'Little Israel' will not save world from Iran

[Gimel]

With verbal tensions rising daily between Iran and Israel, Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee head Yuval Steinitz said the West should not expect "little Israel" to take pre-emptive action to save the world from Iranian nuclear weapons.

It is the free world, led by the United States, that must stand behind its pledge not to let Iran get the bomb, Steinitz said.

He warned that Iran aims at becoming a global nuclear power with long-range Shihab missiles that would put Europe and NATO forces in range.

"This is a problem of the leaders of the civilized world. One shouldn't expect little Israel to solve a global problem like this," Steinitz said in an interview with The Jerusalem Post.

Continued..

[Classical_Liberal]

1. That's nice! So we have to invade yet another country

The Iranians have submitted to intrusive inspections, so I think the threat is as overblown as it was when we invaded Iraq, and let me guess you expect us to get Syria after that. What crime has Syria committed? Bringing true stability to Lebanon?

[Gimel]

3. I don't "expect" you to do anything

I hope you don't, in fact.

[papau]

72. Reminds one of the 2001 comment by the French envoy "little country "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1721172.stm

Thursday, 20 December, 2001, 12:20 GMT
'Anti-Semitic' French envoy under fire
An international spat has developed over disparaging comments about Israel allegedly made by the French ambassador to London at a private dinner party. He has no intention of apologising - he doesn't feel there is any need for him to do so

During a conversation about the Middle East crisis with the owner of the Daily Telegraph newspaper, Conrad Black, ambassador Daniel Bernard is reported to have spoken about "that shitty little country Israel".

The buffet party comment subsequently became the subject of a Daily Telegraph column written by Mr Black's wife, journalist Barbara Amiel, who depicted her guest as an anti-Semite.

The remark has since sparked outrage in Israel - where the prime minister's spokesman has described it as "a pure anti-Semitic expression" - and among pro-Israeli British MPs, who have penned demands for Mr Bernard's resignation. <snip>

http://sydney.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=44920

THIS LITTLE SHITTY COUNTRY !!!!!
by unknown 4:53pm Wed Aug 18 '04 (Modified on 1:27am Thu Aug 19 '04) article#44920


Israel, the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population, can lay claim to the following:

Here is a capsule of accomplishments you may not be fully aware of. I
thought you might find these statistics interesting.

The Middle East has been growing date palms for centuries. The average
tree is about 18-20 feet tall and yields about 38 pounds of dates a year.

Israeli trees are now yielding 400 pounds/year and are short enough to
be harvested from the ground or a short ladder.

Israel, the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the
world's population, can lay claim to the following:

The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the Israeli
branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel.

Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by
Microsoft-Israel.

The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.
Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were
entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel.
The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.

Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.

The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996
by four young Israelis.

Israel has the fourth largest air force in the world (after the U.S, Russia
and China). In addition to a large variety of other aircraft, Israel's air
force has an aerial arsenal of over 250 F-16's. This is the largest fleet
of F-16 aircraft outside of the U. S.


According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry's
most impenetrable flight security. U. S. officials now look to Israel for
advice on how to handle airborne security threats.

Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate
neighbors combined.

Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.

Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.

Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other
nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people --as well as one of
the highest per capita rates of patents filed.

In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup
companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number
of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the U.S.
(3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups, Israel has the
highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world -- apart from the
Silicon Valley, U. S.

Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right
behind the U. S.

Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number
of NASDAQ listed companies.

Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East.
The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.

On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech startups.

Twenty-four per cent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees,
ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and
Holland and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.

Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.

In 1984 and 1991, Israel airlifted a total of 22,000 Ethiopian Jews at
Risk in Ethiopia, to safety in Israel.

When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she
became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.

When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli
rescue teams were on the scene within a day -- and saved three victims
from the rubble.

Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship -- and the
highest rate among women and among people over 55 - in the world.

Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing
nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious
freedom, and economic opportunity.

Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process,
an international standard that certifies diamonds as "conflict free."

Israel has the world's second highest per capita of new books.

Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century
with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because
this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.

Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.

Medicine... Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized,
no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.

