Baird bares teeth in offering defence of Israel at U.N

[socialshockwave]

OTTAWA — Canada used its United Nations speaking slot Monday to lambaste opponents of Israel as no better than the appeasers who allowed fascism and communism to flourish before the Second World War.

Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird delivered Canada's views to the General Assembly in a speech that put meat on the bones of the Harper government's unflinching support of Israel.

"Just as fascism and communism were the great struggles of previous generations, terrorism is the great struggle of ours. And far too often, the Jewish state is on the front line of our struggle and its people the victims of terror," says a prepared text of Baird's remarks.

"Canada will not accept or stay silent while the Jewish state is attacked for defending its territory and its citizens. The Second World War taught us all the tragic price of 'going along' just to 'get along."'

Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20110927/john-baird-UN-speech-israel-110927/

[Owlet]

1. Hmm. That's some analogy (n/t)

[ixion]

2. wow.

Just wow. :wow:

The illogical statements of the worlds political glitterarti amazes me to no end.

[Gman]

3. Just wondering when was the last time Jews were the target of a terror attack

I can't think of any off hand from recent memory

[socialshockwave]

4. Every time Hamas fires rockets intentionally into civilian populated areas.

Just a thought.

[hack89]

7. Which simply shows how effective the security wall is

there were numerous deadly attacks in Israel before they built the wall.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

8. Rockets from Gaza, suicide bombers, pipelines blown up

Does that refresh your memory?

[Violet_Crumble]

5. Harper's RW government must be a pure embarrassment for sane Canadians n/t

[vminfla]

6. Finally! Some good news coming out of the UN

"Canada will not go along with a double standard that castigates some UN members for alleged failings while ignoring the notorious abuses of others,"


Good job Baird. It is long overdue that the incessant and unrelenting castigation of Israel stops at the same time that the UNRWA aids and abets terrorism.

[Violet_Crumble]

9. Mindless ranting by the RW Canadian government isn't something to be praised...

If he wants to talk about double standards, how about that of the US who complained constantly during the Cold War era of the Soviet Union abusing its veto power and then turning round and abusing it far more times itself. And look at the wording of the bit of the rant that appears to have impressed you, 'alleged failings'. Alleged? The UN has criticised Israel for its treatment of the Palestinians, and the illegal settlements. Is he so dense or blinded by his adoration of Israel that he thinks those things don't exist? Or maybe he thinks that the UN should turn a blind eye to those things, while only criticising countries that 'supporters' of Israel approve of?

Yr claim that UNRWA aids and abets terrorism is a complete falsehood.

[vminfla]

10. You do not remember the UNRWA ambulances for terrorists scandal?

Fact: Peter Hansen, commissioner-general of UNRWA, admits to having terrorists on his payroll.

Fact: UNRWA administered camps were known to have weapons factories.

Fact: Since 2001, at least 17 members of the UNRWA have been arrested for terrorist activities.

Fact: UNRWA failed to report these activities, in contravention of UN rules themselves.

Fact: UNRWA takes credit for establishing the arab curicula, which includes maps that have no references to Israel and have racist screed such as ""Treachery and disloyalty are character traits of the Jews".

[Violet_Crumble]

11. No, please enlighten me!

Let's run through every single one of yr rather incomplete and questionable 'facts'

1. What Peter Hansen actually said was this: 'Oh I am sure that there are Hamas members on the UNRWA payroll and I don't see that as a crime. Hamas as a political organization does not mean that every member is a militant and we do not do political vetting and exclude people from one persuasion as against another.

We demand of our staff, whatever their political persuasion is, that they behave in accordance with UN standards and norms for neutrality.'

Hansen later specified that he had been referring not to active Hamas members, but to Hamas sympathizers within UNRWA. In a letter to the Agency's major donors, he said he was attempting to be honest because UNRWA has over 8,200 employees in the Gaza Strip. Given the 30 to 40 percent support to Hamas in Gaza at the time, and UNRWA's workforce of 11,000 Palestinians, at least some Hamas sympathizers were likely to be among UNRWA's employees. The important thing, he wrote, was that UNRWA's strict rules and regulations ensured thatits staff remained impartial UN servants. But he was retired from United Nations service on March 31, 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Relief_and_Works_Agency_for_Palestine_Refugees_in_the_Near_East#Peter_Hansen

2. People in the camps are armed. Big fucking whoop. What do you expect UNRWA to do about it?

3. If they truly were terrorists, and not just a case of Israel slapping that label on people who haven't carried out acts of violence against civilians, then considering the situation UNRWA operate in, 17 in 10 years is a very low number and shows that UNRWA take their role seriously and that they insist their staff aren't terrorists...

