Any one watching this show about 9/11

[maxpower]

On NGEO. I am calling bullshit right now. It reminds of when Peter Jennings "proved" Lee Harvey killed Kennedy.

[SDuderstadt]

1. How is it bullshit?

And, the evidence against Oswald is overwhelming, dude.

[maxpower]

2. Apples and oranges,

They are disingenuous, in their experiments. If you believe the Warren commission and the 9/11 commission. Then I envy you.

Peace
Max

[SDuderstadt]

3. Can you be a little more specific?

How, precisely, are they being "disingenuous"?

BTW, one does not to turn to either the Warren Commission to see that Oswald killed JFK nor to the 9/11 Commission to see that 9/11 was not an "inside job".

[maxpower]

4. They are using different steel beams and other vague

experiments glossing over the facts. Just my opinion. 75% of Americans don't believe the Warren report. Even the Senate committee on assassination said it was a conspiracy.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/hscareport.htm

[maxpower]

5. Why did the 9/11 commission not have subpoena power

And why did Pres. Cheney and Bush testify in private together with no notes taken if they had nothing to hide?

[SDuderstadt]

6. Dude...

If you knew what the fuck you were talking about, you'd know the 9/11 Commission not only HAD subpoena power, they also used it.

SEC. 605. <> POWERS OF COMMISSION.

(a) In General.--
(1) Hearings and evidence.--The Commission or, on the
authority of the Commission, any subcommittee or member thereof,
may, for the purpose of carrying out this title--
(A) hold such hearings and sit and act at such times
and places, take such testimony, receive such evidence,
administer such oaths; and
(B) subject to paragraph (2)(A), require, by
subpoena or otherwise, the attendance and testimony of
such witnesses and the production of such books,
records, correspondence, memoranda, papers, and
documents, as the Commission or such designated
subcommittee or designated member may determine
advisable.
(2) Subpoenas.--
(A) Issuance.--
(i) In general.--A subpoena may be issued
under this subsection only--
(I) by the agreement of the chairman
and the vice chairman; or
(II) by the affirmative vote of 6
members of the Commission.
(ii) Signature.--Subject to clause (i),
subpoenas issued under this subsection may be
issued under the signature of the chairman or any
member designated by a majority of the Commission,
and may be served by any person designated by the
chairman or by a member designated by a majority
of the Commission.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/about/107-306.title6.htm

http://standdown.net/911commissionsubpoenasfaa.htm#newsday

As far as Bush and Cheney are concerned, did you know that neither Gore nor Clinton testified under oath either, dude? Can you think of reasons that might be?

[maxpower]

8. Again apples and oranges

A terrible attack on the WTC happened a month after Clinton was in office, the people who were responsible were brought to justice. Bush promised evidence that Bin Laden was responsible.....still waiting.

[SDuderstadt]

10. Dude...

bin laden claimed responsibility for 9/11.

[maxpower]

60. When?

N/t

[SDuderstadt]

106. Start here, dude....

http://www.911myths.com/html/fake_video.html

[maxpower]

107. Is that the end all be all of 9/11 sites

I don't use the internet, i trust what I read and my gut.

[SDuderstadt]

113. "I don't use the internet"

Okay, this HAS to be the most unintentionally ironic post of quite some time.

[maxpower]

139. I was paraphrasing

I don't look up CT websites. Obviously genius I use the internet.

[SDuderstadt]

How is that a "paraphrase"?

You "paraphrased" yourself?

[greyl]

114. Truthiness

Mark Smith, ladies and gentlemen of the press corps, Madame First Lady, Mr. President, my name is Stephen Colbert, and tonight it is my privilege to celebrate this president, ‘cause we're not so different, he and I. We both get it. Guys like us, we're not some brainiacs on the nerd patrol. We're not members of the factinista. We go straight from the gut. Right, sir?

That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. Now, I know some of you are going to say, "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works.

Every night on my show, The Colbert Report, I speak straight from the gut, okay? I give people the truth, unfiltered by rational argument. I call it the "No Fact Zone." FOX News, I hold a copyright on that term.

I'm a simple man with a simple mind. I hold a simple set of beliefs that I live by. Number one, I believe in America. I believe it exists. My gut tells me I live there. I feel that it extends from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and I strongly believe it has 50 states, and I cannot wait to see how the Washington Post spins that one tomorrow.
From: Stephen Colbert at the White House Correspondents' Dinner
Transcript of Colbert's Presidential Smackdown

[maxpower]

130. Watch it

I got called out on calling Sdude a Bush apologist. Now you've heart my feelings. It is amazing that so many here claim to hate Bush but believe his story about 9/11.

[SDuderstadt]

195. Dude...you just fucking did it again....

one doesn't have to "believe Bush" to see through your bullshit. When you finally take that Logic class, make sure the instructor spends extra time on the "false dilemma" fallacy with you.

[maxpower]

203. It's not my bullshit Dude

It's the Bush admins bullshit. It seems you do believe his bullshit. Can you please SDuderstadt, suggest a logic lesson that would allow me to believe the bullshit that is being hurled.

[SDuderstadt]

208. Dude...I have said repeatedly that one does not have to "believe Bush" to...

take issue with your absolute bullshit. I seriously suggest that you drop this line of "debating".

[maxpower]

206. Someone is getting a bit sensitive

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.

[SDuderstadt]

211. It's not "feelings", dude...

you're using an absolutely despicable debate "tactic". I have repeatedly asked you politely to stop the smears. I don't know why you knowingly continue.

[maxpower]

213. I never said that and I'd appreciate it if you would stop

accusing me of something I have not done.

[maxpower]

120. I believe that is a fake video

I read the website and seen the comparison, doesn't hold water.

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maxpower]

132. OK I was mistaken

I will admit it. But you are sure sounding more and more like an apologist.

[SDuderstadt]

199. Dude...one last time...

drop the "apologist" smear. Seriously.

[maxpower]

207. I never said you were an apologist

And please for the last time stop putting words in my mouth.

