Suddenly, the Israel lobby discovers a genocide

[shaayecanaan]

"I once tried to blow the whistle on the Israel lobby's denial of the Armenian Genocide -- and it cost me my job"

"Some of the most powerful leaders in the American Jewish community have stepped forward in recent days to acknowledge the 1915 Armenian Genocide at the hands of Ottoman Turkey.

On the surface, this would seem unremarkable. As victims of the Holocaust, Jews might be expected to stand beside the Armenians and their tragedy. After all, the massacres and death marches across Anatolia during the fog of World War I became a model for Hitler himself.

But this sudden embrace of the Armenian Genocide actually marks a shameless turnaround for the major American Jewish organizations. For decades, they have helped Turkey cover up its murderous past. Each year, the Israel lobby in the U.S. has played a quiet but pivotal role in pressuring Congress, the State Department and successive presidents to defeat simple congressional resolutions commemorating the 1.5 million Armenian victims.

Genocide denial is not a pretty thing, they now concede, but they did it for Israel. They did it out of gratitude for Turkey being Israel’s one and only Muslim ally."

(snip)

I tracked down Yair Auron, the professor at the Open University of Israel who had authored the seminal 2003 book “The Banality of Denial: Israel and the Armenian Genocide.”

He had written it out of shame, he said. "Denial of the Armenian Genocide in the Jewish Diaspora is closely connected to the policy of denial in Israel. This is nothing less than a betrayal of the moral legacy of the Holocaust."

Then I found my way to the equivocators and deniers who sat at the helms of the major American Jewish organizations. None was more blunt than Abraham Foxman, the head of the Anti-Defamation League in New York. The Armenian Genocide had become his own convenient cudgel to keep Turkey in line.

Foxman had just returned from a meeting with Turkish military and government leaders to discuss pressuring Congress, the State Department and President Bush to turn back the genocide resolution once again.

"Our focus is Israel," he explained. "If helping Turkey helps Israel, then that’s what we’re in the business of doing."

But such a bottom line would seem an uncomfortable place for a Jewish leader to be when the question was genocide.

"Was it genocide?" he said. "It was wartime. Things get messy."

more:-

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/06/16/israel_lobby_genocide_armenia

[Hydra]

1. *laughs*

Gotta love a coalition of the willing...by blackmail. Turkey sends Gaza aid and votes no on sanctions, and *pop*

[azurnoir]

2. Lol should we even try to "act surprised" n/t

[shaayecanaan]

4. Coup de grace

Foxman: "You’re not suggesting that an Armenian Genocide is the same as the Holocaust, are you?"

I tried to draw the parallels that the scholars had drawn, but Foxman saw it as an affront. The oneness of the Holocaust was being debased by Armenians looking for a piggyback ride.

"Are you Armenian?" he finally asked.

Honestly, what a sack of shit.

[Ken Burch]

6. Foxman apparently doesn't know

that Hitler got his idea from the fact that the Turks committed genocide against the Armenians and NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

At some point, "pro-Israel" people will HAVE to admit that

a)The Holocaust was a crime with UNIVERSALIST implications;

b)There were other acts in history(the massacre of 10 million Congolese by the Belgians, the slaughter of Native Americans by waves of colonial intruders, etc)that were as bad as the Holocaust;

c)The only true way to honor the victims of Hitler is to work for a whole world without persecution, exploitation, greed and war. Taking the side of one nationalist movement against the other in a land dispute does not honor those who perished in the camps at all.

[HankyDubs]

3. Sudden consicence

And yet, these disgraceful pigs will continue to use the murder of my ancestors as a justification for any crime they perpetrate.

Israel is a schande to all Jews, dishonoring the memory of our people and their sacrifices.

[Ken Burch]

7. For those who don't know Yiddish

"Schande" means "shame, disgrace".

[Mosby]

11. shande is the usual german spelling

in yiddish it's usually spelled shanda.

http://www.sbjf.org/sbjco/schmaltz/yiddish_phrases.htm

[Ken Burch]

12. OK, I stand corrected on the spelling

I was going on the spelling used in the post I was responding to.

Other than that, though, what response did you have to the post in question?

You're not going to argue that that poster shouldn't see the Occupation as a disgrace and as a betrayal of the principals of the Jewish tradition, are you?

[FBI_Un_Sub]

8. Like

Yes, things are bad and the German people (or Palestinian people or British people or American people or the Liberals, etc. ) don't care what happens to us - but we should not become like them. We are Jews and we must maintain our traditions of non-violence and cooperation. We must be a beacon unto the world by our non-violent actions. If we resist it will be that much worse for us. It will be difficult but the war will end some day and this will all be over and things will be normal again - and we will be able to say that we were true to our Jewish identity.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

13. That's a slander on Hankydubs.

And the use of the term "kapo" should be considered unacceptable in this forum.

For those who don't know, the term "kapo" applied to those who were sent to the camps and then became thugs in the service of the Nazis while there. The actual kapos were despicable. Nothing in the posts of any Jewish poster who criticizes Israel can EVER fairly be likened to a Jew who collaborates with Nazi camp guards, and you should be ashamed of yourself for saying such a thing to a person who did nothing, nothing at all, that could possibly warrant such a slur. Criticizing Israeli security policy has NEVER been the same as supporting the extinction of Jews. Neither is anti-Zionism, in and of itself.

Nothing Hankydubs said in that post gives aid and comfort to Nazis or antisemites, and Zionism is not the alpha and omega of Judaism. It's just one part of it, a part that can be supported or not supported without calling a person's Judaism or loyalty to other Jews into question.

Can you ever respond to a post in this forum with anything OTHER than abuse?

[Jim Sagle]

14. Does this forum ever contain anything warranting a substantive reply?

[Ken Burch]

15. Yes. There are actually a lot of very thoughtful posters on BOTH sides of the issue.

And if you feel it doesn't, you could just stay away.

Why don't you just avoid I/P if you can't give any response other than abuse to anything?

Nobody forces you to read these threads.

And it's not as if you actually succeed in discrediting anything you disagree with by throwing verbal cowpies at it.

If you really cared about preserving Israel, you would be joining the calls to end the Occupation and the Siege. You'd call for an end to collective punishment of Palestinians, and you'd support negotiations. You do Israel no good by backing its worst government ever in the worse policy choices in Israeli history. At the moment, Israel is embarrassing every Jewish person on the planet.

Now apologize to Hankydubs. He's not a kapo and you had no right to slander him that way.

All he is is a person who disagrees with you.

[Chulanowa]

5. Now they need to realize the reality of the Porajmos and Nakba, too

Fuckers would probably deny the American Genocide if they ever bothered to give it any thought.

[Jefferson23]

9. How convenient. n/t