4. I'm not sure whether or not they reported something or what they're supposed to have reported, nor what rule would have been contravened, but even if what you said was true, that's not aiding and abetting terrorists...

5. Completely untrue. 'arab curicula'? I'm pretty certain the various Arab states all take care of their own education systems. When it comes specifically to Palestinian textbooks, you'd be totally wrong. Read this:

'In 1998, two years before the Al-Aqsa intifada, US Congressman Peter Deutsch (D-FL) and other Congressmembers pressured the State Department to ask UNRWA to investigate evidence that Palestinian Authority school books used in UNRWA-run schools contained anti-Semitic statements. The allegations surfaced in reports compiled by the Centre for Monitoring the Impact of Peace, an Israeli-American NGO.
For historical reasons UNRWA schools followed the Jordanian curriculum in the West Bank and the Egyptian curriculum in the Gaza Strip and this practice continued under the Israeli control of those areas between 1967 and 1994. Since 1994 the Palestinian Authority has progressively been replacing the old Jordanian and Egyptian textbooks as new PA-produced textbooks become available. The last of the older books was phased out of UNRWA schools in the autumn of 2004.
In 1999 and 2000, Nathan Brown, Professor of Political Science at George Washington University, published a study on this subject.<15> Regarding the Palestinian Authority's new textbooks, he states: "The new books have removed the anti-Semitism present in the older books while they tell history from a Palestinian point of view, they do not seek to erase Israel, delegitimize it or replace it with the "State of Palestine"; each book contains a foreword describing the West Bank and Gaza as "the two parts of the homeland"; the maps show some awkwardness but do sometimes indicate the 1967 line and take some other measures to avoid indicating borders; in this respect they are actually more forthcoming than Israeli maps; the books avoid treating Israel at length but do indeed mention it by name; the new books must be seen as a tremendous improvement from a Jewish, Israeli, and humanitarian view; they do not compare unfavorably to the material my son was given as a fourth grade student in a school in Tel Aviv". Brown also described the research into Palestinian textbooks conducted by the Centre for Monitoring the Impact of Peace as "tendentious and highly misleading". However, in an exchange with CMIP Brown notes "my criticism that CMIP's work is 'tendentious and highly misleading' was made before CMIP issued its 2001 report and could hardly have referred specifically to it."<16>

In 2002, the United States Congress requested the United States Department of State to commission a reputable NGO to conduct a review of the new Palestinian curriculum. The Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information (IPCRI) was thereby commissioned by the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv and the US Consul General in Jerusalem to review the Palestinian Authority's textbooks. Its report was completed in March 2003 and delivered to the State Department for submission to Congress. Its executive summary states: "The overall orientation of the curriculum is peaceful despite the harsh and violent realities on the ground. It does not openly incite against Israel and the Jews. It does not openly incite hatred and violence. Religious and political tolerance is emphasized in a good number of textbooks and in multiple contexts." Its June 2004 follow-up report notes that "except for calls for resisting occupation and oppression, no signs were detected of outright promotion of hatred towards Israel, Judaism, or Zionism" and that "tolerance, as a concept, runs across the new textbooks". The report also stated that "textbooks revealed numerous instances that introduce and promote the universal and religious values and concepts of respect of other cultures, religions, and ethnic groups, peace, human rights, freedom of speech, justice, compassion, diversity, plurality, tolerance, respect of law, and environmental awareness". However, the IPCRI noted a number of deficiencies in the curriculum, stating "The practice of 'appropriating' sites, areas, localities, geographic regions, etc. inside the territory of the State of Israel as Palestine/Palestinian observed in our previous review, remains a feature of the newly published textbooks (4th and 9th Grade) laying substantive grounds to the contention that the Palestinian Authority did not in fact recognize Israel as the State of the Jewish people. <...> A good number show Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip as one geographic entity (without demarcation lines or differentiated colorings). Historically Palestinian cities (e.g., Akka, Yafa, Haifa, Safad, al-Lid, Ar-Ramla, Beer As-sabe’) are included in some maps that lump together the areas controlled by the PA with those inside the State of Israel. No map of the region bears the name of 'Israel' in its pre-1967 borders. In addition, Israeli towns with a predominantly Jewish population are not represented on these maps." The Summary also states that the curriculum asserts a historical Arab presence in the region, while ignoring any Jewish connection: "The Jewish connection to the region, in general, and the Holy Land, in particular, is virtually missing. This lack of reference is perceived as tantamount to a denial of such a connection, although no direct evidence is found for such a denial." It also notes that "terms and passages used to describe some historical events are sometimes offensive in nature and could be construed as reflecting hatred of and discrimination against Jews and Judaism."<17>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Relief_and_Works_Agency_for_Palestine_Refugees_in_the_Near_East#UNRWA_and_the_Palestinian_curriculum

Sorry, had to rely on Wiki rather than straight from the UNRWA site, as the site is down right now...

btw, a question. You appear to have a strong dislike to UNRWA. Just curious, but do you support the work they do or not? It's just that bringing it back to the subject of the RW Canadian govt you've been praising, in the same Wiki article there was a section on Canada cutting off its funding to UNRWA in 2010. Israel's response, while it doesn't surprise me, may come as a shock to you...

