Sharon to push Bush for Pollard pardon during U.S. visit

[IndianaGreen]

Bottom line: Release Pollard or there is no peace agreement with Palestinians.

I guess the Palestinians could raise the ante by demanding the release of Sirhan Sirhan. Let each get their criminals!

Last Update: 28/07/2003 06:52
Sharon to push Bush for Pollard pardon during U.S. visit
By Gideon Alon, Haaretz Correspondent

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon will use his meeting at the White House Monday to present U.S. President George W. Bush with a petition signed by 112 Knesset members, calling for the release of convicted spy Jonathan Pollard.

MK Michael Eitam (Likud), who heads the Pollard lobby in the Knesset and initiated the petition, said Sunday that at a time when the United States is asking Israel to release terrorists who pose a security threat to Israel, the U.S. should consider a good-will gesture to Israel by releasing Pollard, who has been behind bars for the past 17 years.

The Knesset was presented Sunday with a private member's bill submitted by MK Gilad Erdan (Likud) linking the approval of any diplomatic agreement with the Palestinian Authority to the release of Pollard.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/322811.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mmm]

2. I say: NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!

And extra NO!

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jim Sagle]

4. This is the second time you've posted that lie.

Que sera, sarrha.

[Forkboy]

8. I'd be leery of any story

from a site with the words ORFICTION? right in the name.

[Darranar]

10. Ih those were really Mossad agents

and all the accounts of the filming were true(neither of which I believe) they could have been wayward agents. It is evident that the Israelis knew of a terrorist plan against the USA. In fact, they warned the US. Bush ignored them.

[JackSwift]

5. No, never

This man was a traitor to his country and should serve out his whole sentence like any other criminal.

[IndianaGreen]

6. Depends on what the definition of "his" country is.

If Pollard saw himself as an Israeli first, and an American second, then he would not be a traitor in his own mind.

My opinion of Pollard is in flux right now. While I did see him as a traitor as late as last year, now I am asking myself what sort of person could be considered a traitor if the "treason" was against the most evil empire the world has seen since the Third Reich.

Was Klaus Fuchs a traitor for passing atomic secrets to the Soviet Union? Let's reframe the question. If the development of the atomic bomb, which originally was prompted by fears of Nazi world conquest, was now intended to be used as blackmail to keep the world in grasps of the capitalist, would that change the equation? Was Fuchs in fact a hero by preventing one nation to have a monopoly on such power?

Forgetting all of the Cold War propaganda by which we were indoctrinated since we were kids, the US was the only nation to ever use nuclear weapons. The US was the nation that had as its national policy the use of nuclear weapons to obliterate all life on this planet. The US is the only nation to say openly that it will use nuclear weapons preemptively against any nation that it deems a threat now, or in the future.

Would it be treason to disseminate information to other countries that would protect them from such insanity as Bush's preemptive war? Or would it be the noblest of all acts of human justice?

[bemildred]

11. "Treason", like "terrorism" is much in the eye of

the beholder. One could say the same of now discarded epithets
like "blasphemer" and "apostate". But getting Pollard
freed does not seem like the most urgent issue on Mr. Sharon's plate
at this time, so it is interesting that they want public attention
focused on that issue. Perhaps an attempt to suck up to the Israeli
right to find off criticism if he is required to make "painful
concessions". There was this bit this morning:

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/03281905.htm

OTOH "spy" is pretty clear, so I don't think he's getting out.
I might be willing to trade him for Vanunu.

[Wonder]

14. "If the development of the atomic bomb,

which originally was prompted by fears of Nazi world conquest"

Just aside I find it interesting than that the US waited to test it instead on the Japanese, when in fact and in comparison, German military might certainly did pose more of a world threat. It seems to me once more that Saxon racism won out over reason.

As to the potential threat of it's use now preemptively. Just after 9/11 there was a CNN interview with Henry Kissinger who marbled his way behind much cloaked and coded use of language. However, at one point in the interview he came out and stated quite clearly for those determine to read between the lines, that yes once it was established who was at the bottom of this attack, like Pearl Harbor the use of the bomb would be considered.

snip
BROWN: And Mr. Secretary, we heard -- and I am not sure you were able to -- but a few moments ago, Chris Dodd, Senator Dodd of Connecticut, compared this to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Can you give me any historical context for what has taken place today, or are we a bit too close to it all to understand it yet?

KISSINGER: Well, the attack was -- I guess it was -- it was certainly the first attack from across the seas on the territory of the United States, but it was not yet the mainland. And I agree with Senator Dodd, this is comparable to an attack like Pearl Harbor, and we must have the same response. And the people who did it must have the same as the people who attacked Pearl Harbor.

end snip

While I realize this transcript is old news by now, whomever "those people" may be. His suggestion and/or implication seems quite clear to me.

http://www.commemoratewtc.com/transcripts/tr-13-55.php

You pose interesting questions though?

[Wonder]

7. What ANOTHER CONTINGENCY

!

[vierundzwanzig]

12. I would agree

that this is yet another maneuver in delaying negotiations but it is more.

Although I see myself firmly entrenched in the Palestinian camp I somewhat enjoy Sharon giving us a dose of his medicine.

Pollards incarceration is solely symbolic. He poses no threat to the U.S.. We should not hesitate for a second if that furthers the peace process. Unfortunately this opinion will not be shared by many Americans, especially the extreme right wing that has supported the Arab world *against* a Jewish world, merely for reasons of bigotry.

This is a very smart move, driving a wedge between the Arab support and the anti-Jewish agenda.

However, on the bottom line I trust Washington will manage to bury it (or add it to the arsenal in the closet).

