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Strange Death of Michael Gorumba, aka ANOTHER NAUDET LIE

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RayUbinger Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 02:03 PM
Original message
Strange Death of Michael Gorumba, aka ANOTHER NAUDET LIE
The Naudets FAKED TONY BENETATOS' ATTENDANCE at the September 1, 2001 funeral of FDNY rookie Michael Gorumba:
http://911foreknowledge.com/funeral/index.htm

I posit that the Naudet-FDNY team had Michael Gorumba MURDERED (on August 28, 2001), maybe with a heart-attack-mimicking drug, for the specific purpose of advancing the plot and increasing the dramatic tension of the Naudet movie.


Ray Ubinger
http://911foreknowledge.com
NAUDET 911: THE ART OF THE MOCK-YOU-DRAMA



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piobair Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. How
How does a funeral 10 days before the terrorist attack advance the plot or increase dramatic tension? If you go to the NIOSH website and research Firefighter deaths you will find that cardio vascular incidents are the number 1 cause of death in the fire service. A lot of it has to do with going from a calm state to one of extreme exertion without adequate warm up. This will stress even a well conditioned firefighter. If you were going to increase dramatic tension wouldn't you have the firefighter killed by an arab or at least dying after eating a fallafell?
I posit that you are just trying to drive traffic to your whack job website.
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RayUbinger Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Very scriptedly
> How does a funeral 10 days before the terrorist attack advance the plot or increase dramatic tension?

By teaching the filmmakers and Tony to "be careful what they wish for." They were wishing rookie Tony would have a fire. Their documentary had been going nowhere, because he had gone weeks on the job without any fires. "At this point, I knew we had a really great cooking show," jokes Gedeon, about how poorly the documentary was turning out. (Good thing for their documentary that S11 happened, yipee!)

Meanwhile we the audience know that S11 is coming. The jolt of the Gorumba death keys us up to be increasingly afraid for Tony's fate, because we know S11 is coming and we know Tony will THEN have a HELL of a fire.

I wrote of this on my site. You might want to hold your other questions until you read what I pointed to.

The funeral day ends with maudlin, ironic interview of Tony saying he hopes he NEVER has to go to even ONE more fireman funeral EVER again.


Note well:
They WITHHOLD the fact that Tony SURVIVES 9/11, until the narration gets all the way to the early evening of 9/11, when he is THE VERY LAST fireman to make it back to the firehouse (the firehouse where NO ONE died).

(Still, how come we never see CHIEF PFEIFER come back?)


If I'm wrong about WHY they faked Tony's attendance at the Gorumba funeral, the fact remains that THEY FAKED TONY'S ATTENDANCE AT THE GORUMBA FUNERAL. And that is a very elaborate thing for them to set up. So YOU tell me why, if I've guessed wrong.

He was somewhere different, different background, no one familiar near him, and they spliced it in at the end of the blurry pan left. And the big firetruck that passes Tony differs from the big firetruck that was at the real funeral. And it passes Tony in the opposite direction from the direction the big firetruck was going at the real funeral.


> If you go to the NIOSH website and research Firefighter deaths you will find that cardio vascular incidents are the number 1 cause of death in the fire service.

Fine. Now why did his fellows leave him unattended in the throes of his agony? He was reportedly found dead, alone in the firetruck, by a PLAINCLOTHES COP who just HAPPENED to be (wink, wink) passing by the scene of the fire.

Also, he had been RECENTLY TRANSFERRED from his hometown fire station in the Bronx, all the way down to Staten Island? Why did the S.I. firehouse need a ROOKIE so badly? Was he compensated with extra transportation pay? Did he like suddenly having to work so much farther from home?

> I posit that you are just trying to drive traffic to your whack job website.

I catch the Naudets LYING about Gedeon's location during the 1st Hit, and FAKING a man's attendance at a funeral, but they're the respected documentarians and I'm the wack? Check your standards.


Ray Ubinger
http://911foreknowledge.com
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piobair Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Wrong again Ray



"If I'm wrong about WHY they faked Tony's attendance at the Gorumba funeral, the fact remains that THEY FAKED TONY'S ATTENDANCE AT THE GORUMBA FUNERAL. And that is a very elaborate thing for them to set up. So YOU tell me why, if I've guessed wrong."

