Something to keep in mind as Dean becomes DNC chair

[lancdem]

I predict you will continue to see MSM stories citing anonymous "sources" bitching about Dean.

Ignore them.

All that matters is what he does now that he has the job. Let's keep our eyes on the ball. Deal?

Edit: We will likely see stories about the GOP being "gleeful" about Dean becoming chair. Pay no attention to those, too.

[Ann Arbor Dem]

1. Deal! n/t

[JoMama49]

3. I heard an argument last night by a talk show host who is

kind of republican lite that the reason Dean should not get this job is that it will take focus off of the issues and put the focus on Dean (because of his scream) himself. Although I know the RW will rail on and on about Dean, I believe if we ignore them and get onto the issues, they will soon be drowned out.

[FreedomAngel82]

69. Right on

I think right now after Dean is in is just totally ignore the media and what they say. Just keep our focus on getting the job done. Getting people in Congress and the Senate that are democrats by 2006. If we do this and ignore anybody who tries to stop us we'll prevail. :D

[mattclearing]

82. I say let them focus on Dean.

It's a win-win.

If they focus on Dean, Dean can defend himself. He's never taken any freeper bullshit before, and he won't now.

Meanwhile, it will leave potential '08 candidates out of the line of fire.

I say paint a target on Dean a mile wide. Make him Michael Moore for all I care. He doesn't hold elective office, so who cares what they say about him?

[wesrose]

2. delete

[stray cat]

4. Lets give him every bit of grass roots support we can

This includes countering media smear campaigns.

[marcologico]

5. The thing I'll keep in mind is that he promised not to run in '08.

If he keeps that one, I'll be happy.

[wesrose]

6. So will I!

[lancdem]

12. The DNC chair can't run

[marcologico]

15. The DNC chair also makes the rules.

p.s. welcome wesrose!

:toast:

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[marcologico]

31. So why is Dean already talking about moving the first primary to NH?

And if you don't think the chair sets the agenda you've never attended a meeting.

[chocolateeater]

34. Do you know the odd thing about that?

The first primary is already in NH. You probably already knew that though.

[lojasmo]

36. No, I bet s/he didn't. EOM

[chocolateeater]

37. You are probably right.

Never let the facts get in the way of a dearly held theory.;-)

[marcologico]

44. Yes, let's get the facts straight. Link:

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=50340

[lojasmo]

50. I think that's a first! Good on ya! But...

it doesn't say it's a priority of his, though. also not a direct quote. I see no evidence that he has advancing the NH primaries to first in nation status as a goal....I also see no evidence that the DNC chair "makes the rules"

Sorry. Next!

[marcologico]

39. Hilarious. Now if I really need to clarify that point, I'd be glad to. n/t

[lojasmo]

35. Ah, but you said "makes the rules"....you're changing the subject.

And If you'd be so kind as to provide a link or actual quotation about NH? I bet you won't, though.

[marcologico]

40. I've already found it once, but I'll save you the trouble of searching

and find it again. Hang on.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

41. Hanging on...

... since us non-sponsors can't search on our own. Then again, you are the one making the point, so it is incumbent on you to provide the evidence to support your argument.

[marcologico]

42. "he would support New Hampshire’s first-in-the-nation primary status"

That's the quote, I'm still looking for the article.

[marcologico]

48. In case you're having trouble finding the excerpt, here it is:

"All four of New Hampshire’s DNC members have pledged their support for Dean, who has said he would support New Hampshire’s first-in-the-nation primary status."

Can I make it any clearer for you?

[marcologico]

43. link to article:

"Chairman Dean: Democrats gamble with their future"

The NH Union Leader, February 2, 2005

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=50340

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

46. Well that link confirms it...

...marcologico said:

So why is Dean already talking about moving the first primary to NH?

and chocolateeater replied:

Do you know the odd thing about that?
...The first primary is already in NH. You probably already knew that though.

And then you post a link that confirms that Dean supports keeping NH's preeminence in the Primaries -- he is not "talking about moving the first primary to NH" as it's already there.

Just come out and state why you do not like Dean and let's have an open, honest discussion. Inventing fictitious positions for him is a cheap technique.