[Wonder]

13. I would agree with you completely

if I did not also believe the US has given Sharon too much carte blanche, but for a couple of slaps on his wrist, an almost blank check, and the virtual go ahead to continue on business as usual.

IF on the other hand, Bush took this opportunity to DEMAND Sharon stops screwing around and dismantles those outposts and comes to the negotiating table POST HASTE, that would be another story. Instead it seems Bush is merely putty in the hands of Sharon who IMHO has been give way way way too much latitude here, for someone who is obviously been allowed to provide only lipservice to a peace process that is as much of a scam as Oslo was.

Your point is logical, unfortunately I fear logic is not the order of the day and Bush is brokering more so for Israeli Security (as in many ways so did Clinton) and not because he necessarily has any real sympathy with the Palestinian cause.

It is a tent show. Without any US contingencies on the release of Pollard if they did once more bend over for Sharon, I would be greatly miffed to say the least. With Wolfy calling many of the shots, I would be surprised if this was negotiated in anyway which will facilitate a genuine peace process. Sharon continues to stall and just play a waiting game which if weighed against his history may very well work in his favor.

[Darranar]

20. I agree...

completely. No release for Pollard unless Sharon pledges to move forward the peace process without hesitation.

[StandWatie]

28. yeah, but..

I know this seems small in the big scheme of things but you are dealing with deep negotiations here.

When you start mediating and there is some question of impartiality (and no way in hell would the US be considered to be a mediator here in the private sector, this only works because the Chimp can blow up the planet) but given much lesser obvious bias the mediator would have something approaching a professional obligation to kowtow to the side that was misrepresented in mediation even if it only amounted to deferring to the slighted at every moment of opportunity to ask "Is what he is saying OK?" "Is that true?" "Can we work on this point or is it a deal-breaker" and from what I've seen Abbas would eat every bit of it up like the nothing he is.

The thing is though, you have Israel instead making a bid at impuning the impartiality of the mediator, this is a shot across the bow to let people know (especially domestically) that the Likud's fanciful version of the modern day Dreyfus is part of the struggle against a still mean, anti-semetic, West.

It's a bad sign all the way around.

[Darranar]

29. The point is...

Pollard must not be a threat to the peace process. He is no threat to the US. If Sharon demands him to continue on with the peace process, by all means give him up! But if you do you must force Sharon to move forward with the peace process, instead of this dodging attitude that he has now.

[Booberdawg]

9. NO pardon for Pollard!!

And NO MORE sucking up to Sharon

[Gimel]

15. Free Pollard

Read the facts of the case:
http://www.jonathanpollard.org/facts.htm

Jonathan Pollard is the only person in the history of the United States to receive a life sentence for spying for an American ally.
On November 21, 2002, Pollard entered the 18th year of his life sentence, with no end in sight.
The maximum sentence today for such an offence is 10 years.
The median sentence for this offence is 2 to 4 years.
http://www.jonathanpollard.org/sentences.htm

[Wonder]

16. Free Mordechi Vannu

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/Opinion.asp?ArticleID=93711

Actually this might be LBN googles says it was released 14 hours ago.

[Gimel]

17. Free Azam Azam

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/980626/1998062627.html

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/970929/1997092948.html

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=322758&sw=Azam+Azam

[Wonder]

18. and round and round it goes

FREE Palestinian Political Prisoners!! Do you see how easy it is to continue to cloud the issue and impede genuine negotiations toward an ACTUAL process.

Ah yes let the games continue. Many know it for the stalling ruse it is.

[Gimel]

24. About 500

are being freed. Let's have some reciprocity.

[jos]

19. A deal can be worked out

Free Pollard in return for the Israelis withdrawing from the west bank!

[Gimel]

25. sounds good.

We hope you keep your end of the bargain.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

26. who's we?

?

[Gimel]

27. Who are

You? We is whomever agrees. There are many here in Israel, more than half the electorate, who favor complete withdrawal from the West Bank. It's already happening under the Road Map plan. It is included in every peace proposal, but that includes Palestinian cessation of terror, dismantling the terror groups.

So when this happens, "you" will free Pollard? Nice going.

[Wonder]

21. Israel at a Loss ( man it is like time has stood still)

"Anyone acquainted with Israel's history since 1948 will be aware that its leaders have always arrogated to themselves the right to intervene unilaterally in the affairs of other countries. This has been true not only with Israel's neighbors, but also for countries like the United States and Italy, friends and even allies of the Jewish state. The Pollard case of recent memory apparently did immeasurable harm to American security, so much so that even the repeated appeals to the United States by Israeli prime ministers (Rabin, Peres, Netanyahu, most recent) have been turned down. Mordechai Vanunu was kidnapped off the streets of Rome.

--- Edward Said, Chapter 30, Israel at a Loss (pp 200-204: The End of the Peace Process: Oslo and After

Me thinks time has just stood still. The US should hold on to Pollard or not let go of him until Sharon is made accountable for really dismantling these settlements with no back peddling, and even then I waver, and concession to Israel seems more to me like a loss. Sharon I would not trust for a second.

[StandWatie]

22. ah, the red herring gambit..

A damn clumsy one to.

If it means a concession I'd tell them to take the little prick but see, I'd actually be really negotiating.

When you don't have an impartial mediator what you get is the US playing good cop to Israel's bad cop with the Palestinian negotiator saying, "You know those prisoners? We had to let Israel keep them and shelve dismantling settlements to a future date because they are just breaking our balls with this Pollard guy".

[The Stranger]

23. So widely non-reported in the U.S. media . . .

But maybe Pollard just made a simple mistake, right?