[vincent_vega_lives]

299. apologist

as if understanding physics and science makes you a Bush political lacky. This sounds like something from the dark ages where science was heresy against the church.

In fact Truthers sound more and more like disciples of some wacky religion. Faith and belief in truth over reason. The creationist like rationality of the conspiracy and dogma of truthers themselves.

[SDuderstadt]

9. Dude...

you're talking about the HSCA. Do you really think the House of Representatives is the Senate? Did you also know that the HSCA said there was no doubt that Oswald shot JFK? Why did you leave that out? Do you agree with the HSCA's conclusion? Do you also know that the HSCA said that JFK was "likely" assassinated as the result of a conspiracy? Do you know what the word "likely" means?

[maxpower]

11. Yes I do

Again I don't believe the official story. Answer the question..who ordered the stand down?

[SDuderstadt]

14. Dude...prove there WAS a standdown....n/t

[maxpower]

16. Where were the jets?

This is some of the most protected air space in America. Four planes hijacked and no planes scrambled. That must make you sleep well at night. 7 of the alleged hijackers are still alive.

[SDuderstadt]

19. Dude...as I already pointed out...

fighters WERE scrambled out of Otis and Langley. Pay attention.

Otis to the WTC
The first base to finally scramble interceptors was Otis in Falmouth, Massachusetts, at 8:52, about a half-hour after Flight 11 was taken over. This was already eight minutes after Flight 11 hit the North Tower, and just 9 minutes before Flight 175 hit the South Tower.

According to NORAD, at the time of the South Tower Impact the two F-15s from Otis were still 71 miles away. Otis is 153 miles east-northeast of the WTC. That means the F-15s were flying at: (153 miles - 71 miles)/(9:03 - 8:52) = 447 mph
That is around 23.8% of their top speed of 1875 mph.
At 9:11 the F-15s finally reached the World Trade Center. Their average speed for the trip was: 153/(9:11 - 8:52) = 483 mph
That is around 25.8% of their top speed.

Langley to the Pentagon
The F-16s from Langley reached the Pentagon at 9:49. It took them 19 minutes to reach Washington D.C. from Langley AFB, which is about 130 miles to the south. That means the F-16s were flying at: 130 miles/(9:49 - 9:30) = 410.5 mph
That is around 27.4% of their top speed of 1500 mph.

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/norad/

Now, before you start huffing and puffing about why fighters were scrambled from Otis and Langley, rather than Andrews, since Andrews was closer, save yourself some embarrassment and look up the differences between ANG bases that were "on alert" (like Langley and Otis) and ANG bases that were merely "combat ready" (like Andrews).

Dude, do you know anything on your own about 9/11 or just what you've read on CT websites?


Could you also provide some proof of your claim that "This is some of the most protected air space in America"?

[maxpower]

22. Obviously you are correct

I guess all the evidence is moot and you have vindicated the Bush administration. Congrats.

[SDuderstadt]

25. I am not "vindicating" the Bush administration, dude...

BTW, I consider that a backhanded way of accusing me of being a RWer, dude. I'm going to ask you politely one time to stop.

I DESPISED the Bush administration and sincerely hope that Bush and Cheney are indicted, prosecuted and convicted. But it won't be for planning and executing 9/11, dude. Just because I take issue with your goody theories and CT nonsense, doesn't mean I'm a Bush supporter. Again, I'll ask you to kindly refrain from such a smear and confine your part of this "debate" to the facts? Okay?

P.S. If you refuse, I'm sure you'll have no problem with me calling you a "bin Laden sympathizer", right? Turnabout being fair play and all that?

[maxpower]

29. I am not calling you a right winger

And I apologize if that is what you think.Read the eyewitness reports. The ones who were there speak volumes. No George Bush the smarter helped create Bin Laden, he would be the sympathizer. Have you bothered to look at the link between the Bushes and the Bin Ladens? Another convenient coincidence I guess.

[SDuderstadt]

35. Yeah, I have, dude...

bin Laden has a big family. Most of them have no connection to his activities.

I've read many, if not most of the eyewitness accounts. You might want to pay particularly close attention to the eyewitnesses who described the hijackers, the eyewitnesses who saw the jets slam into the WTC and the Pentagon, as well as the FDNY personnel who predicted WTC 7 would collapse due to the fires. You also might want to ask yourself why President Obama and former President Clinton both says that 9/11 was NOT an inside job.

You don't suppose they were both "in on it" too, do you?

[maxpower]

39. Why did the FBI seize all the surveillance video?

That showed what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11. Why did Bush sit there for over ten minutes knowing we were under attack.

[SDuderstadt]

46. Why do you think, dude?

Do you know what the FBI does? Why WOULDN'T they seize evidence of the attacks? Do you honestly think that's REMOTELY suspicious?

Bush sat there for over ten minutes (actually, I think it was closer to 7) BECAUSE HE'S A FUCKING IDIOT!! I also think it was beginning to sink in that the election he basically stole meant that he actually had to deal with this mess.

[maxpower]

69. I would think that after 8 years

They would use it to disprove wackos like me. But for national security reasons they need to be kept from us. God forbid they show the people what happened that day. They tried to suppress the Zapruder film for the same reasons right. And for you to claim there is no correlation between 9/11 and JFK makes me suspect your motives.

[wildbilln864]

73. They may be holding it back until....

and in case the truth movement actually gets close to getting a real investigation. Then they can say, "See, here's the actual plane that hit the pentagon. Now forget all those outrageous loony inside job theories. Pretty slick, huh.

[SDuderstadt]

111. Dude.,.

how in the fuck is there a correlation between the JFK asassination and 9/11?

Amd, specifically, how do you "suspect my motives"? Dude... I simply don't believe any of the bullshit you do. And for you to "question my motives" sounds awfully suspicious like some sort of veiled accusation. Why do I keep arguing facts when you keep trying to argue motivation? Why don't you spell this out, dude. This is getting tiring. You can't win the debate on the facts (especially when you get everything wrong), so you start attacking my motivation? How despicable.

