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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-01-11 08:39 PM
Original message
Senators predict massive U.S. withdrawal from international organizations
As The Cable reported last month, the Obama administration is required by existing U.S. law to cut off funding for any international organization that grants the Palestinians full membership. Membership in UNESCO also grants the Palestinians membership in the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) and the United Nations Industrial Development Organization (UNIDO). The United States is not a member of UNIDO, but will be forced to stop contributing to WIPO.

But that's only the tip of the iceberg. The Palestinians could seek membership in more prominent international organizations, which could result in the United States defunding or even withdrawing from institutions such as the World Health Organization and the International Atomic Energy Agency. The AP reported today that the Palestinian Authority was examining seeking membership in 16 more U.N. organizations.

(Republican Senator Lindsey) Graham said he believes it is in the U.S. interest to actively participate in these organizations. And yet, he plans to introduce a Senate resolution to formally withdraw U.S. membership in UNESCO -- a more serious action than simply cutting off funds. He intends to do the same for any other international organizations the Palestinians succeed in joining.

Graham also said that Congress is poised to cut off U.S. funding for the Palestinian Authority (PA), which totaled $550 million in fiscal 2011, despite the fact that he still thinks financial support for the PA is a good idea.

"I don't think that's in our near-term or long-term interest, but that's what's going to happen, that's where this thing is headed," Graham said.

But isn't the United States just spiting itself by withdrawing from organizations in order to punish them for recognizing the Palestinians?

"Not really," Graham replied. "The world has to make a decision.... If the U.N. is going to be a body that buys into Palestinian statehood ... then they suffer. It's a decision they make."

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/11/01/senators_predict_massive_us_withdrawal_from_international_organizations
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-01-11 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dickhead.
This is how the republicans will now try to unsurp the presidential power in foreign affairs....they are going to try to run our foreign policy by controlling the purse strings. can you imagine how they'd scream if Democrats played politics with a Republican president's foreign policy by doing the same thing? Keep it up D-Bags....these actions play both ways.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-01-11 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Its fascinating in the same way as watching a car crash...
everything seems to happen in slow motion, you see the panels crumple, the occupants slump in their seats, the pieces of debris flip and spin in the air. If it weren't for the human interests at stake it would be a thing of beauty, an act of poetry in motion.

I remember a Chinese dissident artist did a piece in which he was photographed with a piece of silicone tubing stuck up his arse, and the other end in his mouth. He was commenting on the Chinese state, but I think the criticism could be better made of the US. I think it aptly summarises the American body politic today.

This whole Israel issue is only a small part of things, of course, but it is an excellent example of plutocracy in action. Politicians openly acknowledge that they are acting contrary to US interests, but that domestic political constraints are forcing their hand. Its compelling, in a perverse way, to imagine just how far the US will go, how far will they sail headwind into a gale with the mainsail unfurled. Surely at some stage, the tiller will yield, or the mast will snap. Meanwhile you can see the cracks appear, and hear the crazing of the timbers under the strain.

I have to say, I am glad I am not an American citizen. A burning house always looks better from the outside.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-01-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It's like some kind of wierd endgame afoot.
I've been a student of politics all of my life and I've never seen this Party so committed to it's ideology that its willing to destroy the country if they can't control it. They are bankrupt of any ideas to fix this country. All they want is the power to enforce their warped worldview. Republicans are well coordinated in the various states to actively reduce voter access to polls because they know they can't win without limiting true democracy. The core of this party is corrupt and clueless, but until approximately 50% of the voting population figures this out, things will not get better.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. There is only one party, the Property Party
and it has two wings, Republican and Democrat.
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holdencaufield Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-01-11 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Isn't that the point?
"they are going to try to run our foreign policy by controlling the purse strings"

Did I fall asleep in civics class? Or isn't this the entire point of the a tripartite government. Executive can make decisions, decisions must be funded by congress and pronounced legal by the legislative branch. That is how the US Constitution prevents too much power from falling into the hands of a single branch of government.

"The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elected, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny." -- James Madison
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Pssst....the totalitarian left isn't really for true representative democracy. n/t
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holdencaufield Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I have observed as much
They are for social conformity and endless class warfare
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I wage class warfare every day, before breakfast even.
On my morning constitutional, I walk right up to the richest guy in town and kick him in the nads. Because I am a hardcore totalitarian leftist communist stooge he more or less has to stand there and take it. Plus I wear flared trousers, thats how hardcore I am.

