over again?

[politicasista]

146. No wonder the GOP laughs at us

I love it when we trash our former nominees while the Repukes give theirs second chances. Too bad, cause Kerry would have made a good president, now we want to nominate someone who is smooth, straight to the point and so on. Yes, no more Kerry. Ha, ha, ha. :mad: :cry:

[ZootSuitGringo]

149. I did not trash John Kerry.

unless the truth is considered garbage. In that case, there's little I can give you as a remedy.

The facts of my comments were as follows:
Kerry had a chance to pick Clark and didn't.

So why should anyone take seriously someone that would suggest a Kerry/Clark ticket NOW?

The world didn't change since July of last year to that extent, except for now John Kerry has lost the election and he now knows that National Security was the key issue. Funny thing is that I knew that in January of 2004.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

120. Ask Bob DOLE! Bob Dole knows: Clark/Kerry 2008.

Aiye,

...it may be that in '04, Big Bob Dole said that Clark was just a Lieutanant relative to Kerry, as a Gen'ral,....

...but in '08, I'd say Big Bob Dole will get a rise en'say they both be able Gen'rals in tha "politics" of words!

...but as a pirate standin on me'own good leg,...I be placing me'bets on Clark 2008,... en' be certain uv a good return,...

for America's "values"!

En' I'd be happy to sing these words tooo,..

"Strong at home,...and respected throughout the world"

It'll ring true me heart it would,..aiye.

[Donna Zen]

132. Kerry/Clark 2004

If that had been the ticket, we might not even be having this discussion. Seriously, I really like Clark as a person, and have trouble even thinking about him running considering the state of the media and wacky country we live in. I mean, look at some of the ridiculous things that are posted on DU?

Nevertheless, if I have to think about 2008, I'm a Clark supporter. Actually, for the very reasons you have cited. Out of 1 1/2 million people in the military, about 8 of them reach 4 Stars. Those people make it there because they have plenty to offer, and it's not about the guns. Clark has run huge commands which include every possible domestic area. He has worked in the WH, first as a WH fellow in the OMB where he wrote a federal budget. He worked there again during the Clinton years as J5, policy and planning. His experience is far wider with greater depth than anyone I've known to run for the office. Oxford master's degrees in economics mean something, and Clark earned his. In the above post, Clark talked a great deal about the world economic future, and how we will find our way in it. He gets it. If anything, Clark is the closest of all of the names being mentioned to a New Deal Democrat.

The Democrats are considered very weak on Defense and security issues. From the Hillary, blah, blah, buzz, I think they will once again chose to ignore that. I knew Kerry had vulnerabilities which is why I supported Clark over Edwards for his VP, hoping to fill the gaps, but the insiders won out. We, and Kerry himself, paid dearly. Those vulnerabilities are now worse because of the track the last election took. Clark really didn't want to be VP although if he thought it would get rid of bush, he would have done it--IMHO.

So no, I don't want to see a Kerry/Clark ticket. I don't know if I would advise Wes Clark to go anywhere near American politics. But if he is willing to fight for his country, then I will fight for him. We are not going to get any more 4 Star Generals. After the way the left has treated a brilliant liberal one, I doubt that any would bother to call us up. Turning the party into a "full service" party is going to be difficult, so I hope they begin to seize this chance and stop playing games--because right now, we are losing.

[trillian]

137. You said it all!!!

:toast:

[ArkySue]

154. Amen Sistah!

:kick:

[politicasista]

145. I think that is a good ticket too.

:bounce:

[sybil]

150. 2004?

[ZootSuitGringo]

151. Kerry didn't think so.

kerry likes Kerry/Edwards. I don't think he should flip flop on this issue. He should stick to Edwards, the sunshine guy.

