Dean reaches out to Evangelicals

[TrogL]

I heard a thing about this on the CBC news this morning as one of the lead articles on the national broadcast. They noted that Dean, as the new head of the Democratic party, is planning on reaching out to evanglicals on moral grounds. They interviewed a woman saying that Republicans did not share Christian values - that there were 300 entries in the Bible about aiding the poor and one on homosexuality (OK, there's actually five if you look at it one way (see link below) but her point is valid).

I couldn't find a link anywhere.

What's going on?

[pelagius]

1. I know Jim Wallis of Sojourners...

...has had frequent contact with the Dean people -- the "three thousand passages on social justice for the poor and five on homosexuality is one of Wallis' main talking points -- so looking at the Sojourners web site might provide a few clues as to where Dean might be headed.

www.sojo.net

[auburngrad82]

8. I'm reading his new book, God's Politics. Interesting reading

I'm going to start framing all my LTTE's and letters to my representatives and senators in terms of living up to the ideals of the Bible. The GOP has co-opted the religious right and the left hasn't given the rest of the religious community reason to support them. We need to get better at showing how the democratic ideals are more "moral" and "Christian" than the policies of the GOP, which totally ignores poverty, honesty etc.

[madfloridian]

18. Wallis was on CNN today, great interview.

He and Dean sound so much alike on this issue.

[napi21]

28. I saw him on CNN today too.

Good logical guy. I'm thinking about getting his book.

[BNW]

51. Good, the religious left needs a revival

and Wallis seems like a good leader to do it. They've got to go after black people of faith as well, MLK style.

[mattclearing]

2. Dean is about to start challenging the Republicans on morality.

If they can't live up to their rhetoric, then God knows Dean will let them have it.

I don't know that it will attract evangelicals, but it's nice to let them know that they're in bed with a bunch of hypocrites.

[FreedomAngel82]

3. I'm so excited about this!

I think he'll do very well and to know that other Christians and those who associate with the evangelicals who are democrats can help Mr. Dean as well. I love how he's using the Bible because of it being the Christian crede and everything. And yes Jesus did talk a lot about helping the meek and poor and I love how he's calling the Bush's and his people out on it. :)

[mattclearing]

5. It's so logical and easy. It begs the question:

Why haven't we been doing this for the past thirty years?

[rurallib]

6. Finally

We'll never get anywhere by being 'rep-lite'. We have always needed to challenge everything the reps claim. When challenged with proof, republicans eventually must admit they are wrong.

[demwing]

26. I doubt that it IS targeted towards Evangelicals

but probably towards all those listening to the exchange from the sidelines.

Even if the Evangelicals and the Democratic party can't find a middle ground, Dems appear more reasonable just by seeking that position.

[madfloridian]

27. Exactly. Taking their issues away.

Making their issues our issues as well. Just like they have done for years to us.

The way he said it in the press conference was perfect.

[mzmolly]

54. It will attract those that left for so called "moral" reasons.

I too am glad Dean is challenging them on this. He did so in the primaries also.

[madfloridian]

4. Dean said we will be concentrating on religious outreaching...

If you can find his interview on C-Span on Saturday...he says most Christians relate to Democratic values more than Republican.

It was quite powerful.. he is taking back the language and the values. He has been doing this a lot.

His idea is we talk about our values, make them clear, but NOT change them because we don't need to do so.

[AgadorSparticus]

7. wow. he said that? i'm so excited!! this is great!! so needed....

[Guaranteed]

9. I was saying this in another thread, but I'm not quite sure that I

agree with this approach.

I think that getting into a religious debate, as opposed to a political debate, with Republicans is a bad idea. We're moving into "their" territory and giving ground to them- the ground that in my mind says, "I don't care what your religious beliefs are. We have solid principles that our country was founded on, and they trump your religious beliefs, explicitly in many cases."