[AntiCoup2K4]

51. He doesn't like Dean because his daddy told him not to.

...or his dorm-mates daddy or however it works with these two sharing a user name

Hey Chad & Marcus... Who does Bruce say is gonna win the game tomorrow? Gotta make sure I bet on the other side :evilgrin:

[BlueInRed]

58. Amen

Thank you for hitting the nail on the head.

Just come out and state why you do not like Dean and let's have an open, honest discussion. Inventing fictitious positions for him is a cheap technique.

EXACTLY RIGHT!

[marcologico]

59. I have facts, quotes, and links. You have names. Who wins? n/t

[BlueInRed]

62. Gee, I had facts too but you conveniently ignored them

Get over it. This is a non-issue and about your dislike of Dean and not what he said. You apparently don't consider wikipedia and the Washington Post a place where you find facts. Interesting.

[BlueInRed]

47. Umm... that means keeping the NH primary as it is

I'm sure there are 100s, if not 1000s, of articles confirming NH has the first primary and has been concerned about losing that status. Just one, from July of 1999, discussing the 2000 primary, in the Washington Post:
<snip>
New Hampshire yesterday set its primary for Feb. 8. But so worried is New Hampshire about losing its first-primary status that Gov. Jeanne Shaheen (D) signed a bill this week that allows the state to schedule its primary at any point this year -- or as state GOP Chairman Steve Duprey put it, half-jokingly, "It could be next week."
<snip>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/primary070299.htm

and also from wikipedia:
<snip>
The best-known of the American presidential primaries is the one in New Hampshire, because it is the first in each quadrennial cycle. Although established in 1916, this primary drew little attention until 1952, when a change in proceedings allowed more candidates to be listed on the ballot. That created a contest that drew notice from then-new television coverage, and its importance was cemented when Jimmy Carter took a surprise win in 1976 and rode it to the presidency.
<snip>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_primary

[marcologico]

49. The operative word here is "status." Right now that belongs to Iowa's

caucus, which is technically not a primary but obviously has the "status" of one.

[BlueInRed]

54. So then you have answered your own misstatement about Dean

Using your own argument, as you have said that Iowa is not a "primary" but a caucus. So, the quote you use proves absolutely nothing about New Hampshire's primary schedule in relation to the Iowa caucuses.

[marcologico]

55. I said Iowa has the "status" of a primary, which it obviously does. n/t

[BlueInRed]

56. But, that is not what Dean said and you know it n/t

[marcologico]

57. Dean says "he would support New Hampshire’s first-in-the-nation primary

status."

Now, whether that's accurately reported is another issue.

[BlueInRed]

61. Get over it, your attempts to twist the quote are fruitless

Like the other person said, this is about you disliking Dean and trying to find anything you can use against him. The quote doesn't support your position. You know it too. And you simply ignored the evidence I provided which talked about NH's first primary "status" (the WP article).

Give it a rest. Like the other poster said, this is about your feelings for Dean, not what he said. I've watched enough of these threads to understand the ultimate issue, which is you really dislike Dean, you are really ticked off he's winning the DNC race and you will tear him down even when the quotes don't support your position.

[marcologico]

64. Let's just say I'm not blinded by love for this particular politician,

which allows me to see with the eyes of truth.

[BlueInRed]

65. I am not "blinded", I support Clark, Dean and SEVERAL others

I am hardly blinded by love. I usually try to avoid these "fights" with you, but this is not a real complaint and can't be simply ignored. This kind of misinformation is as bad as what comes from Republicans at all our politicians.

You know, I was never a Kerry fan. But I sucked it up and supported him anyway for the good of the party. It was far more constructive than fighting irrelevant wars with fellow Democrats over non-issues. I hope someday you will decide to do the same, as this is pretty much a done deal and it will not help Democrats to constantly attack the DNC chair. Try attacking Republicans instead.

[marcologico]

66. Don't worry, it's an old song. I've heard it before.

:nopity:

I still don't get it, but I won't hold it against you.

p.s. as far as I'm concerned Dean is no better than the GOP Kerry-bashers he professes to "admire."

[BlueInRed]

67. hopeless (should be attached to post #66)

I'm sad for you. Really.

[lojasmo]

76. You should remove the quotation marks

because you just made it seem like the article you cited quoted dean....it didn't.

[marcologico]

78. I'm directly quoting the source. If I removed the q marks

I'd be committing plagiarism.

