Jesus film ignites passions months before it opens (global anti-Semitism)

[IndianaGreen]

Posted on Sat, Aug. 09, 2003

Jesus film ignites passions months before it opens
By ROBERT W. BUTLER
The Kansas City Star

"I don't know that I've seen a movie that so deeply affected me as this one did," said Del Tackett, executive vice president of the conservative Focus on the Family. Tackett was one of 30 Focus on the Family staffers who in June saw a rough cut of the film.

"I tried to describe some of the scenes to my wife," Tackett said in a phone conversation, "and just broke down crying."

Although those attending were required to sign a nondisclosure agreement pledging that they would not reveal details of "The Passion," Tackett said that in general the film faithfully followed the scriptural narrative that has the Jewish high priests plotting to eliminate Jesus and even threatening Pilate with a general uprising if he fails to order Jesus' execution.

<snip>

The mention of one of those nuns, St. Anne Catherine Emmerich, raised a red flag. Emmerich's writings carry a strong anti-Jewish bias, Fredriksen wrote. One of Emmerich's visions had Jerusalem's high priest ordering that Jesus' cross be made in the courtyard of the temple (crucifixion was a Roman punishment, not a Jewish one); in another, Pilate criticizes the high priests for physically abusing Jesus.

<snip>

Sister Mary Boys said that initially she was concerned not so much by how "The Passion" would be received in the United States but by the possibility it could lead to real human-rights problems if it were shown in parts of the world where anti-Jewish sentiment is a way of life.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/6492789.htm

[IndianaGreen]

1. Rabbi Marvin Hier was on CNN today worried about this film

CNN had an Evangelical Christian who had seen the film and said he was faithful to the Bible and a great film. Heir was clearly worried about the fact that Gibson is not allowing scholars see the film. Heir said that he had been inundated with anti-Semitic mail from people that oppose his criticism of Bibson's The Passion (they haven't seen the film either).

BTW, the Evangelical Christian (who is from some school in Colorado) told Heir that Mel Gibson had no obligation to show the film to anyone.

The film is being released on Ash Wednesday 2004, which I have no clue when that is. Is it around Pesach, which means that it won't be released until next year, or the High Holidays, which means late September?

Here is an article that Heir co-authored back in June:

June 22, 2003

MEL'S PASSION

Gibson's making a film on Jesus worries some Jews
By Marvin Hier and Harold Brackman

Cecil B. DeMille's 1927 biblical epic, "The King of Kings" offended American Jews by portraying the Jewish people — rather than the Romans — as responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus. DeMille dismissed criticism, insisting that "if Jesus were alive today, these Jews I speak of might crucify him again."

But whether DeMille admitted it or not, the film did fuel anti-Semitism. Consider the following note, passed between two fourth-grade girls, that found its way into the files of Rabbi Stephen S. Wise: "Martha, I found out who killed our God. The Jews did it. I went to see King of Kings. It showed how the Jews killed him."

Now comes Mel Gibson, who insists Jews and Catholics will have nothing to worry about in his new, self-financed, $25-million film, "The Passion." It's true that the final script hasn't been made available, and there is currently no release date, or even distributor, for the film. Still, there are reasons for concern.

The passion of Christ — the crucifixion and hours leading up to it — has been used by bigots, including popes and kings, to inflame anti-Semitism through the ages. A belief that Jews were responsible for crucifying the son of God led Pope Innocent III to conclude in the early 13th century that Jews should be consigned to a state of "perpetual subservience" as wanderers and fugitives, and made to wear a mark on their clothing identifying them as Jews. His pronouncement reinforced widespread anti-Semitism that led over the centuries to millions of Jews being burned at the stake and murdered in pogroms throughout Christian Europe.

http://www.wiesenthal.com/social/press/pr_item.cfm?ItemID=7820

[GabysPoppy]

2. Pesach I believe - n/t

[rini]

3. Passion

I have not seen the film, I haven't seen excerps of it, or read the script, therefore I have no comment on the film per se. However, the idea of diacide is ridiculous.

#1. What mortal has the power to kill a god?