This approach could work, but it also may not. I agree that we have to oppose them ENTIRELY- but I think we should be opposing them with the bedrock principles that our founding fathers laid out. Show them that we, too, have VERY deep beliefs about what our country is supposed to be, and that their whole premise is wrong. It's not in the details of their religious beliefs so much as the idea that they have the right to impose their social agenda on people simply because they think God says they should.

It just goes against everything our country was founded on. I think we're throwing that very, very strong principle away if we go down this road.

[madfloridian]

10. I fully agree with it myself. We have to do it.

We have let the right ring paint us as what we are not. The guy from Sojourner magazine was on CNN today, and you could see a pattern developing.

Dean and Jim Wallis are not saying pander, they are saying to define ourselves and stop them from doing it.

I know many evangelical Christians who are scared of Bush. They are lost right now. It is the perfect time.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

47. That's right! We need to define ourselves as the people for all!

Bush has perverted religion to push his horrible causes.

[Adelante]

11. It's a tricky one

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I do know we need to reach out to the people who have been seduced by lying Republican rhetoric and most of them seem to be religious. But the separation of church and state is so very fragile right now, it worries me that the Dems could have to give way on our core principles to achieve this aim.

[Guaranteed]

12. Absolutely.

I wrote another post, here, saying something similar, but I think there's a different, scarier nuance:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1594433&mesg_id=1595235

If we do this, we're taking our founding principles, as the highest moral and political authority in our country, and replacing them with God.

That's very dangerous.

We'd better be VERY careful before we give them this. Just because we're arguing with them over what God and morality means, it doesn't necessarily mean that we're doing the right thing.

[Eloriel]

38. I think you're not properly understanding what the plan is n/t

[Guaranteed]

50. Well, what's the plan?

It sounds like he's going to take our issues and reframe them in a religious way.

[leyton]

13. I think Dean is doing the right thing - he's not ceding an inch of ground.

Dean is reaching out to evangelicals not by saying "We can be just as idiot-minded as the Republicans who you vote for" but by saying "You ought to vote for us". For too long we've written off evangelicals; I think showing them that there's an alternative. Even if we pick off a fraction of evangelicals, we make great strides forward.

There are a lot of people who voted for Bush as the lesser of two evils. We should show that he is indeed an evil, but that we're actually trying to do something good.

[Guaranteed]

15. I think that not only are we ceding political ground if we

do that, but things about our country that go much, much deeper than just the here and now.

That being said, I'm not totally against this. I think it's very dangerous, though, in the long-term, for our country.

[madfloridian]

21. He can not go into the deeper policy issues on his own.

If our Democrats continue to go ahead supporting such wars, then it will up to us in the grassroots to holler about it. Dean can not do that....it is up to congress. He made it clear his views were the same about Iraq, but that it would be up to congress.

Why do you think DFA is continuing? Why do you think there are other such PACs? We are another wing of the party, and we most certainly can help run people who suit our views.

Dean can help change the party image on this. The GOP labeled us, and he is trying to change the label back to what it should me. There are many Christians who are Democrats. We must be clear about all of that.

[leyton]

35. Wait, I don't think we're on the same page.

By ceding political ground, do you mean losing votes or conceding that the Republicans own this or that issue?

What I mean to say is that he's finally having the Democratic party stand up for the moral superiority of its platform. No longer are we saying "yeah, the Republicans own moral values, please vote for us anyway", we're saying "You ought to vote for us because of your Christianity, not despite it."

[FreedomAngel82]

40. If Dean can get one evangelical

think of all who they can reach and who they know in their church. I know a lot of Christians in my church who have the same issues as democrats except for abortion and homosexuality. The thing we have to show is, like Mr. Dean said, is we're not pro-abortion as the republicans have painted us but we're pro-choice in the woman should have the choice in the matter of her own health care and that we believe abortion is legal, safe and RARE. Point out the facts that under Clinton's years and other democratic president's years the abortion rates were down, but not in Bush's years because he is finiacially irresponsible. We also have to show that our party is the American party and we are for the people and justice for all. Point out in the pledge how it says "liberty and justice for ALL." Every citizen. Black, white, straight, gay, Mexican, Jewish, Muslim, etc. We all have the same rights and for one group to take that way is wrong. I think it will be a tough battle but I'm glad he's doing this. The republicans have tried to speak for us on moral issues for too long and it's time that we as a party do it.