An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper
administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical
treatment. Every year in U. S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from
treatment mistakes.

Israel's Givun Imaging developed the first ingestible video camera,
so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the
inside, the camera helps doctors diagnose cancer and digestive disorders.

Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the
heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among
those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the heart's
mechanical operations through a sophisticated system of sensors.

Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in
the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over
70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force
employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.

A new acne treatment developed in Israel, the ClearLight device,
produces a high-intensity, ultraviolet-light-free, narrow-band blue light that
causes acne bacteria to self-destruct -- all without damaging surrounding
skin or tissue.

An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale
solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in
southern California's Mojave desert.

All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy
that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under strain by
having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other
country on earth.

AND THE FRENCH AMBASSADOR IN ENGLAND SAYS ISRAEL IS NOTHING BUT A SHITTY LITTLE COUNTRY !!!

[IA_Seth]

73. Here is another they can lay claim to....

They get an disproportional amount of US money to help them along...which is ridiculous considering all of the achievements you have just listed.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Leilani]

2. Great news!

Little Israel is far from defenseless.

We should know, we foot the bill.

[Gimel]

4. It is a threat

not only to Israel, but to all within reach. That includes Europe, where France is a major nuclear power. It is a problem for the super power, not Israel. Not unless you relish being under Iranian rule in the next decade or so.

According to military intelligence, the Iranians are currently developing the Shihab 4 and 5, with ranges of 3,000 km. and 6,000 km., putting Europe under Iranian missile threat.

Final paragraph in posted article.

[Classical_Liberal]

5. They have submitted to coersive inspections which

were pretty damned effective in Iraq.

[Gimel]

6. Hmm

But later disallowed inspections, I believe. Also purchased nuclear materials since then. Nice to hear that someone is so confident, however. No doubt governments won't be.

[Classical_Liberal]

7. Iran: "Give IAEA inspectors time to do their job professionally": Kharrazi

Give IAEA inspectors time to do their job professionally: Kharrazi


WELLINGTON (MNA) – Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi said on Monday that the inspectors of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) should be given enough time to do their job “professionally and free” from any pressure, a Foreign Ministry press release said.

Talking to reporters in Wellington, New Zealand, Kharrazi said Iran is working closely with the IAEA and hopes its nuclear dossier will be closed soon.

Kharrazi added that nobody can deprive the Iranian nation of its right to use nuclear energy for civilian purposes.

The UN nuclear agency has not found any evidence indicating that Iran ever had a nuclear weapons program and Iran has been working hard to rid the region of weapons of mass destruction and seriously seeking to make the Middle East a WMD-free zone, the Iranian top diplomat added........

http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=8/24/2004&Cat=2&Num=011

[Classical_Liberal]

8. Also read: Bonkers Bolton Threatens Iran

Iran denies that it has a covert nuke program. Yet, Bolton charged that German, French and British diplomats had told him that the Iranian representatives to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) had told them that the Iranians could produce enough weapons-grade enriched uranium for a nuke within a year's time, and threatened to do so if the Brits-French-Germans didn't uphold their end of their deal.

(There were immediate news reports that French and German diplomats denied having told Bolton any such thing.)

You see, Iran had made a deal with the Brits-French-Germans about a year ago. In return for continued access to peaceful nuclear technology, Iran agreed to sign an Additional Protocol to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. In the interim, while the terms of the Additional Protocol were being negotiated, Iran granted Mohamed ElBaradei – Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency – the unrestricted access to all its nuclear-related facilities that the Additional Protocol would eventually provide.

For months, now, IAEA inspectors have been going anywhere they wanted to go and inspecting every thing they wanted to inspect. Iran may have a covert nuke program, but IAEA inspectors have yet to find any "indication" that Iran now has – or has ever had – a nuke-development program.

Yet, Bolton claims that the IAEA has found such evidence...........

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/prather.php?articleid=3422

[Gimel]

9. Ask the cat

to take care of the canary.