#2. Human sacrifice has been outlawed in Judaism since the time of Abraham. So why would G-d violate his own law to kill his own son for a concept (original sin) that does not occur in Judaism?

#.3. Romans nailed Jews up like billboards along the highway. ROMANS, not Jews.

#4. If Jesus hadn't died, there would be no Christian religion, where is the thanks for this?

[Cassandra]

4. I've always wondered about #4 myself

"#4. If Jesus hadn't died, there would be no Christian religion, where is the thanks for this?"

You would think this was a useful thing; why the complaints?

[Darranar]

6. Since when...

have the evangelical christian anti-semites made sense? Expect only hypocrisy from them; that's what you'll get.

Since when have any racists made sense, for that matter?

[Wonder]

7. well darranar

there are racists that seem to think they make sense. especially those combing this board for those they feel sound racist. I bet those racist police who seem to exonerate one kind of racist while they out what they presume to be another kind of racist, I bet they think they make sense at least within the group that agrees with them...

very much like those who take it upon themselves to comment outwardly about comments they presume to sound anti-semitic (a form of racism). This has happened on this board more than once... and it is rampant on other forums on the internet...

[Wonder]

5. discussion on this in LBN as well

here is the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=57395

[IndianaGreen]

8. CNN: Mel Gibson's controversial 'Passion' (Monday, August 11)

Finally, one ADL official gets to watch this controversial film at a Houston screening. His comments below...

Mel Gibson's controversial 'Passion'
Hailed by some, condemned by others well before release
Monday, August 11, 2003 Posted: 10:51 AM EDT (1451 GMT)

Those who fear "The Passion" could fuel anti-Semitism, however, until now hadn't been allowed to see the film. Seven months before its release, this extraordinary vanity project is stirring passions over Gibson's exclusionary screenings and the potential for a negative depiction of Jews.

On Friday it was shown in Houston to an audience that included for the first time an official from the Anti-Defamation League, which fights anti-Semitism. Audience members signed confidentiality agreements before attending the screening.

"We still have grave concerns," Rabbi Eugene Korn, director of the ADL's Office of Interfaith Affairs in New York, told the Houston Chronicle in Saturday's editions.

<snip>

But what is Gibson's version of the story? His traditionalist religion rejects the reforms of the Second Vatican Council, which in 1965 rejected the notion that Jews were collectively responsible for killing Jesus. The actor is building a traditionalist church in Malibu, California, for about 70 members, and intends to hold Sunday services there in Latin.

His father, Hutton Gibson, was quoted in a New York Times Magazine article in March as denying the Holocaust occurred.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Movies/08/11/film.the.passion.ap/index.html

[Wonder]

9. the actor is building a traditionalist church in malibu?

mel is a lunatic now? I just thought he was a bad actor. has anyone checked into his affiliations. It says he produced this film with his own money. I find it hard to believe mel has an antisemitic agenda, but this church in malibu raises an eye brow is he in with higher ups saxon elitist circles...

How do you like that now we need a tin foil hat for mel. what are his politics? Or is this some strange synchronicity?

[Wonder]

10. WorldNetDaily: Beware the bigoted kibitzers

Hmmm I do not vouche for his source or it's affiliations... but this may just be a very big contravercy with this movie with much hoopala about these Jewish High Priests. Personally I find it difficult to take seriously, but for my understanding of prejudical issues here. Mel blows on authenticity (which it seems is his number one PR bullet on this movie) when he cast Jesus the Saxon... but anyway...

Another Article... I can't believe it I NEVER follow the hollwyood hoopala. I pull what looks to be the gripes or counter arguments to the concerns from Jewish Groups. Please bare in mind I am only the messenger.

snip

Shortly thereafter, the Los Angeles Times ran an opinion piece by two people from the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a worthy Jewish organization dedicated to helping people remember the evil slaughter of millions of Jews in the Holocaust in World War II. The men cautioned Mel Gibson about how he was depicting Jewish leaders in his new movie about the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, "The Passion."

