Ending the West's Proxy War Against Israel

[Vegasaurus]

As the world decries Israel's attempt to defend itself from the rocket attacks coming from Gaza, consider this: When Hamas routed Fatah in Gaza in 2007, it cost nearly 350 lives and 1,000 wounded. Fatah's surrender brought only a temporary stop to the type of violence and bloodshed that are commonly seen in lands where at least 30% of the male population is in the 15-to-29 age bracket.

In such "youth bulge" countries, young men tend to eliminate each other or get killed in aggressive wars until a balance is reached between their ambitions and the number of acceptable positions available in their society. In Arab nations such as Lebanon (150,000 dead in the civil war between 1975 and 1990) or Algeria (200,000 dead in the Islamists' war against their own people between 1999 and 2006), the slaughter abated only when the fertility rates in these countries fell from seven children per woman to fewer than two. The warring stopped because no more warriors were being born.

And so the killing continues. In 2005, when Israel was still an occupying force, Gaza lost more young men to gang fights and crime than in its war against the "Zionist enemy." Despite the media's obsession with the Mideast conflict, it has cost many fewer lives than the youth bulges in West Africa, Lebanon or Algeria. In the six decades since Israel's founding, "only" some 62,000 people (40,000 Arabs, 22,000 Jews) have been killed in all the Israeli-Arab wars and Palestinian terror attacks. During that same time, some 11 million Muslims have been killed in wars and terror attacks -- mostly at the hands of other Muslims.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123171179743471961.html

And yet, no one much cares about those 11 million Muslims, that have been killed by OTHER MUSLIMS.

The world is too busy hating JEWS and worrying about the 40,000 Arabs that have been killed in 60 years.

[EFerrari]

1. Even the phrase "the youth bulge" demonstrates how much this darling

of the right wing nuttery values human life.

lol

[Vegasaurus]

2. Do you show the same value of human life for the 11 million dead Muslims

killed by each other, or only the 40,000 dead Arabs (compared to 22,000 dead Jews) in 60 years of Israel's existence>

I would say the MUSLIMS are doing a better job of genocide on each other than Israel is.

Israel really has a lot of work to do, if it would like to value human life as much as these Muslim groups.

[EFerrari]

3. I forgot to add, and you show the same disrespect for human life that he does.

[Vegasaurus]

5. On the contrary

I think the world should stand up to 11 million dead Muslims.

Who is speaking up for them?

[EFerrari]

6. By the same logic, Israel is reprehensible for killing hundreds of people

in response to 15 deaths in eight years.

You are quantifying suffering. Shame on you.

[Vegasaurus]

9. I am against the suffering

but also against hypocrisy.

No one has held rallies against the Muslim on Muslim violence which has resulted in 11 million deaths.

Either you care about human suffering, or you don't.

Clearly, some people are selective in their interest in human suffering, and there's the hypocrisy.

[EFerrari]

12. Have you fact checked that disgusting claim? I think not. n/t

[Vegasaurus]

14. Support your claim then with evidence

that there have been rallies and protests decrying Hamas murdering Fatah members in the coup, or the Lebanese army murdering Palestinian militants in the refugee camp, or suicide bombers in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. killing each other.

[shaayecanaan]

16. Compared to the Arab-Israeli conflict, about ten times as many Israelis die in traffic accidents...

Standards of traffic safety in Israel are particularly bad:-

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/traffic.html

According to experts, Israel could probably cut down on its road death toll substantially by making modest improvements to enforcement of traffic laws. But that does not appear to be a priority at this point in time.

Do you show value the lives of those who die in traffic accidents as much as those that die at the hands of Arabs? Probably not, for the same reason that Americans mourn the 3500 people who died at the hands of Arabs on September 11 2001, but not the 20 000 people who are murdered at the hands of their fellow American citizens each year.

The hypocrisy is as much yours as it is anyone else's.

[bemildred]

17. Shhhhhh .....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7788028.stm

[Vegasaurus]

18. You might be right

but I was never one in favor of going after Iraq for the death of 3500 Americans.