[KDLarsen]

301. Are you assuming that every single camera cought the plane?

Because according to the agent that reviewed it, that wasn't the case at all: http://www.flight77.info/85videos.php

And I wouldn't be surprised that if a tape did appear, that showed flight 77 from the beginning of the descending 360 degree turn right until it crashed into the Pentagon, truthers would be crying foul and fake anyway...

[hack89]

303. Why would they care about wackos like you?

why do you even think they are aware of you? Do you think Obama cares or thinks about the Birthers?

[wildbilln864]

71. and then W went on with a meeting and a photo op at the school....

totaling over 25 minutes after being told that America was under attack. How'd they know they'd be safe? :think: How'd they know a plane wasn't heading right for them at that very moment from the airport in Sarasota? Supposedly, they didn't know how many planes would be hijacked.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KDLarsen]

302. Because a generic looking school building

Is just as distinguishable as Air Force One sitting on the tarmac.. :eyes:

[maxpower]

91. Of course the "hijackers" know about this

http://www.wanttoknow.info/050317wargames911
And took advantage. Have you read or seen any of Sibel Edmonds testimony? Probably not, it kind of blows holes in the 9/11 myth

[SDuderstadt]

117. Actually, I HAVE read her testimony....

Did you read the part where she talks about the actual attacks?

[maxpower]

143. Yup

I did

[maxpower]

141. You're right

Washington DC has no protected airspace. Thanks for pointing that out.

[SDuderstadt]

198. Protected by what, dude? n/t

[maxpower]

209. Airspace=airplanes

Sorry you couldn't figure that out with that superior intellect of yours.

[SDuderstadt]

214. What are you yammering about now? n/t

[maxpower]

220. Thanks for correcting me again

Washington DC has no protected airspace what so ever. I'm sure I could fly in and sight see the capital without being escorted by the air force.

[SDuderstadt]

223. Dude...

airlines fly right over the Pentagon everyday. Duh.

[maxpower]

225. Thanks for proving my point

I appreciate it.

[SDuderstadt]

236. How does that "prove your point"?

Dude...you do realize that the Pentagon lays directly in the approach to National Airport, right? Why aren't airliners routinely shot down, then?

[maxpower]

240. Because, genius, they don't turn off their transponders

Like the alleged planes on 9/11 did.

[SDuderstadt]

266. "alleged planes"???

Dude..I know I should have insisted on an answer to my question earlier.

Are you a "no-planer"?

[maxpower]

274. Pentagon no plane

The others plane, go back and read the posts.

[SDuderstadt]

276. Thanks....

goodbye.

[maxpower]

146. What took them so long

I thought they would be scramble as soon a plane was declared hijacked.

[SDuderstadt]

200. Dude...why don't you educate yourself...

instead of staying in the dark? If you don't know these things, then upon what basis do you claim there was a "standdown"?

[maxpower]

212. It seems to me there was a stand down

But your vaunted 9/11 commission report never mentioned it, so it never happened. My pet goat has more information in it than that waste of paper.

[maxpower]

222. I could say the same about you

But of course you have all the answers, no need for more education.

[SDuderstadt]

226. Dude...you have been corrected on the facts repeatedly...

for example you claimed the 9/11 Commission did not have subpoena power. Why should we take you seriously when you have so little regard for the truth?

[maxpower]

228. One mistake

What I meant to say was why did Bush and Cheney have to sit together and answer question off the record. Of course they had nothing to hide, otherwise it would have been under oath and recorded.

[SDuderstadt]

234. Dude...you have made repeated mistakes....

don't play games.

[maxpower]

237. Sorry Mr. Perfect

But I don't rely on a bullshit website to base my argument on.

[SDuderstadt]

244. Dude...could you please quit pretending you know where I get my information...

from?

[maxpower]

250. If you stop claiming to know where I get my info from

Open a book.

[SDuderstadt]

253. Dude...this is probably your most incoherent post yet....n/t

[maxpower]

264. And yours have been crystal clear

Sarcasm off

[SDuderstadt]

268. Far more so than yours, dude...

again...are you a "no-planer"?

[maxpower]

273. Based on the opinion of the genuis of Du

[SDuderstadt]

278. Well...

from one "genuis" to another, goodbye. Thanks for admitting you're a "no-planer". That explains much of tonight.

[maxpower]

282. You said nuch in your sentence

Obviously that makes your point moot.

[vincent_vega_lives]

300. have all the answers

its called research. Study. Becoming informed. You should try it sometime.

[maxpower]

17. I can't because conviently

They were having a drill on 9/11 how did they know. Another convenient coincidence for Bush.
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?before_9/11=militaryExercises&timeline=complete_911_timeline

[SDuderstadt]

21. Dude...

the military has drills and exercises nearly everyday. But you knew that already, right?

More importantly, can you prove that any drills that day in any way prevented a response to the attack?

Actually, I can probably save us both some time here by invoking "Lared's Rule". Are you a "no-planer"?

[maxpower]

115. But how did they know about this particular drill

Have you seen the the Sibel Edmond's testimony. Why did W keep her silent all of those years. She kind of helps the wackos like me, because she names names. But of course that is not on your website you keep posting,

[SDuderstadt]

119. Who says they did, dude? n/t

[maxpower]

127. Coincidence again I guess

Man the Bush family draws them like flies.

[SDuderstadt]

135. Dude....

it would be hard to pick a day to attack when the military is NOT running a drill or an exercise. Do you think they just sit around waiting for someone to attack us?

[maxpower]

145. This drill in particular

Was about flying planes into the WTC have you listened to the ATC on that day?

[SDuderstadt]

162. Dude...it was a "desktop" exercise....

do you know what that means?

[wildbilln864]

164. you know damn well

it was more than that! :eyes:

[SDuderstadt]

171. Prove it, Bill...n/t

[maxpower]

187. You sure like to make people prove things

Bill check the website Sdude keeps posting maybe it can be disputed there.

