The Dems couldn't beat the worst president in history

[Nordic]

I said it before on DU and I'll say it now -- if the Democratic party can't beat GWB, the worst, and FLAGRANTLY worst, president in the history of the United States, and perhaps the worst semi-elected leader of a country throughout the world ...

Then they can't beat anybody.

It's time to burn the house down and build a new one.

I don't blame John Kerry. I grew to admire and love John Kerry and he worked his ASS off and did everything right.

The democratic party did not have their shit together, did not know how to support their candidate, and -- this is the biggest one of all -- did NOT know how to use the media to get the truth out.

Time for the Democratic party to go the way of the Whigs.

Time for a completely, from-the-ground-up, party.

Sorry, folks. The Democratic party died today.

I think America died today, too, but I'm stuck here and have no choice but to fight.

[RememberTheCoup]

1. They could and they did.

But they didn't prevent the vote theft, which is worse IMO. I'll be more than happy to see the Democratic Party go.

[Stuckinthebush]

2. Agreed

It is over.

[Ravenseye]

3. How do we start a new party?

seriously. How do we gut the Democratic party and start fresh?

[Nordic]

5. I don't know. Let many evolve, see what rises to the top

we're fucked anyway, we HAVE to start over.

The Dems couldn't beat Charles Manson.

So it doesn't really matter. I am done with the Democratic party, and so should everybody else.

If you want to stay with a bunch of losers who couldn't beat O.J. Simpson, well that's fine. It's a free country. For a few more days at least.

I think Howard Dean should start a new party. I'd be down with that.

Fear of losing is making us lose anyway. We need to start fresh and go with what we really believe.

Straight talk, no bullshit, everything BRAND NEW.

[RogueTrooper]

4. He may be one of the worst Presidents

but he is also one of the best campaigning politicians of his generation. He has only ever lost one election ( his first election in 1978 ). He was the bridge man between his dad and the religous right in 1988 ( The religous right and W are "old friends" ) and his absense, until very late in the campaign, in 1992 is often cited as one of the reasons his father lost to Clinton. When he ran for Govenor of Texas he took out a popular Democratic Govenor presiding over a booming economy.Y You may not like his methods, and presonaly I find them repelant, but you have to show respect to his ability.

Rove and Bush are more of a partnership than many realize.

[Nordic]

6. That's an excuse

"Bush is a great campaigner"

"They own the media"

"The religious right got him in"

"they own the voting machines"

All excuses.

WHY do they own the voting machines. WHO LET THEM USE these voting machines in this election? THE GODDAMN DEMOCRATIC PARTY, THAT'S WHO.

The Dems should have done everything in their power, every legal trick under the fucking sun, to stop the use of paperless voting machines.

Did they? No.

Did the Dems ever figure out how to actually use the media to their advantage?

No.

Is the religious right a majority in this country?

No.

The bottom line: The Democrats failed.

You fail, you go.

bye bye.

[maxsolomon]

8. acutally what i see is

you fail, you get 4 more years to fuck up more.

[RogueTrooper]

9. No

We underestimated Bush. That is the point I am trying to get across. Too many Democrats ( and for far too long ) have convinced themselves he is going to implode and all we have to do is wait it out.

The Indian saying...

If you sit by the river long enough you will watch your enemy float by.

does not apply to George W. Bush.

I agree that the there are problems with the Democrats and some of the people who run the party. And I cite inability to size up our opponent as a good example of that fuckwitery. But George W. Bush is a right bad bastard and you forget that at your peril.

[wiggs]

19. Democratic leaders

The lack of courage by democratic leaders (Dean, Kucinich, Kennedy, and Byrd excepted) is astounding.

Democratic congressmen and governors should have been standing up every day the last 4 years shouting obsenities about the power grabbing, the dishonesty, the secrecy, the threats to democracy, the threats to the environment, and all the rest. They are supposed to be there for us but they weren't. They are all protecting their own. They are not the opposition, they are part of the problem.

