Just How Many People Were on UA93?

[spooked911]

That is, how many people were in the plane that crashed in Shanksville, PA?

From Jere Longman's "Among the Heroes":

"The collective weight of the people aboard the plane was seven thousand five hundred pounds, the coroner said. Only six hundred pounds of remains were recovered..."



Okay, granted they may not have found every body part, and some flesh may have been burned beyond recognition, and some body parts would be dehydrated and lose water weight.

But they found less than 10% of the total remains???? That is hard to believe-- particularly when the whole plane is supposed to have basically burrowed into the ground, which would minimize any fire or explosion.

I think that it is reasonable that the human remains could lose half their weight during the crash and recovery period. This would mean that if 600 pounds were recovered, 1200 pounds of people were on the plane.

That would be about seven people.

For what it is worth, the crew of UA93 was seven people, according to Longman.

So how many people were on the plane that crashed in Shanksville, and was it really UA93?

SIDE NOTE OF INTEREST: there were only 37 passengers on UA93. With seven crew members and two pilots, that means there were five flight attendants. Why so many flight attendants for such a small passenger load? And for god's sake, why weren't five flight attendants able to warn the cockpit that there were hijackers coming????

That makes NO SENSE. There is something seriously wrong here.

[delver]

1. interesting analysis

i suppose it would be telling to compare pounds of people versus pounds of remains in other crashes. anybody got info on that?

[John Doe II]

2. Another crash

German journalist Wichnweski describes in his first 911 book a crash of two planes at 35000 feet. Both planes flew into each other, crashed and then fall 35000 feet straight down into the ground. The coroner of the crash site said that bodies were in an almost perfect condidtion and they were assuming identification with the help of relatives (no fingerprints or DNA needed).
(Wischnewski: Operation 9/11, p. 200)

Like the crash in Lockerbie which left clearly visible traces of a plane theses planes certainly will have crashed at a very high speed (falling down 35000 feet) but the result us completely different from Shanksville.

And what's the case in Shanksville:

As he (coroner Wallace Miller) clinically recounts to them, holding back very few details, the 33 passengers, seven crew and four hijackers together weighed roughly 7,000 pounds. They were essentially cremated together upon impact. Hundreds of searchers who climbed the hemlocks and combed the woods for weeks were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue totaling less than 600 pounds, or about 8 percent of the total.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A56110-2002May8¬Found=true


"He (Coroner Wallace Miller) takes off his glasses, cleans them with his T-shirt. "This is the most eerie thing," he says. "I have not, to this day, seen a single drop of blood. Not a drop."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/specialreports/oneyearlater/s_90823.html


"There was just nothing visible," he says. "It was the strangest feeling." It would be nearly an hour before Miller came upon his first trace of a body part.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A56110-2002May8¬Found=true

[spooked911]

3. According to Longman, most of the remains they found were only skin,

no bones or other hard tissues? Why? Wouldn't bones survive a crash better than skin? Does this make any sense?

[undeterred]

4. Bones would survive

Tissue might be consumed in an explosion, but not ALL of it.

Regarding the number of flight attendants: It seems to me that I have been on flights with a full slate of attendants even when the plane was less than half full. There are probably certain tasks that need to be done regardless of the number of passengers, and an attendant would presumably have a schedule that was location dependent.

[John Doe II]

5. Passenger number

Maybe the question is as well:
When do you cancel a flight? What is the minimum number of passengers you need in order not to cancel it?
Remember that one hour before check-in that morning only 21 or so passengers had booked UA 93.

[spooked911]

6. Ha! Good point! And then several transferred--

if one is not conspiratorially minded, it is possible that the airline encouraged some people to transfer to this flight to fill it up?

But on the other hand, why didn't they just have the 21 people on fight 93 transfer to flight 91? Flight 93 the earlier flight.

Apparently there was some mechanical problem with flight 91, which is why people trasnsferred to flight 93.

[seatnineb]

7. Spooked,John Doe II and Zaphod......

These early reports (shown below) may be innacurate but they are interesting to observe how the story was evolving ...there and then on 9/11.....as far the number of passengers on board fl93 were concerned.......

Date Posted: 9/11/01 8:48am Subject: RE: Plane Crashes into World Trade Center
The plane that crashed outside of Pitts only had 80 some passangers.

Reports of an attack on Camp David are not true.

And GW didn't do this so shut your damn mouth


http://boards.theforce.net/Your_Jedi_Council_Community/b10008/4049615/p17


Date Posted: 9/11/01 9:04am Subject: RE: Plane Crashes into World Trade Center
Spiderdevil, the original estimate and report was about 90 people on that flight that crashed outside of Pittsburgh. However, it has since been shown that they were looking at the wrong flight. This was a coast to coast flight that was full. United Airlines flight number 93 has crashed and estimates from United Airlines itself are that it was a full flight with 421 people on board. There are no reports on survivors at this time.

http://boards.theforce.net/Your_Jedi_Council_Community/b10008/4049615/p19

[RedSock]

8. estimates from United Airlines itself

estimates from United Airlines itself are that it was a full flight with 421 people on board

********

huh.

i would think UA's estimate would be pretty accurate -- what with them having the actual flight manifests and all ...

