What is school like in the Red States?

[Mizmoon]

I live in NY where even the not-so-great schools provide a very good education. My kids go to the local public school and have taken years of French, play instruments in several school organizations, take advanced math, etc.

Teachers here get tenure, make a good salary after a few years, get pension and other benefits.

I hear crazy stories about Red State schools. Do the teachers really need second jobs? Do they have the money for music programs? Do they really teach creationism?

We keep talking about the state of education contributing to the death of critical thinking ... is their education that different from that of a child in California or Maine?

[Stuckinthebush]

1. Well, I live in a community with the some of the best schools in the state

But we are an island unto ourselves. We have gone above and beyond the call of duty when taxes for schools are concerned, and parents are intimately involved with the school system.

The rest of Alabama isn't so fortunate. SUre, there are pockets of good schools, but our systems don't pay teachers as well as other states, and we still put way too much money and energy into sports as opposed to AP courses.

[LizW]

2. There's huge variation between systems

In places where you have high property values and high sales tax revenue, the schools are great. Teachers are excellent and are paid fairly well. Of course, you have to pay a lot to live there. Houses are expensive.

In other places, there is a dual system. The public schools range from okay to horrible. There is also a system of private schools, and the people who can afford to send their children there, and refuse to ever raise any taxes for the public schools.

[MsTryska]

3. Well here in Georgia

we've taken evolution out of the school books.


so i think that gives you a pretty good idea.

[BamaGirl]

4. I'm apparently not the one to ask.

I went to suburban Atlanta schools (graduated in 1990). I took 7 AP classes between my junior and senior years, and I'd put my education up against anything available in the country then, and probably now.

My kids go to city schools in the se corner of Bama. I was told just last week, that they are in the "private school" of our system. My complaints to this point have nothing to do with the quality of the education. They are doing what or more than we did when I was their age. They do seem to think it's perfectly ok to drag their religion and politics right on into school though, and that completely pisses me off. All of my fights with the school are about religion, politics, or one of my daughter's IEP's. The IEP is not a huge issue, because I stay on their asses about it. :evilgrin:

I also think they don't allow them much of a childhood. Some Southern schools are in such a damned hurry to prove there is nothing wrong with them that they go overboard. My kids were doing homework in kindergarten for crissakes. They are in 2 and 3 grades now and regularly have 2 hours of homework. Officially they aren't supposed to have more than 20 minutes a night but I have yet to see it work out that way.

So obviously, my experience with schools is not the norm. There are some truly awful schools in Bama.

Oh yeah, about pay. I can't speak to other systems, but our teachers are paid very well.

[UdoKier]

8. The homework from kindergaten is a nationwide thing, actually.

I think it has a lot to do with NCLB and getting them ready for all the tests.

I'm glad may kid's school provides a prtty rich experience and doesn't just teach to the test.

[flygal]

5. MT - Lowest paid teachers in the country - Mississippi used to

hold that honor. The teachers are CRYING about NCLB - yet, happily voting for the party that won't take their guns away *beating head against wall*

They aren't teaching creationism.

[Doohickie]

6. I live in Fort Worth, TX

My wife is currently a student teacher and will finish her degree next semester. We have two sons, one in 8th grade, one in 12th. We moved here from Michigan in '97.

The way the lines are drawn, our kids don't go to Fort Worth schools. The district we are in covers the southern neighborhoods of Fort Worth and the northern neighborhoods of the next town. Until the last 10 years or so, it was a "small-town" rural district but has irrevocably grown into a major suburban district.

Our sons span a large range of needs. The older one is a hyper-nerd who scored 99th percentile on the ACTs and got 5's on two AP classes as a junior. Our younger son was in full-time special ed from the age of three because of processing and communications difficulties.

Both have thrived in the public schools. We have philosophical run-ins from time to time with teachers and administrations, but for the most part, they do okay. Our oldest is applying to colleges (most of them up North; he's a yankee at heart even if he's lived most his life here). Our youngest has largely gotten over his speech problems and is no longer receiving any special treatment. He's an A-B student.

So overall, we can't complain.

Lately, however, our district has gotten a new superintendent and the high school a new principal. Both are far more interested in passing standardized tests and winning football games, than they are in academics. They cut a band director (going from 6 to 5 for grades 7-12, roughly 600 students on three campuses (7-8, 9, & 10-12)) so they could give the football coaches a raise. There are 14 coaches for 185 players in 7-12 grades.