They also allowed control of the media by BA.

Where were the brave leaders who would risk careers to stand with country and public to talk truth about Edmonds, Plame, 9/11 real report, CIA report, Abu Ghraib (they all saw a lot worse then we did)? I don't get it.

Clean house.

[Nordic]

30. exactly. Who was backing up Byrd? NOBODY

The Democratic party left this guy out on the playing field ALL BY HIMSELF.

It was a disgrace.

[Tomee450]

42. Yes

they treated Byrd like they treated the Black Caucus in 2000. No support whatsoever.

[MADem]

36. We have to take the hit, too

Where were we, collectively speaking, TELLING OUR LEADERSHIP what we wanted to hear from them? We failed to communicate to our elected officials exactly how we felt about the power grabbing, the dishonesty, the secrecy...we waited, passively, for them to say something, and then, reactively, we cheered them on, but we did not do enough to vocalize our agenda or frame the debate.

Looks like it's time to get back out there, yelling and hollering and marching in the streets. It's time to write, call, complain, boycott. We have, as a group, economic clout--we need to start USING it.

But if we do not hang together, we will hang separately.

[Nordic]

37. so why can't we elect who's in charge of our own party?

that's what I'd like to know.

That's what I'd like to see.

Why doesn't the Democratic party come up with that, if it's so Democratic?

[wiggs]

39. I hope I'm wrong. But we are not in the loop anymore.

I appreciate your suggestions for action, but I fear it's not enough. Hopefully I'll feel differently in a few days, but there aren't enough of us. Writing, calling, phoning, working, yelling by us was not enough this time. It won't be enough next time.

Revolution and protesting? That probably works if the majority is involved, and they clearly aren't. Otherwise, we're just insurgents with no chance.

I fear that we're going to have to let this degrade to the point where we hit rock bottom as a nation before there's a change. And unfortunately, in world and national politics, rock bottom is pretty scary. More disastrous than we've seen already.

[CitizenRob]

38. I'm done too.

I've been huge for the Democrats. I went to Reno for the past four days to help get out the vote with MoveOn... but once again the Democrats in office couldn't be bothered to speak up for American values.

So that's it. If they can't be bothered to do their job, I can't be bothered to vote for them. Let's make today a new starting point. Let's start forming the new party RIGHT NOW, and stop just talking about. Let's hear some platform plank suggestions:

I got the first one:
1. The top 1% should pay a tax ratio equivalent to the ratio the bottom 99% pays.

[Paxdora]

14. It's not the man...

it's THE TEAM. And the Dems can't cut the mustard anymore. Time to MOVE AHEAD!

[Cats Against Frist]

7. Here's how we start building the new house:

It's my "bleed the red states dry plan."

And, as of now, it has some holes. I'm just pimping it, on the off-chance someone much smarter than myself can make it work.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1305989

[Nordic]

15. that sounds like the "let 'em play with the matches" plan

which is kind of a good plan -- let them have it, let them drive the car and totally wreck it.

Then everyone will see what happened while they were in control, and they will REMEMBER it.

Trouble with that is, well, they may start WWIII in the process. We could all be dead. The environment is certainly gonna get completely destroyed in the next four years.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. I agree. The Dems have been chasing their tails

since 2000, or even before. The party does not have its shit together, and we just got run over. This morning when I heard Kerry was going to concede I kinda lost it; I stomped into the Wellstone Action offices, announced I'd had it with the party, and wanted to know what the hell we were gonna do now. It does sound like they are putting some plans together, but we need more than that. Earlier I'd said McAwful should be summarily sacked and replaced with Howard Dean, but on second thought I don't think that goes far enough, The party is fucking *dead.* We need to build something else from the ground up. I believe it will happen. It has to.

[Paxdora]

11. Hear, hear!

We need a new political party to fight for progressives and liberals, not act like thankful little piggies at the trough!