[SDuderstadt]

201. Dude...why do you have such a problem being asked for proof...

of your claims?

[maxpower]

227. I don't have the proof

Because of national security. The information you cling to is only what the government wants you to have.

[SDuderstadt]

229. Dude...prove I got it "from the government"...

On top of that, if you don't have "proof", upon what are you basing your conclusions?

[maxpower]

238. You believe the 9/11 report

That is a government report.

[SDuderstadt]

247. Dude...

You don't know what the fuck I believe, so stop pretending you do. Secondly, I have cited many sources. Unless you believe 911myths.com is a "government report", your claim is pretty stupid. Moreover, do you even know how the 9/11 Commission was set up? Are you claiming that Bush controlled it? Would that be the same 9/11 Commission that considered having the Pentagon and the FAA charged with obstruction of justice? Would that be the same Commission whose chairman stated the 9/11 attacks could have been prevented? Does that sound like a commission beholden to Bush to you?

Most important question. Have you actually READ the 9/11 Commission Report?

[maxpower]

254. Yeah

Made me ill. And what exactly has become of their suggestions. Don't fucking tell me what I believe or know. They said all of those things and did nothing to follow up. So it was basically a waste of time and money from the word go.

[SDuderstadt]

257. Dude....how could the 9/11 Commission implement their own recommendations?

That would be up to the Executive and Legislative branches who, BTW, HAVE implemented a number of the recommendations.

Two questions: If, as you claim, you actually read the 9/11 Commission Report, could you tell us what recommendations they made? And, do you have the foggiest notion how our system actually works?

[maxpower]

155. Who says they didn't

Look and the USSR v Afghanistan war. We created him. And Bush sure used him when he need a lift domestically.

[maxpower]

224. Who says they didn't

You have all the answers please enlighten me.

[maxpower]

12. Of course our government would never do anything to harm us

I love my country, but I don't trust the government. Ever read PNAC?

[SDuderstadt]

15. Yeah, I've read it...

do you really expect us to believe that the "perps" would advertise their plot ahead of time?


What's your record now? 0 for 4?

[maxpower]

7. Remember when Payne Stewarts plane

lost contact with air traffic control. Two jets accompanied his plain until it crashed. Where we the jets on 9/11, who ordered the stand down?

[SDuderstadt]

13. Dude...

you're like a walking CT website. Do you read anything except CT nonsense? Have you fact-checked whatever you've read or heard? You did know that fighters WERE scrambled out of Otis and Langley bases that day?

Do you have any idea how long it took for the jet(s) to reach Stewart's plane and do you know where they were when they were asked to intercept? Again, do you bother to fact-check the CT nonsense you read?

http://www.911myths.com/html/payne_stewart.html

[maxpower]

18. Bush was warned on 8/6

And chose to ignore it. Who benefited the most from 9/11?

[SDuderstadt]

23. I would say bin Laden benefited the most from 9/11, dude...

if you're going to pull that "cui bono" crap, you do realize that it's not enough to consider who may have benefited, right? The next step would be to develop actual evidence that a particular suspect committed the crime, otherwise, everytime a crime was committed, the police would just go arrest anyone who had a motive. Pretty stupid, huh...

[maxpower]

26. Read PNAC

And realize Bush got all he wanted. He was planning on invading Iraq before he was selected president. 9/11 gave him the opportunity.

[SDuderstadt]

28. Then why didn't he plant WMD in Iraq, dude?

You do understand the difference between correlation and causality, right?

[maxpower]

33. They tried

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0413-02.htm
Of course this isn't one of your websites so obviously it is bullshit right.

[SDuderstadt]

37. Let me make sure I get this straight...

you're asking us to believe that the Bush administration actually DID plant WMD in Iraq, then couldn't find them? Does that remotely make sense to you?

[maxpower]

41. They were caught doing it

Look it up at your reputable websites.

[SDuderstadt]

48. Jesus, dude...

your "source" is the Iranian news Agency. Think about that for a minute. Then reread your source and show us where it says anything besides people suspecting something. Can you show me anywhere in the article where anyone was caught actually doing anything?

[wildbilln864]

77. actually I think they operatives were killed by

friendly fire IIRC. You sure miss a lot sdude!

[maxpower]

83. I remember that wildbill

Of course it didn't make it into the liberal media.

[SDuderstadt]

121. WTF are you yammering about now, Bill? n/t

[wildbilln864]

128. stuff your bright mind missed I guess!

nt

[wildbilln864]

137. This...

linky :hi:

[SDuderstadt]

148. Larisa Alexandrovna and "Raw Story"....

I should have known. Let me ask you a question, Bill. Are you concerned at all about her heavy reliance on "unnamed sources"? Can you find anyone else who corroborates what she claims?

[wildbilln864]

151. Like you said sduders....

I don't care what you believe. Not trying to convince you. Believe what ever you want. :shrug:

[SDuderstadt]

156. Dude...you notice, of course, that my sources don't...

rely on "unnamed sources", right?

[wildbilln864]

161. of course!

:eyes:

[maxpower]

163. Of course Seymour Hersh doesn't name sources

So I guess all the stories he broke don't matter either right?

[SDuderstadt]

170. Dude...

I know Seymour Hersh. Seymour Hersh is a friend of mine. Trust me, dude. Larisa Alexandranova is no Seymour Hersh.

[maxpower]

174. Name dropper too

Ask him about 9/11 and let me know what he thinks

[SDuderstadt]

178. It was a JOKE, dude...

Remember LLoyd Bentsen debating Dan Quayle and Quayle invoked John Kennedy?

By the way, since you brought up Hersh, why doesn't HE thnk 9/11 was an inside job?

[maxpower]

181. Prove that he doesn't

Balls in your court

[SDuderstadt]

186. Dude...now you're demanding I prove a negative?

Have you ever studied Logic?

You can falsify my claim simply by finding a single example of where Hersh has claimed 9/11 was an inside job. How hard could that be?