Iran at the Nuclear Threshold
Brenda Shaffer



For the past decade, Iran's nuclear program has been a proliferation concern to the United States. Given that Iran is awash with oil and gas reserves and regularly flares off vast quantities of natural gas, Tehran's decision to allocate a major portion of its infrastructure investment to develop nuclear power plants has been puzzling. In addition, proliferation warning flags have been raised by Iran's clandestine attempts to acquire uranium-enrichment equipment and fissile material.1 Combined with its support for Middle Eastern terrorist groups and the regime's efforts to undermine the Middle Eastern peace process, Washington has special concerns regarding the Iranian nuclear program.

However, up until the spring of this year, the United States was practically alone in pressing for limits on Iranian access to nuclear weapons-related technology and materials. Western European states and Russia have differed with the United States in their assessment of the extent of Iran's nuclear program and its intentions to develop nuclear weapons. Europe, Russia, and Japan have also been reluctant to upset bilateral trade and political relations with Iran as a lever to prevent proliferation. In addition, the contradictory missions of the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT)promoting civilian nuclear programs while preventing proliferation have allowed states such as Iran to near the nuclear threshold without violating the treaty, complicating proliferation detection and prevention.


http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003_11/Shaffer.asp

Also:

Iran Failed to Comply With Nuclear NPT, IAEA Reports
http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003_07-08/iaea_julaug03.asp

It's not Israel's special interest. It's the world's.

[Classical_Liberal]

10. If these countries are all threatened then it isn't the cat guarding

the canary. Furthermore IAEA is calling the Iranians on failures to comply, just as the UN inspectors did in Iraq which was obviously a complete success. Since there are no WMD there. The IAEA has still yet to find evidence of weapons production.

[Gimel]

11. Why do they need nuclear power?

As an oil producing nation, they have no apparent need to build nuclear power plants. That's why it is so suspicious, and why Kharrazi is like the cat who is supposed to comply with IAEA inspections. If they don't find anything, that doesn't prove much, whatever the experience in Iraq was. It doesn't guarantee that Iran will follow the same pattern.

[Classical_Liberal]

12. Oil is a finite resource and causes global warming`

We all have to reduce dependence on it. Iam pretty convinced as a result of Iraq that coersive inspections work well. Russia France and Germany are as threatened as Israel. Particularly Russia. They trust the inspections. It seems, unlike Israel, Iran has signed the nuclear non proliferation treaty.

[Gimel]

32. Any country with that much of it

Iran has an abundance of oil. Why would they be putting so much of their resources into developing nuclear power when they have so many other problems, such as poverty. They are known to support Hizbullah and other terrorist groups who call for the destruction of other nations, as does the Ayatollah Ali Hoseini-KHAMENEI , leader of the Islamic Revolution appointed for life by the Assembly of Experts;

High unemployment, inflation, a major earthquake last year, and 40% of the population below the poverty line, and agriculture is the major industry. I don't see how developing nuclear power is going to help them with employment and developing a stable economy. It's a very top-heavy industry.

[Classical_Liberal]

35. Hizbolla doesn't call for the destruction of other nations

It hasn't threatened Israel even once since Israel got out of Lebanon. Israel was trying to colonize Lebanon like the West Bank. The Likudniks still would like to, which is why the pressure the US to put sanctions on Syria all the time. Nuclear power provides employment for educated people, and encourages research and developement.

[Gimel]

46. Hizbullah

It hasn't threatened Israel even once since Israel got out of Lebanon

The Ayatollah certainly has threatened Israel. He is the head of Hizbullah. Threats have come from Beirut also. There were anti-Israel demonstrations this year which called for the death of Israel.

Nuclear power provides employment for educated people, and encourages research and developement.

That's why I said it was a top-heavy industry. It employs people who have work anyway. With 15% undemployment, Iran cannot afford that.

[Classical_Liberal]

50. When I see them attack Israel in some way that isn't a response

to an illegal flyover maybe I'll take demonstration chants seriously. Until then it just sounds like saber rattling against an aggressive expansionist state, which Israel most certainly is when it comes to Lebanon. Afterall Lebanon has never invaded Israel, nor threatened too.