My older son was in pretty good shape going into his senior year. But this past year, they've changed the school schedule to be less conducive to the band, they cut AP classes, etc. Only because we and other parents raised strenuous objections were the AP courses restored.

Our marching band, which went to state competition last year, ended up being disqualified this year because a student who marched in the regional contest was ineligible even though she had a waiver signed by the principal. Whether he signed the waiver because he was ignorant or he was trying to actually harm the band program is not clear.

The administration hides behind the fact that the Robin Hood state school financing plan is failing. The administration uses that as its excuse. It's been declared unconstitutional by the courts, with a threat to close down all public schools in the state next October if a new system is not in place. For those of you not familiar with Robin Hood, the idea is that tax-rich districts give some of their tax dollars to the state for redistribution to poorer districts. One of the features is that there is a limit on the taxes a district can raise for normal operating expenses without giving it all to the state. Any more than $1.50/$100 of assessed value goes straight to the state, 100%.

Our district, and many others, are at the "$1.50 cap". So even if we want to give more money to the schools in our local area, we cannot.

The state legislature has been well aware of the impending crisis as more and more schools reached the $1.50 cap. Last year, however, instead of calling special sessions for reforming school financing, they had special sessions for, yep, you guessed it, redistricting.

Anyway, getting back to our local situation, I can understand that the schools are wrestling with financial constraints. However, I see our administrators being very parochial in the way they deal with these problems. While cutting the band program, the football team got new astroturf and new video equipment this year. They are cutting teachers while adding administrators. My wife suggested in a letter to the school board (which was copied in the local paper) that perhaps the administrators, all ex-educators themselves, should each teach a class at the middle school or high school level to ease the crunch on teachers.

They don't really seem too interested in making sacrifices on their part, as long as they can collect their money and make the parents and students bear the sacrifices. We are hoping to pull of a Coup d'School Board in the spring and maybe that will get their attention.

Our district was, up until this year, a great example of a suburban district with pretty decent racial harmony, good (bordering on great) academics, and a high level of involvement by the students in extracirriculars, with marching band being the most popular. In the last year, a disturbing trend has started though. I was hoping a new president would change the way people look at education, but I'm not so sure any more.

My wife, in acting as a concerned parent, has virtually assurred that our local district will not hire her. She is looking out for the interests of her children and others that want a quality education. It's gotten to the point that when she sends a letter to the editor, the local paper contacts the superintendent so he can rebut it (and he usually does a crappy job of that).

If things in our current district continue to slide, we may move to another district (if anything better is out there). Private school is NOT an option, patially because of cost and partially on principle (the public schools SHOULD be providing a quality education). If my wife secures a teaching job in a district we think our younger son will do better in, she may simply take him with her to school (which is allowed here).

So.... it's a mixed bag, but the trend is not good.

[UdoKier]

7. Our public schools in San Francisco are wonderful too.

A world apart from the garbage education provided when we lived in Florida.

I swear to god, My son's public school is so wonderful. All the kids are beautiful and bright, the teachers and parents are all highly innvolved, and they teach Japanese language and culture (my family is Japanese/American biccultural so we picked the Japanese bilingual school).

I actually have a bit of an inferiority complex because all the other parents seem so intellectual and sophisticated, and I'm kind of a slob!

But I really believe that the progressive areas of the US provide a MUCH better education in public schools than kids would get even at private schools in the red areas.

And I don't have to worrry about them filling my kid's head with some bible nonsense. None of the teachers or parents at my son's school supported W as far as I can tell.

[funkybutt]

9. Terrible Public Education In New Orleans

I think it's better in other parts of the state. I came up in North Louisiana and with "Gifted" and AP classes, I was pretty well prepared. But down here in New Orleans, its a far different story. I have tutored some children in my area and they are WAY behind. Last year a Valedictorian from a local high school had to take the exit exam like 8 times before she passed. The public schools are just about 100% black here. (Everyone white has either moved from this parish or sends their kids to one of the many Catholic Private schools)I'm pretty sure the public school system of Louisiana is consistently ranked among the lowest (if not THE lowest)

On a brighter note, in recent elections to the School Board, ALL of the incumbent members were voted out. People are sick of it, and have finally realized that these people don't have the kids best interest in mind. Hopefully we're on the right track here.

[Doohickie]

10. Hey, good for you!

I hope we can do that this spring.

I forgot to mention creationism. My older son's class covered it, but the teacher did it as a kind of "compare-and-contrast" thing with evolution. For a while my son seemed to be falling for that creation crap, but I think the teacher purposely made them seriously explore it before bringing them back to science.