[Springg]

155. How did we get to discussing Kerry and his VP choice here?

Thanks Rich for the terrific report...I felt like I was in the room with Wes!
I've read with interest all the comments about generals and politics not mixing...but haven't 25% of all our presidents been generals? Leadership is leadership...and that is what our country needs now!!! Someone who can lead....everyone. This country has been completely fractured...and we need someone with a relatively clean political slate to bring us together.
Oh, and BTW, Newsweek reports in their book on Election 2004 that Kerry approached McCain several different times trying to get him interested in being his VP running mate....he even offered to let him be Secretary of Defense at the same time...sort of suggested they could set up a co-presidency if McCain would accept. All this going on while the dems themselves kept trashing Wes for being a closet Republican...oh that still gets my blood boiling!! :( That hurt Wes when he learned of it...even though he worked so hard to get Kerry elected..Wes felt we had plenty of wonderful talent in the democratic party and didn't need to dip into the republican pool for VP or cabinet postions.

[Crunchy Frog]

172. I think you'll find that it's very common here,

in threads about Clark, for people with various other agendas to pop in and start mindless flamewars. You can choose to see it as a perfectly good thread about a Clark event being wrecked by disruptors, or you can see it the way I do, as a good thread being kept kicked to the top and active, unwittingly, by people who think they're hurting Clark by stepping in to start flamewars.

I've become philosophical about the Democratic party myself. If it's truly intent on self destruction, ultimately there's nothing I can do to stop it. If it ceases to represent my values, I will simply cease to be affiliated with it.

Welcome to DU by the way.:hi:

[Auntie Bush]

181. Welcome aboard springg

:hi: Always glad to see another Clark supporter. :bounce:

[Clarkie1]

159. Troll? n/t

[Clarkie1]

158. Kerry's a good debator, but he's a poor leader.

Nothing against Kerry personally, but he's a better senator than Clark.

[politicasista]

170. We wouldn't know that until we give him a chance.

But we were too busy complaining about how awful and lousy and candidate Kerry was to stop and think what kind of president he would have been. :mad:

[Crunchy Frog]

173. We were not complaining about how awful a candidate

he was during the campaign, at least not on this site. We all got behind Kerry, however, based on what I observed during the campaign, my belief is that he would have been a rather weak president, with a tendency to vacillate, to have difficulty making decisions, and with no clear governing philosophy. He would have ended up merely reinforcing all the negative stereotypes about Democrats, and would most likely have been a one termer.

As far as giving Kerry a chance, we DID. He got the nomination remember? He blew it. No more chances as far as I'm concerned.

And before you start complaining, remember that it was you who chose to make this a thread about Kerry, when it started out being a report on a Wes Clark event.

[politicasista]

175. Shame, Shame, Shame

We want to Gore to run again, but not Kerry. I am just speaking the truth. I like the General.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

176. Truth be told,..."We" not be "me"

Truth be told,...Gore screamed 3 years too late for '04,

...only after the Black Caucus screamed in '00,

..en good reasons fer me ta'scream a "NoNo for '08.

[Crunchy Frog]

177. Alright, I am very, very, very ashamed.

I certainly don't want Gore to run again any more than Kerry, although, to be fair, he did win the popular vote and very clearly had Florida stolen from him, neither of which you can say for sure about Kerry, despite much speculation to the contrary.

I am not in favor of our party running failed nominees more than once. The last time that we did that was with Adlai Stevenson and we all know how that turned out. Now Ike wasn't doing catastrophic damage to the country the way the current Repubs are, so our party could afford the indulgence then. We can no longer afford it at this time.

And before you bring up Nixon, I simply don't believe that either Gore or Kerry has the Machievellian political instincts that Nixon had, so I don't feel that it is a valid comparison.

I'm just speaking the truth too. I like Kerry alot, I just don't think that he is presidential material or that he deserves a second chance to lose to the Republicans again. I greatly value his presence in the Senate, and hope that he will become a leader in standing up to W's agenda.

[politicasista]

178. He was the most presidental out of all of them.

:evilgrin:

[Crunchy Frog]

180. He probably was the most "presidental" out of all of them,

(does that mean he had the best teeth?:evilgrin: ). However, I think we differ with each other as to whether or not he is presidential material. I don't think he is, you obviously do. Difference of opinion, it's what keeps debate nice and lively.:)

[Clarkie1]

189. We did give him a chance, and he failed to inspire enough voters.

And if you say you think he won I will will tell you:

I don't want a marginal win from an candidate who lacks the ability to inspire a great many more Americans to our cause.