You are also wrong about the video showing a fake funeral. The buildings are the same in both clips...not closer together as you claim. The fire truck is different. That's because the scene showing the different wiper and grill is of the truck preceeding the truck carrying the casket. It's common in large departments to have a piece of apparatus dedicated for ceremonial use such as funerals. The FDNY has several. The truck preceding the the casket is from the Firefighters company and sometimes the family rides in it. In the scene with the escort you can see this truck in the distance,headlights on.

"Fine. Now why did his fellows leave him unattended in the throes of his agony? He was reportedly found dead, alone in the firetruck, by a PLAINCLOTHES COP who just HAPPENED to be (wink, wink) passing by the scene of the fire."

What proof do you have that he died in throes of agony? He could easily have not felt well,gone to the truck and died. Once again you are indicting by inference, all of his fellow firefighters, and accusing them of murder. As to a cop just happening by, show me a fire scene that doesn't have a few cops around and that's the one that's fake. They are always there for traffic and crowd control.

Once again Ray, your complete lack of knowledge and utter ignorance of any thing related to the fire service allows you to delude yourself into these bizarre flights of fancy.
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RayUbinger Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Your partly valid answers still fall totally short, due to what you ignore
piobair writes:

> The buildings are the same in both clips.

I leave that to each viewer's eyes.


> The fire truck is different.

Yes AND, it is driving in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

They HID this mistake, by a deliberate MIRROR-IMAGING. This is evident when we see that Tony's Face Sore CHANGES CHEEKS.

For NEWLY EXCERPTED CLOSE-UPS of the mysterious bloody W-shaped wound,
click
Tony's Sore
at
http://911foreknowledge.com/funeral/index.htm

The firetruck at the REAL funeral drives FROM the side of the camera which we're FIRST shown has Tony's WOUNDED cheek (during Tony's salute)--TO the side of the camera which we're first shown has Tony's NON-wounded cheek.

OPPOSITELY, the firetruck at the FAKE funeral, the truck we actually see passing Tony, drives FROM the side of the camera with Tony's NON-wounded cheek, TO the side of the camera with Tony's WOUNDED cheek.

A single real funeral would not proceed past Tony in two different directions. Therefore a fake funeral was also filmed, a funeral featuring Tony's actual presence, unlike the real funeral. Q.E.D.


> The truck preceding the the casket is from the Firefighters company and sometimes the family rides in it. In the scene with the escort you can see this truck in the distance,headlights on.

The movie sure as heck DEPICTS that the truck WITHOUT the black banner, the truck actually shown passing Tony, is the SAME as the truck with the coffin! The sequence is as follows:

First we're shown the black-ribboned truck, WITH COFFIN, approaching from the camera's left, ABOUT TO PASS THE CAMERA. (We do not see Tony.)

Then THE NEXT THING we're shown is a close-up of Tony, in which his sore has jumped to his "left" cheek.

Then THE NEXT THING we're shown is the NON-black-ribboned truck, ENTERING THE SAME SHOT (no cut, still the close-up on Tony), and PASSING THE CAMERA (and Tony). But this truck is shot too low to actually show a coffin on top. I submit that this was a deliberate choice because there was no coffin on this truck BUT they wanted us to THINK there was.

I say that because THE NEXT THING we're then shown is the REAR of a truck WITH COFFIN, CONTINUING to pass the cameraman.

So, they SANDWICHED IN the shot of the NON-black-ribboned truck, between two shots of the truck WITH black ribbon AND COFFIN. They DEPICTED them as the SAME truck, CONTRARY to what YOU imply they would say happened.


> What proof do you have that he died in throes of agony?

Okay I admit heart attacks can begin relatively painlessly. But he was only 27 and had passed all his physicals.

In an intriguing side note, Rudy Giuliani scored political points by arranging for himself to give away Gorumba's sister at her wedding on September 15, 2001.


> As to a cop just happening by, show me a fire scene that doesn't have a few cops around and that's the one that's fake. They are always there for traffic and crowd control.

PLAINCLOTHES cops?


> Once again Ray, your complete lack of knowledge and utter ignorance of any thing related to the fire service allows you to delude yourself into these bizarre flights of fancy.