[Orangepeel]

12. what would your new party do differently?

support a "defense of marriage" constitutional amendment?
support bans on reproductive rights?
be in favor of killing middle-easterners for no good reason as long as it makes us feel safe?

Kerry didn't lose because he ran an ineffective campaign. He ran an excellent campaign. Kerry lost because republicans played on hate, bigotry and fear. A new party won't solve that unless you embrace the same ideals (or lack thereof).

[Paxdora]

16. A new party would EXPOSE the lies that

nurture and exploit hate, bigotry and fear. And that means beginning a concentrated effort to EDUCATE the dumbed-down masses via NEW media methods and learning from Rove about developing quick, effective sound bytes.

[Nordic]

20. oh good grief

I said I didn't blame Kerry. Kerry was great. Is great.

Who didn't stop BBV? The Democratic party.

Who never learned how to use the media? The Democratic party.

Who never learned how to organize their voices in the media? The Democratic party.

Who has godawful lead-filled baggage from years and years of failure? The Democratic party.

Who STILL is unable to convince the un-rich that voting for the rich is not good for them?

The Democratic party.

The Democratic party is a failure. Get used to the idea.

If it couldn't beat Bush, it couldn't beat Satan.

[Was_Immer]

13. Time for the Democratic party to go the way of the Whigs. I AGREE!!!!!!!!

Well fellow united members, we will part ways. Alot of you were green party members, others democrats, and still other's were independents....

We will probably part ways. And soon the democratic party will have a minor civil war of sorts. We lost our senate leader, we lost the presidency, we lost senate and house seats.

The party will evolve and change, evolution can only make us stronger, but we will most likely be the minority party for 12 years to come, at least!

[Paxdora]

18. It already IS!

Time to wake up....wakey, wakey!

[Nordic]

31. this election is proof it's dead. What more proof do you want?

how many more elections and senate seats do you want to lose?

The ship has sunk. Sure, it's a nice ship, but it SUNK. Get used to the idea.

[Touchdown]

17. Wrong. The Dem Party couldn't beat this...

In an election where a solid red state like COLORADO becomes a battleground (and we have these machines too), the democratic party, John Kerry, John edwards, and the rest were doing exactly what was needed. The majority of America was behind us.

The results we see Today are something else entirely.

[MadHound]

22. Sorry, wrong answer

The Democrats could beat BBV if they had started raising a stink years ago. Instead they sat by and let it happen. This is supposed to be the party of trial lawyers, well hell, why didn't we put a few of those folks to good use and bring up BBV to the courts?

But nooooooo, the Dems just sat back and said that BBV was fine by them:eyes:

[Nordic]

23. that's an excuse

Who should have fought tooth and nail, and used every legal challenge imaginable (and yet-to-be-imagined) to keep BBV from being used in 2004?

The Democratic party, that's who.

[MADem]

34. Realistically, what GOOD WOULD THAT DO???

You cannot count votes that are NOT RECORDED, you cannot count votes that are CHANGED, you cannot count votes when there is NO PAPER TRAIL.

Bev Harris warned us. She was right. We obviously did not bitch loudly enough. We did not BOMB the MEDIA with letters, phone calls or emails, and FORCE THEM to cover this story.

All a fight would have done is painted us as whiners, just like the GOP. We need to get proof, show proof, and change the system. Even in retrospect, and perhaps because of it, our case will be strengthened.

Are all the people here who now 'hate' the Democrats because they could not compete against a bunch of CHEATERS now leaving the party? Talk about fair weather insurgents!!! If you think you'll have better luck with a new party and the same voting machines, I have a bridge for sale....

I say tell Terry McAuliffe thank you, and goodbye. Put Howard Dean in charge of the Party. Go after BBV with a vengeance, if not in the halls of power, in the courts of public opinion. HOLD THE MEDIA ACCOUNTABLE. We may have lost an election, but we are half the goddamn spenders and consumers in this nation. WE ARE AN ECONOMIC AS WELL AS A POLITICAL BLOC. We have to organize, we have to boycott, we have to threaten to withhold our economic goodwill, we have to write, call, email, COMPLAIN.