[maxpower]

190. You've been asking me to do the same thing

Most of the night.

[SDuderstadt]

196. Really?

Point to specific example then. Do you know what "being asked to prove a negative" actually means? If so, show me where I EVER did that.

[wildbilln864]

197. perhaps he's never expressed his opinion about it...

publicly! :eyes:

[SDuderstadt]

202. Dude...he's the premier investigative journalist of his time...

please.

[wildbilln864]

210. ooooo!

please!

[maxpower]

216. No that's you

You have all the answers. I am mixing my kool aid right now.

[maxpower]

230. Your point?

[wildbilln864]

192. Oh man!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[wildbilln864]

42. And OJ was innocent of the murders, right? nt

:rofl:

[maxpower]

49. That too

He was in on 9/11 too, I'm sure it is sighted on the website that he keeps posting.

[wildbilln864]

51. Oh man....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[SDuderstadt]

50. We're not talking about O.J., dude...

only you would think you're actually making some kind of argument there, Bill.

[wildbilln864]

52. by your standards, OJ's innocent!

and yes we're talking about him now. :rofl:

[maxpower]

56. Thanks for the help Bro.

This guy claims not to trust Bush, but believes this BS.

[SDuderstadt]

61. Dude....I'm going to ask you politely one last time to quit implying that...

I "trust Bush". Your little smear is not working. It's also monumentally stupid to claim that one would have to "trust Bush" to claim your goofy 9/11 claims are total bullshit.

Again, you can stop the "you trust Bush" smears, dude. It's despicable.

[maxpower]

70. Me thinks thou dost protest too much

N/T

[SDuderstadt]

125. Methinks you keep insinuating I'm a RWer too much...

dude.

[wildbilln864]

133. I don't see where he did that. nt

[maxpower]

136. If the shoe fits

[SDuderstadt]

154. Hysterical....

first you claim that you think I "doth protest too much", then you turn around and say something stupid like "if the shoes fits". Dude, you just admitted you WERE insinuating I'm a RWer. Did you notice that?

[maxpower]

166. Yeah I did

Read the next post as well.

[maxpower]

152. Guilty conscience

I never said that you keep bringing it up.

[SDuderstadt]

175. Dude...

i'll ask you politely one last time to drop the smears.

[maxpower]

179. You're reading into it

Your are astute

[SDuderstadt]

182. No, I'm not, dude...

You've admitted "suspecting my motives", claimed I "trust Bush", etc, etc.

[maxpower]

193. I can't prove it

But you like the official story

[SDuderstadt]

217. No, dude..

I dislike your unsubstantiated bullshit.

[maxpower]

243. Cry me a river

I dislike your unsubstantiated bullshit. Oh wait you have a website to prove your facts. Sorry.

[maxpower]

218. Your motives are clear

I don't suspect anything. You bought the 9/11 story hook, line, and sinker. What does that say about you? Go ahead and put words in my mouth, I'm a big boy I can take it. It won't bother me at all.

[SDuderstadt]

221. Dude...

"You bought the 9/11 story hook, line, and sinker". This is the last time I'm warning you. Your choice.

[maxpower]

245. Stop scaring me

Deny you bought the story, you have been defending it all night. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

[SDuderstadt]

252. Dude...please show me where I have "defended the official story"...

this is just another one of your despicable "debate tactics". I have asked you repeatedly and politely to quit trying to tie me to the Bush administration.

[maxpower]

256. You have not disputed one fact

spewed by the report or the admin. And the irony of you signature line is not lost on me.

[SDuderstadt]

261. Dude...

I've been responding to your bullshit all night. Whoever said that a prerequisite for responding to your OP included "disputing one fact" from the Report? And, if it's a fact, why would I dispute it?

[maxpower]

277. You chimed in

I didn't ask nor do I care for your opinions.

[SDuderstadt]

279. You posted an OP, dude...

you don't get to decide who responds.

[Name removed]

289. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

288. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maxpower]

262. What the hell are you going to do

I know this will be the last time I come to this forum. One Bush apologist is too many. And yeah the burden of proof makes me think that you are an apologist. Your posts prove it.

[maxpower]

233. Why does it bother you

You seem to go out of your way to defend their account of 9/11

[SDuderstadt]

241. Jesus, dude...

the problem here is no matter what someone says, you claim it is Bush and Cheney's account of 9/11. What bullshit.

[maxpower]

246. The buck stops here

Read your history professor, his name was Harry Truman. Ultimately, it all falls in their lap.

[SDuderstadt]

249. Really? How about for the ASCE BPAT?

Is that their work too?

[maxpower]

258. I've read it

Of course because you post it, it is gospel.

[SDuderstadt]

259. You didn't read the ASCE BPAT, dude...

please don't pretend you did.

[maxpower]

287. Don't pretend to tell me what I've read

I read all that bullshit in 02-03. Sorry I haven't kept up with the Bush Cheney account of the "official" story.

[SDuderstadt]

290. Now you're claiming Bush and Cheney wrote the BPAT?

Amazing.

[Name removed]

292. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wildbilln864]

79. you said that, not me. I made an observation as to your faulty logic. nt

[maxpower]

80. I wasn't referring to you wildbill

Sdude keeps accusing me of calling him a Bush appologist

[wildbilln864]

85. sorry man, replied to the wrong post. nt

[maxpower]

92. No worries bro

[wildbilln864]

89. see posts 79 and 85 sduders.

[wildbilln864]

66. No probs man...

Can you say "cognitive dissonance"? :rofl:

[SDuderstadt]

67. We should make this a "fair fight"...

maybe you and Bill could go get about ten more "truthers".

[maxpower]

97. And you can get ten

Sheeple who believe Bush/Cheney's account of the incident.

[wildbilln864]

101. sorry dude but that's "sheople".

just kidding! :rofl:

[maxpower]

108. Sorry wildbill

You caught me. Peace

[SDuderstadt]

126. There you go again, dude....

implying I believe Bush and Cheney. Do you really believe that they are the source of all info about 9/11?

