Facing questions, Clark backs Army school

[maddezmom]

Facing questions, Clark backs Army school
By Joanna Weiss, Globe Staff, 1/17/2004

CONCORD, N.H. -- Retired General Wesley K. Clark sometimes downplays his Army background, and criticizes the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays. But there is one military institution he vigorously defends: the controversial academy once known as the US Army School of the Americas.

Opposition to the school, which trains military officers from Latin American countries, has long been a cause celebre among some Democrats and liberal activists, who say the academy has trained some of the most notorious criminals of the region and teaches skills that Latin American armies sometimes use against their own citizenry. Supporters of the school point to reforms from the 1990s, and say its courses teach foreign soldiers about democracy and human rights.

But many critics have not wavered in their opposition, and voters on the campaign trail -- in New Hampshire and elsewhere -- have been questioning Clark about his support.

Clark never headed the school but had dealings with it when he led the US Southern Command from 1996 to 1997. He delivered a graduation speech there in 1996 and has praised the school before Congress. George Bruno, the cochairman of Clark's New Hampshire campaign and a former ambassador to Belize, was a paid adviser to the school when it reopened with a new charter in 2001.

~snip~

more:http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/clark/articles/2004/01/17/facing_questions_clark_backs_army_school/
_________________________________

Thought I'd post, since I'm sure it'll come up again today.

[LTR]

1. I think this answers the question

As I was wondering the same thing:

At a retirement home in Concord this month, one woman told Clark that the school's graduates have been accused of murder. Clark responded that when white-collar criminals are arrested for fraud, nobody faults their alma mater.

"There's been a lot of rotten people who've gone to a lot of rotten schools in the history of the world," Clark said. "And a lot of them went to this school. But a lot of them have gone to Harvard Business School and a lot of other places."

(snip)

"He's on the board. He'll be happy to take you down there," Clark told the woman who questioned him in Concord. "If you find anything in that curriculum material or anything that's taught there that looks in any way remotely connected with human rights abuse or torture, you let me know, and I promise you, we'll close the School of the Americas when I'm president," he said.

But if "you find nothing wrong you see these officers and noncommissioned officers in there learning about human rights, I'd like you to change your position."


Now, this does make sense to me. Perhaps the SOA needs retooling. And Clark seems open to that. He also is more familiar with the inner workings of SOA than any of us.

I find no fault in his stand here. At least he told his side of it, and gave a good reason for it.

[wyldwolf]

2. And if I might add...

The school was founded in 1947 and was thus backed by Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, and Clinton. If it is a bad thing, then they also are to blame.

The school has had over 60,000 graduates - how many can you name that have committed terrible acts? Meaning probably less than 1/10 of a percent have gone on to committ them.

Latin America has a history bloody military acts - dating back to the native Americans there and the Spanish conquerers. If this school does indeed teach it ( and there is plenty of doubt that it does) then they're not teaching them anything new.

Every latin American country except CUBA has democratically elected leaders. Is THAT what they're being taught at this school?

[MoonRiver]

21. I am learning much more about 'SOA'.

The impression I've always had was that it was 100% brutal rightwing torture tactics training camp. Now that Wes Clark, someone I admire and trust, has explained the big picture better, it seems this perception was a gross exaggeration. Clark is a man of principle, and he'd never back an institution that was such a place.

[corporatewhore]

46. Oh yeah the Quakers always grossly exaggerate little things

like torture

[Turkw]

125. And the proof that the current course work teaches this is where?

the exaggeration seems to be that it is the school, in its current reformed state, that is the cause of human rights violations, and not some other factor(s) Costa Rica's graduates of the SOA do not engage in systematic abuses, other countries' do. This suggests some different cause other than SOA.

[Tinoire]

63. Let me add a few things to that bit about "Democracies"

Hugo Chavez- Democratically elected right? I mean we all know that story... Democratically-elected populist leader of America's number 1 oil-supplying country that just won't play ball with us and hand over the oil for free at the expense of the people. Additionally he is leading his country in a dangerous Leftist direction where people won't kow-tow to their imperialist neighbor up North :

In Venezuela, charges were dismissed * against the four military officers, two of them SOA grads, who led the failed coup against President Hugo Chavez in April. After months of consultations with U.S. officials, including Otto Reich, who sits on the SOA board of visitors, the coup leaders replaced President Chavez with businessman Pedro Carmona, claiming that Chavez had resigned. Within 48 hours the coup was reversed by military forces loyal to Chavez and overwhelming street demonstrations. Lawmakers have accused the high court justices who dismissed the coup charges of following orders from the pro-business opposition.

http://www.judithmarty.com/id25.html

* if you watch the film "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" you will see that Chavez had said that he would not prosecute those who led the coup against him if they behaved in the future.

Peruvian death squad leader Vladimiro Montesinos was sentenced to nine years in prison for abuse of power and crimes against humanity. An SOA-grad, Montesinos was known as the corrupt former President Fujimori’s "most trusted counselor."

Two Salvadoran generals were fined $54.6 million by a U.S. federal jury in Florida for brutal torture of three Salvadoran plaintiffs during the 1980s. Former Minister of Defense and Public Security Jose Guillermo Garcia received counter-insurgency training at the SOA in 1985. As defense minister he refused to investigate the El Mozote massacre and the murder of four U.S. churchwomen. The second defendant in the trial, Carlos Eugenio Vides Casanova, had been a guest speaker at the SOA in 1985. He was cited by the United Nations Truth Commission Report for ordering the murder of the U.S. churchwomen.

<snip>

Nicaragua recently sent 11 soldiers to be trained at the School of the Americas, with plans to double the number in 2003. Under Somoza’s brutal dictatorship, 4,700 members of the National Guard were trained there. Until this year, no Nicaraguan had been sent to the SOA since Somoza was deposed. In August, a delegation of North Americans visited General Javier Carrion on a mission to persuade him to stop sending military officers to the SOA.

http://www.judithmarty.com/id25.html


Haiti too was classified as a "Democracy" by the same people who propped up Duvalier and ran his officers through the School of the Americas.

[Turkw]

129. What about Costa Rica?

Why no systematic or widespread human rights violations from their SOA graduates?

[Hoppin_Mad]

132. Costa Rica does not have the inequities the other CA countries have

Which lead to the civil wars the other countries suffered.

[Bolo Boffin]

136. Exactly.

SOA graduation is not the corrupting influence you claim it to be. The push for human rights abuses is not a function of the SOA, it's a function of local culture. I couldn't have said it any better.

Thanks for conceding the point.

[Hoppin_Mad]

140. LOL - there was no significant armed conflict in CR

Even the SOA didn't endorse that its torturing and murdering graduates terrorize civilians who weren't in 'opposition' to the Government - and there was no significant oppposition in CR because it was not a militay dictatorship.

[stickdog]

3. Is Clark actually skilled enough to put a kinder, gentler face on the SOA?

If so, am I the only one who's scared?

[windansea]

10. were you scared or outraged when SOA

existed in the previously listed DEMOCRATIC administrations?

trying to paint Clark as wholey responsible for SOA means you must also condemn the last 5 or 6 Democratic presidents...you do realize where the buck stops in a civilian controlled military????

[xultar]

12. Are you scared that Dean has the same SOA stance as Clark? n/t

[tinanator]

25. coincidence theory

hey, isnt it great to have two "choices"?

[Tinoire]

45. NOT at all the same stance!

Clark is vehemently defending it, he set the tone we see his supporters following here. Dean has clearly stated that he will support an investigation of the School and that if they are indeed still doing what the activists and Latin American countries accuse them of doing that he will shut it down. Dean- waffling a little but damn he is still at least saying that he will look at it.

Question:
The US has trained and or supplied many of our current enemies – for example, Osama, Saddam .... and we continue to have a program of training terrorists at the School for the Americas. Will you close the SOA?

Answer(paraphrase): I will have to consult with the CIA and find out exactly what is going on there. If it is as we have all heard, a place where we train terrorists to overthrow elected governments in other countries, then yes, absolutely I will close it.
http://www.birddogger.org/news.php?id=67

===================

Kucinich, the ranking Democrat on the Government Oversight Subcommittee that specifically has jurisdiction over the Department of Defense and the Central Intelligence Agency, and who knows exactly what is going on, wants to shut it down immediately.

Kucinich: I Will Close School of Americas
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
November 21, 2003


Over the next three days, thousands are expected to protest the School of the Americas in Fort Benning, Ga. (The school has been renamed Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation.)

Presidential Candidate Dennis Kucinich today released the following statement:

"I stand against terror and violence and in solidarity with the victims of the School of the Americas graduates. I support nonviolent demonstration against the SOA. The United States' ability to persuade other nations to investigate terrorism will be strengthened by the closing of a US school that has trained over 60,000 Latin American soldiers to wage war against their own people, against union organizers, religious workers, teachers, and student leaders. As president I will close the School of the Americas."

Rev. Roy Bourgeois, MM, Founder of SOA WATCH and Dennis Kucinich endorser, said:

"Today our world is filled with violence and people are looking for hope. I am supporting Dennis Kucinich for President because he is the person who can bring more peace and justice in our country and in our world. These are challenging times and Dennis Kucinich has the wisdom, integrity, vision and courage to give us the hope our country is seeking today."

http://www.kucinich.us/pressreleases/pr_112103c.php

============================

Clark? Well, here's Clark:

"Kirk S." of Concord, NH asked Gen. Clark at Concord High School on January 8 about his continued support of the School of the Americas (SOA)

Kirk asked, "What can we do to reform the school?"

Clark responded, "It's not true that the school is connected to human rights abuses. Those things happened 25 years ago and nothing like that has happened since. You're uninformed."

http://www.birddogger.org/news.php?id=151

Irene" of Concord, NH asked Gen. Clark on January 8 at the Havenwood Retirement Community about his continued support of the School of the Americas (SOA).

(Note: Clark was in charge of the Southern Command, 96-97, which oversees the SOA.)

Irene asked, "You've stated repeatedly that you support the School of the Americas. In November of last year you were asked by a NH citizen about the many documented Human Rights abuses committed by SOA graduates. At the time you replied, "Imagine the things that would have happened if these soldiers hadn't been taught our principles of Democracy" and that you thought the school was "a good thing" and you "wouldn't kill it." Can you explain this position in light of the fact that many of the teaching materials used at the SOA involved methods of torture?"

Clark challenged the elderly woman (Irene) who asked the question by asking, "Have you seen these teaching materials?"

Irene responded that that no, she hadn't, but knew others who had.

Clark assured her that they didn't exist.

He also stated, "We're teaching police procedures and human rights . . . we don't teach torture . . . never taught torture."
http://www.birddogger.org/news.php?id=150

Keith Dodge of Plymouth, NH writes: --

General Clark was at Plymouth State University yesterday, 11/18 and was giving a speech to our community in Heritage Commons. I didn't get called on during the Q&A, though I did get his attention afterward when he was shaking hands. I asked him what the thought about the upcoming protests at the SOA and where he stood on the school's operation.