Apparently, these men get very upset, as we have and they should, whenever someone tries to revise Holocaust history by questioning minor historical details about Hitler's horrible genocidal program. Then, they contradict themselves by wanting to revise the historical record by hiding the truth about the religious leaders who were involved in the trials that resulted in the death of Jesus. As these men say, it was Pontius Pilate who ordered the crucifixion, but they leave out the fact that it was religious leaders who incited the mob into demanding the crucifixion.

Telling Christians what to think about their own faith has become the fashion in the media, but that does not make it right. It is a base form of religious bigotry and exposes the agenda of the bigots who want to eliminate Jesus, the Bible and Bible-believing Christians from the marketplace of ideas.

more...
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33480

[Wonder]

11. I guess the Christains can play the discrimination card too!

says, "you said you wanted evolution ye-ah well you know -- we all want to change the world"

[IndianaGreen]

14. Hint: there was no Jewish mob demanding Jesus's death.

Think of Israel under Rome as Iraq under the American thumb. How do the Iraqis view the American occupation? Can you imagine an Iraqi mob demanding that Paul Bremer executes an Iraqi freedom fighter that has not used violence?

The entire story about the mob, the priests (there were several levels in the priesthood), and Pilate caving in is a total myth with no historical basis whatsoever.

Did you know that Governor Pilate was removed from office by the Emperor for being too harsh on the Jews? That's a historical fact! Why would a ruthless tyrant, which is what Pilate was, play Hamlet all of a sudden with another Messianic pretender?

Why would the story about Pilates's wife having bad dreams about Jesus sound so much alike to the story of Caesar's wife dreams on the eve of the Ides of March?

Pontius Pilate, Roman Prefect (26 C.E. -36 C.E.)

During his ten-year tenure as prefect, Pilate had numerous confrontations with his Jewish subjects. According to Jewish historian Josephus, Pilate's decision to bring into the holy city of Jerusalem "by night and under cover effigies of Caesar" outraged Jews who considered the images idolatrous. Jews carried their protest to Pilate's base in Caesaria. Pilate threatened the protesters with death, but when they appeared willing to accept martyrdom he relented and removed the offending images. Again according to Josephus, Pilate provoked another outcry from his Jewish subjects when he used Temple funds to build an aqueduct. It seems likely that at the time of the trial of Jesus, civil unrest had again broken out in Jerusalem.

Pilate's lack of concern for Jewish sensibilities was accompanied, according to Philo writing in 41 C.E, by corruption and brutality. Philo wrote that Pilate's tenure was associated with "briberies, insults, robberies, outrages, wanton injustices, constantly repeated executions without trial, and ceaseless and grievous cruelty." Philo may have overstated the case, but there is little to suggest that Pilate would have any serious reservations about executing a Jewish rabble-rouser such as Jesus.

Although Pilate spent most of his time in the coastal town of Caesaria, he traveled to Jerusalem for important Jewish festivals. While in Jerusalem, he stayed in the praetorium, which--there is a debate about this--was either a former palace of Herod the Great or a fortress located at the northwest corner of the Temple Mount. (Josephus reported that Pilate resided at the palace.)

Christian accounts of the trial of Jesus suggest either that Pilate played no direct role in the decision to execute Jesus (Peter), or that he ordered the crucifixion of Jesus with some reluctance (Mark) or with great reluctance (Luke, John). Many historians attribute these accounts to efforts by early Christians to make their message more palatable to Roman audiences.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/jesuskeyfigures.html

[Wonder]

16. I'm with you on this

as I said more than once. Even if there were Jewish High Priests who were adverse to the Preachings of jesus that does not make them ALL THE JEWS... I haven't seen the movie so I don't know if it just speculated that an audience will EQUATE these High Priest as meaning ALL JEWS or if this is what MEL is suggesting

I know the populace was under PONTIUS PILOT he was the one that had him cucified... You have to have read all of my other posts. I KNOW THE EQUATION CAN NOT BE MADE. That is what I have been saying...Apparently though the IGNORANCE is pervasive and you know rabid ANTI SEMITES when did they ever need an excuse.