Iran can decide for itself what it wants to do with it's industry. Research and development can create jobs for ordinary people too.

[Gimel]

53. Lebanon

Because the terrorist groups in Lebanon have attacked Israel, Lebanon stands responsible for harboring them. Syria has always dominated Lebanon, and launched attacks on Israel from there.

Hizbullah is one of those groups, running terrorists attacks inside of Israel, and has even claimed responsibility for them.

[Classical_Liberal]

56. That is not true. Hizbolla is a specifically Lebanese Nationalist group

that doesn't operate in any other theater. It attacked Israel during the Lebanon Invasion and has done nothing since. It has sent antiaircraft missles over the border after illegal flyovers. No more than that.

[Gimel]

57. It is a parent organization

It is an umbrella group that directs other terrorist organizations.

[Classical_Liberal]

58. I believe Israel claimed Iraq controlled the PLO and Hamas too.

Sorry, I don't buy it. You want them gone because they stopped Israel from settling Southern Lebanon. End of story.

[Gimel]

60. Israel didn't claim that

Israel said that Saddam supports the PLO, but never said he controls it or Hamas.

Israel never had the aim of settling Southern Lebanon.

More on Hizbullah:

The aim of the organization is to abolish the existing regimes in the Middle Eastern Muslim countries and to establish administrations based on Muslim laws. The leader of the organization is one of the Shii radicals, Sheikh Hasan NASRALLAH

...

The organization fights for the establishment of a Muslim state in Lebanon and launches attacks on US and Israeli targets. The USA and Israel are considered as the two great obstacles hindering the materialization of the aims of the organization. By means of participating in elections the organization tries to gain control over the political structure in Lebanon.

Hizbullah

[Classical_Liberal]

61. People can say anything they like but it hasn't operated in any countries

but Lebanon. At one time the same types said Iraq WMD. So much for authorities.

Israel was going to settle Lebanon up to the Litani River, just like in the Golan heights.

http://gurukul.ucc.american.edu/ted/ice/litani.htm

[Gimel]

63. Sure

believe what you like.

[Liberal Classic]

71. So their motivation to develop nuclear technology

Comes from their commitment to the environment?

Color me non-plussed.

[sushi]

66. If Iran wants nuclear power

why shouldn't they have it, Gimel? They probably think they need to make nuclear weapons to defend themselves. If I were Iranian I would be all for it. Then no country will want to attack, and in case it does happen Iran can retaliate! Hasn't Israel threatened to attack Iran? I'm sure Iran knows that if it attacks another country it will be destroyed. Do you think Iran wants to destroy itself? IMO, every country that wants nuclear power should have it or everybody that already has it gives it up! That's only fair.

[idontwantaname]

67. well said!

"every country that wants nuclear power should have it or everybody that already has it gives it up!"



although i dont doubt youll get some sort of responce.

[sushi]

69. I look forward to any response

Just bring it on! I'm sick of the double standards.

[number6]

14. Iran has rights like every other nation

If Iran needs nukes to defend itself
it should aquire them ...

[Classical_Liberal]

15. We have to part company on this

I want Israel to sign the nuclear non proliferation treaty too, and come clean about it's nuclear program and submit to coercive inspections. I don't think the citizens of either country deserve to live under the threat of nuclear annihilation. I remember very well what a nightmare this was in the 80s.

[number6]

16. I agree with that

"I want Israel to sign the nuclear non proliferation treaty too, and come clean about it's nuclear program and submit to coercive inspections. "

however the reality is Pakistan and India and Israel have nukes
Israel will probably not sign the nuclear non proliferation treaty
or allow inspections ...
Iran will get them sooner or later ...

the world has seen Iraq attacked (which didn't have nukes)
and North Korea left alone (which did have nukes)

whats the lesson ?

do I personaly want more nations to have nukes, no

but this is the legacy of Bush

[Gimel]

19. Just goes to show

that signing the NNP treaty isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[Classical_Liberal]

21. I don't trust fundies in Israel with the bomb anymore than fundies in Iran

At least Iran is submitting to inspections.