He said that he had once taught there and that he supported the school. When I aksed about the many documented Human Rights abuses commited by SOA graduates, his reply was, " Imagine the things that would have happened if these soldiers hadn't been taught our principles of Democracy." I then asked him if he would support the schools closing and he said "I think the school's a good thing, and no I wouldn't kill it."

http://www.birddogger.org/news.php?id=117

[Bolo Boffin]

47. Clark and Dean have both promised to close the school

...if it's teaching what activists claim it's teaching.

It's the same position - Dean's pandering to the activists since he has no direct knowledge of the school, but Clark knows what the school teaches and can state his support for it openly.

Kucinich has the different position: he will close the school outright. That's a different position.

[Tinoire]

54. No there is a difference

Dean is waffling and probably doesn't know much about the school. Saying he will definitely look into it and that if it's what "we've all heard it is" will close it.

Clark is denying that it's "what we've all heard it is". Clark is spinning it to be some sort of a gentle school that teaches human rights and spreads democracy.

There is a HUGE difference.

I am not a Dean supporter. I have several problems with Dean but he is, at least, not insulting our intelligence. Clark is by trying to spin it into something decent.

There's nothing decent about that school.

[Bolo Boffin]

65. Little water to help that gnat go down?

Regardless of Clark's view, he's promised to close the school if anyone can show that the school is teaching human rights abuse, just like Dean. Dean has to investigate the issue, Clark does not.

The burden of proof for Clark is on the demonstrators. The burden of proof from Dean is an investigation after he becomes President. That's the only difference in the positions. It's not huge at all. Both would close the school. One has done his homework.

You have nothing but conjecture, faulty logic, and emotional appeals about the indecency of that school. You have no actual evidence.

[Tinoire]

98. Thanks very much. I think I know quite enough about the SOA

I know quite enough, thank you, about SOA from two of its "honor grads" Colonel Frank Romain and his SOA diploma who brutally gunned down people in the street where I once lived and his good other Ton-Ton Macoute friends.

You keep peddling Clark as a progressive in the progressive community- it's not going to get you very far. We've had years to look into this stuff.

I trained with, served with some of the killers who attended that school. The yarn being peddled in this thread by defensive Clark supporters is despicable on a progressive web-site.

There is no way I can shout ABB with some of the beliefs we are expected to accommodate here ever since Clark's opportunistic switch to the Democratic Party.

[Bolo Boffin]

109. Evidently you don't

It is a logical fallacy to assume that the SOA is the only reason why Romain and his accomplise commited that atrocity.

You can list atrocity after atrocity, but you will still be no close to prove that the school taught these people to do this. With your intimate accquaintance with some of these terrible people, you must have more evidence than ancedotes. Where is your incontrovertible evidence that the school trained these people to do the things they did? I've asked over and over again, and waited until now and continue to wait for this evidence. You evidently don't have it. No one you speak of has it. You have nothing but circumstantal post hoc appeals to emotion, thus far.

I await the evidence to the contrary, as does Wesley Clark. If you can provide this evidence, Clark has promised to close the school.

Produce it.

[NV1962]

115. More deafening silence

Below, I posted a comparison with the present-day presence of German troops in Afghanistan, and WWII.

Another case is the 19th century atrocities committed by US Army against Native Americans.

I'm mystified why no-one of the current Democratic candidates advocates for driving the Germans out of Afghanistan and abolishing the US Army afterwards.

Do they all support genocide?

[Hoppin_Mad]

133. They distributed manuals which included assassination and torture

For those on the right to argue ' they didn't know that material was in them' is one of the most patently absurd arguments I've ever read.

1) Ignorance of the law is no excuse to break it. This is undeniable.

2) The students are instructed mostly in Spanish - most of them don't speak English.

To try and plead ignorance that this material was being disseminated without the knowledge of the SOA because it was in Spanish is an insulting argument - as are most of the arguments defending this 'School of assassination and Torture'

[Hoppin_Mad]

144. The deafening silence of the SOA supporters speaks volumes -nt-

[maddezmom]

52. where can I find Howard Dean's stance on SOA?

edited to say on his website?

[Tinoire]

56. I don't believe Dean really has one

It is one of Dean's short-comings. Dean is learning a lot as he goes, and in all fairness to the people who are his grass-roots supporters, he listens to them. He did just that over his Middle East Policy (with which I am still not satisfied) but he listened to them, talked, got both points of view and amended it to reflect what the people who had chosen him to represent them wanted.

Dean reflects his movement and the people in his movement are mostly well-intentioned, progressive and good . My problem with Dean is that I am not yet convinced that he is worthy of his movement and the fine people who support him but I could be wrong. I am still trying to remain open, I just don't trust Dean that much because I expect a candidate's positions to be clearly defined before the issues come up so that we can know that politician isn't pandering.

Wesley Clark, imo, doesn't represent his supporters. He expects his supporters to represent him. The General issues marching orders and talking points and they get parrotted all over the web. This is a prime example- as was the one earlier this week where he, personally, specifically, asked his supporters to go to come here, to Democratic Underground and also to Free Republic to fight x, y, and z issues that are becoming a lode-stone around his neck.

Dean will probably have a position soon and I am certain it will be very similar to the one the Dean supporters are expressing here.

Edwards, true DLC golden-boy that he is, pretends not to even have heard of it. I find that stunning and if it is true, he is definitely not the kind of person I will vote for. Not in this day and age.

Kucinich? Damn, he's been clear from the start because he was drafted specifically because of his stance on this, the war, and other issues near and dear to our hearts.

Much more than you asked for. Sorry. The short answer is that I have looked and still not found anything for Howard Dean except for that vague answer that he would have the CIA look into it and close it if... My problem with that is "the CIA"? Howard? The CIA? He needs to pump that up to "Amnesty International" "an Independent Panel" "Human Rights Watch" or something with a little more credibility than the CIA. I am sure his supporters will set him straight.

[maddezmom]

59. thanks for the response

Because I did look at Dean's and Edward's websites, didn't find a thing. Googled and found the one you cited, but it was paraphrased.

[Tinoire]

61. Thanks for your civil response

and if it means anything, I am sorry to be so anti-Clark because I sense a lot of his supporters are very good people.

[NV1962]

79. For what it's worth

Yes, Tinoire, that is an important distinction, which I believe is necessary for a healthy, clean debate - lest we end up in a situation similar to how Paul O'Neill portrayed Bush's cabinet meetings: a blind man in a room of deaf people.

So, yes, it means something to me that you're willing to separate your views on Wes Clark from your opinion of (part of) the audience here on DU.

From that point onward, we can still disagree but at least respect each other's opinion, and more important than that, engage each other productively, building on the integrity and sincerity of our conviction.

Thank you for that.

[funky_bug]

75. Gore, Harkin and Bradley didn't close it either

Let's keep that in mind. When they were in office, none of them made the steps to close the school. Before you cast the first stone...

[Hoppin_Mad]

102. Harkin voted to close it =nt-

[Eloriel]

36. You damn well DO fault their alma mater if

said alma mater was responsible for teaching them the philosophy that makes that kind of behavior acceptable.

Case in point: Harvard Business School.

[Bolo Boffin]

49. You do have proof?

You do have proof that the SOA taught these people their murderous philosophy, don't you? You can definitely rule out the dominant militaristic culture in Latin America ever since the Spanish invaded? Heck, from the looks of things, the Aztecs and Incans weren't all sweetness and light.

And the lists of the dead isn't proof. Nobody's questioning that atrocities were committed by some (a small minority) of SOA graduates. The issue at hand is: Did the SOA teach them to commit atrocities? Six Spanish-language manuals that were distributed in some classes over a four year period isn't the proof you think it is, either. I need systematic evidence over a period of decades that the SOA actually taught the things it's being accused of teaching.

Plus I'll need some rationale for why so many SOA graduates didn't seem to learn atrocities and human rights abuse. Costa Rica has one of the largest populations of SOA graduates imaginable, and guess what? No systemic human rights abuse! What the hey? Were the Costa Ricans all not paying attention?

This must be the fourth SOA thread started here, and I'm still waiting on that proof.

[Eloriel]

70. Proof

I don't exactly happen to have one in my hands at the moment, but there are torture manuals which were produced by SOA.

Try google.

[Bolo Boffin]

71. Already seen it, the case on those is overstated

I even described them in the post you responded to, and you didn't recognize them, because you're evidently unfamiliar with the actual facts in the case!

You're the one advancing the hypothesis, it's your job to do the legwork.

[Eloriel]

77. Overstated?

Hardly.

Six Spanish-language manuals that were distributed in some classes over a four year period isn't the proof you think it is, either. I need systematic evidence over a period of decades that the SOA actually taught the things it's being accused of teaching.

Are you sure you don't also want names and addresses, social security numbers and current rank?

Actually, I feel fairly confident that what you want is to insist on a standard of proof that's too high to match. Let's get the SOA to open up all their records, shall we? It's pretty hard to do the legwork from outside a closed system.

Thousands upon thousands of people in the US -- and no doubt from elsewhere too -- have been protesting the school for years. To my knowledge, the SOA has never adequately addressed the charges. That speaks volumes to me.

If what we do know about SoA not "enough" for you, as a Clark supporter, I really have no confidence in my poor little ability to change your mind.

[Bolo Boffin]

78. Well, thousands and thousands of people can't be wrong, can they?

The school doesn't teach human rights abuses. Those six manuals were an mistake, one corrected when the content of the manuals became known to higher command. The school is run with oversight - when the school changed names, the informal "board of visitors" was codified into the school's oversight.

The school isn't what you and thousands of others think it is. You're uninformed.

[Hoppin_Mad]

104. WHY did Far-Right Joe Scarborough try and close the school then ?

AFTER it was 'reformed'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=125918&mesg_id=127986&page=

[Bolo Boffin]

111. Florida Republican? Pandering to the Latino vote.

Next.

[Hoppin_Mad]

130. HA ! Most Florida Latinos are Cubans - who are right wing

and would support support the SOA.

[Tinoire]

92. I posted links to a few. The offensive mounted by Clark supporters

never fails to amaze me.

Eloriel, Dean supporters were a dream when we had our "words" way back when because you actually took the time to read the stuff, digest it and comment intelligently about how it

a. fit your world view and was acceptable

or

b. wasn't the best but it was good enough for you to compromise on

or

c. was displeasing enough to make you honestly re-evaluate

(listed in order of popularity) but damn- I do not remember all this spinning! Pretty soon the entire country will be out of flax!

Back then, we were able to make progress! We were able to understand each other knowing that we believed in the same things and that we could fine some sort of a political compromise for the elections. This however is TOO much! School of the Americas being defended and painted PINK here! At DU! I am going to go to Free Republic for a break... see what they think of SOA. I have a feeling they probably think it spreads Democracy.

[Turkw]

106. I did read the material, I appreciate your supplying them, please

read my response. The biggest problem with the information is that it is lacking context. How do you explain why Costa Rican graduates deviate from the graduates from other countries?