Probably this is what the concern is all about how these Jewish High Priests are portrayed in terms of their power. So far that I know, no jewish groups have seen the film yet. You know the same implication was made with Jesus Christ Superstar that Pontius Pilate washed his hands of the decision and let the crowd make the decision... I guess there are christians who feel that it was pressure from the Jewish populace.... BUT I NEVER BOUGHT THAT...

It would be like saying WE CALLED FOR THE MURDER OF SADDAMS SON'S... which is not even a good parallel because Americans are under American authority we are not a occupied people...

[IndianaGreen]

15. Pontius Pilate was a murderous thug, and not the vascillating man...

Pontius Pilate was a murderous thug, and not the vascillating man portrayed in the Gospels. Gibson's film will perpetuate a myth that has been used as the basis for persecuting Jews for two millenia.

BTW, Samaritans were Jews too, they just did not follow the dictates of the Jerusalem Temple, thinking it to be corrupt and Jewish-Lite. Samaritans were actually a bit more liberal, for example pre-marital sex was permissible for a couple engaged to be married.

Pontius Pilate (suicide ca. 38 CE)

The best known Roman governor of Judea to later history because of his role in the accounts of Jesus' execution. Pilate probably came from the ranks of cavalry officers (equites) from which Rome regularly drew the prefects of smaller occupied provinces like Judea. His appointment as prefect of Judea in the latter half of the reign of Tiberius---when the brutal Praetorian captain Sejanus was de facto ruler of Rome---is confirmed by reports in Josephus & a stone found in 1962 at Caesarea Maritima (the capitol of the Roman province of Palestine), inscribed: "(Thi)s Tiberieum (Pon)tius Pilatus, Prefect of Judea, (mad)e."

The Pilate described by Josephus & the Roman historian Tacitus was a strong willed, inflexible military governor who was insensitive to the religious scruples of his Jewish & Samaritan subjects & relentless in suppressing any potential disturbance. This stands in sharp contrast to the impression conveyed in the Christian gospels which, for apologetic reasons, portray him as reluctant to execute Jesus. Pilate's decade long tenure (26-36 CE) testifies to both his relative effectiveness in maintaining order & to the aging emperor's lack of personal attention to administrative affairs. The ruthless slaughter of thousands of Samaritan pilgrims by Pilate's cavalry , however, led to such a strong Palestinian protest that Pilate was eventually recalled to Rome. Tiberius died before his return; but the new emperor (Caligula) relieved Pilate of his command & exiled him to Gaul (Vienne-on-Rhone). In good Roman military fashion, as one who had suffered defeat & public disgrace, he committed suicide.

For references to Pilate outside the NT see:

Josephus, Antiquities 18.35, 55-64, 85-89, 177; War 2.169-177;
Philo, Embassy to Gaius 38;
Tacitus, Annals 15.44.

http://religion.rutgers.edu/iho/pilate_2.html

[Wonder]

17. AUG 12, 2003: Jewish Group Says Gibson's 'Passion' Will Fuel Hate

SNIP

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The Anti-Defamation League said on Monday an upcoming religious film from actor and director Mel Gibson would lead to hatred of Jews if it is released in its current form.

The film, called "The Passion," is Gibson's depiction of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and events leading up to it. The film has been screened for several groups ahead of its release, and has touched off a firestorm of controversy among organizations and people concerned about anti-Semitism.

Jewish leaders have raised concerns it might portray Jews as collectively guilty for Christ's crucifixion, while Catholics have expressed worries that Gibson might use the film to challenge church teachings.

"The film unambiguously portrays Jewish authorities and the Jewish mob as the ones responsible for the decision to crucify Jesus," Abraham Foxman, the league's national director, said in a statement.

MORE....