Then for the rest of the day I make everyone else wear flared trousers. Thats the social conformity part.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. why you dirty 99%er you
flared trousers just try I dare you :-)
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. The "totalitarian left" what an interesting statement care to tell us whom you mean ?
I've seen such statements on this site before but not quite in the same context as yours
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Those who could care less about civil/human rights within closed, totalitarian regimes...
Edited on Wed Nov-02-11 10:05 AM by shira
Both the hardcore Left and Right are like that.

WRT all issues I/P related, the totalitarian left could care less about Palestinian civil/human rights under Hamas and the PLO. Same WRT civil human rights of Egyptians, Syrians, Libyans, etc.. under their regimes. To criticize those regimes is racist/bigoted, etc.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. and of course the Palestinians are your first example of a totalitarian regime
and of course other countries where the dictators that Israel had grown quite comfortable with too and criticism of those so called "regimes" is not racist in fact if you look beyond this forum you'll find quite a bit of criticism of those regimes especially Syria
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. This is the I/P forum where totalitarian leftists rarely ever criticize Palestinian leadership
Edited on Wed Nov-02-11 12:13 PM by shira
I don't have to go out far away from this forum to see the very same depraved view WRT gross human rights abuses in Syria, Libya, or any other countries.

As Maryam Namazie writes about this totalitarian left....

It is an anti-colonial movement whose perspectives coincide with that of the ruling classes in the so-called Third World. This grouping is on the side of the colonies no matter what goes on there. And their understanding of the colonies is Eurocentric, patronising and even racist. In the world according to them, the people in these countries are one and the same with the regimes they are struggling against just as the Muslim community here is one and the same with reactionary Islamic organisations, Sharia councils, and parasitical imams. Which is why at Stop the War Coalition demonstrations, they carry banners saying We are all Hezbollah; at meetings they segregate men and women and urge unveiled women to veil out of solidarity and respect.

This type of politics denies universalism, sees rights as western, justifies the suppression of rights, freedoms and equality under the guise of respect for other cultures implying that people want to live the way they are forced to and imputing on innumerable people the most reactionary elements of culture and religion, which is that of the ruling class.

In this type of politics, the oppressor is victim and any criticism racist

http://maryamnamazie.blogspot.com/2009/10/pathetic-excuse-of-much-of-european.html

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. you are quite wrong Syria is getting quite a bit of criticism on the DU
along with other countries don't know where your looking but it is not DU, Hamas gets criticized quite a bit here on this forum and by both sides too, However I am thinking that Hamas is not really your concern here, It is the PLO/PA that you seem to desire criticism (delegitimiztion) of isn't it, Hamas is no challenge to Israel's colonization project at the moment, but the PLO/PA is isn't it? You would greatly desire to see them as the focus wouldn't you it seems?

now as to Maryam Namazie her blog is supposedly an 'atheist' blog but yet her criticism of religion centers on one religion-Islam , not the concept of religion or deities as most bonafide aetheist bloggers do, that along with her accompanying rants against 'Leftists' puts her in the class of right wing antiIslamists sort of a Pam Geller lite
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Not even close to the condemnation Israel gets for OCL, the Marmara, Lebanon 2006, etc...
1. As to Hamas, the far Left here rarely ever criticizes Hamas - which should be easier to do than criticizing the PA since they're worse than the PA. But the far Left here is pretty silent WRT Hamas.

2. The PA/PLO also deserves plenty of criticism. Abbas isn't condemning terror attacks lately. He sent the proud mother of 4 terrorists to the UN when the PA put in its application for membership. He just said that the Gilad Shalit kidnapping was a good thing. The PA promotes terrorist assholes like Samir Kuntar. Their incitement to terror and hatred is as bad as it always was and is not getting better. The PA will not allow Jews in a future Palestine and will STILL not allow refugees within W.Bank camps to become Palestinian citizens.

The far Left here ignores or denies the extreme rightwingery of both the PA/PLO and Hamas.

You don't find liberals here defending the Israeli far right, denying and ignoring all they do. But the Left more than tolerates the extreme rightwingery of Palestinian leadership.

3. Maryam Namazie is, as she admits, a Marxist/Communist, so try again.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. This made me laugh.

"You don't find liberals here defending the Israeli far right, denying and ignoring all they do."