[TrogL]

14. There's nothing wrong with getting into religious debate

As long as we come armed and ready to rumble. I know several evanglicals. Even though we don't tread the same theological, we are equally upset with the fundamentalists who have taken over "religion" in the United States (and some parts of Canada).

The problem is that they're too splintered to do anything about it. We need the "mainstream" churches to get off their asses. The Catholics are led by an ancient Pope, the Anglicans are scared of schism (and their numbers) and the Orthodox are ... well ... orthodox but if they were to come together in an ecumenical movement to take back Christianity, we'd all be better served.

On an individual basis, however, we need to come forward (much as non-Evanglicals may be uncomfortable with that) and say "the Jaysus/Jebus of fundamentalism is not the Christ whom I love and loves me."

[ArkDem]

19. Good point.

[JerseygirlCT]

53. I think you need to turn it around

it's not about coming to their ground. It's about talking about the values we have, as Democrats, and pointing out to them why those values represent the values they claim to have.

It's not saying we're changing to suit the evangelicals. It's saying that we've ALWAYS been the party that best represents the same values that evangelical (and other) Christians claim to hold dear.

This is the opposite of playing on the GOP playground. It's taking back the playground from them.

Meantime, it forces all the GOP-owned evangelicals to defend themselves. Jesus had nothing to say about abortion, and plenty to say about how you treat the least among us. While they've been starting wars and widening the gap between the haves and have-nots, we've been cleaning the environment, feeding the poor, clothing the hungry, and educating children. WWJD?

This takes nothing away from a secular government. We simply must talk to people in the language they understand. When we refuse to do that, we're right accused of elitism. Our values remain the same, we're simply communicating them better.

[realFedUp]

16. What a smart cookie he is....

and THIS is just one reason we love him.

[Flint-oid]

17. Amen to that. Thank God for Howard Dean.

[madfloridian]

20. Howard just took a big weapon out of their hands by doing this.

We can not keep killing ourselves like this. It is absolutely the right thing to do. Many religious folks are floundering now, seeing that their religion is getting so extreme. It happened to me.

It was beautiful the way he did this in his interview. He left the press without an issue on this. Well done.

If you did not hear the interview, it is up at C-Span.

[KittyWampus]

22. There's ZERO Mention Of Homosexuality ANYWHERES In Christ's

teachings.

[TrogL]

24. I agree with you

But people keeping it's in the Bible.

http://members.shaw.ca/trogl/bibquote.html

[kath]

70. RIght. Real Christians should focus on Christ's teachings, ie the NEW

Testament, and downplay the contradictory Old Testament crap.

And Christ (acc. to the Gospels) was a flaming liberal, dammit.

[deadparrot]

23. As long as the Democratic Party doesn't yield

to the Evangelicals' radical beliefs, I will gladly take their votes.

We need to become the big tent party, like the Repugs are now, and we need to bring in religious if we mean to do that. Like it or not, most people in the United States do consider themselves religious to a certain degree, and we need to take them into account. We can gain some Evangelical votes bey reframing the debate. Granted, I don't think Evangelicals will ever vote for the Democrats in a majority, but if we can pick up even a few percentage points here and there, it'll make a difference.

[fnottr]

48. I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean to yield anything

...This is Howard Dean we're talking about. He's just trying to show how our policies and values are really much the same as a lot of what's in the bible.

[deadparrot]

67. That's what I think, too...

but I know some DUers get so damn worked up the moment any Democrat dares breathe anything about religion, howling that we're "Republican-lites, or whatnot.