[Gimel]

22. In the past tense

The US inspected Israel, and I trust Israel with nuclear weapons before the US or Russia.

[Classical_Liberal]

23. The US never inspected Israel

Israel couldn't maintain it's nuclear ambiguity if it had. I don't trust any apocolyptic individual with the bomb. They don't care about life enough.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Nadav]

30. The Intifada was planned before Sharon's visit

But you knew that anyway.

[Classical_Liberal]

33. Care to back that up?

evidence, a citation?

[Nadav]

38. Why, would you believe it?

Google it yourself - Of course if the proof or source doesn't equal your beliefs, you will discount it anyway. If you want to believe man didn't land on the moon, you could find sources to prove that also. Sharon's visit while stupid was NOT the cause and you know it.

[Classical_Liberal]

39. I see, you can't

. ok. I googled Sharon and "the temple mount: and sharon and the intifada, and sharon and the intifaca and the "temple mount" and I couldn't anything on it.

[Nadav]

41. Start with a comment from the Mitchell Report

The Sharon visit did not cause the “Al-Aqsa Intifada.” But it was poorly timed and the provocative effect should have been foreseen; indeed, it was foreseen by those who urged that the visit be prohibited. More significant were the events that followed: The decision of the Israeli police on September 29 to use lethal means against the Palestinian demonstrators; and the subsequent failure, as noted above, of either party to exercise restraint.

[Nadav]

42. Then digest this coment

Imad Falouji, the Palestinian Authority Communications Minister, said at a rally in Lebanon on March 3, 2001,
that the violence had been planned in July, far in advance of Sharon's "provocation." He said:

Whoever thinks that this started as a result of Sharon's despicable visit to Al Aksa is in error. It was planned since Arafat's return from Camp David firmly stood up to Clinton and rejected the U.S. terms.

[Darranar]

43. That is actually a quite reasonable analysis...

but quite different from "the Intifada was planned before Sharon's visit."

Edit: Missed your second post (#42).

[Nadav]

45. you also missed my other point in #38

I said the visit was stupid, noone argues that point. But it was the opportunity to begin and not the cause of the inifada

[Darranar]

47. You said it was stupid, than outright stated that it wasn't the cause...

but you provided no evidence to back it up.

I question the idea of the Intifadah having a set, direct cause, I think it was a combination of a variety of things. The Sharon visit and the ensuing violence at the very least were a provocation, a spark to light the amassed fuel.

[Nadav]

48. I know you missed post #42

You said so yourself. Did you also not read it? Wasn't the word of the Palestinian official good enough for you?

Sure Sharon's visit was stupid but to say it was the main reason is blatantly false. If you want to call it a spark that set off the fire also remember that a fire wouldn't have been started if it wasn't first doused with the kerosene.

I could say that the killing of the Israeli policeman by his Palestinian counterpoint the same day as Sharon's visit was the cause.

Sharon's visit lasted less than an hour and during that time never did he enter the Mosque. He also did it during the time that tourists were allowed to visit the mosque.

Again, it was stupid but to say it was the cause of the second intifada is both ridiculous and naive.

Are you willing to say that had Sharon not visited the mosque that day there would have been no intifada at all? Because that is what was implied by the other poster.

[Darranar]

51. I was talking about post #38, which you said you had missed...

As for whether the Intifada would have happened without Sharon's visit, it probably would have, eventually.

[Nadav]

54. Then it must have been a typo on your part

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x77358#77534

Otherwise you have completely confused me. I haven't claimed that I have missed any post.

[Violet_Crumble]

59. I refer you to post #147 to clear it all up...

And if that's not clear enough, the typo in post #78 will settle it beyond a doubt ;)

Now that's out of the way, you were pointing out that sparks that lit the Intifada wouldn't have taken hold if there hadn't been fuel. So, what in yr opinion was the fuel that led to it?

Violet...

[Nadav]

62. Your post numbers have totally confused me

But that aside, pinning blame on any particular event in the history of this region is an impossible thing to do. Some people want to place blame on the day Israel was given birth to. Others want to go back further in time than that and their arguments must also be considered. I don't know where you want history to begin but to pin a single reason for this intifada on any one particular incident is a fool's task and I won't play that game but I will not remain silent when a definitive charge that Sharon caused it was made and there are no other possibilities.