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=3260483&src=eDialog/GetContent

I definitely can see why Foxman would come to this conclusion, even without having viewed the film, which I do not believe he has yet, nor have any of the Jewish groups. I have a old friend who is Jewish. Years ago we had a conversation. He has a goony sense of humor and he was joking around about how he was ridiculed for being Jewish in his Bronx neighborhood and that for the most part he got along very well with the Italians in the neighbor. I don't remember the conversation, but it led to me asking him why it seemed so many people didn't like Jewish people. He laughed and said it was because they though the Jews killed Jesus. I asked him if he was kidding. He wasn't. It struck me as ridiculous then, it is no less ridulous now. I wish though that before drawing any conclusions on what I have to say about everything PEOPLE WOULD READ MY POSTS and assess them en total because I have become tired by the reverse discrimination and I do not like the implication that criticism of Israeli policy equals anti-Semitism. I do not know if this is your implication, but people are PRETTY TOUCHIE and I am sick of it. IGNORANCE is an equal opportunity employer FOLKS and throwing around indictments based on one post is BULLSHIT.

The fucking film is a joke to me based on this one bit of OBVIOUS inauthencity in GIBSON'S film JESUS once again looks like a SAXON...

That these fucking people think the Jews killed Jesus and they even care about jesus at all is because they believe him to be a SAXON.

JESUS IS NOT A SAXON... I have already contributed a number of posts here regarding this as well as in thread in LBN... I thought I made myself clear on this. It is a fucking movie... it is not the first time the implication was made in a theatrical depiction that the Jewish populace made the call. IT IS IGNORANCE... Roman Authority put Jesus to death...Even if Mel makes this clear in this movie... People will miss the nuance because in a rabid antiSemites mind NOT ONLY did the JEWS KILL JESUS don't yu know THE JEWS ARE TAKING OVER THE WORLD TOO. I did not make the world the way it is.

I made my position on this clear already now in two threads. People we are in trouble here. This is going to blow up in our faces. With or without this FUCKING MOVIE it promises to blow up in our faces. People are throwing around false accusations left and right. Why? because quite simply put for the most part PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DISAGREE, or their frame a reference needs to be widened, and it is not only here in DU either. anti-this, anti-that, conspiracy this, tinfoil that. It makes me sick. It makes all people intolerable to me. I keep my distance from all people now even those who think they agree with me, or I think I agree with. I'll take an animal over a person any day now. I'll stick to puppies.

Because I guess in the world we are going to have this BIG FIGHT NOW once and for all to figure out IF THE JEWS KILLED THAT WHITE ANGLO SAXON PROTESTANT LOOKING JESUS. And in the meantime, I think it is absurd, most of this bickering is absurd, sorry, although I wish I could, there is nothing I can do about it.

[The Stranger]

22. Then send Matthew a letter . . .

Pontius Pilate was a murderous thug, and not the vascillating man portrayed in the Gospels.

. . . . and complain to him about it. By the way, Matthew was a Jew trying to get his fellow Jews to embrace "Jesus" (the Greek form of the name Joshua, by the way) as the Messiah.

[IndianaGreen]

24. How come Judas is the only disciple with a Hebrew name (Judah)

How come Judas is the only disciple with a Hebrew name (Judah) in the Gospels, while all the others have Greek names? Hint: it is no mere coincidence.

[The Magistrate]

26. Matthew And His Fellows, Sir

Were writing to a dual audience: Gentiles of the Western Mediterranean, and Roman authorities, with the leading objective of distancing themselves from any identification with Messianic rebels of Judea. They were already in bitter schism with the Judaic Christians of Judea, a schism gone past repair by the time of John's Gospel.

There is no reason whatever to hold the various Gospels as historical documents, presenting valid detail about physical events: all were colored by theological conceptions and schismatic interests. They are not reportage.

[Wonder]

12. this is like the clash of judao catholics...here is another bit

snip

A liberal ad-hoc committee of Catholic and Jewish scholars, associated with the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), has criticized it (actually, an early, and stolen, draft of the screenplay) for allegedly promoting anti-Semitism. (To its credit, the USCCB has apologized to Gibson and has distanced itself from the committee's dubious assessment.)

Of course, these must be the same individuals who criticize certain portions of the New Testament for promoting anti-Semitism. So if one believes Christianity to be anti-Semitic, then he or she would most likely agree with the committee. Orthodox Catholics, like myself, however, would not agree with it.