:shrug:

[lojasmo]

80. But he was never QUOTED as having said what you claim he did.

You're MAKING UP AN ATTRIBUTION to Dean that was NEVER made by your source.

And you didn't cite your source in your "Dean quote"

It's all crap all the time.

[marcologico]

81. Where did I say he was quoted? And just for the record, he was.

Dean was indirectly quoted in a source which I directly quoted -- correctly, completely, and accurately.

[lojasmo]

83. Your argument is scatological. EOM

[marcologico]

86. Thanks for excreting. n/t

[chocolateeater]

71. Thank you for clarifying

that this is about the Iowa Caucuses, instead of the New Hampshire Primary.

[marcologico]

52. This was an issue and Dean "promised" not to change Iowa's caucus

position, as you'll recall. . .


. . .without a good "reason." Gee, wonder what he'll come up with?

[lojasmo]

73. Not that you're generally interested in actual quotations or citation, but

"I don't believe that the system's going to be changed or that the order is going to be changed," Dean said in an interview with The Des Moines Register. "You're going to have to show me a reason to change. I'm just not going to change it for change's sake."

From MyDD

No promises. He said he doesn't believe it's going to be changed. He said "you're going to have to show me a reason to change" Evidently, the NH delegation feels there's a reason.

As I said before, your citation has no direct quotation from him regarding a change in the schedule. Your citation is crap...You're stirring the shit because you don't like dean.

No surprises.

[marcologico]

74. Okay, he didn't even bother to promise.

The word I quoted in the message was "reason."

What Dean said was, "You're going to have to show me a reason to change."

Did I spell it wrong?

[lojasmo]

75. No, the word you quoted first was "promised"

And you simply made it up to manufacture a position for dean which he didn't actually hold....no surprise.

[marcologico]

77. I said "in the message."

In the subject line I was using the word as a word, which calls for quotation marks or italics, to characterize Dean's remark.

[moggie12]

7. Amen - wanna help???

Please see my earlier post if you're interested in doing some activist-type things to help Dean:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1567741

Good post -- we need to expect continuous sleazy attacks on Dean and not let it get under our skin -- best defense is a good offense!!

[stray cat]

11. Thanks for your work moggie12!

[lancdem]

13. Thanks!

:)

[mzmolly]

8. Deal!

:toast:

[Southsideirish]

9. We are going to contribute as much as we can to the DNC on the day it

becomes official.

[lancdem]

14. Hey, great idea

[Us vs Them]

22. I was planning on that, too.

They keep asking for money, but I've yet to actually send a cent. Just waiting for Dean Day.

[ultraist]

85. Make sure your DNC donation ends in .06 to brand your bucks!

$10.06, 20.06, 30.06, whatever you can manage.

[Maat]

10. Deal!

n/t

[WetBarNone]

16. Dean will weed out the less liberal in the party

Those that will be Left will need to vote twice as hard to win any major elections in the future.

[marcologico]

18. You mean the centrist fiscal conservatives?

Like Dean?

[stray cat]

19. Dean actually appears to be an outspoken moderate.

I think he is a real progressive meaning freedom of speech and opportunity. Unlike Bush, he doesn't appear to be a totalitarian my way or the highway individual. Some states are less liberal than others and we do believe in representative goverment don't we? Maybe we should abandon it?

Dean believes in conviction. He said some people in the south supported him even though they disagreed on his stance on abortion because he had conviction. Dean is not a litmus test democrat.

However, welcome to DU

[Guaranteed]

20. He's basically just good old American common-sense.

Not accepting fascist policies doesn't make him a liberal- it makes him an American.

[stray cat]

21. Amen to that. An honest, straight-speaking responsible American

[WetBarNone]

28. ...

is hard to find.

[WetBarNone]

30. His stance on law abiding gun owneship was grounded in Vermont

Let's hope he carries that into his national leadership role.

[Guaranteed]

72. Totally agreed. nt

[Eloriel]

38. I think he defies categorization anyway

He's a hybrid in my mind. He accomplished some VERY liberal things in VT as governor (healthcare for all kids and the program that cut child abuse by 43%), and did it after/while accomplishing some nicely conservative ones (fiscal responsibility and balancing the budget).