If we squeak loud enough, we'll get the grease.

[sampsonblk]

21. Yes, "It's time to burn the house down and build a new one"

Well said. Damn right.

[SeanQ]

24. I'm willing to see this opened for discusion

but personally I'd rather see the party vigorusly, nay argessively, reorganized. If in the next few months all the dems give us is more of the same, then I'd agree to throwing them out and starting over.

So, how do we do it?

I've been considering installing some bloging software for myself. I have some ideas about what a sucesful party would need to do to win. But how do you recruit? To get rolling it would need massive grassroots support, and at least some experienced political operatives. And some good think tanks.

And a catchy name! :) Patriot Party? New America? Milenium? Labor? ;)

[CityDem]

25. My observations

First, it is extremely difficult to beat an incumbent president. The fact that Kerry made this so close is miracle. Secondly, while Bush is a lousy president, he is a good politician. And finally, Kerry was a terrible candidate. He had a few accomplishments, was all over the board regarding Iraq early in the campaign and was viewed as a northeast liberal. Bush should have won this race in a landslide and he barely won -- a good candidate would be making a victory speech today.

[Nordic]

32. Wrong. Bush should be in JAIL right now.

Bush never should have been ALLOWED to run for president.

The man is a criminal, worse than Osama Bin Laden.

I'm not joking here.

Compare the body counts.

Compare the countries attacked.

Compare the money wasted.

Compare the hatred each man has given birth to.

Who's the bigger criminal?

And the Democratic party couldn't beat this guy?

You're making excuses.

[Egnever]

26. Sorry Kerry was crap

I didn't want him from the get go he was my last choice and I think today you can clearly see why. The guy IS a flip flopper has always been one and was doomed from the beginning in a race a retard could have won, he refused to go after the jugular with so much crap on the table he figured the issue to go after was Chaney's gay daughter.

Sorry Kerry is crap has always been crap and the fact that he even got 48% just goes to show how truly spectacularly bad bush is.

I swallowed my bile and I pulled the lever with a glimmer of hope that enough people were that pissed off that they would look past the weakness of Kerry just to remove bush. Sadly he was even attractive enough as a candidate to get people that are pissed at bush to vote for him.

Its a Sad Sad thing. We lost the election when we lost Dean. Without him there was no fight, Kerry for all the bullshit spouted here about how he has all the dirt on bush and that he would take it to him, had his best moment of the campaign in the debates when put up against a guy that can hardly speak.

The problem I think is Kerry has been in the senate too long he doesn't feel the issues anymore just spouts the issues that are supposed to be his and has no real conviction and it shows. The American people clearly saw it.

I blame Kerry but mostly I blame the DNC for shoving this flawed candidate down our throat from the beginning. My only hope is that this spells the deathblow of the DNC and their ilk and brings about a real reform of the Dem party. If not from now on I join the legions of Nader voters. No longer will I allow them to foist a crap candidate on me and take my vote for granted. It cant get any worse than bush from here on out. I no longer stand to lose anything.

[Nordic]

33. well you're actually not disagreeing with me

If you think we got Kerry because of the Democratic party, and you hate Kerry, well then you support my point.

The Democratic party, it could be argued, couldn't put forth a candidate that could beat the Worst President Ever.

[Egnever]

40. oh there were candidates out there that could have beat him

Dean/clark would have wiped the floor with him. But sadly the dems once again decided to try to play it safe.

Hopefully this will make an impression but sadly I doubt it allready i see excuse posts on how it was so hard to win .... blah blah well i dont fucking buy it Bush was a walking wound waiting for the scab to be ripped off and the dem platform was play nice.... dont say a bad thing about the president. We deserve this loss hopefully it makes a difference and next time we take the guys with balls instead of hate to say it the pussy apeasers.