The Kerry candidacy failed. There will not be a do-over in 08'.

We can't afford that, and the country can't afford that.

[Crunchy Frog]

168. That would have been an ideal ticket for 2004,

but Kerry didn't have the insight or wisdom to see it. The time for that ticket has come and gone. As far as I'm concerned, Kerry had his shot at the presidency and it was a damn good shot. He failed to beat the worst president in American history, and for me, that rules him out for any future consideration at the top of a Democratic ticket.

How about Clark/Kerry for 2008?

[Clarkie1]

156. thank you for that detailed report Bill O' Rights! n/t

[baron j]

161. Cool...I'm from Erie, and went to Edinboro U.

Of course I'm in a different city when that happens..I always miss everything

[Totally Committed]

165. Fantastic Report!

Thank you so much for taking the time to take all the notes and write this up!

It's nice to know that General Clark is out there spreading the message that The Democratic Party will not cede National Security or Foreign Policy to the Regressive Wingnuts. His understanding and wisdom in these matters reminds even those in the Red States that there is a Democrat who can run under these banners and who can offer them REAL security -- when the Republicans can only give them a false sense of the same.

Should he choose to run in '08, he will surely get my $$$, my time, and my vote! He is the right man for these truly scary times.

TC

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

166. Fear the Neocon$,...who feed the terrorists...

Neocons fatten the pig fer'the $laughter for feed!
Their senses are purely salvatory,
...as they gorge their fill for a theocracy in creed,
...Right wingnuts be fueling their portion$ in greed.
...Neocons roast from tha spoils of our democracy,
...hijacked solely by their evil deeds.

[Leilani]

183. Thanks for your great report, BORM

I've never been able to see or hear Wes Clark in person, but your report was excellent, & made the appearance come alive.

I only regret that your wonderful OP had to turn into one of these endless threads, that seem to be standard operating procedure when Wes Clark is the subject.

[Crunchy Frog]

184. Well, at least that sort of thing

keeps the thread kicked and active so that more people get a chance to see it. I kind of think of the people that pop in to pick fights as doing us a favor in that way, and am coming to appreciate the time and effort they put into helping us to promote Wes.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

191. cerebral spasms...

eh, beg your pardons,... me peg leg seems to get these twitches once in awhiles...

I feels much better now, tho I admit, it be dif'cult not ta'raise me sword against those who as'sail with prejudism...aiye.

[BillORightsMan]

185. Doing Good when I can!

Thanks Leilani for your comments! I'm new here at DU and I've heard about the anti-General attitude over here at DU. I'm not sure what causes it: maybe too much exposure to Corporate Media's spin on WKC (aka mis-information), blinders or just an anti-war prejudice. But Michael Moore supported General Clark! What gives?

Maybe some of these anti-Wes people need to read his position papers to get a better background. I suggest http://clark04.com/issues/ . What really sticks out to me is his "Families First Tax Proposal". A must-read is his 100 Year Vision you can see here http://clark04.com/vision/ This beats the HECK out of the neocons! If you have quicktime, watch American Son http://clark04.com/americanson/

Thanks again!

[Crunchy Frog]

186. I actually don't think there's so much anti-Clark

attitudes on this board. For the most part, attitudes towards Clark are positive or at least neutral. Clark consistently comes out on top in polls on candidate preference for 2008. It's more, I think, that a relatively small minority has extremely negative attitudes and tends to be extremely vocal about it. Then there are posters who simply like pissing people off, or who have some sort of ulterior agenda that involves sowing divisiveness among Democrats.

I hope you won't let them scare you off and will stick around this board though. They really are a minority.:hi:

[Leilani]

190. Welcome to DU, BORM!

What gives? Some obvious flamers, & some very anti-military prejudice.

You know, Dems are politically correct about every group in the universe except the military.

However, most people are open minded & the more they learn about Wes Clark, the more they like him.

[capi888]

187. Thanks bill o rights...great report.

Thanks so much...love to hear the stories about Gen. Clark...a great man he is....