The problems began before Sharon was born and will probably (sadly) continue after he is long gone.

If you want to play good guy bad guy, remember what "Deep throat" told Woodward and Bernstein. "Follow the money"

[Violet_Crumble]

65. Whoosh...

Oh, well....

I asked you what the kerosene was because you made this comment, and I assumed you may have had some thoughts on it: 'Sure Sharon's visit was stupid but to say it was the main reason is blatantly false. If you want to call it a spark that set off the fire also remember that a fire wouldn't have been started if it wasn't first doused with the kerosene.' I don't recall asking you for ONE specific incident that was the kerosene, btw, so there's not really any need to trot out the 'good guy bad guy' line on me :)

Violet...

[Darranar]

64. Nevermind then. Just ignore the first part of post #47. n/t

[Nadav]

44. Read on

In a revealing interview with the London-based Arabic daily Al-Hayat (September 29, 2001), Marwan Barghouti, head of the Tanzim, admitted his critical role in igniting the October 2000 intifada in both the West Bank and Gaza, as well as among the Israeli Arabs:

I knew that the end of September was the last period (of time) before the explosion, but when Sharon reached the al-Aqsa Mosque, this was the most appropriate moment for the outbreak of the intifada....The night prior to Sharon's visit, I participated in a panel on a local television station and I seized the opportunity to call on the public to go to the al-Aqsa Mosque in the morning, for it was not possible that Sharon would reach al-Haram al-Sharif just so, and walk away peacefully. I finished and went to al-Aqsa in the morning....We tried to create clashes without success because of the differences of opinion that emerged with others in the al-Aqsa compound at the time....After Sharon left, I remained for two hours in the presence of other people, we discussed the manner of response and how it was possible to react in all the cities (bilad) and not just in Jerusalem. We contacted all (the Palestinian) factions.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[Lithos]

40. Note concerning religion

Respect and courtesy for one's own religious and spiritual beliefs demands equal respect and courtesy be given to others for theirs.

In simple terms this means general judgemental or declarative statements concerning the truthfulness, appropriateness, or intent of religious or dogmatic beliefs, are inappropriate. They usually come across as a broad-brushed and stereotypical.

Discussions of specific individuals (by name) are allowed provided specific details and analysis are given and no attempt is made to stereotype a broader audience. Thus discussions of Kahane's or Yassin's religious background are allowed.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[Gimel]

55. Inspections

Israel was periodically inspected by US. The last such inspection was on 22 April 1967.

[sushi]

68. Of course you trust Israel with nuclear weapons

Apparently Iranians don't! And another thing - why should Israel be inspected only by the US? There is a whole lot of world outside the US and Israel! These two countries want to decide what other countries can and cannot have, what is good and not good for other countries. Do you, Gimel, think that that is fair?

[Leilani]

17. This thread is pretty ironic

now that it is apparent Israel has been spying on us again.

Why were they spying?

To try & influence American foreign policy concerning Iran.

Seems to follow a pattern.

[Gimel]

20. Not apparent at all

Only an allegation.

[SOS]

18. Meanwhile in North Korea

:boring:

[brainshrub]

36. Isreal knows all about secret weapons programs,

Don't they?

[Djinn]

37. didn't you hear

they "let" the US inspect...wonder if certain posters here would be happy if Iran let Lebanon do their inspections.

As for the original article posted

" the West should not expect "little Israel" to take pre-emptive action to save the world from Iranian nuclear weapons."

we don't expect "little israel" to do anything of the sort - we would be horrified if you did - MOST of the rest of the world despises the corrupt notion of "pre-emptive" attacks and besides why would Israel need to do anything anyway, it seems the US is there to carry out it's foreign policy desires.

[bemildred]

49. Well, I guess the world will just have to go to hell by itself. nt

[The Crystal Method]

70. "Little Israel"

That's a misnomer if I ever saw one.