One of the things that has made him absolutely unique among politicians that I know of is that he listens. As he listened to his national constituency during his campaign, his views and positions changed slightly and definitely became more liberal.

[WetBarNone]

27. However is everywhere undefined

but thanks for the welcome of that I am well aware.

[Dr Fate]

32. Dean is not about "weeding out" Democrats...

...he is about weeding out Republicans from elected office- that is why some fear him.

[WetBarNone]

33. If he is the Democratic wing of the Democratic party

then it's more than just replacing those outside of the party proper and it would include removing those that are the party pooper.

[Dr Fate]

87. Good. Whatever. n/t

n/t

[Guaranteed]

17. And don't expect things to change overnight.

Remember, the strategy is to start local. We'll see results most likely in state assemblies and senates to begin with, maybe a pick-up in the House, with some luck.

[roguevalley]

23. If they rail about Dean for who he is and what he believes, lets

rail on theirs: Ken Melman, closet case and professional asshole for hire.

[lancdem]

24. I agree

[Dr Fate]

26. The more they attack him - the more we will know they fear him.

We need to be on our guard- they will try to "Swiftboat" the guy.

[Cha]

29. Yeah, they will...

it will be interesting to see how Dean handles it.

[marcologico]

45. So far they're slobbering on him, starting with the Wash Times.

And here's the link you were about to ask me for:

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050202-031510-6827r.htm

[Cha]

60. I'm not asking you

for anything.

[calimary]

53. ABSOLUTELY. Put them securely on IGNORE.

And then, do this:

Call, write, fax your reps (see www.congress.org for info locally AND in Washington) and maybe those in a neighboring district - not JUST your own, and DEMAND - repeat - DEMAND that they get squarely behind Howard Dean. Tell 'em you are and that you have started sending money again (or some such thing, presuming you have or you intend to) or that you're signing up again or whatever - MAINLY BECAUSE OF HOWARD DEAN. If they're wavering or spineless or constant capitulators or other forms of Neville Chamberlains, they REALLY need to hear this. If they don't know what a backbone is, tell 'em to go talk to Barbara Boxer about it. She'll be happy to explain it.

And then, do this:

Call, write, fax your local media. Or maybe also some national outlet. Newspaper, radio station, network and/or local network outlet. Let THEM know, too, that you support Howard Dean, you're spreading the word, he speaks for you, and they give him a hard time AT THEIR PERIL. DEMAND that they give him a fair shake.

I know, I know, you may (correctly) assume this isn't worth it. But lemme tellya, it sure helped with Barbara Boxer. She said she'd stand up if she heard from enough people exhorting her to do so. She was avalanched with it, and she did. The media, especially, may shrug off one or two of us. But if one or two THOUSAND or one or two HUNDRED THOUSAND of us make our feelings known, they're more apt to sit up and pay attention. You can enhance that if you contact one of their advertisers.

And, BY THE WAY - this is VERY VERY important: when you write or fax or even email, MAKE SURE, PLEASE-PLEASE-PLEASE, that you CC whatever it is to another outlet or the recipient's competitor. Not much gets done if they're allowed to conclude that this is happening in a vacuum. If more people get this, in more ways, your message is apt to have more impact.

Please believe me on this. I used to be in the media and saw this happen again and again when enough of the public spoke up about something. I CANNOT tell you how important this is!

[BlueInRed]

70. great advice

and as for the "ignore", I may extend that rule to some Dean bashers here!

[imagine1989]

63. Welcome to the media.

I ignore lots of things. not a problem at all. the problem will be keeping independents from hearing this stuff.

[FreedomAngel82]

68. I'm with you

On this board I used to go to this one republican was saying how excited and happy she'd be to have Dean because it'd make them all closer and all this other nonsense. I can't wait until Dean is confirmed!

[Individualist]

79. Media whores have no credibility

I already ignore them, just as I do the obsessive Dean bashers here.

[ultraist]

84. I agree, we should work on BUILDING up the party, not TEARING it down

Once Dean is nominated, we should show our support. He is our best option for this position and while we may not agree with him on everything, let's not act like trashy freepers and smear him for no reason. It's not that difficult to disagree with a position without smearing.

BTW, I was NOT a Dean supporter during the primaries. It's time to move on, it's a NEW DAY!