[IndianaGreen]

107. Costa Rica is a democracy

and the military is under civilian authority.

[Turkw]

116. So it may be culture of the military and the relationship of the military

and the civilian government that is determining factor as to how likely a graduate is to violate human rights. What effects the school's current incarnation has, and how powerful they are, pro or con, still has to be proved.

[Hoppin_Mad]

143. True - That's why HR 1258 wants to briefly close and study it

If it should be re-opened it would be.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. Clark knows a lot more about SOA than I do...

and I am aware that part of the curriculum is studies in human rights and democracy.

I am really up in the air about the whole thing, though. The school teaches the most advanced techniques in counterinsurgency and maintaining order. It teaches military forces how to deal with revolutions, and that is not a pretty field.

Granted, it has shown many ruthless military leaders how to be more efficient at their bloody goals, but has it also taught many others that torture and state terror is not the best way to build a country?

It's not only the school, but US diplomacy and leadership that affects what goes on down there. Training the El Salvador death squads and giving them the green light was not solely the province of this school.

[tinanator]

5. This is great!

I love the fact that Clark is such a strong candidate. So much that he feels he can stand strongly for strength, it is a good thing he doesnt need the support of the happily upset good people who will not happily support good killing and proper torture techniques by good military men trained by our good military men in good techniques of oppression and death. It is good that he can campaign for these good people who do things that are supported by good Democrats and good Republicans throughout our good history. If he does not ever gain the support of all good Americans because of these good stands in favor of good traditional Democratic supported schooling of good Central American dictators, it is good also. Hope this happy post complies with the good rules of our good rule makers.

[Turkw]

9. Has anyone found ANY information that links the Current SOA schooling

has a causal effect in regards to torture and rape?

I am not asking for the documented information about pre-reform torture manuals- this horrible information has been stricken from the curriculum, as it never should have been there in the first place. I want want information on Clinton era SOA taught material. The ONLY information I have seen dealing with this time period, on a anti-SOA website at that, stated that during Clinton's administration absolutely NONE of the abusive material was taught.

Are we fighting the ghosts of the past? If so, do you have any informations that proves the the human rights and democracy information taught in the school NOW has absolutely NO positive effect?

I ask these questions because if human rights and democratic ideal are part of the curriculum now, and torture and rape are not taught, would it not do more harm to end this kind of teaching?

I know that many horrible people and events can be linked to the SOA from when the abusive material was taught, and there may be some bad people who came through after. But I have not seen any proof that what is taught there now in any way warrants closing the school.

There were and are a lot of horrible people, both government and anti-government, that torture, rape, mutilate, kidnap, and kill with out any links to SOA, in central and South America. If we close a place that NOW attempts to help stop this because of the past, what are we helping?

Please inform me, I would like to know!

[tinanator]

22. heck no!

In fact, no one to date has even found a direct link between US troops invading Iraq under false pretense and the deaths of uncountless thousands. Excellent point!

[Tinoire]

60. I wish I had time today but start here

And you might want to Google Berrigan + School of the Americas

===

Declassified Army and CIA Manuals Used in Latin America:
An Analysis of Their Content
by Lisa Haugaard, Latin America Working Group at: http://www.totse.com/en/politics/central_intelligence_agency/162408.html
===

Monitoring the Military

Since 1998, the Latin America Working Group and the Center for International Policy have produced the comprehensive Just the Facts guide based completely on official U.S. government information. It is available primarily as a web site, updated regularly: www.ciponline.org/facts

This source is a useful tool for scholars, activists and citizens worldwide seeking greater knowledge of the United States’ security activities in the Western Hemisphere. This project has also helped congressional committees conduct oversight of US military activities and has helped to promote transparency and civilian control over military programs. Thanks to the Ford Foundation, the Open Society Institute and the Compton Foundation for their support for this project.

====

Amnesty International concluded in 2002 that there will still huge problems with the SOA, most notably that the screening process of attendees needed to be improved and that there is limited, at best, follow-up assessment of what SOA graduates are doing. An example of where this is most desperately needed is in Colombia. More than 50% of the current graduates of the SOA are from there and yet that country has the worst human rights record in the entire hemisphere. The Amnesty International analysis can be read here: http://www.amnestyusa.org/arms_trade/ustraining/


Laws governing US training of foreign forces, including an amendment to the Foreign Operations and Defense Appropriations Acts, known as the Leahy Law can be found here: http://web.amnesty.org/pages/ttt4-article_8-eng

You can also get a lot more at:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/stoptorture/msp.rtf


SOA Manuals Index at
http://www.soaw.org/new/article.php?id=98

Ledger-Enquirer-Observer
School of Americas Forum Atrocities
http://www.geocities.com/~virtualtruth/soa.htm

[Turkw]

103. There is some good information here, but

I do have several problems with it.

1- the manuals, these are the old ones, I want to see where in the current courses torture is being taught. The current courses listed seem very reasonable, thought I do not rule out a need for expansion of information on human rights and democracy.

2 the watch list does not give when the people listed graduated.

3- the watch on graduates is very good, however it is in a vacuum, I need some more information to make an informed decision.
a.What is the percentage of graduates that attend the reformed school\current curriculum that go on to do human rights abuses.
b. What is the percentage of military officers from the different South American Countries that go to the SOA.
c. What is the percentage of military officers from the different South American Countries that do not attend the school who are involved with human rights abuses.

Why this information is critical, to prove your case you have to show either
a that there is a direct increase of officers that engage in human rights violations who are graduates of the SOA per country, or as a general trend over all.
or
b that abusive material is currently being taught
or at the very least
c the SOA has no positive effect at all

Until then, with the history of human rights violations in South America as a whole, by pro- and anti- government forces, I have to conclude that the cultural environment is the causal factor. The SOA could be an useful tool in combating it.

I will say, and have in other posts, that I am not opposed to further reform and over site of the SOA in what ever incarnation it exists. This is neither unreasonable nor unattainable and I do not believe that Clark would be opposed to this. I think that better vetting of guest instructors and students in highly appropriate.

[tinanator]

112. excellent point! Enron's offenses are all in the past as well

better forward these points to Ken Lay's office.

[Turkw]

119. A corporation is a legal "person" and thus has legal responsibilities, as

well as the individuals employed by the corporation. Enron and Ken Lay and friends should be prosecuted. This is apples and oranges, the SOA is not a corporation or a legal person.

I did say in another post on this thread that individuals responsible for teaching material that violates the UCMJ ( and torture and assassination do, from what I remember) could, I assume, be charged. I also said that it is worth looking into and that it is a separate issue than closing the school.

I have also never opposed the ideas of further reform and over site.

[tinanator]

138. right, they never killed anyone or tortured and maimed nuns

better prosecute. Oh wait, the big cheese is NEVER going down.
As he feasts on the bones of California. Its interesting that you feel you MUST exonerate the SOA as it stands in order to support your candidate. Thats some mighty thin ice. Good luck!

[Jerseycoa]

19. I love the way

you phrased your objection.

[AntiCoup2K4]

33. I thought it was a very good response, actually.

[Jerseycoa]

40. I was sincere, actually

I did love it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Thanks for the post. It's important.

Up to this point, I have considered Clark someone I could vote for if he gets the nod. I'll have to hear a lot more from him about his reasons for backing the SOA.

[LoneStarDem]

7. Well

He says he supports the school because he believes that it is an important bridge to South and Central America, and because he believes that the reforms that were made worked. He has also stated that if it can be proven that the school is teaching torture and the violation of human rights, he would shut it down as President, which is the same stance on the issue that Dean has taken. Remember, this is a man who, at a graduation ceremony for this very school, spent the majority of his speech focusing on respect for civil liberties and the importance of liberal institutions such as, *gasp!*, trade unions.


My school used to be segregated, now it's not. Things can change, the baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater, and a toxic past should not unnecessarily poison the future.

[jonnyblitz]

8. Thousands still do down to Georgia to protest outside this school

I know of busloads that went just this past November, many of them priests and nuns. Apparently somebody needs to send them the "memo" that this school has been "reformed". I am not convinced of this just because a person who cheerleads for it that is running for president says it has been.

[Turkw]

11. Do they have proof of current abusive material taught, or just fighting

the ghosts of the past? I have asked for current proof several times and nobody has responded.

[Terwilliger]

13. ghosts of the past?

Did anybody pay for those ghosts? Was anybody accountable?

Maybe we should realize that a military general's first and foremost duty is to his command. I don't see how Wesley Clark can be a Democrat. No other career military man with that kind of rank is a Democrat. He shouldn't be the Democrat nominee.

[BootinUp]

17. How did you arrive at the

conclusion that no other Generals are Democrats?

[Terwilliger]

23. Do you know any?

Plus the fact that there's continuing controversy over just what level of "Democrat" Clark is.

[BootinUp]

30. I guess I think its more likely

that Generals tend to keep their political views to themselves, and that there are some that silently support our candidates.

In an interview on MSNBC Hardball recently Norman Schwartzkopf was asked whether he supports a Democratic candidate or Bush, his answer was very neutral, but he certainly didn't rule out voting Democratic, and had some nice things to say about some of the candidates. I think this neutrality is ingrained over the years in the service. After all they have pledged to follow the orders of the President no matter the party affiliation.

[Terwilliger]

91. that's right, they follow orders

so they shouldn't be partisan, and, in that spirit, I don't think Clark is the partisan he should be

[Turkw]

127. They follow the constitution! If not, they should be brought up on

charges!

The idea that years of dedicated service to the United States in the form of military service should bar someone from being a Democrat, or a Democrat president floors me. What a sad, depressing idea.

[windansea]

20. in our system of government

civilian Presidents direct the military

tell me who is responsible for the SOA???

[Terwilliger]

26. People who support it are responsible

People who argue for its continuation in the face of such obvious human rights violations and corruption of core democratic values should be held accountable.

[neverforget]

55. General = Republican. I mean, it makes perfect sense.

White male = Republican too. But I'm a white male with military service AND I'm a Democrat. How can that possibly be?
You're sweeping generalities are a ridiculous notion.

[Terwilliger]

90. well, I wouldn't want to sweep

do you have some notion of the basic ideological makeup of the upper echelons of the military? do you think there are equal numbers of Dems and Reps in that ranking?

[Tinoire]

64. General Claudia Kennedy is a Democrat AND a Progressive

Always has been. Always will be. And this was widely known throughout the Military and throughout the Pentagon even when she was the Deputy Chief of Staff of Intelligence. She is currently working with Kerry's campaign. She passed Go without spending any time lobbying to the CIA or Homeland Security, or drafting plans for the occupation of Iraq, or campaigning for the war at the World Economic Forum with Powell and telling our allies they had best get on board, or sitting on boards such as the NED or the CSIS or Markle, or Acxiom etc... Nope... like a good Democrat, she didn't involve herself with those neo-con organizations. You can rattle on the doors of that General and several others without fearing that you will get buried under an avalance of bones or that PNAC names like Morton Abramowitz will pop up in the oddest places.