I sympathize with where you're coming from but you are the mistaken one. I'm sorry my findings upset you but I must call this as I see it. The overwhelming majority of S11 firemen ARE TRUE HEROES. But the evil geniuses behind the plot are COUNTING on that to make us REFUSE TO BE ABLE TO SEE that the fire dept. is precisely whom the perps INFILTRATED to make this movie. It is a Big Lie, successful BECAUSE they knew it would be BEYOND initial capacity to be believed possible: "FIREMEN" WERE IN ON THE S11 PLOT.

Don't count my argument as defeated just because you semi-successfully, semi-unsucessfully answer SOME of the points.

You are IGNORING the OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS the two trucks drove in.

You are IGNORING the BLURRY PAN-LEFT INSERTION OF TONY. Blurrily fast to disguse that there's a CUT involved in it, the cut enabling them to put Tony "there."

Will you ignore the creepy bloody face wound too, even though it's now being shown in close-up?


Ray Ubinger
http://911foreknowledge.com/funeral
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piobair Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Transfer
"Also, he had been RECENTLY TRANSFERRED from his hometown fire station in the Bronx, all the way down to Staten Island? Why did the S.I. firehouse need a ROOKIE so badly? Was he compensated with extra transportation pay? Did he like suddenly having to work so much farther from home?"

Transfer could have been for any number of reasons. Firefighters transfer a lot early in there careers to fill out their resumes. Since he only had to make the trip a couple of times a week the distance is no factor. He may have wanted to work on a truck company versus an engine company. If the transfer had been strange or against his wishes I'm sure his family would have said something.



"Hanlon is the Fireman/Narrator/Co-Director/Interview who just HAPPENS to ALSO be a PROFFESIONAL TV ACTOR WITH A RESUME DATING BACK TO 1995. Which they of course never mention.

I regard the five main perps behind the snuff film as being: Hanlon, Chief Pfeifer, Jules Naudet, Gedeon Naudet, and Tony Benetatos. I also regard all the other interviewed firemen in the movie to be at least partly in the know. Chief among THEM, Dennis Tardio and Joe Casaliggi."

Are actually accusing these men of murder? There is a big difference between promoting some loony conspiracy and actually naming names. Just ask Al Sharpton who lost a multimillion dollar lawsuit to a New York DA in the Tawana Brawley hoax.

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RayUbinger Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Fair enough on the transfer question, but
why would Gorumba's fellow firemen leave him alone in the firetruck outside, during his throes of agony, reportedly to be found dead by a PASSING PLAINCLOTHES COP (wink wink)?


> Are actually accusing these men of murder?

1. I am confident that the Naudet-FDNY team, or persons acting at their request, murdered Michael Gorumba in Staten Island on 8/28.

2. I am confident that Joseph Pfeifer and Jules Naudet had direct involvement in a murder against Mychal F. Judge, or/and filming Mychal F. Judge being murdered, inside WTC-1 on 9/11. I am strongly suspicious that James Hanlon and Eddie Fahey helped Pfeifer and Jules Naudet in this.

3. I am actually accusing the seven men I named in my previous post:
Hanlon
Pfeifer
J. Naudet
G. Naudet
Benetatos
Tardio
Casaliggi--
of conspiring, starting months ahead of time, for a snuff film to be made out of the S11 attacks in NYC, featuring dramatic "lucky" footage of unique propaganda value, and for the film to then be sold back to us as a respectable documentary.

Does this answer your question?


Ray Ubinger
http://911foreknowledge.com
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piobair Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Thanks
Thanks for clearing the murder thing up Ray. I passed along your concerns to commissioner Scoppetta and the firefighters union. You should stop by and tell em how it is. Make sure you mention the holograms.

If you're not seeing a team of psychiatrists you really should.
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RayUbinger Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Could you please send the same stuff to the No-Day Bruthaz?
I hear they've been difficult to track down since early 2003.


Thanks back,

Ray Ubinger
http://911foreknowledge.com
NAUDET 911: EMMY-WINNING SNUFF FILM
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. that is outrageous libel

You should be getting sued soon, hopefully.

Calling filmmakers murderers now? Just how many hateful 'disinfo' spooks have we got on this board?

Attacking firefighters after September 11th is in extremely poor taste...well, actually it's far worse than that. This board has reached a new low. Also, this is potential libel, I don't see why it should be tolerated.
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RayUbinger Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. To prove libel you're supposed to prove it's not true
a step you conveniently skip
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. not quite

I am fairly certain you have no basis whatsoever for this.