(It is also interesting to note that blatantly anti-Catholic movies such as Priest and Dogma don't seem to bother these liberal critics; only those that might somehow be construed as anti Semitic.)

snip

And it is in this realm of fringe Catholicism that one can find real and virulent anti Semitism, not to mention some wild conspiracy theories.

snip

Now, I would have a hard time believing Mel Gibson would ever subscribe to such lunacy. But fringe Catholicism can and does breed hate, and its adherents are legion, albeit scattered and sectarian. So beware!

Still, while I don't agree with Gibson's theology per se - though I certainly would agree with him on many issues involving Catholic faith and morals - I do applaud him for having the courage to make a movie like The Passion. He is indeed one of the very few prominent entertainers in decadent Hollywood to put God, morality and family above money, career and political correctness.

God bless him for

more...

http://www.illinoisleader.com/letters/lettersview.asp?c=7307

well unspining the biblical history will prove to be an M'effer... that is all I have to say... and I have never been fond of religion especially dogma... nothing like a cock and bull story just before a chicken fight.

[Wonder]

13. Transcript: Contravercial film the passion.

snip

Washington, D.C.: In the Soviet Union, textbooks were written carefully so as not to offend party leaders. Do you believe any comparison can be made to the Soviet censors, who oversaw the writing of those textbooks, and the ADL's part in persuading Mel Gibson to make his movie less "anti-Semitic" (their words)?

Michael Medved: Not a legitimate comparison. The ADL doesn't operate (at least not yet) with the power of government behind it.

Anti-Semtic charges: But you admit that Mel Gibson has not allowed Jewish leaders (Foxman, etc.)-- who have specifically requested to see it -- to be at a screening?

Nobody would confuse them for film critics, if that is what Gibson is worried about.

Michael Medved: He has excluded people who have condemned his film publicly before they even saw it. That makes sense to me. I don't see that Abe Foxman and Co. have displayed the least bit of open-mindedness or good faith.

________________________________________________

Washington, D.C.: The movie, JFK, was contrary to fact (to name just one example). No special accommodations were made by Oliver Stone to his detractors. Is there a historical accuracy/scholarly argument for changing "The Passion" before release, and if so, why should this movie be treated special?

Michael Medved: The argument concerning "The Passion" centers on the history of anti-Semitism. No people have ever been murdered as a group because of accusations that they killed Kennedy. Millions of Jews have, in fact, suffered death and persecution because of accusations that they were "Christ-killers." If the movie irresponsibly recycled those old, poisonous accusations I believe that people of good faith would appropriately condemn it. It's obvious, however, that Mel Gibson has tried to avoid echoing ancient charges of deicide and has gone to some lengths to stress that Jesus and his disciples, as well as his primary accusers, were Jewish.

more...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21289-2003Aug5.html

'Passion' elicits unfair conflict
BEDITORIAL by Michael Medved
Any piece of pop culture that touches on serious religious themes inspires its share of controversy, but the noisy assaults on Mel Gibson's unfinished film The Passion, which describes the final 12 hours in the life of Jesus Christ, seem unfair and painfully premature. Indignant denunciations of a movie that its critics haven't even seen, coming nearly a year before that picture's scheduled release, suggest an agenda beyond honest evaluation of the film's aesthetic or theological substance. The explosive charges of anti-Semitism being directed at this project may even threaten the emerging alliance between devout Christians and committed Jews.

snip

Meanwhile, the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and other groups devoted to combating anti-Semitism issued critical statements about The Passion based on an early draft of the screenplay that the Gibson camp called a "stolen" script. Gibson insists he has altered the screenplay substantially since that early draft, but this didn't stop the ADL from issuing an angry statement on June 24, asking: "Will the final version of The Passion continue to portray Jews as blood-thirsty, sadistic and money-hungry enemies of Jesus? ... Will it portray Jews and the temple as the locus of evil? ... ADL stands ready to advise (Gibson's) Icon Productions constructively regarding The Passion to ensure that the final production is devoid of anti-Semitic slander."