I knew several Generals in the Military who were known Democrats and very high up. Wesley Clark was not known as one. All this crap about military people being non-partisan is crap. Just like normal people, we have our political preferences & just like normal people some of us talk, some of us don't. Non-pastisanship can explain not knowing where someone stands but when someone has so much baggage, non-partisanship is an insulting and clumsy way of excusing their associations. It doesn't wash.

[Turkw]

105. I have never seen where Clark, or anyone for that matter, has defended

human rights violations. I am asking for concrete evidence that current courses are leading to human rights violations\teaching torture.

Every military person has a sworn obligation to obey the The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Persons responsible for teaching material that is used for specifically and exclusively human rights violations (torture, assassination), I assume, could be charged for issuing or following an unlawful order, or some type of similar violation.

(c) A general order or regulation is lawful unless it is contrary to
the Constitution, the laws of the United States, or lawful superior
orders or for some other reason is beyond the authority of the
official issuing it. See the discussion of lawfulness in paragraph
14c(2)(a).

This is a separate issue and deserves to be addressed by the military.

A commander's, even a general, responsibility includes following the constitution of the United States, how does this disqualify a person from being our nominee?

[KittyWampus]

16. Just As The Far Right Milks Anti-Abortion Sentiment

The Far Left manipulates Humanitarian Sentiment.

In both cases, people have legitimate concerns that are manipulated by those seeking Power, Influence and Money.

There are certain "Causes" that are guarenteed to get people on both the Left and the Right in a lather without them using too much of their critical facaulties.

And please, I know more about the horrors that went on in Guatemala & Montt than most.

It's also worth noting that Central & South America now have Democracies.

[BootinUp]

18. Very insightful n/t

[tinanator]

24. yeah, those democracies that Carville would overthrow

Somebody has to stop those uppity freedom loving leftist democracy seekers, right?

[Turkw]

117. What?

I love Cariville, I have a few of his books, never have I read, or heard, him support anything so ridiculous. Link please.

[Terwilliger]

27. Like Nicaragua?

Like Panama, where "problematic" union leaders and activists were rounded up after they ousted Noriega?

Tell us, where does Democracy thrive in the places we've left behind or interfered with?

[Jerseycoa]

41. Clark has tried

"So, I would just ask you to do this. I would ask you to suspend your faith in Father Berrigan. I know he's down there. I know he's made a big issue of it. I've tried for years to communicate with him. I can talk to Gabriel Garcia Marquez. But, I can't get to Father Berrigan. And no matter what I've tried to do to get him to take an honest and objective look at the School of the Americas, he doesn't seem to want to do it."

Town Meeting, Manchester, NH (Dec. 19, 2003)

I'm looking for the link to this.

[Tinoire]

51. I posted that

The Berrigan family is friends with mine. What Clark was trying to do was to get Father Berrigan to shut up
I would ask you to suspend your faith in Father Berrigan.

I suggest to Clark that he hasn't been trying that hard because otherwise he'd know that Father Berrigan was buried on December 9, 2002 and still 100% against the SOA because of INTIMATE knowledge of what was taking place there. His entire family still carries on the fight and his daughter Frida is courageously speaking out everywhere she goes.

This is a weak issue for Clark and this is probably why we are now being treated to this type of thread- it must be a new marching order because Clark has been getting angry & flustered at public gatherings when he's asked about this. We're not going to let up. I'll be going to see him in my area and my activist friends and I will be armed with all the information we need and in front of the cameras.

[Jerseycoa]

14. From his website

Statement of General Wesley Clark on the School of the Americas (now known as the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation)

I strongly condemn human rights abuses of any kind. Throughout my career, I have fought to protect the fundamental rights of all people and to promote democratic values that empower people to prevent abuses of power and combat them when they occur.

It is unacceptable that some who passed through the School of the Americas (now known as the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation) committed human rights abuses. Those that did should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law - as should all who commit war crimes or crimes against humanity. In order to prevent such abuses from happening in the future, we must promote a policy of engagement and education with friends and allies in the region.

I strongly support the reforms that have been implemented at WHISC and encourage careful vetting of students. I strongly support oversight measures that ensure that antidemocratic principles are not taught at the school. Thanks to the work of human rights campaigners and others, WHISC is constantly improving the way it teaches the Army's values of respect for human rights, for civil institutions, and for dissent.

Source: Clark 04

[maddezmom]

15. thanks Jerseycoa

Great statement from Clark :)

[Jerseycoa]

28. Thank you, mom

for posting the article. I've been wanting to know more. I know we all have. Clark's explaining himself on this controversial issue, while I don't expect it will win over the most committed objectors, maybe some others can see this is a man of conviction even on the most discomfiting issues. I feel confident that if he says the school has been reformed, he believes it, and once in office he will make goddamn sure of it. What uses the current administration may be making of it, though, does worry me somewhat. So far, I have no basis for that concern from anything Clark has said, but it lingers out of distrust of Bush. Probably such training is still going on somewhere, if not at the school.

I note the following from the Globe article:

"US Representative James P. McGovern, a Democrat of Worcester, introduced a bill last March to shut down the school, cosponsored by 102 representatives, including Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio and Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri -- both candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination this year. Senator John F. Kerry, another candidate, signed on to a Senate bill to shut down the school, introduced in 1998, according to McGovern's staff.

The school has "become a symbol that represents all of the things we don't want people to think of us in Latin America," said McGovern, who has endorsed Kerry in the presidential race. "It's a stain on our human rights record, and it seems to me that at a time when we're trying to lift up our credibility around the world, especially in the area of human rights, it would be a very powerful statement" to close it."

Would closing the school be anything more than a "powerful statement"? If the school were closed, would it mean this training would not be going on somewhere in the covert depths? If the school now is, as Clark claims, teaching human rights and not teaching torture technique, how would closing it change anything for the better?

Have the other candidates, Edwards, Dean, and Sharpton taken stands on the issue? Has Kerry made a direct statement during the current primary campaign? Links, please.

[maddezmom]

29. pretty sure: DK and Kerry opposed to school

Dean holds the same view has Clark, need to take a look and see if changes need to be made. Not sure about the others.

[KittyWampus]

31. Actually, DK and Gep

Not Kerry.

and their opposition was before reformations.

Have yet to see recent, and RELEVANT quotes from any other candidate besides Clark.

[JI7]

32. right about dk and jk, and include

gephardt with them who is also opposed. i read somewhere that edwards was asked about it and said he didn't know about it.

[AntiCoup2K4]

34. Edwards didn't know about the "school"?

Now that would be a little strange considering it's right in his backyard.

[hayu_lol]

35. I dont see thousands of protestors attempting to shut down...

the Harvard Business School for graduating Bush.

Clark has taken an admirable stand on the school. And, he is correct when he stated that out of the 60,000 or so graduates, how many can you name that have gone on to make a mess in South and Central America...most of us would be hard pressed to get beyond Noriega.

[Tinoire]

44. Most of who?

Most of the Leftist, old time DUers who were active posters before the hoopla of the elections and took the time to educate themselves on the issues so that we could make an informed choice this election, can name quite a few of the graduates. Most Progressives and Liberals are intimately aware of the horrors they perpetrated.

Omar Torrijos of Panama
Leopoldo Galtieri and Roberto Viola of Argentina
Juan Velasco Alvarado of Peru
Guillermo Rodriguez of Ecuador
Hugo Banzer Suarez of Bolivia


Here are a few more:

SOA Graduates in the News

--SOA Graduate Army Major César Alonso Maldonado Vidales along with Captain Jorge Ernesto Rojas Galindo were detained, according to Human Rights Watch, "in relation to the December 2000 attack on trade unionist Wilson Borja." Maj. Maldonado, assigned to army intelligence at Bogotá's Thirteenth Brigade, had cell phone records that linked him to one of the assassins. A witness and former soldier also verified his relation to the attack and "named high-ranking officers who he claims approved it," among them, was SOA Graduate, General Jorge Enrique Mora, who is currently the commander of the Colombian Army.

"On April 23, Colombia's Attorney General, Luis Osorio, abruptly fired the human rights prosecutor handling the case. The prosecutor named as a replacement ordered Major Maldonado freed. Captain Rojas is currently charged with conspiracy to commit murder and attempted murder, but the fate of the entire investigation is now in doubt."

--According to Human Rights Watch, SOA Graduate Army Captain Juan Carlos Fernández López and Colonel Víctor Matamoros were indicted "for collaboration with and the formation of illegal paramilitary groups in 1997" and also between May and September of 1999 for "connection with a series of paramilitary massacres in and around La Gabarra, Norte de Santander." More than 145 people were killed by the paramilitaries. "In May 2002, the Human Rights Unit prosecutor in charge of the case was fired, leaving the fate of the case in question." The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights expressed grief over the firing of key prosecutors, saying that it puts into question "the independence and autonomy of prosecutors working on investigations related to human rights violations, particularly when paramilitary groups and state agents are implicated."

2000/2001


COLOMBIA
SOA Graduates Cited for Recent Human Rights Atrocities and Paramilitary Ties

According to the 2000 State Department Report on Human Rights in Colombia, SOA graduates Major David Hernandez Rojas and Captain Diego Fino Rodriguez are being prosecuted in civilian courts for the March 1999 murders of Antiqua peace commissioner Alex Lopera and two others. Both men are members of the Colombian Military’s 4th Brigade, which has been extensively linked to paramilitary groups.

SOA graduate Colonel Jorge Plazas Acevedo is being tried by the Prosecutor General of Colombia for the 1998 kidnapping and murder of Jewish business leader Benjamin Khoudari. Plazas is the former chief of intelligence for the Colombian Military’s 13th Brigade.

The State Department reports that Colonel Jesus Maria Clavijo, a graduate of the SOA, is currently under investigation for collusion with paramilitary forces in 160 social cleansing murders from 1995-1998. In addition to the information provided by the State Department Report, a 2001 Reuters article reports that Clavijo has been accused of ties to a paramilitary death squad responsible for the massacre of at least 100 people in 1996 and 1997. Clavijo is currently in prison awaiting his trial.

Finally, the report states that SOA graduate Commander Mauricio Llorente Chavez was indicted by the Prosecutor General for complicity in a massacre that took place in Tibu, July 1999.

“The Ties that Bind”, a report issued by Human Rights Watch in February 2000, cited at least sevem SOA graduates for involvement with paramilitary groups. SOA graduate Brigadier General Jaime Ernesto Canal Alban, commander of the 3rd Brigade, was involved in helping to establish a paramilitary group known as the “Calima Front”. Canal’s brigade was found to have supplied the front with weapons and intelligence. In 1999, the Calima Front seized and executed community leader Noralba Gaviria Piedrahita. The following month, authorities discovered the mutilated and dismembered bodies of seven men near Tulu, also killed by members of the Calima Front. The front has been found responsible for 2,000 forced disappearances and at least 40 executions since 1999. In addition to his involvement with the Calima Front, Canal was in command of soldiers who entered a home and killed five civilians during the birthday party of a 15-year-old child in 1998.