[maxpower]

235. That's where I would start my investigation

But the administrations story is the official account.

[SDuderstadt]

255. Dude...what you call the "official account" is pulled together from literally...

thousands of different sources. Labeling it the "administration's story" is just another way of you trying to win the debate by "psychic foreclosure" and the "genetic fallacy". It's not serving you well. We try to argue facts; you keep yammering, "You're defending Bush!". You don't think people notice?

[maxpower]

260. You know what

You've convinced me. 9/11 was pulled off by 12 Saudi's. Keep playing lawyer ball. I'm game.

[SDuderstadt]

263. Dude...

you can't even get the number of Saudis right.

So, tell me. What's your alternative theory of 9/11? Please be specific.

[maxpower]

265. Sorry 7 are still alive

Look it up genius.

[SDuderstadt]

270. Oh, for crying out loud...

do you really believe that? Are you still claiming you don't get this nonsense from CT websites?

[maxpower]

281. Obviously any site I post is a CT website

I maintain that bullshit website of yours is just that bullshit. But of course you have the moral high ground because you believe the story without question. I pity you.

[SDuderstadt]

284. And you're a "no-planer"...

I rest my case.

[maxpower]

291. Great closing argument

Counselor, you must have watched a lot of Perry Mason as a child.

[SDuderstadt]

296. Bzzt, wrong answer, Hans...

http://www.911myths.com/html/still_alive.html

Wasn't "Die Hard" a great movie?

[maxpower]

297. Yes it was

Even though Bruce Willis is a repub.

[maxpower]

280. I don't have time to explain

To a close minded kool aid drinking believer. No matter what I say, you will dispute it. Why waste my time. I wasted way to much time arguing with an apologist...there I said it. I hope I didn't hurt you feelings.

[greyl]

90. Help?

Help with what? Are you pushing a point of view, or trying to learn?

[wildbilln864]

94. Personally I am...

pushing the point of view that we've been lied to and must have the whole truth. IMHO of course! :hi:

[greyl]

100. It's obvious you don't spend your time seriously investigating all the info available

Someone who cares about being lied to wouldn't be wallowing in counter-factual, dishonest, illogical information.
You'd be helping yourself a lot by becoming familiar with the rules logic.

[wildbilln864]

104. I could spend the rest of my days....

reading speculation from a bunch of apologists and sheep if I wanted. But I'd rather see an investigation. :shrug: That's just me.

[maxpower]

109. Dammit Bill

You beat me too it. Just kidding

[wildbilln864]

112. sorry man.

:smoke:

[SDuderstadt]

129. Who are you accusing of being an "apologist", Bill? n/t

[maxpower]

173. Acccording to you

Just because you believe it's the truth doesn't make it so.

[maxpower]

96. I am seeking truth

The government is hiding it from us.

[SDuderstadt]

131. The Obama government?

Really?

[maxpower]

251. Must be hard to keep moving the goal posts

[SDuderstadt]

271. What government are you referring to? n/t

[maxpower]

283. Use your mind

Our government

[SDuderstadt]

286. So, you ARE talking about the Obama government...

thanks for clarifying that.

[maxpower]

293. Let's look forward and not back

I worked my ass of to get him elected. I am a little disappointed he is not investigating your boys.

[maxpower]

168. Nope I feel like I am arguing with a bag of sand

[SDuderstadt]

189. Well, dude...

get some actual facts and you won't feel that way.

[maxpower]

248. If what you refer to as facts...no thanks

[SDuderstadt]

58. Show me where I've ever claimed "OJ was innocent", dude...

Nice strawman. Of course, you have to do that because you and Maxpower sure as hell ain't wining this debate.

[maxpower]

72. Of course not

Bush had nothing to hide that is why he was so up front with the truth

[maxpower]

103. Of course you are

Call Lee Hamilton and tell him to reopen to investigation. By your standards if anyone who doesn't agree with the official record is wrong. Man I need to rethink all I learned in college and graduate school.

[SDuderstadt]

138. Read your middle "sentence"...

you might want to take some refresher courses in grammar.

[maxpower]

169. Again I bow to your superior knowledge

I didn't realize this was a grammar test. I will make sure to proof read everything I post. I don't want to offend your delicate sensibilities.

[SDuderstadt]

205. Dude...your middle sentence was...

totally incoherent.

[wildbilln864]

215. it says...

he'll be sure and proof read from now on! are you okay? :shrug:

[maxpower]

294. Maybe I type to fast

Sorry Mr. Perfect. I didn't realize that grammar was a prerequisite on this site. Obviously open mindedness isn't either.

[SDuderstadt]

295. Dude....open-mindedness relies upon evidence and proof....

yet, you kept sputtering everytime it was asked of you. Do you really think open-mindedness requires giving equal weight to bullshit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

Enjoy!

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maxpower]

158. You didn't answer the question

Why did Bush ignore the warning on 8/6?

[SDuderstadt]

165. Because he's a fucking idiot, dude...

How many times do I have to say it?

[wildbilln864]

172. So much of an idiot....

That he was pres for two terms,
was able to start two wars over a pack of lies and get away with it,
order torture and get away with it,
lie to us and congress and get away with it,
pretend to testify about 9/11 and get away with it,
make all his "base" richer.
What a lucky idiot he is! :eyes:

[SDuderstadt]

176. Well, now you have something to aspire to, Bill....n/t

[wildbilln864]

185. once again....

the childish desperation shines through in your post! :eyes: congratulations!

[SDuderstadt]

191. More unintentional irony, Bill?

Do you think your overreliance on "smileys" is adult?

[wildbilln864]

194. they're emoticons! they help express a feeling.

in case you didn't know.

[maxpower]

24. And of course WTC 7 was brought down by planes

as well. So you read the myths and of course they have more sway than the CT sites you claim I go too, which I don't. Why all the secrecy. Look at the people on the commission, why was less spent investigating 9/11 than on Bill Clinton?