'In January 2010, the Government of Canada announced that it was redirecting aid previously earmarked to UNRWA "to specific projects in the Palestinian Authority that will ensure accountability and foster democracy in the PA." Victor Toews, the president of Canada's Treasury Board, stated, "Overall, Canada is not reducing the amount of money given to the PA, but it is now being redirected in accordance with Canadian values. This "will ensure accountability and foster democracy in the PA." Previously, Canada provided UNRWA with 11 percent of its budget at $10 million (Canadian) annually.<63><64> The decision came despite positive internal evaluations of the Agency by CIDA officials.<65> The Canadian decision put it very much at odds with the US and EU, which maintained or increased their levels of funding. Some suggested that the decision also cost Canada international support in its failed October 2010 effort to obtain a seat on the UN Security Council.<66>

Documents obtained from the Canadian International Development Agency revealed that even the government of Israel opposed the Canadian move, and had asked Ottawa to resume contributions to UNRWA's General Fund.<67>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Relief_and_Works_Agency_for_Palestine_Refugees_in_the_Near_East#Loss_of_Canadian_support

[vminfla]

12. 17 Terrorists is not 17 too many

Interesting claim. So you are stating that 17 terrorists working for one organization is not too many? 17 is just about the right number to hijack four jets and fly them into buildings. If anything, greater scrutiny should be paid to UNRWA and its sympathies to terrorist organizations.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. Have you got any idea how many people UNRWA employs in Palestine?

Both directly and indirectly? I still can't access their site to get exact figures, but it'd be safe to say it'd be in the thousands* in the period you singled out. 17 people out of thousands in ten years is a pretty damn good track record that shows that UNRWA stands by its demand that its employees not engage in violence.

So here's a FACT for you. Not one single one of those so-called 'facts' showed that UNRWA aids and abets terrorism...

My particular favourite one about UNRWA is the Terror Ambulance story of a few years back where the IDF ended up with egg on its face after releasing a video it claimed was of militants loading a Qassam onto an UNRWA ambulance, only to have it revealed that the missile was actually a stretcher.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=79031


* According to Wikipedia, UNRWA employs 11,305 Palestinians...

[parkia00]

14. Thank You!

For taking the time to debunk somebody's "facts" in a proper analytical manner. Although I believe it might not do anything. Like water off a duck's back. There seem to be a sudden suspicious surge of "new" DU members who simply jumps into the I/P Forum to put forth the same half baked accusations as before.

[Violet_Crumble]

16. No worries. It doesn't take much time at all to set the record straight...

UNRWA does invaluable work in sometimes very trying circumstances, and there's always some extra motivation on my part to correct those who falsely claim that UNRWA aids and abets terrorism

:hi:

[parkia00]

13. Man, that sure is a huge dump of rightwing bullcrap.

"UNRWA aids and abets terrorism" ??? Really? And I'm sure you add any group to that list if they even dare to peep a squeak that goes against the wills of righteous Israel. I've seen Amnesty International, Doctors Without Frontiers labeled as anti-Semitic as well by it's trumpeting fanatical followers right here on DU. They who will sing on high to drown down, any other voices they deem unacceptable. Harper basically said that people who do not support Israel and whatever it does are communist and fascist. Only a true believer to Israel's cause will be blind enough to believe that. People like that gives Israel a bad reputation.

Israel is slowly isolating itself more and more through it's own actions. Real friends of Israel are being pushed aside and instead "yes men" are taking their place. People/entities/countries who will agree to anything Israel wants are the new "friends".

He talks about Fascism but fails to understand how the road to Fascism starts. The first requirement is to have an army of unquestioning followers in all parts of the government and economy to carry, push or threaten others to their cause. Second is to have an enemy to project the fear, hatred and anger towards. These two requirement are already filled. Now all it takes is for Israel to create a charismatic leader that can unite all the different factions under one wing. When this happens, it can go either way. Bad or good. Depends on the leader and their vision for a new Israel. Fascism always has a symbol. It was a swastika before. It can also be a Star of David if Israel isn't careful.