The report cited General Carlos Ospina Ovalle, graduate of the SOA and former commander of the 4th Brigade, for “extensive evidence of pervasive ties” to paramilitary groups involved in human rights abuses throughout 1999. Ospina was the commander of the 4th Brigade in 1998 when troops massacred at least 11 people and burned down 47 homes in El Aro.

Major Alvaro Cortes Morillo and Major Jesus Maria Clavijo, both SOA grads, were linked to paramilitary groups in 1999 through extensive cell phone and beeper communications as well as regular meetings on military bases.

General Mario Montoya Uribe, an SOA graduate with a history of ties to paramilitary violence, commands the Joint Task Force South, which includes the 24th Brigade. The 24th Brigade is ineligible for U.S. military aid due to its complicity in paramilitary violence. A leading Colombian newspaper identifies General Montoya as “the military official responsible for Plan Colombia”.

A December 2000 AP article brought attention to the death of SOA-trained Lieutenant Carlos Acosta, who was killed for “disobedience” after escaping prison to join a Colombian death squad. According to the article, Acosta had taken a month-long infantry course at the SOA in which he learned to fire M-16 assault rifles and M-60 machine guns, and was trained in battlefield tactics. Acosta was a member of the Colombian military’s 5th brigade, which has one of the worst human rights records as well as ties to paramilitary groups. Acosta was arrested when in 1994 he and his men intercepted a group of federal prosecutors, tied them up, shot them, and dumped their bodies into a river. According to Acosta’s brother, “He used to say that a soldier in Colombia has to fight not only guerrillas, but also the human rights groups and prosecutors”.


GUATEMALA

Gerardi Trial

SOA graduate Byron Lima Estrada is currently on trial for the brutal 1998 assassination of Guatemalan Bishop Juan Gerardi. Gerardi was bludgeoned to death two days after he released the REMHI report, linking the Guatemalan army to most of the atrocities committed during the country’s civil war. Lima Estrada headed the infamous D-2 intelligence Agency that was heavily cited in Gerardi’s report. The night before the trial began, the home of the presiding judge, Iris Yasmin Barrios, was attacked with grenades. The attack occurred despire the presence of police guards stationed at her house. June 2001: Lima Estrada found guilty.

Genocide Cases

The year 2000 brought genocide cases against two former Guatemalan dictators trained at the SOA. In March, Rigoberta Menchu Tum, Nobel Peace Prize winner, filed suit in a Spanish court against SOA graduate General Efrain Rios Montt, who took power through a coup and governed Guatemala at the height of a counter-insurgency campaign that wiped hundreds of Mayan villages off the map, left thousands dead and forced hundreds of thousands into refuge or exile. The case also cites SOA graduates General Angel Anibal Guevara Rodriguez, the Minister of Defense and Colonel German Chupina Barahona, Director of the National Police.

In a parallel case, a group of Mayan survivors is suing former dictator Fernando Romeo Lucas Garcia as well as former Army Chief of Staff Benedicto Lucas Garcia and former Defense Minister Luis Rene Mendoza, all graduates of the SOA. According to a recently declassified CIA document, Benedicto Lucas Garcia was key in strategizing the scorched earth policy that aimed to annihilate the civilian Mayan population. The plaintiffs are suing the former chiefs for ordering the rape, torture and massacre of their families and fellow community members. Their association represents eight communities that lost 800 people to massacres during the Lucas Garcia regime from 1981 to 1982.

Corruption Scandal

In addition, On March 21, 2001, Guatemala’s highest court ordered General Rios Montt and five other lawmakers to resign from their congressional posts in order to face impeachment charges. The six were involved in a corruption scandal in which they are accused of altering a law passed by the legislature in June of 2000, which placed a 20% tax on alcoholic beverages. Mysteriously, the legislation was passed into law as a tax of only 10%. It is expected that Rios Montt will ignore the order to resign his congressional post.


BOLIVIA

Last year the Bolivian government sold the public water system of Cochamba to a private corporation, resulting in skyrocketing water rates for the people of Bolivia. As thousands took to the streets, Bolivian president and former military dictator, SOA graduate Hugo Banzer sent out the armed forces to attack civilians. In April 2000, after four days of anti-privatization protests, Banzer declared a “state of siege”, sending soldiers into the street with live bullets. 17-year-old Victor Hugo Daza was killed by a shot through his face and at least seven others were killed. The number of injuries resulting from military violence totaled over 100.


PERU

SOA honors graduate General Nicolas Hermoza Rios is currently serving time in a Peruvian prison, after pleading guilty to taking $14 million in arms deal gains. Hermoza is also under fire for allegedly taking protection money from Peruvian drug lords, whom the Peruvian military, along with military aid from the U.S., claimed to be fighting. In 1993, a witness who had worked with Demetrio “El Vaticano” Chavez, Peru’s most notorious drug trafficker, claimed that Hermoza had been receiving between $50,000 and $100,000 in protection money per month. The witness stated that “Montesinos is the one who is making the most from ‘El Vaticano’”.


Compiled by School of the Americas Watch, Spring 2001.


I PERSONALLY thank all the supporters of SOA for the following men who littered the streets of Haiti with rotting bodies never seen in the US news so that US corporations could keep getting baseballs, hand-crochetted bikinis, furniture, sugar for blood-soaked pennies.

Beauboeuf Jean
Benoit Francois
Borges José
Charles Serge
Clermont Klebert
Constant Daniel
Doublette Antonio
Dovisthein Israel Delva
Duperval Deslandes
Elizée Georges
Esquerra Sussan Jaime
Etienne Augustin
Eyma Malherbe
Florin Jean Charles D.
Florville Rene
Garcia Mores
Garcon Jean Baptiste
Gourgues Gerard
Guerrier Delienne
Hyppolite Gambetta
Hyppolite Pierre
Jacques Charles Louis
Jaures Leon Rene
Jeune Homere Louis
Jonquille Gabart
Joseph Arnold
Lamarre Joseph
Lebreton Raymond
Lemoine Joseph Charles
Montes Oedipe
Montrose Edmond
Nestor Jean-Philippe
Paret Fritz
Pean Serge
Plummer Robert
Pluvoise Jean Baptiste
Prosper Rene
Roc Durce
Romain Franck he gets a double thank you!
Rosemond Andre
Tassy Jean double thank you there too!
Tavernier Vincent
Thomas Jean
Thomas Pierre
Tibere Love
Toussaint Gerard
Turnier Charles
Ulrick Desert Jean
Wolley Emile

((List compiled from open source materials on the web))

Keep sweetening your coffee with that tear-soaked sugar. Haitian children thank you for your vision of democracy!

I thank you for my cousin who was gunned down in the streets of Haiti by one of your SOA angels!

We thank you for the superb training every Ton Ton Macoute received at the SOA! We thank you for using organizations like the NED to continue oppressing the country while uninformed people sit back and wring their hands saying "but we're just trying to help".

A very bitter tear-soaked THANK YOU!!!

====

VFP Chapter 88 Report on the School of the America’s Watch

For over 50 years, our tax money has been supporting a school that has trained over 60,000 people from Central and South America in commando tactics, mine warfare, military intelligence and psychological warfare, using manuals advocating torture, execution and blackmail against civilians, after which they go home to places like Columbia or Guatemala and wage war against their own people. In this way, hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans have been tortured, raped, assassinated or “disappeared”.

In the face of this, one must ask why? The answer is that U.S. foreign policy in Latin America has but one purpose, and that is to consolidate wealth and power in the hands of the corporate elite. The graduates of the School of the Americas, or WHISC, provide the military muscle for that policy. These graduates are linked to every human rights violation in Latin America over the past 50 years, the most notable being the murder of the Maryknoll nuns, the murder of the Jesuit priests and their housekeeper and her daughter, and the assassination of El Salvador’s Archbishop Romero, who days before his murder, begged Jimmy Carter to stop sending them guns.

The history of the SOA has also been to work in secret and to silence dissent. Those of us who travel to Ft.Benning refuse to be quiet.. I have only been there twice, but Father Roy Bourgois, who founded the SOA Watch, started it in 1989, with only 10 people. Now those of us who want to close the school and remember the dead, are way over 10,000. Next year we hope for even more.

<snip>
There were an amazing number of speakers and musicians…Pete Seeger, Amy Goodman, Helen Prejean, Father Roy, Joan Baez, Noam Chomsky, Bonnie Rait, Susan Serandon,, Howard Zinn…to name just a few.

I must not forget to say that 51 people committed civil disobedience by scrambling here and there over or under the fences onto the grounds of the base where they were immediately arrested and shackled for trespassing. These people, many of them nuns and priests, were not only perfectly aware that they faced a $5000.00 fine and up to 6 months in prison, but they were also quite sure that this year they would suffer more abuse than ever in the hands of the military because of Homeland Security.

<snip>

There is much more to tell, but I will end by saying that I haven’t got a lot of hope about closing the school, for even if they did close it at Ft.Benning, surely it would be moved to a place where we couldn’t find it. As long as our government, our economy and our military are locked into an unrestrained, profit-driven corporate system that depends on exploitation and war for its very existence, and on the other hand the poor of the world will never stop fighting for enough food for their children, there will always be a need for ruthless, cooperative dictators, paramilitaries, and death squads. Thus, there will always be a need for what the SOA WATCH calls Schools for Assassins.

<snip>
Jane Newton
Southern Vermont Veterans For Peace Chapter 88
November 27,2003

((Re-printed with permission of the author- a fellow Vet for Peace))



=======================


Stan Goff: Hard Rain

Stan Goff is a retired Special Forces Master Sergeant((familiar to all PROGRESSIVES for his book about his service in Haiti)).

I am a veteran of operations gone bad, and right now I am experiencing a powerful sense of vicarious deja vu.

<snip>

Obviously, the parade of aging white Generals - even including my old commander Dave Grange - who simultaneously know that the US will prevail militarily through sheer force and that this entire operation is going terribly, terribly wrong, do not understand the wider political implications of what they are witnessing.


Still, they seem discomfited. They have been converted into cheap propagandists, and for me it's a lot like seeing a formerly tyrannical Sergeant Major who's retired and become an oily insurance salesman, reduced to haunting the barracks, kissing up to his own former troops to earn his way in the real world by selling them policies.

<snip>

How the mighty can fall from great heights! Perhaps that's too majestic. The Haitians say, the higher the monkey climbs the tree, the more you see nothing but his ass.

Watch Wesley Clark, the CNN military star, who reputation in the Army was that of an inveterate ass kisser. He harbors presidential pretensions, and he's smooth as a baby's butt. Watch how the worry lines now come right through the pancake makeup.

Donald Rumsfeld has become positively humble - a first in his lifetime - during his Pentagon briefs.

George W. Bush is nearly absent. No one will risk his extemporaneous gaffes. Might he be medicated? His two-line appearances are hoarse and fatigued.