Just like I don't think pounding Gaza is going to end terrorism perpetrated by nihilists who show no care or compassion for other human beings, including their own citizens.

But I find the hypocrisy about the Gazan deaths really interesting.

As upsetting as a single death of an innocent is, no one decries the suicide bomber killing children in a market in Baghdad.

Why don't we see nonstop photographs/video of dead women and children from all of the suicide bombings of Muslim on Muslims?

I think there should be equal footage of those dead and maimed children.

Because if an Arab child's life is worthwhile, and I think we all agree it is, then people should be just as upset when he/she is killed by another Arab as a Jew.

But that isn't what we see, is it?

[shaayecanaan]

19. Re:

Because if an Arab child's life is worthwhile, and I think we all agree it is, then people should be just as upset when he/she is killed by another Arab as a Jew.

But that isn't what we see, is it?

Yes, but equally, if a child's life is worthwhile, then people should be just as upset if that child dies of leukemia or in a traffic accident.

This is not the case. You, just as much as anyone else here, gravitate to those instances of death and destruction which fit your particular worldview and which gratify your own perception of Arabs.

[Vegasaurus]

21. We're talking moral outrage about MURDER

not death by traffic accident or illness.

Please do keep up.

If you are morally outraged by these deaths of Arab children by the murderous Israeli army, are you equally outraged by the murders of Arab/Muslim children by suicide bombers in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Mumbai?

I haven't seen anyone get at all upset about these murders.

And there are 100 or 1000 times as many.

The world seems not to care if Arab/Muslim children are murdered by other Arabs/Muslims.

How sad and pathetic.

[Vegasaurus]

22. Bumping for Shaay

because I want to know if he feels compassion for all the murdered Arab/Muslim children, at the hands of other Arab/Muslims, or just get outraged when Jews do the killing.

[bemildred]

4. What a sweetheart this guy is.

Mr. Heinsohn heads the Raphael Lemkin Institute at the University of Bremen, Europe's first institute devoted to comparative genocide research.

[EFerrari]

7. Really -- what a guy!

You can find his work on many right wing fascist websites. I looked and am now sorry that I did.

[Vegasaurus]

10. Look at the facts, and just the facts.

11 million muslims have violently killed each other, and no one bats an eye.

But when Jews are involved?

Everyone is having a breakdown.

[EFerrari]

11. If you don't see what a ridiculous statement that is, I can't help you. n/t

[Vegasaurus]

13. Either people care about human suffering and death or they don't

clearly you don't.

[bemildred]

15. "extreme demographic armament"

This guy treads right on the edge.

The ultra-orthodox in Israel also have a very high birth rate, and for similar reasons.

[HeraldSquare212]

8. Several hundred thousand Americans died in car accidents in six decades

but the world is too busy hating JEWS to do anything about it!

[LeftishBrit]

20. I think both Vegasaurus and Shayecanaan are right..

(not a post heading you'll see often, I realize!)

It is true:

that people tend to show more concern when Arabs are killed by Jews than by other Arabs

that people are aware that Israelis are in danger of death from war or terrorism, but not of the horrific road casualty rates (about 30,000 killed on the roads since 1948, compared with 24,000 killed in wars during the same period)

that people are far more aware of American deaths in terrorist attacks than of the number who are murdered, or die from lack of health care

that most British people will still be sadly aware that 52 people were murdered by terrorists in the July bombing of 2005, but are not nearly so likely to be aware that about 4000 British people commit suicide every year (and many of these deaths could be prevented with better mental health care)


I think that it's all part of the greater awareness of murder and violence between groups than of murder and violence within a group, or of preventable deaths that do not involve murder. Part of it is a generally greater sensitivity to the crimes of 'foreigners' and 'outsiders'; part of it is what is dramatic and likely to be reported in the media. (E.g. more people are afraid of flying than of driving, though cars are more dangerous - but plane accidents kill more people at the same time, so are more likely to be reported.)