[fnottr]

68. Personally, I rather religion never got so heavily mixed up into politics

However, that genie was let out of the bottle long ago. I figure as long as we're stuck talking about this moral values shit, we might as well show that our polices are far more moral than the republicans'. Think about it, the only things the republicans really have going for them in regards to religion are gays and abortion. Everything else is pretty much our territory. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus's message about preaching morality wasn't 'go and get the laws changed and kill the sinners' but more like 'go out and nicely tell your beliefs to people and demonstrate them in your everyday life'

[deadparrot]

69. I'm all for seperation of church and state,

Keeping religion out of government, and vica-versa, but as I stated before, most people describe themselves as religion, or at least they express belief in a higher power. Right now, the Republicans are tagging us as "anti-child," "anti-family," blah, blah, blah, and all that bullshit. You're right, what we believe *is* a lot more moral than the Republican agenda, except we're letting them define "morality" in terms of homosexuality and abortion. We need to start definining it as civil rights, health insurance for all (especially kids), a foreign plicy that promotes peace around the globe and not terrorism, understanding between races and religions, etc. Jesus was a socialist....cripes, my Republican, 60+ year old religion teacher said that.

We've got SO much more ammo...we just need to learn how to use it.

[fnottr]

71. what it comes down to

is people want to vote for people who they feel they share common values with. There are a lot of religious people in this country who probably would identify us, except that the right wing has painted us all as 'godless commies' so they don't give us a second look.

As I said, I wish religion wasn't an issue in politics, but it is, and we must address it, not through cynically pandering to people's faith, but rather by demonstrating how our much in common our views are.

There are plenty of liberal christians, but I've noticed they don't tend to make a lot of noise about there faith. While I admire that greatly, I think that the current state of affairs calls for them to go forward and show people that you can be a perfectly good christian and not a be a mindless fundie drone.

[deadparrot]

74. Agreed. nt

[Celeborn Skywalker]

62. Didn't Clinton win the evangelical vote? n/t

[Uzybone]

25. Good idea

of course if it was any other Dem people here would be calling him/her rep-lite.

Loving Christ and being a democrat actually go hand in hand in my opinion.

[DemocracyInaction]

29. Bingo---I like his instincts...in fact this was sort of the message

of a post I stated this a.m. about the Dems getting religion. My point was that we let con-men like Falwell and Robertson and right-wing preachermen REDEFINE Christianity and never said squat. It's time to in essence quote the Bible back at them, expose them, and expose them as coroporations involved in lining their own sleazy pockets, etc. It's this shit that put the Repubs into office and it's about time we explain to the morons who are sucking down this Americanization of Jesus just EXACTLY what Jesus did say---and it ain't even remotely what these goddamn ferrets are preaching!!! I am soooooo pleased to see that Howard has excellent instincts unlike the dunderheads we have been loaded with in this party who have absolutely none (perhaps that's because their heads were way too far up Bush's ass to receive any signs and signals). You go, boy...you go!!!

[candy331]

32. Hallelujah! Democray you said a mouthful, it is time that Falwell and

Robertson and the other whole hosts of religious haters be called out. I get sick of the old tub of lard Falwell's face pasted all over the TV screen acting so pious when he is nothing but a hateful greedy scumbag.

[FreedomAngel82]

43. Another good thing to do

is if you're talking with a religious person one-on-one who you know is republican and listens to republican people like Limbaugh and O'Reilly is point out their hypocriacy with the facts. Show how they lie because lying is a big sin to a lot of Christians.

[GOPBasher]

30. I'm really excited about this, but I don't want to compromise

certain beliefs, such as equal rights for gays and separation of church and state, which means tax money cannot go to religious organizations. Having said that, I do think we can get a lot of evangelicals if we talk about all the other issues -- povery, environment, etc.

[Eloriel]

39. You won't see Dean compromising any core beliefs or Dem values

Explaining, promoting and enhancing those beliefs and values -- and recasting them in terms of Christianity's core beliefs and values -- is what he's up to.