<snip>

http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/2003_03.html

((Note to mods, I have the author's permission, as a personal friend, to repost any and all of his writings))

[Jerseycoa]

39. I need some clarification on candidates' positions

"Last March" 2003 - Kucinich and Gephardt voted yes on a bill by James McGovern to close down the school. This is clear enough.

In 1998, Kerry signed a bill to close down the school. But it looks like all Kerry information (in this article) is coming from McGovern, (who has endorsed Kerry). 1998, of course, predates the closing, reforming and reconstituting of the School of the Americas into the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation in 2000, so I am not clear on Kerry's current stand.

Clark is clear as a bell on this, along with Kucinich and Gephardt.

I am hoping supporters will post other candidates' current or latest positions with links, so we can set to rest who supports or doesn't support closing the school in its current format:

Kerry, Sharpton, Edwards, Lieberman, Dean.


"US Representative James P. McGovern, a Democrat of Worcester, introduced a bill last March to shut down the school, cosponsored by 102 representatives, including Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio and Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri -- both candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination this year. Senator John F. Kerry, another candidate, signed on to a Senate bill to shut down the school, introduced in 1998, according to McGovern's staff.

The school has "become a symbol that represents all of the things we don't want people to think of us in Latin America," said McGovern, who has endorsed Kerry in the presidential race. "It's a stain on our human rights record, and it seems to me that at a time when we're trying to lift up our credibility around the world, especially in the area of human rights, it would be a very powerful statement" to close it."

[maddezmom]

48. can't find anything on Dean's or Edward's website n/t

[CWebster]

37. This in itself is enough to prevent me from ever voting for Clark.

This in itself is enough to be extremely conserned, if not at least apprehensive about this guy. Yet it is almost twisted into a positive just to rationalize Clark's outrageous defense of the one of the most shameful organizations ever operating out of the US military. It is a disgrace to all that progressives and human rights activists stand against and a violation of all they stand for.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. This is not good.

My previous decision to vote for Clark, if he should get the nomination, is getting VERY shakey at best. I would hope that any of the candidates would vow to shut down that disgraceful relic of the cold war. But, that would call for great courage in the face of the "support our troops" BS now considered the third rail. I don't know if they make clothespins strong enough for my nose.

[Tinoire]

38. Great- SOA being backed at DU now inorder to white-wash Clark

The people of Latin America and the Carribbean thank you. As do all the DUers, including myself, who are still intent on protesting the school & getting it shut down.


---

10,000 people from far and wide gathered at the gates of Ft. Benning to speak truth to power, calling for the closure of the School of the Americas (renamed: the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation).

Our movement continues to grow - for many it was the first time that they joined the annual vigil action at Fort Benning and stood together with thousands to demand a fundamental change in US foreign policy. It was a spirited weekend filled with hope, joy, courage and solidarity. Thousands engaged in an act of nonviolent civil disobedience as they crossed en masse onto Fort Benning and transformed the main gate into a memorial wall for the countless victims of the SOA/WHISC

<snip>

A trial is scheduled to take place on January 26, 2004. The defendants are facing up to six month in prison and $5000 fine for their courageous witness that is exposing the issue of SOA violence in Latin America to the public.

<snip>

On Saturday, November 22, the U.S. Military placed high-powered loudspeakers inside Fort Benning, directed at the peaceful, permitted demonstration outside of the gates of the base. The military blasted music at high decibels in an attempt to drown out speakers and to disrupt the vigil (The technique of blasting loud music as a “psychological operation” has been used by militaries around the world. This method was used to drive SOA-graduate Manuel Noriega out of sanctuary in Panama and by Israel during the 2002 siege of the Church of the Nativity.) After receiving phone calls from across the country and inquiries from the media, Fort Benning military officials backed down and turned off the music that had been blared at the vigil site for six hours.

<snip>

The Columbus convergence concludes a week of resistance to empire and corporate globalization. Thousands gathered in Miami to protest the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA), and 100,000 gathered in London-during Bush's visit-to protest the invasion and occupation of Iraq. SOA Watch organizers have been coordinating with organizers in Miami, and working in solidarity with organizers in England. The three mobilizations released a joint statement of solidarity (see http://www.soaw.org/new/article.php?id=689).

"Our struggles are interconnected," said Fr. Roy Bourgeouis, founder of SOA Watch. "From the SOA, to FTAA, to the invasion of Iraq, our government's foreign policy is serving the interests of a few, and making us a lot of enemies."
http://www.soaw.org/new/article.php?id=711


Joint Solidarity Statement of The Stop the War Coalition (UK), The Mobilization to Stop the FTAA (US), and The School of the Americas Watch Movement (US)

We, The Stop the War Coalition in London, England, The Mobilization to Stop the FTAA in Miami, Florida (U.S.) and the School of the Americas Watch Movement in Columbus, Georgia (U.S.), are mobilizing tens of thousands of people this week in the United Kingdom and the United States to hold our governments accountable. Our struggles are interconnected and we organize in solidarity with each other.

We recognize our governments’ foreign policies are not bringing security to the world any more than their economic policies are bringing prosperity.

The invasion and occupation of Iraq, the training of soldiers in counterinsurgency at the School of the Americas, and the expansion of so-called “free-trade” agreements like the Free Trade Area of the Americas, are strategies in the building of an empire based on greed, violence and power. These policies breed resentment.

Democracy will never come about through military invasion. “Free trade” does not equal democracy; in fact the two are usually at odds. And our governments’ claims of “spreading democracy” throughout the world rings especially hollow when they have failed to even listen to the democratic input of their own citizenry.

We do not want war for empire. We do not want training camps where soldiers are taught to torture and assassinate their own people. We do not want economic globalization that serves elite interests to the detriment of the rest of the world.

We are united in building a world in which the values of justice, cooperation, respect for the earth, and genuine democracy are upheld. We believe this is the surest way to bring about lasting peace and security. To this end we will struggle together on both sides of the Atlantic and around the world.


Media contacts:

Stop the War Coalition (UK)
Contact: John Rees, (011 44) 207.053.2155
For further info: http://www.stopwar.org.uk

Mobilization to Stop the FTAA (US)
Contact: Adam Hurter, 305.576.4881
For further info: http://www.stopftaa.org

School of the Americas Watch (US)
Contact: Matthew Smucker, 202.903.7257
For further info: http://www.soaw.org

http://www.soaw.org/new/article.php?id=689

Stop the FTAA - Shut Down the SOA!

Nov.19-21 Miami, FL ~ Nov.21-23 Fort Benning, Georgia

Economic oppression and military repression are flip sides of the same coin. The economic terrorism inflicted on the poor that accompanies "free trade" could not stand without the repressive military apparatus that brutalizes people who rise up to resist. Those who oppose the globalization of greed and those who work to end US training of repressive foreign armies are joined in one effort.

People from across the Americas will converge from November 19-21, 2003 in Miami, Florida to voice their opposition to the Free Trade Area of the Americas agreement (FTAA) and from November 21-23 in Ft. Benning, Georgia to speak out against the School of the Americas (SOA). Miami will be the host of the FTAA ministerial meeting, which brings together the trade ministers of the hemisphere to launch the final stage of the FTAA negotiations. Fort Benning is the home of the School of the Americas, where repressive Latin American troops are being trained as the military muscle to enforce exploitative policies.

http://www.soaw.org/new/article.php?id=675

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. Well, political expediency trumps principles every time..for some.

Thanks for the post. As usual, the "moderates" are eager to overlook little things like sacrificing people's lives in the name of "pragmatism" and phoney patriotism.

[Bertrand]

69. Look at the bigger picture

obviously the SOA is not something that progressives want to exist, but the fact is is that the World is run on the principles of Free Enterprise Capitalism, and because of that, it is necessessary within that framework to defend it from insurgency. All of the Candidates support Capitalism, which inevitably brings the continued cycle of regulation to liberalism, so to single out and condemn the ones that get their hands dirty is pretty linear.

To see Clark admit to his voting past, stand up for a position that is not in his interest to do so in a very volatile time in the campaign, and release all of his records speaks volumes about his character, which is the single most important quality in electing a representitive.


Edit: Spelling

[Tinoire]

97. Why thank you Bertrand

Thank you for honestly admitting that

the principles of Free Enterprise Capitalism, and because of that, it is necessessary within that framework to defend it from insurgency.

That is your world view and I respect it.

It's not mine as a progressive which is why I fight it because I believe we have no right to dicate that the world must run on Free Enterprise Capitalism which is what many peoples are fighting us over. And yes that is why we have the NED, the SOA, the CSIS, etc... to protect that Free Enterprise Capitalism.

I am unfortunately enough of a Capitalist to understand but I am not that by choice, I am like that because I live in a country that runs on that. I do not agree with forcing other countries to tow OUR line simply because it benefits us. That, I will fight til the day I die. Thank you for your refreshing honesty and more power to you for your informed vote & not white-washing this.

[Bertrand]

101. That's not my world view

thats the world view of all of Democratic Candidates, including Kucinich. My political philosophy is more within the range of anarchism.

[oasis]

93. If Bush vowed to close this evil school, how many here would vote for him?

[corporatewhore]

100. i actually was going to go to Ft.Benning w/the Friends

but only had enough to go to miami and gave my spot to my friend I am saving up to go Next year

[Turkw]

123. So it is better to not teach human rights and democratic ideals to

officers from countries where human rights violations are going on?

This would accomplish what exactly?

[Hoppin_Mad]

50. Thanks - Here's what Amnesty International says

5. Investigate and suspend the School of the Americas/WHINSEC and introduce strong human rights safeguards in all US military, security and police training schools. Changes to the institution and its curriculum do not absolve the US government of responsibility for identifying and prosecuting those responsible for human rights violations perpetrated by the School of the Americas, including past and current US personnel responsible for having drafted, approved, or taught with manuals that advocate illegal tactics such as torture. The US Government should take immediate steps to establish an independent commission to investigate into the past activities of the SOA and its graduates, particularly the use of these manuals in SOA training and the impact of such training. Pending the publication of the findings of the independent commission of inquiry, training at the WHINSEC-SOA should be suspended. The independent commission of inquiry should recommend appropriate reparations for any violations of human rights to which training at SOA contributed, including criminal prosecutions, redress for victims and their families, and a public apology. To help further prevent abuses, the US Congress should adopt legislation that would require the Secretary of Defense to review and certify that all US military, security, and police courses and training manuals are consistent with US obligations under international human rights and humanitarian law.

[Jerseycoa]

53. Do you have a link to that, Hoppin_Mad?

I'm having trouble finding it on their site and would like to read the whole thing. Thanks.

[Hoppin_Mad]

57. Yes - Here it is

http://www.amnestyusa.org/arms_trade/ustraining/military_101.html

[Jerseycoa]

58. Thank you nt

[Bolo Boffin]

68. Already been done.

The school went through a major reformation in the 90's after a few manuals were discovered to have unauthorized messages in them. All of Amnesty's concerns have been met.