[SDuderstadt]

27. Dude...add up the costs of all the 9/11 investigations...

and WTC 7 was brought done by unfought fires, dude.

As far as the "people on the commission", you do realize that the Democrats on the Commission (Hamilton, Gorelick, Kerrey, Ben-Veniste and Roemer) were chosen by the Democratic leadership pf the House and Senate, right?

[maxpower]

31. Dude this is going nowhere

You obviously have all the answers. Why are your websites more credible than any other? Have you read the eyewitness accounts??

[SDuderstadt]

38. For the last fucking time, I HAVE read the eyewitness accounts...

Let's try a different tack. Can you identify all the eyewitnesses who believe 9/11 was an "inside job"?

[maxpower]

40. No I can't

Can you name all the people who believe the official story?

[SDuderstadt]

54. Dude...can you name a SINGLE eyewitness that believes...

"9/11 was an inside job"? Shouldn't there be a lot of them?

[maxpower]

55. No I can't I read the accounts

Let me check your website and get back to you.

[wildbilln864]

204. william rodriguez. nt

[maxpower]

34. If you trust Lee Hamilton he cleared the Reagan

administration of any wrong doing in Iran Contra. As for a WTC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100.

[SDuderstadt]

57. You mean the same Reagan Administration in which...

14 officials were charged with crimes and 11 were convicted? That Reagan administration?

[maxpower]

105. Sorry it is not

He was a patsy. Why did Ruby, who had mob ties, shoot him? Patriotic zeal?

[SDuderstadt]

140. Prove that Ruby had "mob ties", dude..

BTW, weren't you touting the HSCA a while back? They said that Oswald shout JFK. Or, did you miss that?

[maxpower]

20. Have you bothered to read eyewitness accounts

of the day. Including firefighter who heard the explosions from below? Of course they were lying too. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I'm right.

[SDuderstadt]

30. Yeah, I've read every one of them...

Are you surprised that buildings that are on fire have explosions of office contents? Do explosions = explosives?

Can you find a single controlled demolition expert that believes the Towers were brought down by controlled demolition? I mean, even Danny Jowenko, who thinks WTC 7 was a controlled demo, says that he believes the Towers were not. Not looking too good for your side here, huh...

[maxpower]

32. Why all the thermite then?

And why did Guliani ship all the evidence away before it could be examined? Why did so many witnesses, including police and firefighters say they heard the explosions from below before the building collapsed. And judging bu the way they came down why not just fly planes into building that need to come down. How was the head of the company in charge of security at the WTC? So many coincidences with the Bushes. Such a star crossed family. I truly feel for Poppy.

[SDuderstadt]

43. Dude....if you're talking about the stupid...

"Bush's brother, Marvin, headed the company that provided security for the WTC" nonsense, it proves you don't fact-check anything. First of all, the Port Authority provided security for the WTC, not the company Bush's brother was associated with. Secondly, his term as a director expired the year before 9/11.

http://www.911myths.com/html/stratesec.html

What are you now? 0 for 9? 0 for 10? You know what the problem is? You want to be able to pin 9/11 on Bush so badly, that you ignore the absolute lack of concrete evidence for it and don't remotely bother to fact-check the nonsense you read. Do you really think if 9/11 was an "inside job", Presidents Obama and Clinton would go around saying it wasn't? Is it possible for you to consider that all this "9/11 was an inside job" bullshit deflects attention away from all the shit Bush actually DID pull? How many blind alleys do you have to go up before you drop this nonsense?

[maxpower]

47. I bow to your superior knowledge

You keep sighting the same source. Of course that is the end all be all of 9/11 right? That trumps all other information right?

[greyl]

62. You can educate yourself on the topic, ya know.

It's obvious you've been exposed to some CT theories that sound tasty, but you owe it to yourself to research their veracity. There is way more bullshit on the Internet about 9/11 than their is quality fact checking, evidence presentation, and sober analysis.

What you call a single source cited by SDude is actually a repository of resources - plenty of links to the "best arguments" from CT sites are included.

[SDuderstadt]

144. Do you know the difference between...

"sighting" and "citing"? I'm having even more trouble taking you seriously now.

[maxpower]

44. I bow to your superior knowledge

I guess Bush was right for going after Saddam instead of Bin Laden. Of course Afghanistan offered him up if the U.S could produce any evidence that he had anything to do with 9/11. But then who could they scare America with, when is was politically expedient.

[SDuderstadt]

150. Now you trust the Taliban?

Really?

And, for the record, Bush was wrong to invade Iraq.

[maxpower]

59. And of course firefighters

Couldn't tell an explosion from below right. I hope they open a new investigation and call you as their first witness. Make sure you bring your laptop so you can show them your website to open and shut the case.

[SDuderstadt]

63. Dude...tell me something...

the FDNY lost over 300 of their colleagues that day. Can you tell me how many of the survivors believe 9/11 was "an inside job"?

[maxpower]

75. No I can't

If I had a chance to talk to them I might.

[SDuderstadt]

167. Dude....

there's no way to tell without talking to them directly?

[SDuderstadt]

153. You mean the same website that relies heavily in part on the...

FDNY?

[maxpower]

177. Show me another example

Of a steel frame building falling due to fire.

[SDuderstadt]

180. Jesus...

show me another building designed and constructed like WTC 7 and the Twin Towers and subjected to the exact same stress. What a stupid challenge.

[AZCat]

183. There are plenty of examples.

The Kader Toy Factory, for example.

But a more interesting question is "why do you think we need previous failures to validate this one?" The WTC towers were unique structures, and their responses to aircraft impact and fire were dependent on their uniqueness.

[wildbilln864]

45. Oh you're right my man....

and thank you. :hi:

[maxpower]

53. Apparently everything I have said can be refuted

by the 9/11 truth website. I'm sure there is not and obfuscation on that site. Who needed the 9/11 report all the information is contained at that site.

