Threat of the 'thought police' alarms Israel's Arab minority

[IndianaGreen]

Threat of the 'thought police' alarms Israel's Arab minority

Freedom to oppose Israel's right to exist among acts that right-wing politicians are attempting to outlaw

By Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem

Saturday, 30 May 2009

Israeli Arab leaders have called an emergency meeting today to discuss their growing alarm over a series of "racist and fascist" bills being promoted by right-wing members of the country's parliament. One of the bills has already brought fierce accusations from two prominent Jewish Knesset members that its backers are trying to create a "thought police" and "punish people for talking".

The Higher Arab Monitoring Committee – the main umbrella body of Arab political and civic leaders in Israel – cited special concern over another bill which would outlaw the commemoration of the Nakba or catastrophe on Israel's Independence Day. While Israel's Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948 is celebrated annually as the foundation of the state, Palestinians in Israel, Gaza, the West Bank and in refugee camps abroad mark the expulsion and flight of some 700,000 Arabs during the war of that year.

But the Committee is also protesting at another bill, which was given its first reading in the Knesset this week, that would make it a crime to negate Israel's right to exist as a "Jewish and democratic state".

It was during a heated debate on that bill last Wednesday that Haim Oron, leader of the left-wing Meretz party, declared: "Have you lost all faith in Israel as a Jewish and democratic state? This crazy government, what on earth are you doing? A thought police? Have you all lost it?" And Roni Bar-On, who was the centrist Kadima finance minister in the last government, asked the promoters: "You want to punish people for talking? Soon, will you want to punish for thoughts?"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/threat-of-the-thought-police-alarms-israels-arab-minority-1693157.html

[bemildred]

1. Well, apparently, desperate times call for a police state.

If you are going to outlaw thinking certain things, you are going to wind up with secret police monitoring everybody and hotlines to report "lawbreakers" and witch hunts, and so it goes. I thought the whole idea of free and democratic politics was that you didn't have to like the government.

[Taitertots]

2. Israel should allow

People to openly advocate its destruction?

Freedom of speech has limits. Destruction of the state is not protected speech here, and I don't expect it should be there.

[Douglas Carpenter]

3. these laws would make it criminal to argue that Israel should be a state for all of its citizens

and should define itself as such rather than specifically, a Jewish state. Even if one completely disagrees with the argument - I'm quite certain that in any democracy advocating complete ethnic/religious equality in all aspects of society and government policy is allowed.

In a rare point of apparent agreement with the poster, Behind the Aegis, he posted an excellent editorial from Haaretz:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x276511

"Netanyahu must rein in Lieberman's racist proposals

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1089216.html

Three legislative initiatives are on the docket. One mandates a three-year prison sentence for anyone who observes what the Palestinians call the Nakba - the events of 1948. This bill was approved by Ministerial Committee for Legislation. The second dictates one year in prison for anyone who expresses in writing "a statement that denies the existence of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state." This bill passed a preliminary reading in the Knesset. Finally, there is a proposal to require anyone who receives Israeli citizenship to sign a loyalty oath and perform military service, or some form of public service. This draft law will be submitted today to the Ministerial Committee for Legislation.

The sanitized language in these bills cannot conceal their true objective: the institutionalization and deepening of discrimination against Arab citizens. They stain Israeli democracy, exacerbate the rifts in society and intensify the sense of ostracism and oppression of the Arab community in its relations with the state. These bills highlight Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's irresponsibility in putting law enforcement and legislation in the hands of Avigdor Lieberman, who is using the system to further his discredited ideology. "

[LeftishBrit]

4. It's certainly protected speech in most democracies...

In the UK, there are plenty of folk songs and films based on the idea that the UK should not exist as such, and that the Scots, or Irish, or Welsh should be independent. Anarchists used to put up slogans, "Smash the State". Nobody gets punished for this sort of thing. If someone explicitly advocates, with specific instructions, planting a bomb or otherwise committing a violent terrorist attack against the government it is different; but advocating the destruction of the state as such definitely comes under free speech here, as in most democracies.

[BunkerHill24]

5. Once again Israel shows that they are an Apartheid State

All the signs of Apartheid state are already there, and for those who don't see it or are blind from reality on the ground are now repeating the same Apartheid mistake that existed and had gone far too long before white South Africans realized that you can't oppress, suppress, crush come down on or keep down an entire population.

[henank]

6. Exaggerate much?

I hope you take back that assertion forthwith.

[BunkerHill24]

7. Gee! My thinking on the issue remains the same

The "Israeli ministerial legislative committee" can go and fuck themselves....Heck when was the last time Israeli army implemented anything Israel's supreme court ruled on the inhuman treatment of the Palestinians? So don't give me a link of an article from Haaretz that talk of what the "The ministerial legislative committee" AGREED OR DISAGREED....instead talk to me about the situation on the ground.

[henank]

10. The situation on the ground that is so precious to you

is that the Ministerial Legislative Committee - of which you are so utterly disdainful - has rejected the disgusting proposal by Yisrael Beitenu to impose a loyalty oath. I would have thought you would be overjoyed. It would seem though that anything Israel does is wrong.

Also, what you write about the Israeli army, the supreme court etc. is totally irrelevant to the subject matter at hand. As the poster Sezu says, one mustn't confuse you with facts.

[Sezu]

8. Don't confuse him with facts. n/t

[BunkerHill24]

9. Right you are!