Of course, the ADL might have advised the producers more "constructively" with a private phone call, memo or meeting rather than with a thermonuclear press release. As it is, assaults on his unseen film leave Gibson in a painful predicament. If he ignores the ADL and other critics, he faces accusations of "insensitivity," but if he responds to their condemnations by allowing activists to shape his picture's content, then he undermines his announced intention of sparing no expense (including $25 million from his own production firm) to create a film of fearless, uncompromising Gospel authenticity.

more...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-07-21-medved_x.htm


Anti-Semitic notion of Passion won't go away (JULY 18, 2003)

Snip

The Jewish people did not kill Jesus, despite what Mel Gibson's new movie might suggest. Civic and religious leaders conspired to crucify him.

Still, the lie, until recently taught as truth by the church, that all Jewish people are Christ killers lingers on. Some fear Gibson might give it new life.

more...
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/accent/content/auto/epaper/editions/friday/accent_f37100c285f430c100da.html

------------------

Okay that does it: my opinion stands --- several Jewish High Priests does not ALL THE JEWS make. It's a frickin hollywood movie about JESUS THE SAXON... Authentic? With or without this film is anti-semitism and anti-arabism being stirred with passion? Is ignorance endemic? I rest my case.

(sorry if I duplicated any articles from the LBN thread on this Passion topic).

[Jackie97]

18. History says that Pilate was a rough natured person...

to make him look like a good man, and the Jews like a bunch of evildoing murderers of God makes me sick.

Mel Gibson is disgusting.

[Wonder]

19. Here is the thing

are we sure that is what he has done. or is it that even just the inclusion of this group of these Jewish High Priests becomes contravertial because Jewish groups feel just this will incite hate, due to anti-semitism being prevalent in the world?

I am not sure Mel Gibson has depicted ALL THE JEWS in the movie as evildoing thugs. Without having seen the movie that is an assumption. A preconceived notion. I am not sure that is why the movie is being prematurely criticized as a movie that will potentially incite hate. Instead the crux of the concern seems to rest on how the power of these Jewish High Priests as they interacted under Roman Authority (the ultimate power) will be misconstrued by the audience.

It seems the issue is will the audience have the acuity to make appropraite delineations without lumping things together? From the looks of some of the discussions on many of the topics that come up on various forums, it seems to me all sides concerned are vulnerable to jumping to premature conclusions, so based in that observation the premature criticism may be right on, for a group of what I will term rabid anti-Semites. This group are already convinced ALL THE JEWS KILLED JESUS so this film will just offer them further proof of this. Not that it is proof of this. Without the appropriate understanding of heirarchy this film is just a depiction of the various breakdowns in the society under Roman Authority.

For that reasons, I do believe this movie since it seems it has focused in on the power of these Jewish High Priests might just incite hate. I do not believe it has a hill a beans to do with the movie, Gibson's interpretation, or the history itself, It has to do with the reactionary ignorance of the masses. Some seeing this movie will walk away convinced the Jews killed Jesus. Some will make all the appropriate delineations. Others will question the accuracy of history. It is a movie. A movie on a contravercial topic. Jesus Christ.

No one here has seen this movie. Jewish groups all up in Arms have not yet seen this movie, but for an early draft on script that was stolen from set in Italy.

The uproar is based in preconceived notions. Without having seen this movie the various Jewish Groups are making an accurate call because they understand the preconceived notions within society at large. It is a viable concern. However, does this mean the movie should be banned, and will this hate really be directly related to the movie itself, or does this hate stand alone. Yet, interestingly, without having seen the movie they too are guilty of jumping to conclusions for the most part based in their own preconceived notions and isn't it a shame the uproar comes behind a movie that is endeared prophet a messiah to people of another faith. All should relax. It is a movie. It is not like Bush has called a crusade against the Jews for killing Christ based on intelligence from the OSP.

Does the Lukid speak for all of American Jewry? Do the action of the Pentagon speak for every single American? So how does several Jewish High Priest translate exactly to all the Jews during the last 15 days of Jesus' life? And how is it that within a Jewish Population comes this one Saxon martyr named Jesus Christ.