[greyl]

64. Amazing, isn't it? Thank the 9/11 Truth Industry for spamming your head with BS.

It's nothing you can't make a full recovery from, really.

[maxpower]

74. If we had a true investigation

Than yes I will make a full recovery.

[greyl]

81. You are the only one standing in the way of your education

about the facts and evidence that is already available.

[maxpower]

84. I've read the facts that are available

And I think they don't add up and are bullshit.

[greyl]

93. That's in contradiction to other posts of yours in this thread.

Your posts can't be taken seriously.
If you had evidence, you'd be talking about.

[maxpower]

95. The evidence?

Where is the evidence? National security won't let us see the true evidence.

[AZCat]

102. There's plenty of evidence available to us already.

Enough, at least, to draw some sensible conclusions about the events of September 11th.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AZCat]

122. Nice strawman.

Please refrain from such obvious logical fallacies.

It's too bad your "degree in history" didn't include classes that required you to think logically, or else you'd be aware of these things already and wouldn't have to learn them from experience.

[maxpower]

134. And those conclusions are?

[AZCat]

142. Pretty basic, really.

On September 11th, 2001, four aircraft slammed into both of the WTC towers, the Pentagon, and a field in Pennsylvania. The WTC towers collapsed as a result of the damage from impacts and the subsequent fires, and WTC 7 collapsed because of the damage from those collapses. These conclusions are well-supported by evidence already available from multiple sources.

[maxpower]

149. Ever seen picture of plane crashes

Lots of debris. None at the Pentagon nor Shanksville.

[AZCat]

157. If you want to cling to your foolish beliefs in the face of contrary evidence...

that's certainly your prerogative. I would suggest a different tack, but if you've managed to make it this long without seeing the photographs of debris at either of those two sites I don't imagine you'd be receptive to reasonable advice.

[maxpower]

184. Show me evidence of a plane crash

At the Pentagon or Shanksville.

[AZCat]

188. If you haven't seen it by now then I can't help you.

Denying what is plainly obvious is a sign of a larger problem.

[SDuderstadt]

219. Dude...how can one compare a plane crash in which the pilot tried to avoid the crash with...

instances where hijackers slammed planes into a building and into a field? Why would you expect them to look similar?

[Name removed]

285. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maxpower]

76. How can you so blindly believe your gov.

I was taught to always question. I don't believe the cooperate run government to find the truth. That is why it is up to the people to find out what happened.

[greyl]

86. I don't.

Looks like you forgot the lesson always question when in regards to the CTs you're posting about.
There are plenty of sites dispelling the bullshit about 9/11 CTs that were created by "the people".

[maxpower]

99. And of course everything on the internet

Is true? Right?

[SDuderstadt]

231. Well, apparently YOU think that...

you're citing CT websites chapter and verse...

[maxpower]

124. I don't go to conspiracy websites

Should I believe what someone tells me, or my lying eyes?

[greyl]

147. To repeat: your posts can't be taken seriously.

You just posted a link to a conspiracy web site a few minutes ago - an anti-Semitic site, no less - and now claim you don't go to conspiracy web sites.
Adios.

[wildbilln864]

160. adios? which post?

[maxpower]

78. And of course we don't torture either

right. Our gov is perfect. Never staged the sinking of the USS Maine, to start the Spanish American war. FDR wasn't aware of Pearl Harbor. The Gulf of Tonkin really happened. I guess what I learned getting my degree in history is worthless.

[greyl]

88. I never said that. You're trying to change the subject. nt

[maxpower]

98. It is compl;etely germane to the subject

My point being that our government has would do just about anything to get us into war. There is no profit in peace. I forgot about the Lusitania, the Germans posted warnings that they were going to sink the ship yet it sailed and we ended up in WWI.

[SDuderstadt]

239. Dude...do you know what Logical fallacy you're committing here?

Let me give you an analogous argument and see if you can name the fallacy.

Dogs have fur.

Cats have fur.

Therefore, cats are dogs.

[maxpower]

269. Bullshit

I was sighting things in our past to provoke war, just like 9/11. Take that logical fallacy professor.

[SDuderstadt]

275. Do you know the difference between...

"sighting" and "citing"?

Why can't you simply admit that Logic confounds you? Do you understand the fallacy I was illustrating? Do you see how you have repeatedly committed that fallacy, dude?

[SDuderstadt]

232. Dude....

show where any of us have made those arguments.

[wildbilln864]

82. we'll all recover...

when a real investigation is complete! :hi: The truth shall set you free dude!

[maxpower]

87. Right on

Brother

[wildbilln864]

68. Indeed some actually do believe that! nt

:crazy:

[SDuderstadt]

159. If there's "obfuscation" there...

feel free to point it out. Please be specific.

[maxpower]

36. One more thing

Have you heard of Operation Northwoods? And check this out, of course this is probably below your superior intellect http://bushcrimes.net/.

[SDuderstadt]

242. You just replied to yourself, dude...

LOLOLOLOL

[maxpower]

267. Oh my god

Wow you got me.

[SDuderstadt]

272. Well, what was your answer? n/t

[maxpower]

298. Maybe that was part of my plan

Just kidding

[maxpower]

306. You are a crafty one

I'll give you that.

Peace
Max

[vincent_vega_lives]

304. It was never an OPERATION

It was a memorandum with a codeword. It was rejected as foolhardy and no one was to be murdered in the stupid plan.

[Bolo Boffin]

110. This thread gets the coveted "2002" award

For being the thread in which more arguments from 2002 appear than any recent thread.

Congratulations!

[mikelgb]

305. All I have to say is it is really weird watching two Ted Kennedys argue

[vincent_vega_lives]

307. Kerosene could NEVER burn hot enough to weaken steel

Right?

700 gallons ignited under a steel beam under load rapidly reached a temperature of 2000 F and caused the I beam to completely fail in 5 minutes.

And 175 lbs of thermite ignited on a vertical steel column had zero effect. It just couldn't transmit enough heat directly to the steel.