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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:16 AM
Original message
Iraq War is Going to Tear the U.S. in Two.
After watching the Nightline Town Meeting, it's clear
the pro-war side (Perle, Sen Birdbrain Allen, and the
ex-coalition spokesman in the audience) is insane and
will never admit they have made a mistake, much less
that the war is lost. It's also clear that there is
great passion against the war and that it will continue
to deepen and grow as the insurgency grows and the cost
to the US grows and the bloody madness in Iraq continues.

Actually, Perle did admit a mistake:
that the US should have turned Iraq over to the Iraqis
almost immediately after the invasion. In the next sentence,
he put the fault on the Iraqis for not taking responsibility
for their own country, I guess meaning that they should
have immediately wrested power from the US & British forces.
Koppel asked him if he meant Chalabi
should have taken over, which Perle sloughed off, and
Wilson mocked the suggestion that Chalabi and his
100 supporters could have taken over. It was a bizarre
claim, and shows how insane Perle is.

Perle also claimed the Sunday election (in which candidates dare
not even be listed on the ballot?) is evidence that the
war is not lost. But the war is lost. They could have a phony
election every day of the week and it wouldnt change the
fact that the Iraqis will sooner or later control their own
country, that the US will not, that US puppets will not,
that US & British forces will never be able to control that
country or the people. I dont know if it'll be as bad as
Vietnam, but how bad does it have to be to tear the country
in two? It took Johnson 4+ years to get it in Vietnam, and
the VN war went on for another 7 years after that. How insane
and/or evil are BushCo? How bad will it get in Iraq? How bad will
the division get in the US over Iraq?
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Did yesterday's large death toll register with ordinary

I wonder if it did.

Something even worse will have to happen before most Americans pay attention and start questioning the war.

And the media hasn't questioned * yet. I don't think they will. Even if this sham of an election causes widespread battles, most Americans won't hear about it.

We haven't yet seen how bad the divisions will get. Just wait until they start a draft, which they will call by any other name.

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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. I think we have a draft called by another name, now.
The media will get with it when it pays to get with it. I hardly think they are the front runners any more than the Gov. is. Things only move when the voters make them move.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great media review. They are insane.
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pocket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. buy guns
civil war may come again
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. okay...
two things...just a suggestion, my guess is that anyone who says buy those items might be, under the patriot act hell, considered "a person of interest." which means, poof... no reason to even discuss where anyone went.

that said, for those of us who don't like those things... can someone protect us or do we dig an underground gateway to Canada to survive?

i tell you, they will do anything... and it may be very near when the election in Iraq breaks the middle east into a war that I cannot imagine...

One side fighting: Iraq minorities/Jordan/Irawn... Kurds/Afghans/Turkey America and Al Saud army which is, well America. EU/Russia/China and Australia/Canada pull their money and put US in sanctions for war crimes .... stock crashes... no one goes to church, people will go insane... this is so far off from Hoover... this is Hoover on PCP x 100 and add "the bomb" and the "missles" and that our government will will kill us as well ... this sounds to me, like what it always has and I was afraid to say outloud... Nazi/CIA/Ethnic Purity/Confederates (in the name of God)... this is the final solution part duex :( am i jumping to conclusions? well, having lived behind the iron curtain and having family go through Nazi factories... and watching my father lose his mind over this... I am thinking this looks like the plan since the restoration. Playing Muslims against Jews, Christians versions against Christian versions against fanatics... this is not good.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Hoover on PCP x 100 and add "the bomb"
ROTFLMAO!!!!! I realize the seriousness of the situation but WHAT a turn of a phrase!!! BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!! What you said, Lala_rawraw and a heartfelt WELCOME TO DU!!! :toast:
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. IRAQ is an OCCUPATION. It is not a war.
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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. That about sums it up
It's Vietnam part II. If not on the battlefield, then at least here at home. Thirty years from now, this war will still be a divisive issue, the same way Vietnam is today.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. No...

It's a polarized country, Iraq or no Iraq.

And the Bushies are closer to getting out of Iraq than I think people on DU imagine. If it weren't for a couple of border bases from which to harass Iran and lack of a reliable puppet government to let the USAF fly from them, the U.S. would already have left.

Of course, these elections are supposed to get such a reliable puppet government installed, which looks pretty doubtful at this point. The assassination of Allawi is only a matter of time. Iran seems to be close to slipping the net, politically. The U.S. military and CIA are pretty much expended for a couple of years due to Iraq. It's really all down to how much longer American taxpayers want to keep on wasting $100 billion and 5000 lives a year to fight several ten thousands of machine-gun wielding brown people for piles of mud brick and concrete rubble.

I'll be surprised if there are more than 10,000 Americans in Iraq a year from now. I expect the U.S. to be disinvited from Iraq within the year.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. UM
I do not recall the U.S. being INvited to Iraq
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. If these were sane, policy minded people
I would agree. But they are ideologues who have consistently rebuked policy wisdom and the facts as presented to them that do not fit their view. Furthermore at the top you have a man who does not admit to ever being incorrect - and pulling down to 10,000 would be conceding defeat.

In 2002 their lack of concern for reality - but their belief/faith in their created reality (through the lens of their ideology) became evident. There is not "common sense" evident - and your description reads as a common sense one.

I agree, however, that we were polarized before Iraq and remain polarized after Iraq. And daily we grow more entrenched in our polarization (reading things to confirm, rather than switch, our positions). Things have to go really wrong - e.g., hit many, many people directly in their lives - imo before we see movement beyond the current polarization. Frankly, I think that the administration - will continue to pursue their ideological agenda - in Iraq and at home - in ways that do NOT deal with reality in their policies but on their ideologically "fit" (created) reality... and as such it is very possible they will pursue policies (iraq and other) that do begin to hit home for more and more of the public. Their own emboldened actions just might end up breaking up the entrenched polarization.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. i don't know about the iraq war
but i think the fundies and extreme right wingers have already fired the first shots.
the most noticable, t. mcveigh, the murder of abortion doctors next.
third was republican congressmen criticising clinton when clinton pointed out hate radio played a part in mcveigh's actions.

what happens in the near future -- i don't know.
and for the record -- i don't own a gun and am for gun laws -- but i think the american neighborhood has become dangerous.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
11. Steal a country, rape their economy, kill civilians leaving brother,
sister, father, mother, cousin, uncle behind to fester, install appointees, dictate, discriminate, torture, maim, and disrespect the customs.... sounds like a sound path to peace if you ask me.

If they would have honored the contracts that Germany, Russia and France had with the Iraqis, they "might" have been able to stir up a small cinder of legitimacy.... but Noooooooo, being the pigs that they are, they hogged the spoils of war all to themselves. Big mistake, thinking that Iraqis are stupid.

From the American body count, they appear to be quite resourceful and definitely not stupid.
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