No, you're quite right, you don't. But I'm surprised to hear you admit it.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. What's funny about it?
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 10:14 AM by shira
Do you think it's funny that Leftists here defend far rightwing Palestinian policy?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. But that is only the tip of the iceberg as next week SCOTUS will decide if the POTUS or Congress
dictates foreign policy it could be that the US under its first Black President will see a severe reduction in the powers of the Executive branch of government hmm what a legacy for all Americans

see more about this here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x370337
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. Sounds like "isolationism". I thought that was out of fashion. nt
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. ah but one is not isolated if 'someone else' is there with them n/t
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vminfla Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Nothing Isolationist about it, we are just cutting out the kids allowance
If we cannot put UNESCO in timeout, we cut their allowance. That's what you do with wayward children.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. What about the other kid's allowance?
when they happen to build settlements where they shouldn't - how should we treat that wayward child?
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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. with petting of the head and offering more candy? n/t
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Dick Dastardly Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. What about the other kid? You as well as many other supporters of Palestine
are under the delusion that there is some sort of equivilence in the US-Israel relationship and the US Palestinian relationship and or at least they should be treated the same. Most Americans support Israel and especially so over the Palestinians and dont consider Israel a wayward child. Unlike Palestine Israel is an ally and has close intelligence, military, industrial and economic ties.There is no equivilence in the relationship so why in the hell should they be treated the same way except on the issues of peace negotiations and the quartet.

We can fund anybody we want at anytime for any reason. Unless we are under some contractual obligation we can de-fund anybody we want at anytime. If we dont like something that we have been paying for we are under no obligation to continue to pay for it. If I am paying the monthly note for my kids car that does not obligate me to continue to pay it.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Do you honestly think that Israel is funded out of the great love
of Israel held by the American people? Bullshit. Israel gets $3 billion a year because it is a successful rent-seeker, just like all the other rent-seeking special interests that attach themselves to Uncle Sucker's sagging old teats. The average American is completely ignorant of the aid doled out to Israel, in the same way that they are ignorant of the fact that sugar costs 21 cents a pound in the US but only 7 cents everywhere else due to the lobbying of rich sugar croppers in Florida.

You don't have the choice of whether to fund Israel or not, the same way that you have no choice as to whether Michele Bachmann gets her $68,000 in agricultural subsidies each year. It was a business decision made in a room a thousand miles away from the prying eyes of peasants like you.


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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. +1. nt
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. +2 n/t
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. CNN poll from Spring 2011: American people support Israel way more than Palestinians...
Edited on Fri Nov-04-11 10:25 AM by shira
Americans sympathize more with Israelis than Palestinians by a 67 to 16 percent margin.

Sympathy with Israel is up slightly from 60 percent in 2009. At the same time, 65 percent of the public says the United States should not take either side in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Among the rest of the public, 35 percent say the U.S. should take Israels side while just 1 percent favors backing the Palestinians.


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/05/31/rel9e.pdf

========

As to annual funding that goes right back to American business, the USA saves tens of billions annually by not having to have bases, aircraft carriers, and troops in the mideast where the IDF already has all that under control, in keeping with American interests.

Try again Ace.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Complete rubbish, even by your standards...
"As to annual funding that goes right back to American business"{/B]

Pretty much any funding goes back to American business, since that funding is generally in US dollars and ultimately the only use for US dollars is purchasing American goods and services. That holds true whether you are giving US dollars to Israel, Tuvalu, or the local Chocolate Cake for Paedophiles Association.

"the USA saves tens of billions annually by not having to have bases, aircraft carriers, and troops in the mideast where the IDF already has all that under control"

Absolutely, imagine all the expense the US would be put to if it had to have bases, aircraft carriers and troops in the middle East. Its a bloody good job Israel is around to save the US from all that heavy lifting.

Honestly, why am I bothering? This steaming heap of wrong satirises itself.



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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Why should UNESCO be put in 'timeout'?
I don't get it. Yr acting as though UNESCO has done something wrong by adhering to a democratic process where all votes are of equal value, and that the US having a sulk because it's not getting its own way is something to be defended...
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vminfla Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Cause and Effect
US policy is clearly written. UNESCO was aware of the outcome of their future funding. UNESCO merely assumed that the US would ammend its policies and continue to fund them, like a wayward child that pouts and stomps its feet until they get what they want.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. That's pathetic. How about respecting democratic processes?
Why would anyone demand that the rest of the world do whatever the US says to do? That 'wayward child that pouts and stomps its feet until they get what they want' is a very apt description of the way the US behaves in the international community.
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vminfla Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Respecting the democratic process with despots and tyrants
You keep on inferring that the US is somehow some despotic tyrant at the UN. However, look at Syria and Zimbabwe and all the other despots and tyrants that voted for UNESCO. Why should the US fund the folly of tyrants?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. No, I've inferred the US is a childish bully...
Yr the one who started going on about despotic tyrants and tried to make excuses for the US acting like a chidish bully.

UNESCO is the 'folly of tyrants'? That's not a particularly progressive attitude to have...
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