Was President Bush Right?

[rhymeandreason]

Poll question: Was President Bush Right?

On November 10, 2001 President Bush made the following remark to the United Nations.

"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories regarding the attacks of September 11, malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists themselves, away from the guilty..."

link to video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K5M0xtxQVQ

Please take the time to explain your choice.

[Ohio Joe]

1. ahhh, another smear attempt

This poll is simply another attempt to paint those that do not buy the tinfoil as bush supporters. I find it a disgusting habit that the "truth" movement has developed. I would prefer they tried to present some facts... any facts to support their position rather then these constant smear attempts.

Simply disgusting.

Edit - I would also like to ask if you have anything to add to this forum besides smear attempts?

[whatchamacallit]

5. This is simply the flip side

of Bolo's dumb-ass poll.

[Ohio Joe]

6. Funny... looks like you posted first - nt

[Bolo Boffin]

7. Check the posting times, whatchamacallit. n/t

[whatchamacallit]

8. Oh...

My bad. Apologies.

[rhymeandreason]

2. I suppose, by the same logic, the poll could be construed to be a "smear"

directed at the people who think that Mr. Bush was lying. The "conspiracy nuts", if you like. :tinfoilhat:

[rhymeandreason]

3. Mr. Bush was nearly always lying or reading scripted lies.

I am confident that, in this case, also, he was lying; lying to promote the manufactured myth of what happened on 911 and lying to discredit anyone who would dare to question that myth.

As Mr. Bush so eloquently put it four years ago:

"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda."

[wildbilln864]

4. Why Mr. Bush?

Why must we avoid outrageous conspiracy theories? If they're so outrageous then they'll be dismissed on their merits eventually.

"Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." --Marshall McLuhan

[SDuderstadt]

9. Which is why your outrageous conspiracy ARE being dismissed, Bill...

for their total lack of merit...maybe one day you'll take the hint.

[wildbilln864]

14. what outrageous conspiracy theoy of mine do you refer to sduders?

:rofl:

[SDuderstadt]

15. All of them...

controlled demolition is a good starting point.

[wildbilln864]

16. If they really were dismissed....

you wouldn't feel the need to argue and spout your bullshit daily 24/7 sduders. And there'd be no forum for us to debate it.

[SDuderstadt]

17. "you wouldn't feel the need to argue and spout your bullshit daily 24/7 "

More of your bullshit, Bill? Talk about a stupid claim.

Maybe you should petition Speaker Pelosi amd Majority Leader Reid to start a new investigation. Oh, they're not taking your calls, Bill? Are they big "controlled demolition" proponents? Oh, they aren't?

[wildbilln864]

18. Thanks sduders....

you keep me young! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[SDuderstadt]

19. Well, if you're really young, that would explain a few things...n/t

[wildbilln864]

20. I'm 50....

but thanks for your childish display in this subthread for all to see. :rofl:

[SDuderstadt]

21. Amazing how someone can get to 50 yet...

still believe silly things like "controlled demolition" theories.

[wildbilln864]

22. You don't have a clue....

about what I believe but go ahead and make shit up anyway! But for the record I don't have a theory. I have suspicions.

[Bolo Boffin]

24. Almost 9,000 posts here give us a clue about what you believe, wildbill

The kinds of posts you kick here over and over give us a clue about what you believe.

The kinds of questions you insist have no answers when they have been answered give us a clue about what you believe.

Your link on your profile to peterdalescott.net gives us a clue about what you believe.

You don't have theories or suspicions, wildbill. You have a religion.

[wildbilln864]

25. you have not far from double what I have and....

and you should appreciate me giving you something to do. :rofl:

[Bolo Boffin]

26. I'm not disparaging you for having that many posts, wildbill

But you really should stop pretending that we don't have a clue about what you think happened on 9/11.

[wildbilln864]

27. I'm not pretending but if you'll.

tell me what you think I think, I'll let you know how close you are. :smoke:

[SDuderstadt]

28. Dude...I hate to tell you this, but...

if you have ''suspicions' that a particular thing happened, that's a theory. Your attempt at hair-splitting is failing miserably.

[wildbilln864]

33. actually I hate to tell you this but you're wrong again....

without evidence, which I don't have, it's just a hypothesis. theories require some evidence. Did you not know that? :shrug:

[SDuderstadt]

36. You know, it's really fucking amazing how you can be so wrong almost all the time, Bill

As you can see below, the definition of "theory" is, among other things, "hypothesis".

From Thesaurus.com

Main Entry: theory
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: hypothesis, belief
Synonyms: approach, argument, assumption, base, basis, code, codification, concept, conditions, conjecture, doctrine, dogma, feeling, formularization, foundation, grounds, guess, guesswork, hunch, idea, ideology, impression, method, outlook, philosophy, plan, position, postulate, premise, presentiment, presumption, proposal, provision, rationale, scheme, shot*, speculation, stab*, supposal, suppose, supposition, surmise, suspicion, system, systemization, theorem, thesis, understanding
Antonyms: certainty, fact, proof, reality

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/theory


Jesus, Bill. How in the fuck do you get things so CONSISTENTLY dead wrong, dude? Did you ever stop to think that since you are almost always, without exception, dead wrong about things, there's absolutely no reason to take you seriously about...well, anything?