I must say this thread and the comments within it serves as a very good example of how preconceived notions do tend to get in the way of objective thought.

Anything can incite antiSemitism as it is hate and hate is the easiest thing in our human experience that can be incited. Love on the other hand is merely a concept which seems impossible to incite.

Another two cents in the thread I'll name THE PASSION.

[Jackie97]

28. I'll have to post more on this later.....

The thing is that Mel Gibson based this movie on information given from nuns centuries ago that are known for their blood libel against the Jews. This is like listening to somebody who says that Jews kill for Passover Bread.

[Wonder]

20. and too isn't it a shame (from another perspective)

this uproar comes behind a movie that is about an endeared prophet, a messiah to people of another faith. All should relax. It is a movie. It is not like Bush has called a crusade against the Jews for killing Christ based on intelligence from the OSP. And in order to rally the country against the Jews he has chosen Gibson's THE PASSION to do it, and has made it manditory and to be viewed regularly just after the nightly news.

[rini]

21. Passion

I am (if all the hype is true) upset that Gibson has not been historically accurate. The perpetuation of a historical untruth, especially one that encourages violence and hatred, is uncalled for. Still, how many thugs will actually pay to see a film acted in Aramaic and Latin without subtitles, or even with them is problamatic. BTW, Greek was the language used by Roman troops.

[The Stranger]

23. Waitoneminute. I thought the "Christian" Right Wing Fundamentalist

Imbeciles were all behind Sharon and Co. waiting for the Rapture and pouring billions into the mass Dispossession of the Palestinians from their homeland, the Last Crusade against the Infidel, the rebuilding of the Second Temple, and the return of Jesus (the massive final forced conversion of the Jews comes in the next book).

Could there now be trouble in paradise? (Pardon the pun.)

[IndianaGreen]

25. Christian fundamentalists are not a monolith (and neither are the others)

as you can see by their conflicting views they have on the "Rapture" and its timing.

BTW, the best way to understand the Book of Revelation is by reading the Book of Daniel, the former borrows a lot from the latter.

You also have to recognize that the ancient Prophets of the Bible never predicted the future. Think of them as the systems analysts of their time that would tell people that if one were to follow a certain path it would lead to one or more subsequent events. But the future was never set in stone, one could always change the future, as witnessed by Jonah in Nineveh. The role of the prophet was not to engage in soothsaying, which violated Jewish law, but to call people to recognize that their behavior and their society fell short of what was righteous.

I highly recommend you read Abraham Heschel's The Prophets, which is still in print after these many years.

On edit: deleted repeated word

[StandWatie]

29. oh, they are..

When the Christian Right and the usual Jewish Israeli PR groups teamed up and set upon a course of blatant reactionary, bigoted slurs against Islam I thought at the time it was like watching a Tom and Jerry episode where the they temporarily teamed up to beat on the dog.

It was the stupidest course of action I've ever seen since you can't whip Christians into a sectarian fury in only one direction, sooner or later the Christians were going to jump on the Jews and Jewish groups should have known that better than anyone but as long as there was some short term gain for Israel to be had by seizing on Islamaphobia that seems to be all that mattered.

[IndianaGreen]

27. BBC: Gibson film 'fuels hate mail' (August 13)

Last Updated: Wednesday, 13 August, 2003, 07:14 GMT 08:14 UK
Gibson film 'fuels hate mail'

A US rabbi has said Mel Gibson's controversial film about the death of Christ is already fuelling anti-Semitism, months before it is released.

Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder of the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center, said the center had already received dozens of hate letters and calls he said were prompted by advance screening of the Gibson-directed film The Passion.

Rabbi Hier's comments follow Tuesday's comments by Jewish group the Anti-Defamation League that Gibson's film was "dangerous" for portraying Jewish authorities and mobs as being behind the decision to crucify Jesus.

"Are there any manifestations of hate so far? The answer is an unequivocal yes," Rabbi Hier said. "We have had hate mail in the past ... but never in spurts like this."

Hier cited one writer who praised Hitler as "much kinder to the Jews than I would have been".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3146565.stm