[RedSock]

9. scrambled planes over DC

another entry:

Date Posted: 9/11/01 9:11am
There are 16 fighters scrambled over washington according to a senator via fox news.

-----

interesting.

this kind of stuff is great because we can get a sense of what was being reported right at that moment. most of us can't watch and follow 8 TVs.

[seatnineb]

10. Wierd ....I know........

Just wondering where this poster was getting his information from on 9/11/01......

Date Posted: 9/11/01 8:56am Subject: RE: Plane Crashes into World Trade Center
United Airlines just confirmed that there were over 400 people on the flight that crashed outside of Pittsburgh.

http://boards.theforce.net/Your_Jedi_Council_Community/b10008/4049615/p18

[RedSock]

11. i just noticed the times are off

the board must be set to another time zone, not NYC area time.

looks like the time listed might be 3 or 4 hours earlier. so that post might be at 11:56 am. .......

[spooked911]

12. Good find! Weird stuff there, funny too-- like, already someone was

saying this was a real terrorism, not a conspiracy-- because the Pentagon was hit! LOL.

Then there was this "the reports are still coming in but aa confirmed that the plane crash outside Camp David was a fully loaded 747 and all have been killed."

WTF???

Obviously early reports can be very erroneous, however, it is truly weird UA was saying 421 people were on that flight (UA93 apparently).

[philb]

13. Was Flight X in Cleveland really Flight 93, as one report said?

What was Flight X in Cleveland and why the secrecy about it?

http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=323

http://256.com/gray/thoughts/2001/20010912/travel_story.html

and what about the report by FAA, and repeated by Pentagon
that Fl 93 crashed or landed near Ohio/Kentucky border?
(Griffin,etc.)
apparently there was a reason that the FAA believed this?
Does this all fit with some of the alternative scenarios of what happened on 9/11?

[spooked911]

14. The idea flight 93 was in Cleveland with 200 people is obviously very

intriguing. It would fit with a plane-swap theory (the real planes were switched with remote control drones) where the passengers from flights 11, 77 and 175 were all on flight 93, and this flight 93 was disposed of somehow (shot down?)-- which is how they got rid of the passengers from all four planes.

[philb]

15. One of those was Dr. Dewdney's Operation Pearl link:

. Operation Pearl A.K. Dewdney- (Airliner Flight Takedowns/Exchange and Replacement) http://physics911.ca/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2

[WoodrowFan]

16. Good God

up to 65% of the human body is WATER. that's almost 4900 lbs right there. Even bones are 50% water. Plus there is fat, which BURNS. Given that the plane slammed into the gorund I'd say they were lucky to find 600 lbs worth of remains. Did you compare this figure to what was found after other crashes to see how many remains were found? no? why not? Because it'd disabuse you of more tin foil?


Oh, and I've been on flights with only a few people and 4-5 flight attendents. They'll work on a flight to get to another airport, or to go home.


now then, please find another hobby.

[spooked911]

17. Oh, well that settles that, doesn't it?

Maybe you could answer this though-- why were most of the remains they found just sheets of skin? What happened to the bones and intestines and muscle and so forth?

[philb]

18. What do people think of Dewdney's scenario- how it fits the evidence?

Operation Pearl A.K. Dewdney- (Airliner Flight Takedowns/Exchange and Replacement) http://physics911.ca/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2

anyone know of problems with parts of his proposed explanation for 9/11 events?

[philb]

19. Have people seen this? What do you make of it?

There is a fascinating report that Flights AA11 (originating from Logan Airport, Boston) and AA77 (originating Washington Dulles International Airport) DID NOT DEPART on September 11, 2001. This is posted by Gerard Holmgren at:

http://sydney.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=36354&group=webcast
and reposted at:
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/275927.shtml

The BTS has a website that allows one to check on scheduled departure/arrival and actual departure/arrival times for flights, by airport, airline and date. On September 11, 2001 neither American Airlines flight is logged as departing. (Details how to reach the BTS website are supplied at the indymedia websites.)

The BTS website, however, confirms that the two United Airline flights departed, UA 175 from Logan and UA93 from Newark, on 11 September 2001.

[philb]

20. Col Scott's testimony re: UA175 conflicts with other reports/evidence?

Interestingly, Col. Alan Scott (ret.) (NORAD) said in the public hearing of the 9-11 Commission last May, "United 175, the second airplane, which by the way never turned off its transponder before impact, crashes into the North Tower at 9:02."
(http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing2/9-11Commission_Hearing_2003-05-23.htm)


Didn't 175 hit South tower?
and didn't FAA give a time where transponder was turned off?


there was also talk of it changing transponder codes. What could have caused the confusion?

[Old and In the Way]

21. Lots of threads on this issue here 6 or so months ago.

One of the DU researcher's, name escapes me at the moment, did quite a few posts on this topic. search "BTS" in the archives.

Very suspicious to me. Might strange coincidence that the 2 planes on 9/11 just happen to be missing from the database that day.

[spooked911]

22. I think in general, even MIHOP people think it is very unlikely, but

it is technically possible. I guess the main problem is that the level of cover-up in landing those planes and moving the passengers secretly is hard for most people to accept.

Moreover, the flight 93 crash seemed to have TOO FEW people, not too many.