[Grateful for Hope]

45. Hi Sduderstadt

I am not involving myself in this discussion, but, I wanted to clear up a misconception about the generally agreed upon definitions of "hypothesis" vs "theory".

Research (and stats) were my course of study in grad school, so it bothers me when inaccurate statements are made in respect to the scientific meanings of both words.

A hypothesis attempts to answer questions by putting forth a plausible explanation that has yet to be rigorously tested.

A theory, on the other hand, has already undergone extensive testing by various scientists and is generally accepted as being an accurate explanation of an observation.

There really is a difference between the two terms.

Thanks.

[greyl]

46. There is more than one definition of theory.

The conversation was not about the single definition you're talking about, eg theory of gravity.

[Grateful for Hope]

47. Thanks for your input. n/t

[greyl]

48. Don't mention it.

It just bothers me when inaccurate statements are made.

[Grateful for Hope]

49. I am sure it does. n/t

[greyl]

50. Well, hot dog! We have something else in common. nt

[rhymeandreason]

10. "...the official version of event was almost entirely and inexplicably untrue."

according to John Farmer in his forthcoming book, "The Ground Truth". I suppose that would include Mr. Bush's remarks.

Fr. the amazon.com review:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/1594488940/ref=dp_proddesc_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

excerpt:
Farmer, senior counsel to the 9/11 Commission, updates the commission's report in this thorough and bipartisan analysis. Drawing on newly declassified records and recent investigative reports from the departments of defense and transportation, the author concludes that the failure to detect and prevent the attack lay in the nature of modern government. Most significantly, rules proscribing information-sharing within and among agencies meant that no one had complete access to all available intelligence or information—typical bureaucratic inertia that presaged the government's bungled response to Hurricane Katrina. Farmer faults the disconnect between decision-makers and operational employees, concluding that leadership was irrelevant on 9/11 and the official version of events was almost entirely, and inexplicably, untrue.

[Bolo Boffin]

11. "...the failure to detect and prevent the attack lay in the nature of modern government."

Do you endorse Mr. Farmer's conclusion?

[SDuderstadt]

12. I predict that when Farmer's book doesn't quite turn out to be the "smoking gun"...

"truthers" hope it will be, they will disregard his nonetheless important contribution and immediately accuse him of being "in on it".

[rhymeandreason]

13. I've been thinking that it was something

along those lines for years. Particularly after the Katrina fiasco. More Murphy's Law than MIHOP. And, of course, Colleen Rowley's and Sibel Edmond's testimony also point to a terrible systemic breakdown and corruption of our intelligence agencies. Still, covering up what really happened, obstructing any thorough and effective investigation and promoting falsehoods about the events really does suggest, to me, fundamentally criminal motives.

[lovepg]

23. Hey I will be sure to use this explanation when the IRS asks why I paid no taxes...

Its the nature of modern civilian culture that it got overlooked. LOL!!!

[SDuderstadt]

29. For tax advice..

write to:

lovepg1564359
Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary
Leavenworth, KS 135625

[lovepg]

30. Exactly my point. Yet who is going to jail for the criminal neglect of 911??..

Its the government culture my ass,

[Realityhack]

31. False Dichotomy.

He was likely trying to deflect questions about what happened but that does not mean we should entertain outrageous conspiracy theories.

[tenseconds]

32. what is outrageous?

Who defines an "outrageous conspiracy theory" as oppossesd to a "conspiracy theory"? Are all conspiracy theories outrageous? Are all theories that differ from the government's version of 9-11 outrageous?

[wildbilln864]

34. yes!

everyone that doesn't agree with W is an outrageous CT!

[SDuderstadt]

37. I don't agree with W...

but that hardly makes me an "outrageous CT", dude.


Please stop going down this path that claims that if someone doesn't buy the bullshit of the "truth movement" that means they agree with W. It's really embarrassing, both for you and, especially, DU, dude.

[wildbilln864]

38. I don't see DU complaining about it....

just you whining as usual. :shrug:

[SDuderstadt]

40. That's why goofy 9/11 posts aren't allowed in GD...

dude.

[wildbilln864]

41. so stop crying about it...

we're in the appropriate forum.

[SDuderstadt]

42. Actually, I'm laughing my ass off, Bill...

because "truthers" are being spanked on national TV on the National Geographic Channel. I hope you're tuned in, dude.

[Bolo Boffin]

35. maybe we can establish a baseline

Like anyone saying that Jews or Israelis are responsible, not Al Qaeda.

Can we all agree that that's outrageous?

[wildbilln864]

39. yes. nt

[tenseconds]

43. observation

Early on,the voting for "yes" took the lead. At one time the "yes" votes outnumbered the "no" votes 6-3. Since then the nos have outvoted the yesses 15-3..

This may illustrate how quickly some Octers are to participate on any newly introduced thread.

[SDuderstadt]

44. Or, it may demonstrate how you devote your life to...

minutia.

I didn't vote because the "poll" only provides two choices.

[rhymeandreason]

51. I find it a little surprising that so many people

voted in favor of Mr. Bush. Although he lied about most of the policies, actions and crimes of his administration including the fixed elections, the justification for the war, the political subversion of the Department of Justice, illegal wiretaps, extraordinary rendition, torture, just about everything, apparently, some people, inexplicably, find the quoted admonition in the OP about what he would like us to believe happened on 911 to be credible and true. Amazing.