Neither Dean or Clark will close the school.

[corporatewhore]

72. well apparently the American Friends Service Comittee(quakers) concerns

have not been met i was going to go with them last november to fort benning but i gave my spot to my friend who went

[Bolo Boffin]

73. I know that people don't believe the concerns have been met...

...because we have to have four threads a day on the SOA. However, what's actually been done and what people believe to be done are often not the same thing, as in this case.

Attacking the SOA is tilting at windmills. It's taken out of the highest devotion to humanity, but is sadly lacking in facts and logic.

[Hoppin_Mad]

81. There is a current biil to close the 'reformed' SOA - Windmills ? -nt-

[Bolo Boffin]

113. Windmills. eom

[Hoppin_Mad]

131. The 102 co-sponsors of the CURRENT bill HR 1258 don't think so

Your position on the WHISC, and that of those who share it, is to the right of many Republicans.


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:h.r.1258:

[Bolo Boffin]

137. Doesn't change the facts about the school

And my position on the WHISC is to the left of many other Republicans and many Democrats. Your point?

[Hoppin_Mad]

142. You don't KNOW the facts about the school

You know what the school says - HR 1258 would close the school for less than a year - and study the 'facts'

[dd123]

62. Difference between Dean and Clark is huge.

Dean will do an impartial look at the SOA. He will close it if it looks bad.

Clark has already made up his mind. With Clark that puppy is staying open. I bet even if they found gross violations, Clark still supports the premise of the school and would probably keep it open. He would just go on about "reforming" it.

[Bolo Boffin]

67. You're slandering Clark

He's done an open mind examination of the school. It isn't doing what you say it's doing.

Dean hasn't done his homework, and you're slamming Clark for knowing what actually goes on at the school.

Both have promised to close the school if anyone can show the school is teaching human rights abuses. Clark already knows they aren't; Dean will learn they aren't.

Neither will close the school.

[dd123]

85. I really wonder if we're not teaching human rights abuses...

Haven't we done some not so good things lately?

Seems that if we do some of these things in war, we're probably teaching them too.

[exJW]

66. This school is a scapegoat issue

... It boggles the mind, the shallow knee jerk thinking behind the "this is a major presidential issue!!!" "this school must be shut down because some of it's alma mata have done horrible things!!" reactions to SOA.

Do anyone really think these guys had to go to school to learn how to be murderously bad mu'fukas? "Class, please open your books to chapter 13 and notice the illustration; who can tell us what the illustration is? Yes Mr. Pinochet? Very good, that's right, it's called a 'machete'. Now lets read about some of the things we can do with a 'machete'".

Obviously, a school with SOA's charter could do some good for the world, but not if it is shut down because faux liberals need a sacrificial scapegoat to feel like they are making a difference.

[Tinoire]

74. New Name - Same Shame. Close the School of the Americas!

On January 17, 2001 the SOA was renamed the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. However, the School of the America's continuing connection to atrocities and human rights abuses remains unacknowledged, unaddressed, and unchanged. Even SOA supporter, the late Sen. Paul Coverdell, characterized the changes as "cosmetic", saying they would ensure that the old SOA could continue its mission and operation.

No Change - Just like the SOA, the new school is:

1.Still be located at Ft. Benning
2.Still training Latin American soldiers in commando tactics, military intelligence, psychological operations, & combat arms
3.Still has no independent outside oversight
4.Still does not monitor graduates for human rights abuses
5.Still has inadequate screening of soldiers who attend
6.Still touts fancy human rights courses that nobody takes
7.Still refuses to acknowledge that "you can't teach democracy through the barrel of a gun"

The reasons to close the SOA still exist - including: to name just a few…

• It spends millions of US tax dollars and has trained some of this hemisphere's worst human rights abusers and thugs like: Manuel Noriega, now in prison for drug trafficking; Gen. Hugo Banzer, infamous ex-dictator who silenced his opposition; Roberto D'Aubuisson, death squad leader in El Salvador; Gen. Hector Gramajo, architect of the genocide campaign against the indigenous people in Guatemala; and countless others.
  
• It trained the killers of six Jesuit priests and Archbishop Oscar Romero in El Salvador
  
• SOA graduates murdered and raped 4 US churchwomen and 900 unarmed civilians in El Mozote
  
• SOA training manuals targeted union organizers and workers and advocated torture and assassination as a way to eliminate opponents.
  
• SOA gradates murdered 19 striking banana workers in Colombia and killed human rights defenders in Haiti
  
• SOA graduates murdered a UN official in Chile and trained ten of the 30 Chilean officers charged along with Augusto Pinochet for crimes against humanity.

SOA Graduates continue to commit atrocities. For example:

1. In January 2000, SOA graduate and former head of Guatemala's notorious D-2 Intelligence Unit, Col. Lima Estrada was arrested for the brutal murder of human rights champion, Bishop Juan Gerardi just 2 years ago.

2.In February 2000, Human Rights Watch and the US State Department issued human rights reports citing SOA graduates for recent murders, kidnappings and ongoing collusion with paramilitary groups in Colombia.

3.The DOD's "new" school is the same old School of the Americas "democracy through the barrel of a gun" approach that has heaped suffering on our sisters and brothers in Latin America.

4. Two of the four military officers who led the failed coup against President Hugo Chavez in April 2003, were SOA graduates (financed by $1 million US tax dollars funnelled via the NED, another of Clark's organizations)

The "reforms" totally ignore the horrific human rights history of the SOA and make no attempt to even to acknowledge let alone address the problems. The only solution they offered is to change the name.

All of the reasons – and more – why we need to close the SOA are still true. Nothing has changed. And now we are being given a new school that is just like the SOA. An SOA Clone. New name, but same shame.

We must close the SOA and not reopen it under any name.

===========================

View the SOA videos--they can be purchased by calling Maryknoll: 1-800-227-8523 (order the new SOA video: "Guns and Greed")

Call or email SOA Watch (202-234-3440 / [email protected]) for information or visit their web-site: www.soaw.org

For more information: SOA Watch ~ PO Box 4566 ~ Washington DC 20017 ~ phone [phone] ~ [email protected]

[Bolo Boffin]

76. Excellent propaganda! Bravo!

Short on the logic that implicates the school with what its graduates did, but a fine piece of work, indeed.

I am aware that your motivations are of the highest order, but high motivations don't excuse lapses in logic. Nothing you've posted implicates the school in these deeds.

[Tinoire]

87. It's not supposed to. You're supposed to do what thousands

have already done and go do some research instead of just mounting a rather transparent defense for your candidate and burying your head in the sand.

While you are busy calling it propaganda, several people are clicking away on the links and realizing that Clark is not what he wants them to think he is and that his associations with some of the worst organizations in our country do not represent them, their interests, or their world view.

Kind of strange how that works.

[LuminousX]

96. An important link

http://www.soaw.org/new/article.php?id=205

[Bolo Boffin]

120. to "post hoc" anecdotal information

List atrocities all day, and rightfully condemn the perps.

But please provide the evidence that the SOA taught them to do it.

[Hoppin_Mad]

80. Even Far Right Wing Joe Scarborough tried to close the SOA !

Subject: Clark-SOA Defenders - Right Wing Joe Scarborough tried to close the SOA

"Representatives Jim McGovern (D-MA), Joe Scarborough (R-FL), Joe Moakley (D-MA), Connie Morella (R-MD), Christopher Shays (R-CT), and Lane Evans (D-IL) introduced a bill to close the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (successor to School of the Americas) on Thursday, May 10, 2001. The bill, HR 1810 , is modeled after last years  Moakley/Scarborough/McGovern/Campbell amendment to the Defense Authorization Bill. It calls for the closure of the school and the establishment of a joint congressional task force to assess U.S. training of Latin American military."

---


"Just a few weeks before his death from leukemia on May 28, U.S. Rep. Joe Moakley (D., Mass.) was one of six members of Congress to introduce a bill to close the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (formerly the U.S. Army School of the Americas). Moakley had been a steadfast opponent of the counterinsurgency school. In its 50-year history, the School of the Americas (SOA) has trained some 60,000 Latin American troops in commando tactics, military intelligence, psychological operations and sniper fire. Their targets have included labor organizers and religious leaders, students and teachers, peasants and workers. The late Congressman Moakley’s opposition to the School of Americas dates to one of the more notorious events associated with the school’s graduates: the 1989 murder of six Jesuits, along with their housekeeper and her teenage daughter by Salvadoran military personnel.

The South Boston representative led the Congressional task force that traveled to El Salvador to investigate the massacre. Upon his return, he exposed the role of SOA training in the deaths, and launched a continuing effort to close the school. "

The actual bill can be found here: http://www.theorator.com/bills107/hr1810.html

(additional text from) http://www.ranknfile-ue.org/uen_0601_soa.html


FACT - The military loving, FAR right wing reactionary Scarborough (now on MSNBC) felt that the 'reformed" WHISC was so problematic that he INTRODUCED a bill to close it, even AFTER it was supposedly 'reformed'.

This ought to give the Clark-SOA/WHISC defenders here some food for thought.

Your stance (and that of General Clark) on this bell-weather issue of great importance to many progressives is actually FAR to the right of FAR right wing Joe Scarborough.

Would you care to explain how this fits in with your core Democratic beliefs and principles ?

[maddezmom]

83. well, since you asked

after everything I've read here, again and again...I agree with you and the others that it should be closed. And I think if Clark is presented with the facts that you have brought up time and time again, he would either close or change the mission of the SOA to insure it provided only the tools to help build democracy.

[Hoppin_Mad]

84. I wish General Clark would agree with you -nt-

[CWebster]

89. How could he possibly not know? nt

[Tom Rinaldo]

88. I trying to reply when your "new" thread got locked.

Here is the post that I had written, most of it still is relevent:

"Good for Scarborough that he cares what happens there.

That's the point, and that's the only point this "new" thread makes. You could easily have added this tidbit of information to the discussion in a post on one of the other two threads.

I do not usually see the world in stark Good and Evil terms. People who do are usually pretty frightening when you come right down to it. Lots of good people have a range of differing opinions on the S.O.A. So the fact that a partisan Republican might be troubled by some things that have happened at S.O.A. is not "shocking" to me. I don't start out assuming only Democrats can be concerned about allegations about or evidence of torture and murder.

Actually while Scarborough is pretty far right he does not compete with the lowest of the low in integrity in my opinion. I have seen him confess on the air to having been mistaken. If Rush called for the S.O.A.'s closing, on the other hand, I would be shocked.

If you want to add something truly valuable to this discussion, go dig up some specific incriminating evidence of current abominations knowingly being sponsored by the S.O.A. If your evidence is solid and consequential, Wes will shut it down."

[Bolo Boffin]

110. Florida Republican? Pandering to the Latino vote.

Next.