[dolo amber]

44. Amen, 150% agree with you

I have never been prouder of myself, for the exact reasons you just stated, than I was yesterday when I stuck by my principles and DID NOT VOTE for Kerry. I thought very long and introspectively about that decision, pretty much since Iowa. I knew then we were well and truly fucked. I'm franky a bit astonished at the number of clearly intelligent people here who are just FLOORED that Kerry lost. He was a weak candidate from go. More typical Dem "let's all play nice" when no one in my lifetime anyway was handed on a silver platter daily the ammo to take these evil fuckers down. But that wouldn't be *nice*. We don't want to be *mean*.

I'll tell you right now, as much as I detest the Right with all that is in me I do have to respect their conviction. At least when some rat fucking Repub comes out with some evil plan, you'd better bet the farm that's exactly what they're gonna do. Face it folks, politics is a game, and until we learn to play it on their terms, they're gonna continue to steamroll us.

And in reference to one of your later posts...yes. Dean/Clark would've been standing on their necks from day one. But y'know, that hardly matters cos Dean like...showed emotion or something equally fatal. :eyes:

[TexasSissy]

27. I agree.

[ComerPerro]

28. Lies are a powerful thing, aren't they

Republicans lie. They lie constantly. They lie shamelessly. They will look you right in the eye and lie their asses off, and they will do so completely without remorse.

For years now, Republicans have been telling the most sensational, the most comforting, and the most easily belived lies.

Sure, vote Bush. He will keep spending like a rich kid with Dad's credit card, but we won't have to raise taxes. And it won't affect the deficit. It will just all be magically taken care of. In fact, if we take all of the social security money and give it to the richest Americans, everything will be ok.

And, its ok that Bush declares wars before his current wars are finished. Its alright that our troops are spread too thin already, we have no exit plan for Iraq, and we will probably go to Iran before its all over. So what if we have a troop shortage and Republicans are too fucking cowardly to enlist. Bush will protect America by declaring global war, and we will have an all-volunteer army!

And, above all, please remember that Bush is a good, decent Christian man of morality, integrity, experience, and wisdom. Nevermind the fact that he executes the retarded, had a cocaine problem, failed to show up for military service during a time of war, was an alcoholic until he was 45, has failed in every business attempt he has ever tried, is guilty of defrauding investors and insider trading, and while working for his father's campaign described himself as "just a media creation". Just repeat: Bush is a man of integrity.

[leftofthedial]

29. this is true

I have been a lifelong rabid Democrat. I will no longer support the Democratic Party as currently constituted. They are even more incompetent than the most incompetent GOP buffoons ever to mislead this country. They don't deserve my support.

Kerry's concession speech is the nail in their coffin in my book.

It is time for things to get deadly nasty serious.

[Skwmom]

35. Did not know how to support their candidate? How about giving

us a couple of candidates that are more than a couple of say anything and sell out anyone to get elected smucks.

Try running candidates that are worth a damn.

[JHBowden]

41. You won't burn anything in Illinois.

There is no way I'm turning my back on Barack Obama, Dick Durbin, Rod Blagojevich, etc.

You guys in other states need to get mobilized and quit voting for Nadir and letting GOPers outhustle you.

[choicevoice]

43. no quick fix

People thought I was crazy when I started telling them back in the early 90's that the Zealots had changed their game plan and were going to start infiltrating the government from the bottom up. Their first tactic against womens clinics were to destroy property, block entrance, etc then escalated all the way to bombing clinics and killing doctors. Seeing that this wasn't getting them where they wanted to be to control they changed their tactic. After 3 years of defending clinics from these idiots you get to know them pretty well. You first have to assume that logic and reason have no place in their cause.

They started local with school boards and city government. They have a built in voting base and financial assistance through their churches filled with like minded zealots and a networking system that covers the entire country.

To win against them we need to look at their game book and start planning now.