[Guaranteed]

52. But he needs to make it clear that no matter the outcome

of any religious debate, the American social and political principles take precedence.

[GOPBasher]

55. That's cool. That's what I'd like. n/t

[Cocoa]

31. here's an article on it

looks like a promising approach...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/107/13.0.html

<snip>

In response to a question from CT, Dean said, "We are definitely going to do religious outreach. Even in my campaign I was interested in reaching out to evangelicals." Later, Dean tactfully expanded his remarks, noting "our religious outreach will not solely be to evangelical Christians but to Americans of all faiths."

Earlier in the week, congressional Democrats hosted a study session with University of California-Berkeley linguist George Lakoff on how to communicate the Democratic commitment to moral and religious values. The congressional Democrats also asked evangelical Jim Wallis, a veteran of many left-leaning causes, to teach Democratic press secretaries on how to reach evangelical audiences. Wallis told CT that he foresees a rising presence of evangelicals among Democratic leaders. Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives designated Congressman James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, the son of a minister, as their leader of a "faith working group.

To reach the voters alienated from the Democratic Party, Dean has been studying the way that the Christian Coalition built its movement, according to people who have spoken with the former governor. He promised that he would decentralize and fund the Democratic National Committee responsibilities into all 50 states. Many committee party leaders said that this promise played a big role in his election as party chairman.

[Iggytop]

33. We will win if we can just get those Evangelicals :-/

But at least we are doing something to counter the * crarpola...

[Spiffarino]

45. That's missing the point

It's about taking back the debate, and it's brilliant and long overdue. Whatever your religion or lack of it, it has to be about the moral high ground. As Dems, we've been stupid to let any reasonable constituency go to the Repubs.

Evangelicals are not all freeper-types. I know plenty of them, and many of them are saddened by what BushCo is doing in their name. Now that Bush has come out with his real agenda - you know, the one he wouldn't talk about until it was a done deal - some evangelicals who supported him are having second thoughts.

I think they, like most Americans, are ready for a new, positive message of hope and compassion that isn't full of empty rhetoric. I'm not saying we should favor any religion over another - God forbid! - but that we must respect all people of goodwill whatever their beliefs.

Edit: And that goes for all you agnostics and atheists of goodwill, too!

[Hell in a Handbasket]

34. heavan forbid we take some of the religious vote away from the GOP.

nt

[elshiva]

36. The Truth of the Matter is this

Evangelical does not have to equal radical right "Christianity." I'm glad to see Jim Wallis mentioned in this thread. Evangelism is about spreading the message of the Bible. That's right. Helping the poor is almost on every other page of the Bible, but conservatives act as if it were one long anti-gay tome, which it ain't, already!

[FreedomAngel82]

46. Exactly

My church recently started talking about being evangelical and at first I got an iffy feeling but my preacher pointed out how it's just getting the word out and reaching out to people. That's just the term for what they do. I'm glad Mr. Dean is working with people who know about this and he's studied this and has a plan. There are plenty of Bible verses in the New Testament in the gospel books of Jesus' teachings where he's reaching out to the poor and has plenty of stories about the poor and whatnot. I think the people went to the republicans who are religious because of all the falsity they put out about the democratic party and they really were very outspoken about their values even if a lot of them were lying and turn around and be hypocritical. They only talk about abortions and homosexuality. What about all these other issues the Bible talks about? I'm glad Mr. Dean pointed out that he was Christian too so that way he can relate to a lot of the evangelicals.

[zulchzulu]

37. Plenty of progressive Christians out there...believe it or not...

...no pun intended.

http://www.google.com/search?q=progressive+christians&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[Cha]

41. Yeah, my sister is one.

She's sees right through bush and doesn't understand how all those people can get sucked in by his lies.

[blueblitzkrieg]

42. Howard is really going to shake things up.

And we desperately needed that. Go Dr. Dean!!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

44. kick

[HR_Pufnstuf]

49. ...and now GannonGate..

man, this couldn't be better timing.

what comes around goes around.