[Hoppin_Mad]

134. Florida 'latinos' are right wing Cubans who support the SOA -nt-

[CWebster]

82. Featured headline today:

http://www.commondreams.org/


Why do we need a school of the Americas anyway? What is the purpose of it? Why does the US military have a school specifically to train soldiers in other countries that all these US bishops demand be closed:

http://www.soawne.org/USbishops.html


What the SOA has wrought:


http://www.geocities.com/~virtualtruth/soa_atro.htm


Defend it.

[maddezmom]

86. just wondering how you feel about Dean's position ?

this is paraphrased of course, but it's in this thread...he'll close it after the CIA investigates.

[Hoppin_Mad]

94. Not as strong as I would like but -

He doesn't have a history of actively defending it, and denying the allegations, as Clark does

[Bolo Boffin]

114. Because

Clark knows what the school is doing. Dean does not.

Dean will not close the SOA.

[LuminousX]

95. School of America (WHISC) Watch

http://www.soaw.org/new/

[IndianaGreen]

99. School of the Americas: Backyard terrorism

Backyard terrorism

The US has been training terrorists at a camp in Georgia for years - and it's still at it

George Monbiot
Tuesday October 30, 2001
The Guardian

"If any government sponsors the outlaws and killers of innocents," George Bush announced on the day he began bombing Afghanistan, "they have become outlaws and murderers themselves. And they will take that lonely path at their own peril." I'm glad he said "any government", as there's one which, though it has yet to be identified as a sponsor of terrorism, requires his urgent attention.

For the past 55 years it has been running a terrorist training camp, whose victims massively outnumber the people killed by the attack on New York, the embassy bombings and the other atrocities laid, rightly or wrongly, at al-Qaida's door. The camp is called the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, or Whisc. It is based in Fort Benning, Georgia, and it is funded by Mr Bush's government.

Until January this year, Whisc was called the "School of the Americas", or SOA. Since 1946, SOA has trained more than 60,000 Latin American soldiers and policemen. Among its graduates are many of the continent's most notorious torturers, mass murderers, dictators and state terrorists. As hundreds of pages of documentation compiled by the pressure group SOA Watch show, Latin America has been ripped apart by its alumni.

In June this year, Colonel Byron Lima Estrada, once a student at the school, was convicted in Guatemala City of murdering Bishop Juan Gerardi in 1998. Gerardi was killed because he had helped to write a report on the atrocities committed by Guatemala's D-2, the military intelligence agency run by Lima Estrada with the help of two other SOA graduates. D-2 coordinated the "anti-insurgency" campaign which obliterated 448 Mayan Indian villages, and murdered tens of thousands of their people. Forty per cent of the cabinet ministers who served the genocidal regimes of Lucas Garcia, Rios Montt and Mejia Victores studied at the School of the Americas.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,583254,00.html

[NV1962]

108. Help! German soldiers spotted in Afghanistan!

Hitler failed once, he shouldn't succeed this time! Those Germans must be stopped, before their drive takes them deeper into Asia!

<...>


Sounds odd? Don't think it's appropriate to turn the 40s into 04?

Then knock off the silly bait-and-switch games on the SOA and the WHISC.

What happened in / because of SOA is by no means a negligible bunch of criminal acts, but that ought to be dealt with by criminal prosecution, from the Presidents who authorized it on down.

The present-day WHISC has a very good reason for its existance, and until someone provides some real proof, instead of monotonously repeated murmurs about past atrocities, interrupted soleley by vague references to Quakers - and we all know that they're never wrong, don't we!


U Wes A !

[corporatewhore]

118. Oh totally those Quakers and labor/human rights activists are just abunch

of crazy propagandists.Yeah it has totally changed since 1996 (ages ago)The SOA is the enemy of labor and human rights
New York Times: Union Says Coca-Cola in Colombia Uses Thugs

By Juan Forero

BOGOTÁ, Colombia, July 24 — An American labor-rights group and the United Steelworkers union have filed a suit in the United States that accuses Coca-Cola and some bottlers here of using a right-wing paramilitary group to intimidate and, in some cases, assassinate labor organizers. Coca-Cola adamantly rejected the accusations on Monday.

Along with one of the three bottlers cited in the suit, the soft-drink giant said the company and its affiliates abided by the laws of Colombia and other countries.

"We adhere to the highest standards of ethical conduct and business practices and we require all of our companies, operating units and suppliers to abide by the laws and regulations in the countries that they do business," said Natalie Rule, a spokeswoman for Coca-Cola in Atlanta.

Juan Carlos Domínguez, a spokesman for Panamco Industrial de Gaseosas, the major Coke bottler in Colombia, said his company was considering legal action against the plaintiffs. "Their purpose is to give out false information," Mr. Domínguez said in a telephone interview. "They are trying to tie us to groups that operate at the margin of the law."

The suit, filed on Friday in Federal District Court in Miami, arises in the midst of a fierce killing spree of union workers across Colombia, most of them slain by gunmen who belong to the main paramilitary group, the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, union organizers and human rights groups contend.

Sixty-seven union members have been killed this year, mostly from unions that represent government workers like teachers and utilities workers, said the National Union School, a research and educational center in Medellín. Last year, at least 130 were slain, the center said.

The suit, filed by lawyers from the International Labor Rights Fund in Washington and the steelworkers' union, was brought on behalf of the estate of a union leader killed in 1996 and others who have been threatened. The defendants, in addition to Coca-Cola and Panamco, are Panamerican Beverages of Miami, which owns Panamco, and Bebidas y Alimentos, a bottler owned by Richard Kirby of Miami.

The suit asserts that paramilitary forces killed three workers, members of the National Union for Food Industry Workers who worked in a Bebidas y Alimentos plant in Carepa in northern Colombia. The company declined to comment. No one has been arrested in connection with the murders.

Bill McCaughan, a lawyer in Miami who represents Mr. Kirby, said the allegations in the suit were "totally baseless."

"Mr. Kirby is a well-respected businessman," Mr. McCaughan said. "He has no association with either the paramilitary group or the guerrilla group, and obviously had no association with any group that would take any people out and shoot them."

Another three union workers at bottlers, whose cases were not mentioned in the suit, have also been killed by paramilitary forces since 1989, said Javier Correa, president of the union, also known as Sinaltrainal. The latest victim, Oscar Darío Soto, was killed on June 21 in a bottling plant in Montería, a port.

"We believe that this is part of the political persecution and terror that is a part of life here in Colombia against the unions," Mr. Correa said.

The number of union workers at Coke plants in Colombia has dropped, to 450 from 1,300 in 1993, he said. Total Sinaltainal membership — the union represents workers in many food industries — has dropped, to 2,400 from 5,800 five years ago, said Mr. Correa, and 14 union organizers have been assassinated.

The suit says that the bottlers "contracted with or otherwise directed paramilitary security forces that utilized extreme violence and murdered, tortured, unlawfully detained or otherwise silenced trade union leaders."

Some of the most explosive allegations are directed at the Carepa plant. The suit contends that managers, in trying to break the union, used paramilitary gunmen to kill two organizers, José Eleazar Manco and Luis Enrique Gómez, in 1994. The gunmen then threatened workers, forcing the executive board of the union to resign and leave the area.

A new board was soon elected by workers. But one of its members, Isídro Segundo Gil, was killed in 1996 at the plant by paramilitary gunmen, the suit says.

The suit also contends that the plant manager, Ariosto Milan Mosquera, had told workers that he had given an order to paramilitary forces to destroy the union. The suit says Mr. Mosquera frequently associated with the paramilitary members and let them intimidate workers.

Two days after Mr. Gil's death, plant managers passed out union resignation forms that the suit says Bebidas y Alimentos prepared. Dozens of workers resigned soon after that.

Although Bebidas y Alimentos is a defendant in the suit, Mr. Mosquera is not.

"Mr. Gil wasn't just a worker who was randomly killed," said Terry Collingsworth, general counsel of the Labor Rights Fund. "He was involved in the union's ongoing representation of workers."

The suit also says unionists at Panamco plants were threatened, falsely imprisoned and tortured because of their union activities.

[NV1962]

121. Nice reading, great picture

Couldn't find the word "school" other than in "the National Union School" though, and zip occurances of the word "clark", to my astonishment.

Well done, very convincing. Compliments, kudos and mad props.

[Turkw]

122. There is nothing in this piece that show the SOA teaches anyone to kill

for Coca Cola. I have seen more information that the individual country, that country's military culture, and the relationship the military and the government have is a much more likely determining factor regarding human rights violations than the SOA.

[NV1962]

124. Don't you know, Coca-Cola is people!

Every sip of soda is a mouthful of blood!

[Turkw]

126. That's the kind of rhetoric I expect from a Pepsist!! You can pry my cola

out of my cold, dead hand!

[NV1962]

128. I'm on the phone with McAuliffe right now!

I won't tolerate this unmeritous attack by a Coca-Colator!

[Hoppin_Mad]

135. Army Major who TAUGHT at SOA admits to GROSS human rights violations

MAJOR JOE BLAIR (RET.): I have personal knowledge that the School of the Americas, while I was there for three years, taught two intelligence interrogation courses, which taught the U.S. Army position that it was appropriate to use physical abuse when interrogating anyone in their country, to also use false imprisonment, false arrest, and kidnapping of family members.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/july-dec99/sotamericas_9-21.html


15 January l998

FROM: Major Joseph A. Blair, U.S. Army Retired--former instructor at the United U.S. Army School of Americas


4. As a graduate of Marquette University (Jesuit) class of l968 and St. Ignatius College Prep (Jesuit) in Chicago l964 and Vietnam veteran who served with William Colby in Vietnam as an administrative assistant in l971, and who also specialized in Central American military affairs for l2 years as a Latin American U.S. Army Foreign Area Specialist, I can assure you that I have first hand professional experiences and knowledge about the human rights violations the Latin American officer graduates of the U.S. Army School of the Americas committed throughout the l970s and l980s. You demonstrated your knowledge of the same when you released the White House Intelligence Oversight Board findings in l996 which reported to the American public that the U.S. Army School of the Americas condoned teaching Latin American officers false imprisonment, physical abuse, extortion, false arrest, inhumane interrogation techniques normal people call torture, and other U.S. Army infantry killer skills which the Latin American armies have only used in their histories to oppress their own citizens. They have never been our military allies in our two world wars, Korea, or Vietnam, yet you continue to train them. We should de-emphasize Latin American army training and place more emphasis on promoting civilian control of the emerging democracies in Latin America. You also know that Latin American armies operate independently of their elected presidents and are not subjected to their national courts. We must show Latin America that our form of representative government and federalism is the only form of government which will serve the needs of the people in our hemisphere! Let's not show them that our Army acts the same way their's do!

http://www.jaguar-sun.com/chiapas/soa2.html

More smears from radical lefties !

[tinanator]

139. that was then

under Bush the SOA has transformed into an enlightened kinder and gentler mission of peace and justice. This is what you Clark/SOA supporters are inferring, isnt it?

[Hoppin_Mad]

141. They don't seem to want to acknowledge Major Blair - AT ALL ! -nt-