In many, though not all, legal systems, factual statements must be false to be defamatory. Proving statements to be true is often the best defense against a prosecution for libel. Statements of opinion which cannot be proven true or false will likely need to apply some other kind of defense.

I mean, you called someone a murderer. In order for it NOT to be
libel, you have to PROVE that it's true. Not quite the same thing.

I realize this is a grave concern to petty corporate slanderers
and libelers...if I were them, I wouldn't air my ignorance and
sleaze so openly.

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RayUbinger Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Back at ya
> Proving statements to be true is often the best defense against a prosecution for libel.

There is no such prosecution going on. The Naudets seem to be in hiding. Benetatos has been transferred to an unknown hazardous materials unit and hasn't been interviewed once since the movie came out. Pfeifer and Hanlon don't write back. I have gotten confident enough in the TRUTH of my accusation that I make it regardless of whether or not it is successfully convincing YOU or any other particular person.


> I mean, you called someone a murderer.

You called someone a libeler.

> In order for it NOT to be libel, you have to PROVE that it's true.

No, I only have for it to BE true. That suffices to make it not libel.


Ray Ubinger
http://911foreknowledge.com
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piobair Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. death at fire
I just read the beginning of your treatise regarding the reporting of Firefighter Gorumba's death. All firefighter deaths, if they occur in conjunction with a fire or training or in an accident on the way to a fire are considered line of duty deaths. No distinction is made. Very few firefighter deaths are a result of fire but rather from structural collapse or accident. I'd invite you to visit the National Fallen Firefighter website and read about the deaths of individual firefighters. www.firehero.org .

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RayUbinger Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Irrelevant
Nothing you say in your 'death at fire' post takes issue with anything I said. I didn't say his death wasn't considered to be in the line of duty. I didn't say a distinction was made. I didn't say most firefighter deaths are a result of fire (although I did and do say that the movie MISLEADS us into ASSUMING that he died from fire).


Ray Ubinger
http://911foreknowledge.com
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. You are a real peice of work! n/t
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piobair Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Blocked
Hey Hack.
I see Ray's website is featured prominently on a website banned by Lithos. Can you see a "w" scar anywhere on anybody?
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RayUbinger Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Much better closeup of the W scar
from the funeral scene itself
appears at
http://www.911research.dsl.pipex.com/ubinger
BUT
that site is temporarily down.
Sorry the version one at my site (from the train ride) is so inferior.

If you go watch the dvd yourself, you will see, it is a vivid, bloody, very angular yet squiggling laceration.


Ray Ubinger
http://911foreknowledge.com



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RayUbinger Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Thank you
And "real peice" be with you.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I know .. they invented spell checkers for people like me! nt
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. the firetrucks look identical to me.
I see what you're saying about the editing, but which two firetrucks are different?
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RayUbinger Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Firetruck differences
Good question, thanks. The firetruck at the real funeral:


has

a black ribbon on front

and

windshield wipers whose tips meet in the middle of the windshield (moving in opposite directions from each other when in use)

and

a pair of circular front lights, one red, one yellow, just under each half of the windshield.


The firetruck at the FAKE funeral, where Tony is, I don't have a still-shot of,
but,
click on Tony's Sore, and PAUSE the FIRST of the two videos, when the front of THAT firetruck comes into view. THAT firetruck (the one at the fake funeral) has

no black ribbon on the front

and

a windshield wiper whose tip points toward the SIDE of the truck, like most cars, NOT pointed toward the middle of the windshield

and

a SQUARISH ORANGE frontlight, NOT a pair of circular, one-red and one-yellow lights.


AND, the trucks are driving in OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS with respect to the background assembly of firemen. They are SHOWN travelling APPARENTLY in the SAME direction with respect to US the viewers--from our left to our right--BUT, the clip of the one passing in front of Tony has been MIRROR-IMAGED, BY THE NAUDETS (not by me). This is proved by the fact that TONY has been mirror-imaged. This in turn is proved by the fact that THE FACE WOUND THAT STARTED OUT ON TONY'S RIGHT CHEEK HAS JUMPED TO HIS LEFT CHEEK.


Ray Ubinger
http://911foreknowledge.com
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piobair Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. answered
I answered this in post 10.
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