[applegrove]

56. Good. I don't think liberals can afford to ignore human beings just

because they are devout somehow. I think they have many in the leadership & acadamia who are telling the Democrats to 'state their case' for values. Finally.

[lojasmo]

57. Democrats are the ones with truly "christian" values

We should take back the churches.

Go Gov. Dean!

[XemaSab]

58. Here's the deal: it's about framing

He's trying to turn discussion of Christianity from a strict father frame to a nurturing parent frame.

Read Lakoff if you don't get this.

[madfloridian]

59. I am reading his latest right now.

It IS about words, after all. They twisted words, used them against us until a word like liberal is, as Dean said, unable to be rehabilitated.

[realFedUp]

60. Book those churches Doc.

Walk with the people.

[googly]

61. What? Dean wants us to become JESUS FREAKS now?

Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
Or are we to become political prostitutes, and sell
anything to gain a payback?

[DaDeacon]

63. Ah , no he just see the big picture...

Fact is this group did vote for the Chip based on his values (this group not all) where Kerry and many other Dems worked hard to hide any trace of moral base. THE TRUTH is that the left follows the path of christ much more than the right e.g. helping out those who need help, helping the poor, seeking peace over war. This group shouldn't be shuned becouse they practice a religion but rather shown that our side does more to promote you belifes that the other. It is said that the repubs could move the evans. to the poles on JUST anti-gay BS and "I like to pray".

[Liberty Belle]

64. Not at all. Dean is not promoting religion in government.

He is merely trying to convince some religious people who voted for Bush that our Party has much to offer that supports their value system.

We should all care about helping the poor, the sick, and the elderly. Bush ignores this at his own peril. As more and more religious people realize that those they care about are being hurt by Bush's immoral policies, we have an opportunity to instigate a mass exodus from the GOP, or at least work with the non-neocon voters to block some of the worst legislation Bush wants to enact. People of all faiths--or no faith--can surely agree that cutting Medicaid and Social are bad ideas, for example, or that providing safe access to birth control is one good way to reduce the number of abortions.

The fact is, a very high percentage of people in America are Christian, and something like 40-50% of of voters are evangelicals. Not all are crazed fundamentalists. I spoke with an evangelical woman yesterday who is fed up with many at her church. We need to create a wedge between the zealous control freaks and the others are are basically good at heart, just misguided.

[googly]

75. We should seek people out for their "moral" beliefs, not Jesus

followers, which is what the evangelicals are. It is
not following Jesus alone that provides a moral compass.
I am doing just great in my life, and have never been
inside of a christian church for mass, sermon, or whatever
they have there. I love this country because there is
freedom to practice my religion (hindu). But my religious
beliefs have nothing whatsoever to do in my political views
or practice.

Incidentally, I was strongly for Dean in 2004, by far. He has
a great mixture of human liberal values, fiscally conservative
values and a good head on his shoulders.

[NewJeffCT]

66. I'm an atheist and I agree with what Dean is doing

I'm also not a Dean supporter, but this is 100% the right move. He is trying to reframe the values debate into one that talks about true Christian values like helping the poor & downtrodden - those least able to help themselves, instead of the RW values of gay marriage and abortion.

[Liberty Belle]

76. Yes. Actually, most major religions support these principles.

Islam teaches its followers to be generous in giving to charities, for example. Buddhists are encouraged not to place a high value on worldly goods, and so on.

[Dr Fate]

72. You are confusing Bush/media with Dean.

Dean merely conveyed that its time evangelicals heard the TRUTH about how Republicans are lying to them about their values.

[Lindacooks]

65. Here's a link:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/107/13.0.html

Take it with a grain of salt, because CT is a pretty conservative rag, but at least it's a link!

[Finding Rawls]

73. You need more than words to connect to evangelicals

I'm afraid Dean doesn't have it